Andrew Luck Is Hitting His Head Against The Table Right Now...

[GoColts8818]

I put absolutely no stock in what Irsay and Polian say before the draft. It's all about driving up the value of the pick. Now, if they decide that Luck is the next coming of Manning, they'll draft him. If they have reservations, they'll trade the pick. Polian is extremely secretive and when you hear public statements from him about his intentions, you have to take them with a huge grain of salt.

So says someone who just doesn't want to believe what they are saying. Irsay has a history of following threw on his word and being very honest. I see no reason why he would just start lying now. Polian has never come out and said for sure they will take Luck but he hasn't exactly backed it away from it either. Combine that with Irsay's track record of talking to the media and him saying they would take a good young QB if one happens to be there regardless of Manning's health and it's easy to see why people think the Colts are going to take Luck. You can live under your rock if you wish but the writting is on the wall.

[GoColts8818]

having extra picks next year gives the colts ammunition to trade up for the top qb next year of manning isn't healthy. you would be keeping all your options open. if manning can play next year, you have to trade the pick!

Who might not be as good Luck and means we have to sit threw a year probably very close to what we went threw. Why not just take Luck? Again like someone said in this thread you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap.

[Corndog]

Who might not be as good Luck and means we have to sit threw a year probably very close to what we went threw. Why not just take Luck? Again like someone said in this thread you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap.

I still don't understand what is so great about Luck. He had a solid career with Stanford, but Stanfords o-line and running game are amazing. Harbaugh went to SF and has a system much like he ran in Stanford and now Alex Smith looks like a million bucks. I am not a Luck "hater", we need to draft an eventual replacement to Manning, I just don't see how he is miles beyond everyone else and where the evidence is that he is the next Manning. I have watched him play and I wasn't too impressed. This draft is pretty rich at the QB position and if we traded with another top ten team we go get RGIII or another top QB and still have what could turn into a quality starter. On top of that we have picks that this team needs because there are alot of holes on this team. I am cool with drafting Luck and understand it, but unlike alot of people here I can see why we would trade the pick as well. Also what is this evidence of Luck being far above everyone else at QB, I have heard the so called experts talk about it, I just would like more of an explanation and evidence rather than "because everyone says so".

[Dan]

I still don't understand what is so great about Luck. He had a solid career with Stanford, but Stanfords o-line and running game are amazing. Harbaugh went to SF and has a system much like he ran in Stanford and now Alex Smith looks like a million bucks. I am not a Luck "hater", we need to draft an eventual replacement to Manning, I just don't see how he is miles beyond everyone else and where the evidence is that he is the next Manning. I have watched him play and I wasn't too impressed. This draft is pretty rich at the QB position and if we traded with another top ten team we go get RGIII or another top QB and still have what could turn into a quality starter. On top of that we have picks that this team needs because there are alot of holes on this team. I am cool with drafting Luck and understand it, but unlike alot of people here I can see why we would trade the pick as well. Also what is this evidence of Luck being far above everyone else at QB, I have heard the so called experts talk about it, I just would like more of an explanation and evidence rather than "because everyone says so".

What are you trying to say with "so called experts"? Are you trying to say your evaluation of Luck is more accurate than every scout's?

[Corndog]

What are you trying to say with "so called experts"? Are you trying to say your evaluation of Luck is more accurate than every scout's?

No, everyone that talks about Lucks says "I heard this guy on ESPN said he was great, or all of the experts say he is best". Up until watching a video on this board I haven't even seen an actual expert NFL scout talk about it. I have just heard other people(fellow fans and announcers) say the experts love this guy. I am not going to say I know more than an actual NFL scout that is ridiculous, I am not even close to being the most knowledgeable fan. I would just like to hear an actual expert break down what makes him so great, pinpointing qualities to show he is miles above his counterparts instead of hearing people say "well I heard this person say that other people say he is the best QB prospect since Manning." I can't see it, but apparently NFL Scouts do and I am just interested in why. I have talked to a MLB scout and said they only have to watch a pitcher for an inning or two because they are just watching the mechanics of his delivery and for certain qualities. I would imagine QB scouting is very similar, I just want to know what they qualites they see in Luck, things about his release and delivery, what they look for and what makes him special.

[Dan]

No, everyone that talks about Lucks says "I heard this guy on ESPN said he was great, or all of the experts say he is best". Up until watching a video on this board I haven't even seen an actual expert NFL scout talk about it. I have just heard other people(fellow fans and announcers) say the experts love this guy. I am not going to say I know more than an actual NFL scout that is ridiculous, I am not even close to being the most knowledgeable fan. I would just like to hear an actual expert break down what makes him so great, pinpointing qualities to show he is miles above his counterparts instead of hearing people say "well I heard this person say that other people say he is the best QB prospect since Manning." I can't see it, but apparently NFL Scouts do and I am just interested in why. I have talked to a MLB scout and said they only have to watch a pitcher for an inning or two because they are just watching the mechanics of his delivery and for certain qualities. I would imagine QB scouting is very similar, I just want to know what they qualites they see in Luck, things about his release and delivery, what they look for and what makes him special.

This video could help... http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=7326681

Doesn't break down the smallest aspects of his game but Mel Kiper has ridiculous experience and he's got some very kind words. Says it's going to go into every detail, but it doesn't in that video. Keep watching and it will show you

http://espn.go.com/n...scouting-report might be better.

Actually (how many times am I going to edit this post) that second link is much better - there are tabs that break up every bit of his game

[husker61]

The last time we traded John Elway for 3 first round draft picks bad move. You do not trade the chance to get a franchise QB who will be there until maybe 2030.

they swapped 1st round picks and the colts got qb mark herman and the broncos 1st the next year. that's two 1st's and a bad qb.

[Corndog]

This video could help... http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=7326681

Doesn't break down the smallest aspects of his game but Mel Kiper has ridiculous experience and he's got some very kind words. Says it's going to go into every detail, but it doesn't in that video. Keep watching and it will show you

http://espn.go.com/n...scouting-report might be better.

Actually (how many times am I going to edit this post) that second link is much better - there are tabs that break up every bit of his game

Thanks for the link and pointing out the tabs, I missed that the first time I went to the page. Some interesting stuff, learned alot about what the scouts look for and he seems to excel at pretty much all of them. It also explains why me and probably alot of other people aren't impressed with him at first look, his arm strength.

[Dan]

Thanks for the link and pointing out the tabs, I missed that the first time I went to the page. Some interesting stuff, learned alot about what the scouts look for and he seems to excel at pretty much all of them. It also explains why me and probably alot of other people aren't impressed with him at first look, his arm strength.

I missed them the first time too, hence "might be better" - of course it's better. But I hope that page has given you more confidence into why he's so highly rated!

[husker61]

Who might not be as good Luck and means we have to sit threw a year probably very close to what we went threw. Why not just take Luck? Again like someone said in this thread you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap.

i have said before, if manning can't play you draft luck (you are completely wrong on your assumption). but if he can play, the value is to trade the pick. barkley will be coming out next year, and he was being compared to luck. maybe there is a better qb coming out after that. the colts are in a position to help the franchise for a long time if manning is healthy.

assuming why someone posts something makes you look bad or just desperate to prove your point of view.

[GoColts8818]

i have said before, if manning can't play you draft luck (you are completely wrong on your assumption). but if he can play, the value is to trade the pick. barkley will be coming out next year, and he was being compared to luck. maybe there is a better qb coming out after that. the colts are in a position to help the franchise for a long time if manning is healthy.

assuming why someone posts something makes you look bad or just desperate to prove your point of view.

How am I am completely wrong abuot my assumption? I didn't assume anything. I just responded to what you said about being able to trade the picks next year for Barkley if we want to and pointed out that why do that when you can just take Luck who is suppsoed to be the better player? Also we might not be able to trade for Barkley. Let's say Manning comes back and we have a good season and end up with say a late 20's to early 30's pick. Let's say the team we trade with get's Luck and he has an Andy Dalton type rookie season and leads that team to the playoffs so we now have an early 20's pick and an late 20's pick. If Barkley is the first overall pick or a top five pick it's going to cost more than that to go up and get him. Also if it's a team that needs a QB like say Miami they aren't going to trade the picks. So there seems to be a major assumption on your part to think we can just go get Barkley next year if we trade Luck.

[doogansquest]

No he wont. At most he will sit for a year, maybe 2. Heck, he might even start in 2012 if Peyton's health is a concern and Irsay doesnt wanna pay him that large bonus.

At the most, he will sit for the length of Manning's contract. Peyton is the greatest competitor this game has ever seen; if you knew anything about this surgery, coupled with his current progress, you'd know that he will likely be better in 2012 than he was at any point during the last 3 years. He also won't be stepping aside for Luck if he's still playing at a high level. Manning is not satisfied with anything less than Super Bowls, so he'll play as long as he feels he can achieve that.

Luck will be benched for 4 years, or (rightfully) traded before he has to worry about that.

I personally think we'll keep him and sit him. He'll stay through TC as a "just-in-case," and then sit once Manning's health is confirmed.

[doogansquest]

So says someone who just doesn't want to believe what they are saying. Irsay has a history of following threw on his word and being very honest. I see no reason why he would just start lying now. Polian has never come out and said for sure they will take Luck but he hasn't exactly backed it away from it either. Combine that with Irsay's track record of talking to the media and him saying they would take a good young QB if one happens to be there regardless of Manning's health and it's easy to see why people think the Colts are going to take Luck. You can live under your rock if you wish but the writting is on the wall.

"Writing." There's only 1 "t" in it.

Anyway, why is stating what we know - ie: we either will or we won't - the equivalent to living under a rock? Irsay has said for years they would take a good young QB, and that's why they almost took Dalton last year. Remember, however, that they didn't take him. Irsay's job isn't to make the draft picks. GM's. coaches, and scouts do that. Many people here believe Irsay is terrified of Polian and won't "challenge" the bully anyway, so what makes us think that what Irsay wants will stick? He's giving everyone the safe answers, and tweeting like a weirdo about anything and everything.

We also heard Polian say as late as last week that he'd take a CB in the 1st, if a good one were available, because we've historically never valued them that high. Is that not possible? Are the only true statements made by this franchise those which coincide with taking Andrew Luck?

[GoColts8818]

"Writing." There's only 1 "t" in it.

Anyway, why is stating what we know - ie: we either will or we won't - the equivalent to living under a rock? Irsay has said for years they would take a good young QB, and that's why they almost took Dalton last year. Remember, however, that they didn't take him. Irsay's job isn't to make the draft picks. GM's. coaches, and scouts do that. Many people here believe Irsay is terrified of Polian and won't "challenge" the bully anyway, so what makes us think that what Irsay wants will stick? He's giving everyone the safe answers, and tweeting like a weirdo about anything and everything.

We also heard Polian say as late as last week that he'd take a CB in the 1st, if a good one were available, because we've historically never valued them that high. Is that not possible? Are the only true statements made by this franchise those which coincide with taking Andrew Luck?

Wow the spell check police on the message board. Sorry for having dyslixa...

Polian has never said he would take a CB in the first round, he said it was an area of need and dropped hints that they would take one, he's also dropped just as many hints that he would take the QB.

Jim Irsay has made it pretty clear what he wants and he owns the team so if he tells Polian that's what he wants that's what is going to happen. Polian has also said they aren't going to trade the pick and take the best player there, if that's Luck like just about anyone who's job it is to scout the draft is saying then it's going to be Luck we take.

[husker61]

How am I am completely wrong abuot my assumption? I didn't assume anything. I just responded to what you said about being able to trade the picks next year for Barkley if we want to and pointed out that why do that when you can just take Luck who is suppsoed to be the better player? Also we might not be able to trade for Barkley. Let's say Manning comes back and we have a good season and end up with say a late 20's to early 30's pick. Let's say the team we trade with get's Luck and he has an Andy Dalton type rookie season and leads that team to the playoffs so we now have an early 20's pick and an late 20's pick. If Barkley is the first overall pick or a top five pick it's going to cost more than that to go up and get him. Also if it's a team that needs a QB like say Miami they aren't going to trade the picks. So there seems to be a major assumption on your part to think we can just go get Barkley next year if we trade Luck.

no big deal, if manning is healthy we can put off looking for a qb another year or two. what if luck is a bust? you never know.

you assumed that i didn't want luck and was looking for an excuse to not take him " you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap".

[Restored]

Lol people that say Luck could be a bust are extremely one sided. I could easily come out and say RG3 or any other QB in the next 3 years could be a bust. IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE

[husker61]

At the most, he will sit for the length of Manning's contract. Peyton is the greatest competitor this game has ever seen; if you knew anything about this surgery, coupled with his current progress, you'd know that he will likely be better in 2012 than he was at any point during the last 3 years. He also won't be stepping aside for Luck if he's still playing at a high level. Manning is not satisfied with anything less than Super Bowls, so he'll play as long as he feels he can achieve that.

Luck will be benched for 4 years, or (rightfully) traded before he has to worry about that.

i completely agree!

[GoColts8818]

no big deal, if manning is healthy we can put off looking for a qb another year or two. what if luck is a bust? you never know.

you assumed that i didn't want luck and was looking for an excuse to not take him " you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap".

Sounds like you are more intrested in playing who assumed what than you are in dealing with the point of thinking we can just get Barkley next year if we pass on Luck is a flawed theory. I will ask you if Manning is healthy next year are you against taking Luck? Then there will be no assuming. I don't think there is one person in the world (unless you just really hate Luck) that would say if Manning isn't healthy next year we shouldn't take Luck. So I don't see where that is an issue. The issue how do you feel if Manning IS healthy. You seem to be against taking Luck then and I disagree with that but like I said I am asking you so there will be no more assuming on that part.

Could Luck be a bust? Sure he could, ANY player in the draft we could take could be a bust. The chance someone could be a bust is not a reason to pass on him or you would never draft anyone. Also based on the "experts" Luck is as close to of a sure thing as you are ever going to find in the draft.

What if Luck is the next Peyton Manning and we pass on him? You going to tell me in about 8 years when Manning is retired and Luck is in the prime of his career you wouldn't be upset we passed on him just because we had Peyton Manning on the roster? If the Colts honestly think Luck is going to be the next Manning they take him regardless of what is going on with Peyton just like they have pretty much said they will do.

[oldunclemark]

Oh, Im fine with having Luck here. I think it's a great opportunity to move seamlessly into our future. I just find it comical of all the silly excuses people come up with not to take him.

There are 2 schools of thought....

Its not so much him. We're 2-14 and about to be drafting a player who..in our best case plans..wont play a down next year...

How silly is that?

[ConBro]

Just becuase they know each other doesnt mean they're friends. But I really don't know that much about them together so idk...

I read that Peyton has been talking to Luck throughout this season, congratulating him on his successes. Also, Luck has attended Manning's Passing Academy for years now, and is even a camp counselor. THey know each other pretty well, considering.

[Dan]

There are 2 schools of thought....

Its not so much him. We're 2-14 and about to be drafting a player who..in our best case plans..wont play a down next year...

How silly is that?

Not very if you consider the circumstances. On the surface it seems absurd but if Manning returns to full fitness it changes this season's team completely.

I read that Peyton has been talking to Luck throughout this season, congratulating him on his successes. Also, Luck has attended Manning's Passing Academy for years now, and is even a camp counselor. THey know each other pretty well, considering.

Indeed - this video (

) shows a little insight to their relationship.

[ConBro]

There are 2 schools of thought....

Its not so much him. We're 2-14 and about to be drafting a player who..in our best case plans..wont play a down next year...

How silly is that?

Not too silly. After 3 neck surgeries, "best case" is an understatement. Also, it would not at all surprise me if we are up big or down big to an opponent next year, Luck goes in. This isn't like Curtis under Peyton. How silly would it be to pass up on somebody with so much potential for a dime-a-dozen WR or HB (God forbid)? There are multiple angles we can look at this, and since April is 4 months away, all we can do is speculate on every single ONE of those angles. Lemme grab a cold one, and let's get started.

[ConBro]

Good post Dan!

[Bob Taylor]

The Colts will draft Luck and try and find a plausible exit plan for Manning. Irsay wants Luck. This will right the

wrong made when the pick to draft John Elway was forced. Irsay is very eclectic. He wants to be the guy to

draft the best QB ever. If he doesn't and Luck becomes the best ever, this could be devestating. The Colts

are a frugal team. They can't pay a player all this money and have him sit. It's not good business. RG3 won't

be a Colt because the team isn't built for his style of football. This is a pass protect team and not a running team.

The same holes won't be there. Teams will for RG3 to pass and even though he's accurate than most. He is more

than a passer in college and that doesn't carry over to the NFL for a long period of time.

[DILLIGAFER]

The Colts will draft Luck and try and find a plausible exit plan for Manning. Irsay wants Luck. This will right the

wrong made when the pick to draft John Elway was forced. Irsay is very eclectic. He wants to be the guy to

draft the best QB ever. If he doesn't and Luck becomes the best ever, this could be devestating. The Colts

are a frugal team. They can't pay a player all this money and have him sit. It's not good business. RG3 won't

be a Colt because the team isn't built for his style of football. This is a pass protect team and not a running team.

The same holes won't be there. Teams will for RG3 to pass and even though he's accurate than most. He is more

than a passer in college and that doesn't carry over to the NFL for a long period of time.

Really? When did Irsay state he wants Luck and is looking for an exit plan for Manning?

[husker61]

Jim Irsay has made it pretty clear what he wants and he owns the team so if he tells Polian that's what he wants that's what is going to happen.

if this is true then it is going to be a long time before the colts are a winning team again.

he hired polian to make personnel decisions, and i don't see that changing.

[super8todd]

There are 2 schools of thought....

Its not so much him. We're 2-14 and about to be drafting a player who..in our best case plans..wont play a down next year...

How silly is that?

And then there is the fact that we went 2-14 because we didn't have a functioning QB this year.. there is that school of thought.. so its not so silly to finally get our QB for the next decade and future.

[husker61]

i have said before, if manning can't play you draft luck (you are completely wrong on your assumption). but if he can play, the value is to trade the pick.

Sounds like you are more intrested in playing who assumed what than you are in dealing with the point of thinking we can just get Barkley next year if we pass on Luck is a flawed theory. I will ask you if Manning is healthy next year are you against taking Luck? Then there will be no assuming. I don't think there is one person in the world (unless you just really hate Luck) that would say if Manning isn't healthy next year we shouldn't take Luck. So I don't see where that is an issue. The issue how do you feel if Manning IS healthy. You seem to be against taking Luck then and I disagree with that but like I said I am asking you so there will be no more assuming on that part.

What if Luck is the next Peyton Manning and we pass on him? You going to tell me in about 8 years when Manning is retired and Luck is in the prime of his career you wouldn't be upset we passed on him just because we had Peyton Manning on the roster? If the Colts honestly think Luck is going to be the next Manning they take him regardless of what is going on with Peyton just like they have pretty much said they will do.

i already answered your question in the above post.

your assumption was that i was against taking luck no matter what, and that's not true.

i won't be upset at all! if manning is healthy he will play a minimum of 4 more years.

[GoColts8818]

if this is true then it is going to be a long time before the colts are a winning team again.

he hired polian to make personnel decisions, and i don't see that changing.

yeah and Polian has said we aren't going to trade the pick and we will take the best player on the board, that looks to be Luck. Polian has said they wouldn't shy away from taking a QB and listed QB as one of the poistions of need going into the off-season. The only two poistions he said he felt good about were OT and RB. I don't think Polian and Irsay are having a debate about wanting Luck. I think Irsay is just a little more vocal about the Colts plans than Polian is.

It wont be a long time till this team is a winner again, they lost several games by one score this year and that was with sketchy at best QB play. If we have Manning back next year I think it's safe to say that we will see a forward step in the QB poistion play next season and this team will be winning just like they have just about every year under Manning.

[bap1331]

Not very if you consider the circumstances. On the surface it seems absurd but if Manning returns to full fitness it changes this season's team completely.

Indeed - this video (

) shows a little insight to their relationship.

this video is from July 11th, 2011. We didnt even know Peyton was gonna miss the season and we would get the #1 overall pick...lol

[GoColts8818]

i already answered your question in the above post.

your assumption was that i was against taking luck no matter what, and that's not true.

i won't be upset at all! if manning is healthy he will play a minimum of 4 more years.

I just told you no that wasn't my assumption and told you why because I don't think anyone is going to question if we should take Luck if Manning can't come back that isn't the debate so I didn't factor it in, the debate is should we take Luck if Manning DOES come back, that's where I was speaking from I've now told you that twice so time to let it go and focus on the part you are ignoring which was the first post you made about how we can use the picks we would get from trading Luck this year to go up and get Barkley next year we want too. That's a flawed theory as I have laid out for you above, it's a very uncontroled situation for the Colts, if they want a QB it makes more sense to take Luck this year when they have the pick.

[ConBro]

this video is from July 11th, 2011. We didnt even know Peyton was gonna miss the season and we would get the #1 overall pick...lol

That wasn't the point of the video.

[husker61]

if he can play, the value is to trade the pick.

I just told you no that wasn't my assumption and told you why because I don't think anyone is going to question if we should take Luck if Manning can't come back that isn't the debate so I didn't factor it in, the debate is should we take Luck if Manning DOES come back, that's where I was speaking from I've now told you that twice so time to let it go and focus on the part you are ignoring which was the first post you made about how we can use the picks we would get from trading Luck this year to go up and get Barkley next year we want too. That's a flawed theory as I have laid out for you above, it's a very uncontroled situation for the Colts, if they want a QB it makes more sense to take Luck this year when they have the pick.

can't you read?

what is so hard about understanding "if he can play, the value is to trade the pick". you don't take luck!

[Dan]

this video is from July 11th, 2011. We didnt even know Peyton was gonna miss the season and we would get the #1 overall pick...lol

That wasn't the point of the video.

He's right - the point was proving that they had a good relationship and have worked together happily before, backing up ConBro's post from earlier.

[GoColts8818]

can't you read?

what is so hard about understanding "if he can play, the value is to trade the pick". you don't take luck!

I can read I disagree with your point which is what I keep trying to say. So you jumped all over me for assuming that you were saying the Colts should trade the pick if Manning is Healthy yet you just showed me a quote where you just said that...I am missing how I assumed wrong. Like I've said now for a third time I never assumed you didn't want Luck if Manning wasn't healthy just because I don't think anyone is thinking that. Everyone seems to be onboard with take Luck if Manning isn't healthy.

I think you take Luck even with a healthy Peyton Manning, it sets you up for the next 15 years and I don't think we are going to be in poistion to get another QB of Luck's talent in the Manning era. So rather than having to trade the future to get another QB down the road I say we do it now while we have the pick to do it. It doesn't hurt either that the QB there is supposed to be the next great thing and I am sorry I don't see "he could be a bust" as a good arguement for not taking him because you can say that about any draft pick. I also don't think it's a good argument to say we can Trade Luck and then trade the picks we got for that to get a QB next year who isn't supposed to be as good as the QB on the board this year. Beyond that there are several flaws with that plan what if Luck gets hurt or has a bad senior year? Add that to everything else I made about that case before.

Is their value to trading the pick? Sure there is but like I said with Peyton Manning before hand just because you get more picks doesn't mean those picks are going to equal the value of the player you traded away to get them. If Luck is as good as advertised we are going to kick ourselves for his whole career for not taking him. Like someone else said when they say the guy is suppsoed to be as good as Manning that's not someone you pass on. This dude has been the hands down first pick for two years now and has been fine combed to death and experts aren't even questioning that he's going to be the top pick. Very rarely are guys that the media is THAT sure of busts. Again is there a chance he could be a bust? yes but it's seems to be less of a chance than any other player in the draft based on what the people who eat, breath, live this stuff are saying.

Add to that what our owner has been saying and our GM has been saying I think the handwritting is on the wall. Manning sound liked he wouldn't be thrilled with the pick today in his interview but he would do what the team wants to do and pointed out himself he's under contract to the Colts and it's not his call. Luck said in an interview earlier this year he could learn from a Vet QB. Putting all the peaces together it sounds like the Colts are going to take Luck regardless of Manning's health.

[Restored]

I can read I disagree with your point which is what I keep trying to say. So you jumped all over me for assuming that you were saying the Colts should trade the pick if Manning is Healthy yet you just showed me a quote where you just said that...I am missing how I assumed wrong. Like I've said now for a third time I never assumed you didn't want Luck if Manning wasn't healthy just because I don't think anyone is thinking that. Everyone seems to be onboard with take Luck if Manning isn't healthy.

I think you take Luck even with a healthy Peyton Manning, it sets you up for the next 15 years and I don't think we are going to be in poistion to get another QB of Luck's talent in the Manning era. So rather than having to trade the future to get another QB down the road I say we do it now while we have the pick to do it. It doesn't hurt either that the QB there is supposed to be the next great thing and I am sorry I don't see "he could be a bust" as a good arguement for not taking him because you can say that about any draft pick. I also don't think it's a good argument to say we can Trade Luck and then trade the picks we got for that to get a QB next year who isn't supposed to be as good as the QB on the board this year. Beyond that there are several flaws with that plan what if Luck gets hurt or has a bad senior year? Add that to everything else I made about that case before.

Is their value to trading the pick? Sure there is but like I said with Peyton Manning before hand just because you get more picks doesn't mean those picks are going to equal the value of the player you traded away to get them. If Luck is as good as advertised we are going to kick ourselves for his whole career for not taking him. Like someone else said when they say the guy is suppsoed to be as good as Manning that's not someone you pass on. This dude has been the hands down first pick for two years now and has been fine combed to death and experts aren't even questioning that he's going to be the top pick. Very rarely are guys that the media is THAT sure of busts. Again is there a chance he could be a bust? yes but it's seems to be less of a chance than any other player in the draft based on what the people who eat, breath, live this stuff are saying.

Add to that what our owner has been saying and our GM has been saying I think the handwritting is on the wall. Manning sound liked he wouldn't be thrilled with the pick today in his interview but he would do what the team wants to do and pointed out himself he's under contract to the Colts and it's not his call. Luck said in an interview earlier this year he could learn from a Vet QB. Putting all the peaces together it sounds like the Colts are going to take Luck regardless of Manning's health.

You pretty much nailed all the nails into the coffin with that one. Good post!

[bayone]

LET THE MEDIA FRENZY START, Oh it has already ,, will make for dramatic off season discussions, debates etc

http://aol.sportingn...s#ixzz1iIdSDovw

We're in Luck, an epic QB controversy awaits

( in other words , Colts Getting # 1 pick makes for great print and Media coverage with multiple angles to debate this offsesaon)

( BTW - I want Peyton Back Healthy & trade pick and fill holes with quality, this is a rare opportunity, & yes Luck MAY be rare as well, whatever we do it will be second guessed )

JACKSONVILLE, Fla.—Thank you, Noah, Hunter and Madden Orlovsky. If not for you guys, we might have missed out on the greatest NFL offseason in history.

[husker61]

I can read I disagree with your point which is what I keep trying to say. So you jumped all over me for assuming that you were saying the Colts should trade the pick if Manning is Healthy yet you just showed me a quote where you just said that...I am missing how I assumed wrong. Like I've said now for a third time I never assumed you didn't want Luck if Manning wasn't healthy just because I don't think anyone is thinking that. Everyone seems to be onboard with take Luck if Manning isn't healthy.

I think you take Luck even with a healthy Peyton Manning, it sets you up for the next 15 years and I don't think we are going to be in poistion to get another QB of Luck's talent in the Manning era. So rather than having to trade the future to get another QB down the road I say we do it now while we have the pick to do it. It doesn't hurt either that the QB there is supposed to be the next great thing and I am sorry I don't see "he could be a bust" as a good arguement for not taking him because you can say that about any draft pick. I also don't think it's a good argument to say we can Trade Luck and then trade the picks we got for that to get a QB next year who isn't supposed to be as good as the QB on the board this year. Beyond that there are several flaws with that plan what if Luck gets hurt or has a bad senior year? Add that to everything else I made about that case before.

Is their value to trading the pick? Sure there is but like I said with Peyton Manning before hand just because you get more picks doesn't mean those picks are going to equal the value of the player you traded away to get them. If Luck is as good as advertised we are going to kick ourselves for his whole career for not taking him. Like someone else said when they say the guy is suppsoed to be as good as Manning that's not someone you pass on. This dude has been the hands down first pick for two years now and has been fine combed to death and experts aren't even questioning that he's going to be the top pick. Very rarely are guys that the media is THAT sure of busts. Again is there a chance he could be a bust? yes but it's seems to be less of a chance than any other player in the draft based on what the people who eat, breath, live this stuff are saying.

Add to that what our owner has been saying and our GM has been saying I think the handwritting is on the wall. Manning sound liked he wouldn't be thrilled with the pick today in his interview but he would do what the team wants to do and pointed out himself he's under contract to the Colts and it's not his call. Luck said in an interview earlier this year he could learn from a Vet QB. Putting all the peaces together it sounds like the Colts are going to take Luck regardless of Manning's health.

those are all fair points and i don't have a problem with you having your opinion. the problem i had was when you said " you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap". i could say the same to you, that you are following into the finding any excuse to take luck trap. i don't think that would be fair for me to say. you can debate things without throwing everyone that doesn't agree with your opinion into the same boat. people could say someone is finding any excuse to like or dislike addai, angerer, polian, etc, is that a good way to debate a topic?

"you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap" just isn't true because i did say i could see a scenario that the colts would draft luck. you just dismissed it.

[GoColts8818]

those are all fair points and i don't have a problem with you having your opinion. the problem i had was when you said " you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap". i could say the same to you, that you are following into the finding any excuse to take luck trap. i don't think that would be fair for me to say. you can debate things without throwing everyone that doesn't agree with your opinion into the same boat. people could say someone is finding any excuse to like or dislike addai, angerer, polian, etc, is that a good way to debate a topic?

"you following into the finding any excuse to not take Luck trap" just isn't true because i did say i could see a scenario that the colts would draft luck. you just dismissed it.

I am not finding an excuse, I am telling you what I think the Colts are going to do based on what they are saying. That's not a trap, that's listening to people who are going to make this call as I laid out in my last paragraph. That's where I got most of my stuff from is listening to what others are saying. So far the arguements I've seen against taking Luck seem to be he could be a bust, we could just get another QB either in this draft or in future drafts, or my personal favorite (and this didn't come from you and I am not sure if t is even in this thread) the I don't see why people are so high on Luck. To me those aren't good arguements and seem to be people trying to find a reason not to take Luck.

I think the best two arguements against it would be that you can't have both. However, our owner and GM have seemed to dispell that as false and that we can have both if we want both and again based on what they are saying to me it sounds like they want both, especially the guy who owns the team. Manning and Luck have both all but said they could coexist with each other so I sorta don't listen to that arguement because the people who are making this call don't seem to buy into it. The other arguement is we can get more value by trading the pick. Again I disagree with that because I do happen to think Luck is going to be as good as people say he's going to be. If he is it's going to take more than three first rounders and a couple of second rounders to equal that value. I would admit though that is the strongest arguement though. With that said though Bill Polian has already flat out said they aren't going to trade the pick. Now with that said if he's fired clearly that changes things.

Again based on everything I've seen reported, leaning mostly on what Irsay and Polian have said it sounds like the Colts have ruled out those arguements and they are going to take Luck. There does seem like a lot of people who are trying to find any reason in the world for us not to take Luck even when you have the owner saying "if there happens to be a good young QB there we wouldn't hesitate to take him." and the GM saying we wont trade the pick. If you still feel like they aren't going to take Luck that's fine you are more than welcomed to your opinion. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it just like you don't have to agree with mine.

[Pancake Block]

No he wont. At most he will sit for a year, maybe 2. Heck, he might even start in 2012 if Peyton's health is a concern and Irsay doesnt wanna pay him that large bonus.

I say we sign Peyton, if healthy, to a four year deal. Have him start next year, then trade him for mega-draft picks to set the table for Luck. Give Peyton the choice of approving the trade or not. Don't want to see him get stuck with some * team for his last hurrah.