CBS/98.5 Sources: Under-inflated balls OK'd by refs pregame

[Bad Morty]

This entire idea that the balls magically deflated is similar to the magic loogey theory from Seinfeld.

 

Lol...you think science is magic...that explains a lot.

[GoPats]

One word that's come up a lot of times in the last 10 days is "integrity." The Patriots have been accused by the NFL-watching public of compromising the integrity of the game. 

 

What's kind of telling, though, is how much trust many are willing to put in the NFL and its processes and procedures. 2014 was a rough year for the league. Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson... and more refereeing controversies than I can really even remember. Three weeks ago we had the big blow-up over the call in the Dallas/Detroit game. 

 

So I just find it surprising that people are willing to throw their allegiance to the league here. The NFL is not exactly a bastion of integrity. Domestic abuse, recreational drug use, performance enhancing drug use, owners and staff getting arrested, gun crimes... 

 

If this whole thing started because Indy's staff said something to the refs at halftime, and the league knew right away (Sunday night) the details of the pre-game check, now the NFL has a problem. Because either: a) One of their premiere teams, playing in their biggest game of the season, broke the rules, or b) Their employees (the refs) didn't do everything they were supposed to do pre-game.

 

I believe at this point that's why this has dragged out. If there was nothing weird about those pre-game procedures, it seems to me this investigation should have taken about 20 seconds to do a little addition/subtraction. It would be first grade math. 

 

This is not to say the Patriots are completely innocent here. They may well have submitted the game balls low on PSI, knowing that there's a good chance they would "slip" through. That's something we've seen from other stories that have surfaced, like the one with Aaron Rodgers. But it's becoming more and more feasible that no one let any air out of those balls except Mother Nature. You don't have baselines for either team's balls, so how is it even possible to make a determination? 

 

I realize the court of public opinion adjourned about 10 minutes after Kravitz and Mortensen "broke" the news. That doesn't matter and will never change. Even if the Patriots go 14-2 for the next five seasons and win three Super Bowls, people will still cling to the "cheaters!" mantra because it's easier than accepting that a team could work hard enough and execute well enough to put themselves in a position to win every year. 

 

But the official record still does matter, at least to Patriots fans. 

 

I don't begrudge anyone's opinion on it. I just would like to think, if it was any other team, that I would be a little more open-minded and a little less eager to burn the castle down. 

[GoPats]

This entire idea that the balls magically deflated is similar to the magic loogey theory from Seinfeld.

 

And the idea that the Colts' footballs lost NO air pressure despite the temperature change actually defies the laws of physics. 

 

Just sayin'. 

[dw49]

Do you not find the statement "The balls were properly gauged" with no description of what exactly that means to be a very different statement than "Walt placed a gauge in every ball and noted the PSI level of each ball"? I do. Why is the league being obtuse about this? They obviously are willing to leak reports that incriminate the Patriots, so the vague comments can't have anything to do with a desire to not interfere with the game...that ship sailed. They seem to want people to know that they think the Patriots cheated, yet they won't, when pressed, offer anything substantive to back up that claim....and it's looking more and more like the reason for that is that they CAN'T offer anything definitive.

 

 

 

Properly gauged would be a blatant lie if this was done by squeezing the footballs. I think you must be catching something from Virdulant.

[Bad Morty]

Properly gauged would be a blatant lie if this was done by squeezing the footballs. I think you must be catching something from Virdulant.

 

The verb "to gauge" literally means "to estimate".

[bababooey]

The verb "to gauge" literally means "to estimate".

Bad on the NFL to make their protocols based on estimates.

[OffensivelyPC]

The verb "to gauge" literally means "to estimate".

okay bill clinton.

[Narcosys]

Heres an article i was directed too. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?_r=1

 

"Timothy Gay, an experimental physicist at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln who once wrote a book called “The Physics of Football,” with a foreword by Bill Belichick, the Patriots’ coach, said there was no doubt that a slightly deflated ball would be easier to grip."

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Posted this in another thread but didn't want to see it get lost in the mix: 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/27/richs-sources-patriots-footballs-passed-referee-inspection-just-under-allowable-psi-level/

 

 

One thing that has been reported this last week, as we’ve been learning about how footballs are treated before a game is that before every game, a referee measured with a pressure gauge each football to see if the pressure in each one is between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.

 

But that apparently isn’t always the case. As a matter of fact, from what I’ve been told, many times the refs don’t test the pressure of each ball with a gauge at all. Sometimes refs hold the ball, squeeze it, briefly inspect it, then sign off on it. Next ball. It’s never been a problem before. This is apparently a well known fact in the NFL.

 

 Now according to my sources, The Patriots turned in their footballs to the ref at a pressure just below the allowable PSI.

 

If it’s a situation where the refs DID use a gauge, the refs would see the balls were under inflated, and inflate them to the proper size. But in this case, the balls were approved and given back to the Patriots under-inflated.

 

 

This has been my question from day one. I realize we're talking "sources" here but that's all Mortensen had, too. It would explain the long, drawn-out nature of the NFL's investigation. 

 

It's funny if you listen to the actual clip from the radio. Fred Toucher is a Jets fan and isn't very good at hiding his dislike for the Patriots, lol... 

 

Again, not saying this is true... not much of anything regarding this story has been confirmed either way, though. Just an interesting twist to the plot. 

Look man  The long drawn out nature of the investigation is the reward for the cheaters with the SB so close niether Kraft or the NFL want this distraction .

 

Its all about the money & not the integrity of the game it does not matter that the Patriots balls mysteriously deflated in the cold weather on there side of the field while the Colts did not regardless of the out come the game was tarnished from the start .

 

If players cheat and use steroids regardless of the excuse there penalized smoke weed or been drinking like Josh Gorden big penalties ,  Why because it violates the rules or the integrity of the game , Steroids  are a way for a player to gain an unfair advantage .

 

Under inflated balls are an unfair advantage regardless of the final outcome the opportunity for a fair & even performance by both teams never existed from the kick off .

 

Its really simple the Patriots will do anything to win & even Patriot homers no this even while they stick there head into the sand .

[Bad Morty]

Look man  The long drawn out nature of the investigation is the reward for the cheaters with the SB so close niether Kraft or the NFL want this distraction .

 

Its all about the money & not the integrity of the game it does not matter that the Patriots balls mysteriously deflated in the cold weather on there side of the field while the Colts did not

 

You need to keep up with the news...the bold part is inaccurate. And the NY Times study above pretty much puts all of this nonsense to bed. Both teams balls deflated due to the conditions. That's all there is to this.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

And the idea that the Colts' footballs lost NO air pressure despite the temperature change actually defies the laws of physics. 

 

Just sayin'. 

 

According to the NFL  that is exactly what happened .   11 outta 12

 

Are you a physicist ?    So what your saying is you can't believe the Colts balls were properly inflated ? 

 

Once again according to the NFL .. All 12

 

IMO I will feel mistrust for anything the NFL says about deflategate , To put it simply it was a small thing until the Patriot organization tried to cover it up . 

 

Cheaters do prosper especially the Patriots over & over again .  Jus sayin

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

You need to keep up with the news...the bold part is inaccurate. And the NY Times study above pretty much puts all of this nonsense to bed. Both teams balls deflated due to the conditions. That's all there is to this.

The new york times so what .

 

According to the NFL you are mistaken

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

The NFL has found that 11 of the New England Patriots' 12 game balls were inflated significantly below the NFL's requirements, league sources involved and familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC Championship Game told ESPN.

More from ESPN.com

With the integrity of the game at stake, the NFL should come down hard on Bill Belichick and the Pats if they are proven to have underinflated footballs, writes Jackie MacMullan. Story

The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

[da_pats_troll]

 

According to the NFL  that is exactly what happened .   11 outta 12

 

Are you a physicist ?    So what your saying is you can't believe the Colts balls were properly inflated ? 

 

Once again according to the NFL .. All 12

 

IMO I will feel mistrust for anything the NFL says about deflategate , To put it simply it was a small thing until the Patriot organization tried to cover it up . 

 

Cheaters do prosper especially the Patriots over & over again .  Jus sayin

 

 

But the league never said the colts balls never deflated. They said they were still in the allowable range. This is a minor but important distinction. One set of balls can fall from 12.5 to 11.5 and be out of the allowed psi, and the other set can go from 13.5 to 12.5 and still be in the allowable range.

 

And I was a chemist..is that close enough?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

But the league never said the colts balls never deflated. They said they were still in the allowable range. This is a minor but important distinction. One set of balls can fall from 12.5 to 11.5 and be out of the allowed psi, and the other set can go from 13.5 to 12.5 and still be in the allowable range.

 

And I was a chemist..is that close enough?

 

While some have suggested that the underinflation could have happened naturally because of the cold weather, a Boston College physicist told the Boston Herald, "If the footballs were notably lower pressure, then the only way it could have happened was if someone went in and stuck a needle in the ball and let two-thirds of the gas out, which means it is now up to the NFL to follow the chain of command — but no logical physics can explain the kind of pressure loss they’re talking about."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/advantage-of-deflated-footballs-2015-1#ixzz3QHgkMJpN

[Superman]

One word that's come up a lot of times in the last 10 days is "integrity." The Patriots have been accused by the NFL-watching public of compromising the integrity of the game. 

 

What's kind of telling, though, is how much trust many are willing to put in the NFL and its processes and procedures. 2014 was a rough year for the league. Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson... and more refereeing controversies than I can really even remember. Three weeks ago we had the big blow-up over the call in the Dallas/Detroit game. 

 

So I just find it surprising that people are willing to throw their allegiance to the league here. The NFL is not exactly a bastion of integrity. Domestic abuse, recreational drug use, performance enhancing drug use, owners and staff getting arrested, gun crimes... 

 

If this whole thing started because Indy's staff said something to the refs at halftime, and the league knew right away (Sunday night) the details of the pre-game check, now the NFL has a problem. Because either: a) One of their premiere teams, playing in their biggest game of the season, broke the rules, or b) Their employees (the refs) didn't do everything they were supposed to do pre-game.

 

I believe at this point that's why this has dragged out. If there was nothing weird about those pre-game procedures, it seems to me this investigation should have taken about 20 seconds to do a little addition/subtraction. It would be first grade math. 

 

This is not to say the Patriots are completely innocent here. They may well have submitted the game balls low on PSI, knowing that there's a good chance they would "slip" through. That's something we've seen from other stories that have surfaced, like the one with Aaron Rodgers. But it's becoming more and more feasible that no one let any air out of those balls except Mother Nature. You don't have baselines for either team's balls, so how is it even possible to make a determination? 

 

I realize the court of public opinion adjourned about 10 minutes after Kravitz and Mortensen "broke" the news. That doesn't matter and will never change. Even if the Patriots go 14-2 for the next five seasons and win three Super Bowls, people will still cling to the "cheaters!" mantra because it's easier than accepting that a team could work hard enough and execute well enough to put themselves in a position to win every year. 

 

But the official record still does matter, at least to Patriots fans. 

 

I don't begrudge anyone's opinion on it. I just would like to think, if it was any other team, that I would be a little more open-minded and a little less eager to burn the castle down. 

 

Let me provide you with a musical score: 

 

 

It's hard for me to feel any sympathy for Pats fans, sir. Sorry. Especially after that thread that was posted yesterday. I was actually planning to start a "game talk only" thread, but now I'm not sure I care. 

 

1) Your team is in the Super Bowl. The 6th appearance in 14 seasons. You can come here to argue with people who think your team cheated, or you can enjoy being in the Super Bowl again. Or both, it's up to you.

 

2) It's hard to stomach watching Pats fans turn this into some kind of referendum on either the media or the jealousy of other fans. This situation only exists because the Patriots footballs were out of compliance. It's not our fault. It's not Mort's fault, it's not Kravitz's fault. It's not the Colts' fault.

 

3) Playing devil's advocate is one thing, and that makes sense when it's your team under the gun. Turning this around on other teams and their fans bull manure. Especially when that platform is promoted on the Colts message board.

[da_pats_troll]

 

While some have suggested that the underinflation could have happened naturally because of the cold weather, a Boston College physicist told the Boston Herald, "If the footballs were notably lower pressure, then the only way it could have happened was if someone went in and stuck a needle in the ball and let two-thirds of the gas out, which means it is now up to the NFL to follow the chain of command — but no logical physics can explain the kind of pressure loss they’re talking about."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/advantage-of-deflated-footballs-2015-1#ixzz3QHgkMJpN

 

 

Actually, two posters from here, one a mod, along with myself, did the math. The temperature drop alone would account for 1 to 1.3 psi drop. You are free to believe what you want, but read what was stated "notably". What is notably? 2 psi? 3? The "reports" now are it was 1 to 1.5 psi, which falls in line with the physics.

 

For every news article post that you can find that disputes it, I can find one that says its possible. 

 

It really all depends on how much the balls were underinflated. Original reports were 2, which, based on that, that article i correct, physics could not explain that drop. If its 1 psi, as is now bring stated, then it can.

 

Problem is the nfl screwed the pooch. They never recorded the psi's, so no one knows if its 2, 1.5 or 1.

[HoggHannah]

I am just sitting back and watching this whole deflate gate controversy fall in on itself like a house of cards.    Do you hear that beep, beep, beep?  That's the media backing out of their "guilty" predictions one by one.  Even Doyel over twitter has laid the foundation, this morning.  He was one of the crazies too.

 

At this point, for anyone to sit back and definitively say that they know for a fact the Pats are guilty, are just lying to themselves, and delusional.

[Bad Morty]

 

While some have suggested that the underinflation could have happened naturally because of the cold weather, a Boston College physicist told the Boston Herald, "If the footballs were notably lower pressure, then the only way it could have happened was if someone went in and stuck a needle in the ball and let two-thirds of the gas out, which means it is now up to the NFL to follow the chain of command — but no logical physics can explain the kind of pressure loss they’re talking about."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/advantage-of-deflated-footballs-2015-1#ixzz3QHgkMJpN

 

lol...you're big on old news, eh? We've all moved past this stuff. No starting PSI measurements were logged, meaning the Colts balls very likely deflated same as the Pats, and most reputable scientists agree that it was due to the weather.

[OffensivelyPC]

lol...you're big on old news, eh? We've all moved past this stuff. No starting PSI measurements were logged, meaning the Colts balls very likely deflated same as the Pats, and most reputable scientists agree that it was due to the weather.

Old news is still better than looking at new news and finding a way to spin "properly measured" and "gauged" to mean checking the pressure with your hands.

[GoPats]

 

According to the NFL  that is exactly what happened .   11 outta 12

 

Are you a physicist ?    So what your saying is you can't believe the Colts balls were properly inflated ? 

 

 

 

I am not a physicist, no. We're talking about something most people learn in 8th grade science class when their teacher tells them how hot air balloons work. 

 

You completely missed the point anyway. I'm sure the Colts' footballs were properly inflated. But it would be impossible for those balls to have the same exact air pressure at room temperature that they'd have after three hours at around 50 degrees F. That would mean that the air inside the football was unaffected by the outside temperature, and that would defy the laws of physics. 

[DougDew]

Except is is protocol for refs to check every game ball at every game with a pressure gauge.  It is written and protocol-

 

 

They likely knew that they didn't log starting pressures, but each ref at every game is to make sure that every ball brought in for game use is between 12.5 and 13.5 psi.  If it is not, add or remove air until it is in compliance.  Every ref crew does it, and usually the job goes to the Jr. member of the crew as a rite of passage.  But post season games are manned by all veteran crews (all-star groups) and the job goes to a veteran official that is at the game as an alternate.

 

This is a requirement, not a recommendation, and not doing it would be severely punishable by the league.

That's fine.  I was basically arguing that it doesn't matter whether or not the officials even checked them properly.  The guy was trying to imply that it was the NFL's fault for not catching them.....and that trying to out-wit rule enforcement is part of the game...even before the game starts. (as with spygate too).

 

What underpins all of the Pats transgressions over the years is the apparent effort put into finding holes in the way the rules are enforced and driving a truck through them.  That mindset should not be tolerated by the other NFL owners.  It would cost the league too much money to increase the amount of policing necessary to monitor individuals who operated that way. 

 

And even policing aparently isn't good enough.....they demand proof.  How much will it continually cost the NFL to gather enough proof to overcome the tremendous effort a coach places in continually breaking the rules. 

 

The BelliKraft way is simply is forcing the other 31 owners to waste their time and money..aided by an enabling fan base...which pressures the costs of tickets and jerseys to be inflated for everyone. 

 

Its time to vote Kraft, Bellichick, and Brady out of the league......and move the franchise to LA.

[Superman]

I am not a physicist, no. We're talking about something most people learn in 8th grade science class when their teacher tells them how hot air balloons work. 

 

You completely missed the point anyway. I'm sure the Colts' footballs were properly inflated. But it would be impossible for those balls to have the same exact air pressure at room temperature that they'd have after three hours at around 50 degrees F. That would mean that the air inside the football was unaffected by the outside temperature, and that would defy the laws of physics. 

 

And that ^^^ is largely irrelevant, because at halftime, it was not the Colts' footballs that were out of compliance.

[ViriLudant]

This entire idea that the balls magically deflated is similar to the magic loogey theory from Seinfeld.

Except that MIT has already proven it to be possible.

Or do you know more than MIT professors ?

[bababooey]

Except that MIT has already proven it to be possible.

Or do you know more than MIT professors ?

I know more than MIT professors. Those who can't do, teach.

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

has anyone else read this?  the graphs take a moment to become clear but had some interesting stats about the Pats fumble rates.

 

 

http://linemakers.sportingnews.com/nfl/2015-01-27/patriots-deflate-gate-fumble-rate-research-tom-brady-nfl-rule-change-game-balls

[da_pats_troll]

has anyone else read this?  the graphs take a moment to become clear but had some interesting stats about the Pats fumble rates.

 

 

http://linemakers.sportingnews.com/nfl/2015-01-27/patriots-deflate-gate-fumble-rate-research-tom-brady-nfl-rule-change-game-balls

 

have you read this

 

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/

[GoPats]

And that ^^^ is largely irrelevant, because at halftime, it was not the Colts' footballs that were out of compliance.

 

Yes, you're right. But in your eagerness to make a point, you missed mine.

[GoPats]

I know more than MIT professors. Those who can't do, teach.

 

LOL, I don't think that time-tested adage really applies when you're talking about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 

[bababooey]

LOL, I don't think that time-tested adage really applies when you're talking about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 

I still know more than MIT professors.

[dw49]

The verb "to gauge" literally means "to estimate".

  

Lord ... lord .. lord how thick .

[Bad Morty]

Lord ... lord .. lord how thick .

 

aww...personal insults? I'm honored that my post on an internet forum bothered you that much.

[GoPats]

I still know more than MIT professors.

 

Great! You must be "wicked smaht." 

[HoggHannah]

So thick, yet so true:

 

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 52m52 minutes ago

Have officials ever measured football air pressure in a game before the AFCCG? Goodell: "I don't know."

 

 

[bababooey]

Great! You must be "wicked smaht." 

Oh God I went to school in NE for my undergrad and masters and that accent makes me throw up in my mouth no offense.

[bababooey]

 

So thick, yet so true:

 

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 52m52 minutes ago

Have officials ever measured football air pressure in a game before the AFCCG? Goodell: "I don't know."

 

 

 

False, the question asked by Mike Reiss asked if footballs have ever been measured at halftime of a game before this past weekend to which he said he was unsure. Facts only, please

[dw49]

 

So thick, yet so true:

 

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 52m52 minutes ago

Have officials ever measured football air pressure in a game before the AFCCG? Goodell: "I don't know."

 

 

 

 

 

Oh.. my aching butt. You people are amazing. Refs squeezing balls to test the inflation , the NFL sating the protocol is to test with a gauge a little before game time. The NFL and the officials stating it (protocol ) was properly followed ... and now you come up with this piece of total garbage. Incredible..

[bababooey]

Oh.. my aching butt. You people are amazing. Refs squeezing balls to test the inflation , the NFL sating the protocol is to test with a gauge a little before game time. The NFL and the officials stating it (protocol ) was properly followed ... and now you come up with this piece of total garbage. Incredible..

I don't blame them for posting a transcript of the tweet but consider the source of the tweet and do a little research. Anyone who listened to the press conference heard Mike Reiss's question and there was no way to misconstrue what was asked or the response. I would unfollow Jeff Howe (whoever that is) because of it.

[dw49]

I don't blame them for posting a transcript of the tweet but consider the source of the tweet and do a little research. Anyone who listened to the press conference heard Mike Reiss's question and there was no way to misconstrue what was asked or the response. I would unfollow Jeff Howe (whoever that is) because of it.

 

 

Yeah I blame them as it's totally absurd to keep insisting these officials squeezed footballs to measure the PSI. If that were the case the investigation would have been over the second that was determined. No way an official would lie about that either as it would no doubt come out in the end that this was the practice . They would just HAVE to say something like "we've been goofing up on this for a long time as we never really thought it was an issue."   

[Superman]

Yes, you're right. But in your eagerness to make a point, you missed mine.

 

I'm pretty sure I get your point. The Colts' footballs lost pressure.

 

Yet, they were still compliant.