Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[amfootball]

You are spinning again

Bill cares about every tiny detail that might impact the game.  I mean EVERY single detail.  Nobody does anything without him knowing about it.  He's not buyable as an innocent bystander. AT ALL

 

It is 100% on him

 

What is this Brady/Manning fight for control you reference?

 

And you do not play with what the league tells you because the league tells you what the PSI of the ball should be.

How Brady likes his balls has nothing to do with Bill. Every QB likes the ball different. No HC would control the prepping of the ball. Every QB interviewed has confirmed this.

 

Manning and Brady fought a few years ago for Qbs to have the ability to prep balls prior to the game vs having to use balls fresh out of the box as they are slick and slippery. Eli preps his balls for months. Likes them really broken in. That was against the rules prior to the change that was spear headed by Brady and Manning.

 

Bill is saying you play the game with what is approved by the league. He also said that the game balls Brady preps are given to the refs at the lowest point of the psi scale and moving forward he would make sure they are inflated more because balls lose air in the game.

 

Brady is due to speak at 4 and explain why all the balls were under inflated ...

[Cynjin]

Not once did I say that.. I said the laws of physics debunk the advantage angle that people are running wit and could arguably be considered a disadvantage.

It comes down to personal preference, all QBS are different in what they like, which just further supports how much this has gone off the rails

I know you didn't say that, my comment was purely tongue in cheek. All but one of the NFL QBs that I have heard talk about said that having and under-inflated football is an advantage in poor weather conditions, easier to throw, easier to catch, and easier to grip.

Side note: Where does the phrase tongue in cheek come from anyway?

[jvan1973]

How Brady likes his balls has nothing to do with Bill. Every QB likes the ball different. No HC would control the prepping of the ball. Every QB interviewed has confirmed this.

Manning and Brady fought a few years ago for Qbs to have the ability to prep balls prior to the game vs having to use balls fresh out of the box as they are slick and slippery. Eli preps his balls for months. Likes them really broken in. That was against the rules prior to the change that was spear headed by Brady and Manning.

Bill is saying you play the game with what is approved by the league. He also said that the game balls Brady preps are given to the refs at the lowest point of the psi scale and moving forward he would make sure they are inflated more because balls lose air in the game.

Brady is due to speak at 4 and explain why all the balls were under inflated ...

ball prep happens during the week before the game, not after the balls have gone through pregame inspection

apples to hammers comparison

and the ball can't lose 2 psi in one half of football when its 40 degrees outside

[Nadine]

Yea those poor, classy Seahawks.. the Seahawks that have more PED violations than anyone, which is monumental levels of cheating. With trash talking players that grab their croch every time they score, lead by the righteous Pete Carroll!

What an upstanding group of gentleman lol

And yet, my sympathy goes to them

[JerodMayo51]

In the perspectives outside of "PatsNation", that's two major cheating scandals that affected three superbowl victories and now possibly one more...

so you're really running with this unfair advantage that won them the game angle, that's amazing..

I'll give you credit for cobsistency.. physics be damned, burn the Pats at the stake!

I'd be embarassed to try and draw attention away from the fact that Colts got completely outmatched by a vastly superior opponent, with the same convincing result as the last 3 times they played before that.

Ignoring logic and blowing it epicly out of proportion just to justify to yourself in your own mind that the Colts really are the better team, and if not for 1 psi of air pressure in a football, things would have been different!

Let's conveniently ignore the fact that the balls were inflated to regulation at half time and the Patriots continued to pound the Colts to dust, 28-0.

TY Hilton = 1 catch

Reggie Wayne = 0 catches

Moncrief = 0 catches

Nah it couldn't have been the Colts complete lack of effectiveness on offense, combined with tthe Patriots physical running game that was the reason they were blown out, it's those 11 psi footballs!

Just wow.

[amfootball]

ball prep happens during the week before the game, not after the balls have gone through pregame inspection

apples to hammers comparison

Actually it can happen months before like with Eli. There is no rule on the prep. And all of it is controlled by the QB.

[jvan1973]

Actually it can happen months before like with Eli. There is no rule on the prep. And all of it is controlled by the QB.

but not after inspection is the point.

[The Old Crow]

You are not thinking logically here. Why would Bill order to the balls to be deflated without Brady's consent? Why would Bill care how Brady likes his balls in the first place? This prepping of the game balls is 100 percent that QB. Both Brady and Manning fought for this type of control several years ago. Practice balls are different. Bill runs the practices. He is preparing the team. Game balls have nothing to do with him. Like he said, we play with what the league tells us.

My thinking is both would have discussed it and Bill would certainly want a football that Brady was comfortable with. The problem with this whole thing was did he do it against the Ravens when the game was close, and it was cold ? Did they do it earlier in the season to get a first round bye, and home field ? That is what we don't know, and why it has to be investigated. In a close game, in cold conditions, grip on a football is everything. Check out the weather and playing conditions in the 1964 NFL Championship game in Cleveland. Losing 27-0, the Colts and Unitas could have altered things if John could have gotten a better grip on the football. Incidentally, it was 0-0 in that game at halftime.

[ruksak]

How Brady likes his balls has nothing to do with Bill. Every QB likes the ball different. No HC would control the prepping of the ball. Every QB interviewed has confirmed this.

 

Manning and Brady fought a few years ago for Qbs to have the ability to prep balls prior to the game vs having to use balls fresh out of the box as they are slick and slippery. Eli preps his balls for months. Likes them really broken in. That was against the rules prior to the change that was spear headed by Brady and Manning.

 

Bill is saying you play the game with what is approved by the league. He also said that the game balls Brady preps are given to the refs at the lowest point of the psi scale and moving forward he would make sure they are inflated more because balls lose air in the game.

 

Brady is due to speak at 4 and explain why all the balls were under inflated ...

The problematic issue here is that Tom already said he didn't have any knowledge about this via an interview where he laughed at the very idea of this. 

 

What this means is; If Tom admits what he did in regard to the balls, he admits to lying after the fact. This complicates matters and goes directly back to my earlier comments about how dishonesty compounds the punitive side of this. 

 

Your QB may be suspended next week, depending on what has transpired behind the scenes in regard to NFL investigators and what has been said between the parties involved. 

[JerodMayo51]

This has already been proven not to be the case by scientists. You and your friend have no idea what you are talking about.

Temperature needs to be in absolute scale (i.e. Rankine or Kelvin)

Lol.. I'll admit I'm not much of a scientist, but my friend went to an ivy league school for chemical engineering and works in a lab making cancer treatment medication..

He absolutely knows what he's talking about, most assuredly more than you.

[DoubleE Colt]

I'm pretty sure Brady isn't coming out with an explanation or taking responsibility! If he does then more questions need to be asked in light of his earlier comments on situation.

[Nadine]

How Brady likes his balls has nothing to do with Bill. Every QB likes the ball different. No HC would control the prepping of the ball. Every QB interviewed has confirmed this.

 

Manning and Brady fought a few years ago for Qbs to have the ability to prep balls prior to the game vs having to use balls fresh out of the box as they are slick and slippery. Eli preps his balls for months. Likes them really broken in. That was against the rules prior to the change that was spear headed by Brady and Manning.

 

Bill is saying you play the game with what is approved by the league. He also said that the game balls Brady preps are given to the refs at the lowest point of the psi scale and moving forward he would make sure they are inflated more because balls lose air in the game.

 

Brady is due to speak at 4 and explain why all the balls were under inflated ...

 

Upfront and above board lobbying for change is appropriate.  Sneaking to do something not within the rules is not

 

The pats did not play with what was approved by the league and there is no doubt that Bill knew it.

 

I expect Brady will throw himself on the knife.  Him doing so will not convince me of Bills innocence.  No matter how hard you spin it, this organization is lying.  And Pat fans are lapping it up.

 

Sorry, this whole thing really bothers me.  

[bababooey]

so you're really running with this unfair advantage that won them the game angle, that's amazing..

I'll give you credit for cobsistency.. physics be damned, burn the Pats at the stake!

I'd be embarassed to try and draw attention away from the fact that Colts got completely outmatched by a vastly superior opponent, with the same convincing result as the last 3 times they played before that.

Ignoring logic and blowing it epicly out of proportion just to justify to yourself in your own mind that the Colts really are the better team, and if not for 1 psi of air pressure in a football, things would have been different!

Let's conveniently ignore the fact that the balls were inflated to regulation at half time and the Patriots continued to pound the Colts to dust, 28-0.

TY Hilton = 1 catch

Reggie Wayne = 0 catches

Moncrief = 0 catches

Nah it couldn't have been the Colts complete lack of effectiveness on offense, combined with tthe Patriots physical running game that was the reason they were blown out, it's those 11 psi footballs!

Just wow.

#patsfanexcusebingo

 

"we scored 28 points in the second half"

"everybody does it"

"the weather affected it"

 

Again, nobody is debating the score of the game. It's the fact it's cheating, it's a second offense, and it's a championship legacy that is out the window.

[jvan1973]

Lol.. I'll admit I'm not much of a scientist, but my friend went to an ivy league school for chemical engineering and works in a lab making cancer treatment medication..

He absolutely knows what he's talking about, most assuredly more than you.

its already been discussed by experts on many platforms. the balls couldn't lose 2 psi in an hour and a half on 40 degree temps. your friend is,wrong

[ruksak]

so you're really running with this unfair advantage that won them the game angle, that's amazing..

 

I realize this comment wasn't aimed at me, but I gotta say; This seemingly nominal advantage granted by manipulating the ball secretly after inspection may not have decided the Colts game, but one could certainly make a case that it put them there in that game in the first place. They did just pull off a razors edge double comeback divisional game that if they had lost, it's the Ravens who come here to play for the SB, and we whipped them silly last time they did that.

[basspapaw]

You don't think the Pats completely bullying the Colts and dominating in all 3 phases of the game in the biggest blowout in AFCCG history was legitimate?

Wow. Your very own player Dwayne Allen disagrees, because he knows how embarrassing it would be to hide behind this overblown story as an excuse for being thoroughly dominated on the field by a superior opponent.

The Colts didn't deserve to go to the SB. If you want to play for a SB championship, you have to play better... which I have no doubt the Colts are headed in that direction, Luck is a top QB in the league at such a young age... but they didn't come close to getting it done on Sunday and the better team advanced to represent the AFC in the SB

I 'm tired of this everyone says that it didnt change the outcome ,I think that is bull, if both teams were using balls that were easier to catch maybe herron catchs both the balls he dropped and the colts are not playing from behind, On the other side maybe they drop a few or they are tipped and the colts have a couple of pick 6s It for sure changed the outcome ,are you blind, If its easier for someone to do there job because he has better tools than for sure he an advantage.

[Narcosys]

Bill is saying you play the game with what is approved by the league. He also said that the game balls Brady preps are given to the refs at the lowest point of the psi scale and moving forward he would make sure they are inflated more because balls lose air in the game.

Please don't tell me you believe this. Cause if you do I have to ask if you've every owned a football and played in a game with it. I don't have the most elite basks but I try to buy the ones that the nfl uses. Every ball I have ever had, had not lost pressure, let alone a pound or more. It takes much longer than an hour for a bask to lose that much pressure. It takes weeks. I store my balls in my house and take them out to play even in cold weather. I have a pressure gauge I use, and they don't lose pressure like that. That is the dumbest excuse people are using right now. Especially since 11 of then lost the exact same weight. Sorry, not coincidence.

[bababooey]

Brady is going to take blame and then just say he didn't know the rule, slap on the wrist.

[ruksak]

I'm pretty sure Brady isn't coming out with an explanation or taking responsibility! If he does then more questions need to be asked in light of his earlier comments on situation.

I dunno, if he does that, if he denies, now we're talking about the entire Patriots organization taking a serious hit. He better step up and do the right thing, or else this quagmire is gonna get real sticky. 

[JerodMayo51]

I haven't gotten, in my mind to what the punishment should be. But I sure wanted them to come clean and for the NFL to take a stand on this type of sleeziness........much the way they have done with domestic violence and DWI.

I am completely dismayed and disappointed that neither of those things are happening.

I know you are happy that your org skates, and that bothers me as well. Not gonna lie

I don't like them skating the rules, because as fans we have to constantly hear about it if they do..

But this is all 100% speculation right now, they haven't released details of their findings but in the social media court of public overreaction and opinion, they're guilty and people are already trying to line up a punishment that far exceeds the violation in question.

Comparing this to domestic violence, DUI, PEDs and other serious issues is so far off the mark I don't even know where to begin.

[ruksak]

Brady is going to take blame and then just say he didn't know the rule, slap on the wrist.

That's not plausible....a key component in plausible deniability is that your denial is plausible. 

 

For this to be done, which it seems it has been done not just in one game, but many, maybe for years, it would have to be done in confidence or we're having this discussion a LONG time ago. It being done in secret suggests a blatant circumvention of the rules. 

 

I'm going the Mythbusters route and slapping an "Implausible" on that tactic. It wouldn't work. It will work for BB here, but not Tom. This situation has quickly reached a point where a stop-gap fallguy (sacrificial lamb etc) is required to bring closure. 

[bababooey]

I don't like them skating the rules, because as fans we have to constantly hear about it if they do..

But this is all 100% speculation right now, they haven't released details of their findings but in the social media court of public overreaction and opinion, they're guilty and people are already trying to line up a punishment that far exceeds the violation in question.

Comparing this to domestic violence, DUI, PEDs and other serious issues is so far off the mark I don't even know where to begin.

Sort of, DUI and Domestic Violence is an off the field issue. PED's, videotaping signals and walkthroughs, and deflating footballs damage the integrity of the game. The fact it's a second offense for this team and occurred in a championship game is why there is an "overreaction".

[amfootball]

The problematic issue here is that Tom already said he didn't have any knowledge about this via an interview where he laughed at the very idea of this. 

 

What this means is; If Tom admits what he did in regard to the balls, he admits to lying after the fact. This complicates matters and goes directly back to my earlier comments about how dishonesty compounds the punitive side of this. 

 

Your QB may be suspended next week, depending on what has transpired behind the scenes in regard to NFL investigators and what has been said between the parties involved. 

Except he might have thought what he did was fine given the conditions. The ball is only inflated to the minimum so they are going to lose air. We will see what he says. I don't think he was lying when he said he has no knowledge which is also why I don't think it was intentionally done. It was for better grip in bad weather conditions.

 

No way they suspend him for the SB or for any game. Fine maybe for ignorance but that is it.

[JerodMayo51]

something that has zero impact on performance is worse?

1 psi does not have an effect on Performance. It's nearly immeasurable the difference between 12.5 and 11 psi.

This angle is insanely exaggerated and misinformed. They didn't suspend Tomlin when he tried to trip a return man from the sideline, they certainly aren't going to suspend or rain down some draconian punishment for something as small as this, IF it's even proven that the Pats were intentionally trying to alter the balls

[Dustin]

Lol.. I'll admit I'm not much of a scientist, but my friend went to an ivy league school for chemical engineering and works in a lab making cancer treatment medication..

He absolutely knows what he's talking about, most assuredly more than you.

 

He's wrong. Tell him I said that. His math is bad. 

[ricker182]

Brady is going to take blame and then just say he didn't know the rule, slap on the wrist.

I very much doubt he takes the blame.

They're going to deny deny deny.

They have consultants telling them what to say.

[ruksak]

Except he might have thought what he did was fine given the conditions. The ball is only inflated to the minimum so they are going to lose air. We will see what he says. I don't think he was lying when he said he has no knowledge which is also why I don't think it was intentionally done. It was for better grip in bad weather conditions.

 

No way they suspend him for the SB or for any game. Fine maybe for ignorance but that is it.

It depends on factors we aren't privy to yet. Namely; What does the NFL know about week 11? That game was played indoors at a comfortable temp. Plausible deniability only functions if the deniability is plausible. 

[bababooey]

I very much doubt he takes the blame.

They're going to deny deny deny.

They have consultants telling them what to say.

Would love someone to ask him why he first called the claim ridiculous and now all eyes are pointed solely at him.

[JerodMayo51]

Why do certain people keep wanting to put the blame on the Colts...???

with statements like: What was he supposed to do, the Colts blew the whistle... give me a break.

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

[Nadine]

I don't like them skating the rules, because as fans we have to constantly hear about it if they do..

But this is all 100% speculation right now, they haven't released details of their findings but in the social media court of public overreaction and opinion, they're guilty and people are already trying to line up a punishment that far exceeds the violation in question.

Comparing this to domestic violence, DUI, PEDs and other serious issues is so far off the mark I don't even know where to begin.

I hear you on waiting till the facts are in

 

But the comparison to statement penalties on behavior off the field as compared to cheating on the actual rules of football is fair.  Maintaining the integrity of the game is really important.  Should be anyway.

[amfootball]

It depends on factors we aren't privy to yet. Namely; What does the NFL know about week 11? That game was played indoors at a comfortable temp. Plausible deniability only functions if the deniability is plausible. 

True but Bill never mentioned that the league has mentioned ball inflation to him prior to Monday. So if the Colts had an issue in week 11 the Pats were never informed from the league. So I think Nov game is irrelevant.

 

What Brady says fascinates me ... I have no idea. Wish it was now. 4:00 is killing me!

[JerodMayo51]

Common sense rules out the weather factor. Temperatures would have to be in the negatives for them to lose 2 PSI.

If the balls were filled with warm/hot air at room temperature then they could absolutely lose 1-2 psi in a relatively sshort period of time in 50 degree, rainy weather

[ricker182]

Would love someone to ask him why he first called the claim ridiculous and now all eyes are pointed solely at him.

What is he supposed to say, though? I cheated?

I'm not defending him, but I think you're going to be disappointed if you think anyone admits to anything.

Not admitting leaves doubt in people's minds. Admitting leaves no doubt.

Cheaters would never admit to cheating because then they can never cheat again and if they do admit to cheating then they're dumb.

[bababooey]

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

I'll take all the other owners that are happy considering they get crap like "tampering" charges for an owner saying he wish his incompetent GM would have gotten one of his ex players back. The buck needed to stop here. If a couple owners are livid at the Colts? Guess what, we will beat them too for the next 10 years, at least we can clean up the NFL in the process.

 

And the source regarding most owners being happy: Jay Glazer, the guy that broke Spygate.

[ricker182]

If the balls were filled with warm/hot air at room temperature then they could absolutely lose 1-2 psi in a relatively sshort period of time in 50 degree, rainy weather

Okay, buddy.

[Nadine]

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

I don't know that Irsay has general disdain for the Patriots.  But I can tell you that if he does.....he is certainly not alone, particularly not now.

 

Yes please do link to the teams that are livid

[jvan1973]

If the balls were filled with warm/hot air at room temperature then they could absolutely lose 1-2 psi in a relatively sshort period of time in 50 degree, rainy weather

no they couldn't, been talked about several times on tv and radio

[JerodMayo51]

So the Pats scored 17 points with deflated balls, then scored 28 points after the refs provided the game spec balls.... big deal. LOL!

Like I said, I'm glad the refs got those defective balls oUT of there. The Pats were playing with a handicap and once it was corrected, they outscored them 28-0.

[amfootball]

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

Yes. If what Brady and Manning fought for in terms of ball prep is revoked, all the QBs will be irate.

[bababooey]

Like I said, I'm glad the refs got those defective balls oUT of there. The Pats were playing with a handicap and once it was corrected, they outscored them 28-0.

THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE.