Never in my life (Manziel)

[Qwiz]

You do if you're an undersized quarterback trying to make it in the league. That's what Russell Wilson did.

Wilson is like Brady/Manning when it comes to following football like a religion, but he's been that way since college. He didn't come into the league thinking he had to go overboard just because he is shorter.

[Qwiz]

He is being paid millions. At the very least show up on time. He doesn't have the work ethic to make it. He isn't very fast and doesn't have a strong arm. The only way for him to become successful is to work harder than everyone else.

I think the strong arm theory was debunked long ago at his pro day. He does need to work harder but this idea that he has to become an adult and face of the franchise overnight isn't right.

[Colts_Fan12]

What are these stupid traits?

you've been discussing them with jvan this whole thread won't grow up life is just a big party to him won't study or try to improve in an offense he's not very good at

[Colts_Fan12]

Delete

[Colts_Fan12]

You did. You wrote:

"The best QB is Teddy Bridgewater I don't care what he did at his pro day he is still the best"

You nailed it! The Browns spent $100,000 on a study of the quarterbacks in this draft. The study found that Bridgewater was most likely to succeed. The Browns chose to go with Manziel. Reports are that the GM was about to select Bridgewater but the owner told him to select Manziel instead. It seems like a lot of the owners, including Jerry Jones, wanted Manziel. Owners should stay out of football personnel decisions.

It sucks to cause the stupid move the owner pulled could lose him his job. We all know what happens when a team doesn't have a QB coaches and GMs get canned.

[jvan1973]

I think the strong arm theory was debunked long ago at his pro day. He does need to work harder but this idea that he has to become an adult and face of the franchise overnight isn't right.

No, it wasn't debunked. Did you watch him throw the ball in the two historically terrible outings he had this year?

[NFLfan]

I think the strong arm theory was debunked long ago at his pro day. He does need to work harder but this idea that he has to become an adult and face of the franchise overnight isn't right.

I hear you but as you know, there is not much patience in football. He does have "to become an adult" overnight. Geno has shown much more than Manziel has. No one thinks Geno should be a starter.

I hope Manziel proves you right, as the Browns won't be waiting too long for him to grow up and become an adult.

[Qwiz]

you've been discussing them with jvan this whole thread won't grow up life is just a big party to him won't study or try to improve in an offense he's not very good at

Those aren't stupid traits. That's typical young adult behavior. Just last night I had drinks even though I know I have work today. Why did I do it? It's New Year's. Granted I'm not an NFL QB but you get the gist. He may need to improve on some things going forward no doubt.

[Qwiz]

No, it wasn't debunked. Did you watch him throw the ball in the two historically terrible outings he had this year?

Yeah, he hung the ball in the air after getting bumrushed all day. Even the guy in your avatar starts making bad decisions once he gets hit two or three times. The Super Bowl from last year is one example.

[Qwiz]

I hear you but as you know, there is not much patience in football. He does have "to become an adult" overnight. Geno has shown much more than Manziel has. No one thinks Geno should be a starter.

I hope Manziel proves you right, as the Browns won't be waiting too long for him to grow up and become an adult.

True, there's no patience, but the Browns aren't abandoning a guy they traded up to get in the first round of the Draft. Geno has a larger sample size but he is terrible and many analysts predicted he would be. There was a lot more confidence in what Johnny could do at the NFL level.

[dw49]

I think the strong arm theory was debunked long ago at his pro day. He does need to work harder but this idea that he has to become an adult and face of the franchise overnight isn't right.

 

 

I think the issue is the Browns expected him to "be an adult " when he accepted 8.2 mill fully guaranteed Do you really think when Cleveland uses a first rounder and guarantees all 4 years of his contract , he's not expected to act like an adult ? This is a character flaw .. no ? 

 

 

Sorry didn't see this was already commented on....

[jvan1973]

True, there's no patience, but the Browns aren't abandoning a guy they traded up to get in the first round of the Draft. Geno has a larger sample size but he is terrible and many analysts predicted he would be. There was a lot more confidence in what Johnny could do at the NFL level.

There were just many analyst saying johnny would be a bust. As bad as geno has been, he hasn't had a game as poor as manziels nightmare games

[Qwiz]

I think the issue is the Browns expected him to "be an adult " when he accepted 8.2 mill fully guaranteed Do you really think when Cleveland uses a first rounder and guarantees all 4 years of his contract , he's not expected to act like an adult ? This is a character flaw .. no ?

Sorry didn't see this was already commented on....

The Browns knew full well what they were getting when they drafted Manziel. I'm sure they did their homework on the guy. Now all they need to do is be patient and cater the offense to him.

[Qwiz]

There were just many analyst saying johnny would be a bust. As bad as geno has been, he hasn't had a game as poor as manziels nightmare games

You must not watch many Jets games. I would look up some stats or games to support my argument but I'm at work, it'd be too much effort. John Manziel was a rookie QB making his first two starts. Even Pey..wait why am I saying this again. I refuse to go in circles lol.

[jvan1973]

You must not watch many Jets games. I would look up some stats or games to support my argument but I'm at work, it'd be too much effort. John Manziel was a rookie QB making his first two starts. Even Pey..wait why am I saying this again. I refuse to go in circles lol.

Please find a game in mannings career where he had a qb rating of 1

[Qwiz]

Please find a game in mannings career where he had a qb rating of 1

Well he had one game where he threw two picks and had a rating of 47. But what does rating have to do with anything? Didn't Geno Smith just have a perfect QB rating? Do you think he's a Hall of Famer now? Point is every QB has bad games during a rookie season.

[jvan1973]

Well he had one game where he threw two picks and had a rating of 47. But what does rating have to do with anything? Didn't Geno Smith just have a perfect QB rating? Do you think he's a Hall of Famer now? Point is every QB has bad games during a rookie season.

Geno is terrible. But he is better than John, and it isn't close

[dw49]

The Browns knew full well what they were getting when they drafted Manziel. I'm sure they did their homework on the guy. Now all they need to do is be patient and cater the offense to him.

 

 

Like the Chargers did their homework on Ryan Leaf ? Or the Raiders on Demarcus Russell ? You don't think it's possible that Cleveland made a mistake on his work ethic - character ? Happens all the time .. no ? All they need to do is be patient ? I'm sure that they are more than a little worried about their QB position that what you have above. They are already talking about the possibility of drafting another QB in the 1st this year. They have 2 first round picks again

[Qwiz]

Geno is terrible. But he is better than John, and it isn't close

Nah. I don't think so anyway.

[Qwiz]

Like the Chargers did their homework on Ryan Leaf ? Or the Raiders on Demarcus Russell ? You don't think it's possible that Cleveland made a mistake on his work ethic - character ? Happens all the time .. no ? All they need to do is be patient ? I'm sure that they are more than a little worried about their QB position that what you have above. They are already talking about the possibility of drafting another QB in the 1st this year. They have 2 first round picks again

What I meant by the homework comment is that they knew what could potentially happen. They know about the phenomenon that is Johnny Manziel. They also knew before the Draft that they had a guy who had played pretty well for them before getting hurt....and they drafted Manziel anyway. And if they use another first round pick on a QB in consecutive years when there are other issues that need to be addressed.....well incompetence usually leads to people getting fired.

[jvan1973]

Nah. I don't think so anyway.

I guess you didn't watch this game. Let me know when Johnny has a stat line like this.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014122805/2014/REG17/jets@dolphins

[Qwiz]

I guess you didn't watch this game. Let me know when Johnny has a stat line like this.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014122805/2014/REG17/jets@dolphins

I will. It only took Geno how many horrid games/benchings before this happened...?

[jvan1973]

I will. It only took Geno how many horrid games/benchings before this happened...?

As bad as geno has been, he hasn't had as bad of a game as manziel did. At least he bothered to learn the playbook

[dw49]

What I meant by the homework comment is that they knew what could potentially happen. They know about the phenomenon that is Johnny Manziel. They also knew before the Draft that they had a guy who had played pretty well for them before getting hurt....and they drafted Manziel anyway. And if they use another first round pick on a QB in consecutive years when there are other issues that need to be addressed.....well incompetence usually leads to people getting fired.

 

QB's bust all the time. If they feel he was a mistake and there's a guy they like a lot in round 1 , then what the heck ... Anyway thus far there is not anything for Cleveland to be happy with. Didn't learn the offense and immature. On the field , just as bad. Floated balls around, made terrible decisions and looked clueless trying to run the offense from the pocket. Reminds me a bit of the RG3 situation. Can he ever really adjust to the pro game ? Way too early to say no but the early signs are pretty bad. 

[NFLfan]

True, there's no patience, but the Browns aren't abandoning a guy they traded up to get in the first round of the Draft. Geno has a larger sample size but he is terrible and many analysts predicted he would be. There was a lot more confidence in what Johnny could do at the NFL level.

I watched at least half of Geno Smith's games last year. He played much better in his first two games than Manziel did in his. (I saw Manziel's 1st game.) Geno threw for over 250 yards in his first game. Geno stayed in the pocket more and threw some nice passes. He also ran better than Manziel did. Smith is not a smart player and makes a lot of mistakes, but he has physical talent.

Here is an excerpt from an article about his first game:

"In his regular-season debut, Smith -- who missed crucial preseason time due to injury -- completed 24-of-38 passes for 256 yards, a touchdown, an interception and a lost fumble. He had a couple of plays to tight end Kellen Winslow, including a seven-yard touchdown near the end of the first half, and played pretty well overall despite near-constant pressure between the guards."

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/09/08/geno-smith-new-york-jets-debut-tampa-bay-buccaneers

(I am not trying to give you a hard time. That's not my way. )

[csmopar]

Tim Tebow went in the first round too....

So did Ryan Leaf...number 2 in fact.

[NFLfan]

QB's bust all the time. If they feel he was a mistake and there's a guy they like a lot in round 1 , then what the heck ... Anyway thus far there is not anything for Cleveland to be happy with. Didn't learn the offense and immature. On the field , just as bad. Floated balls around, made terrible decisions and looked clueless trying to run the offense from the pocket. Reminds me a bit of the RG3 situation. Can he ever really adjust to the pro game ? Way too early to say no but the early signs are pretty bad.

You cannot compare Manziel and RG3. Griffin had one of the best seasons for a rookie quarterback. He played most of the season, completing about 65% of his passes. Manziel looked like he had never played football before.

He may now be a bust but RG3 had a great rookie season.

(BTW, are you still a fan of Syndergaard?)

[dw49]

You cannot compare Manziel and RG3. Griffin had one of the best seasons for a rookie quarterback. He played most of the season, completing about 65% of his passes. Manziel looked like he had never played football before.

He may now be a bust but RG3 had a great rookie season.

(BTW, are you still a fan of Syndergaard?)

 

 

RG3 ran an offense that you just can't use anymore in the NFL . IMO he now has to prove he can play from the pocket ... no ? 

 

He's on both my fantasy teams as a "farm player." I need him to be good but that was a bad season last year at Las Vegas. Maybe it's the unfriendly air for pitchers in vegas .. dunno. They talked about maybe trading him. Naturally the team mentioned was Colorado . LOL there .. frying pan to the fire.

[NFLfan]

RG3 ran an offense that you just can't use anymore in the NFL . IMO he now has to prove he can play from the pocket ... no ?

He's on both my fantasy teams as a "farm player." I need him to be good but that was a bad season last year at Las Vegas. Maybe it's the unfriendly air for pitchers in vegas .. dunno. They talked about maybe trading him. Naturally the team mentioned was Colorado . LOL there .. frying pan to the fire.

Lol. I heard all the pitchers in Las Vegas did not perform as well as they should have. I'd like my team to call him up. We have a lot of young pitchers (Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler) which has me looking forward to the upcoming MLB season.

Back to football...I think RG3 can play much better but he has to be open to playing in the pocket. Like Manziel he relies on his legs too much but I think he has more talent to play in the NFL than Manziel.

[dw49]

Lol. I heard all the pitchers in Las Vegas did not perform as well as they should have. I'd like my team to call him up. We have a lot of young pitchers (Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler) which has me looking forward to the upcoming MLB season.

Back to football...I think RG3 can play much better but he has to be open to playing in the pocket. Like Manziel he relies on his legs too much but I think he has more talent to play in the NFL than Manziel.

  

 

No doubt a better arm the Manziel.

[jvan1973]

No doubt a better arm the Manziel.

And much faster as well

[Gavin]

Manziel is jitterbug fast, Short area speed but nowhere near the long distance speed of Griffin, That's how I see it

[ColtsBTM12]

I don't think he has to live up to the hype. If players always lived up to the hype Andrew and Peyton would have seven SB wins between them, Brady would have none, and Jadeveon Clowney would have 25 sacks and three fumble returns this year. All Johnny has to do is find his own way and be successful the way he wants to be.

 Andrew has lived up to his hype, he's gone 11-5 in each of his first 3 seasons after taking over for a 2-14 team, and he's done it with virtually no O-line or running game. Peyton Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time and a future HOFer and no one was saying Clowney had to get 25 sacks as a rookie, come on. And I understand that not everyone is great their rookie year but you would expect that being a first round pick Manziel would have been able to beat out a career backup for the starting job and at least show some signs of promise in the little time he did get on the field, but he didn't.

[Qwiz]

As bad as geno has been, he hasn't had as bad of a game as manziel did. At least he bothered to learn the playbook

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-geno-smith-pulled-fast-jets-article-1.1970991

Yeah, he's much worse than Johnny. Crucify him instead.

[Qwiz]

QB's bust all the time. If they feel he was a mistake and there's a guy they like a lot in round 1 , then what the heck ... Anyway thus far there is not anything for Cleveland to be happy with. Didn't learn the offense and immature. On the field , just as bad. Floated balls around, made terrible decisions and looked clueless trying to run the offense from the pocket. Reminds me a bit of the RG3 situation. Can he ever really adjust to the pro game ? Way too early to say no but the early signs are pretty bad. 

Definitely way too early to say he can't adjust. I can pull two games from each of the good or even elite quarterbacks this season and point out things that they did completely wrong and where they began to abandon mechanics and make bad decisions due to bad o-line play or offensive inability to function. Unfortunately for Manziel, these sorts of games came in his first two starts. If he didn't have fun and throw parties, then no one would beat an eyelash at his two bad starts. All we can do is sit and wait to see if he does get better next season and beyond.

[Qwiz]

I watched at least half of Geno Smith's games last year. He played much better in his first two games than Manziel did in his. (I saw Manziel's 1st game.) Geno threw for over 250 yards in his first game. Geno stayed in the pocket more and threw some nice passes. He also ran better than Manziel did. Smith is not a smart player and makes a lot of mistakes, but he has physical talent.

Here is an excerpt from an article about his first game:

"In his regular-season debut, Smith -- who missed crucial preseason time due to injury -- completed 24-of-38 passes for 256 yards, a touchdown, an interception and a lost fumble. He had a couple of plays to tight end Kellen Winslow, including a seven-yard touchdown near the end of the first half, and played pretty well overall despite near-constant pressure between the guards."

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/09/08/geno-smith-new-york-jets-debut-tampa-bay-buccaneers

(I am not trying to give you a hard time. That's not my way. )

Well, he did better than Johnny his first two games. But first two games a career does not make I know you aren't trying to give me a hard time, NF, just supporting your argument. I'll just point out though that in his rookie year Geno actually had two games worse than Manziel-he threw for completion percentages of 34.8 and several in the 40s, all worse than what Johnny had in two games. In many of those games he threw no touchdowns and multiple INTs...Manziel has only thrown two in one game and Smith threw at least three twice in his rookie year without TDs. So looking at small sample sizes, yes, he did have worse games than Johnny did when he was a rookie. There's still hope for these young guys though...but I am more inclined to think Johnny will be successful though lol.

[Qwiz]

 Andrew has lived up to his hype, he's gone 11-5 in each of his first 3 seasons after taking over for a 2-14 team, and he's done it with virtually no O-line or running game. Peyton Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time and a future HOFer and no one was saying Clowney had to get 25 sacks as a rookie, come on. And I understand that not everyone is great their rookie year but you would expect that being a first round pick Manziel would have been able to beat out a career backup for the starting job and at least show some signs of promise in the little time he did get on the field, but he didn't.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------    --------------------

That's my point flying right over your head. Clearly I was exaggerating about the seven Super Bowls and 25 sacks, I'm not taking anything away from those guys, I'm just making a point that you can have expectations but things don't always go that way, and players like Andrew, J.D., and Manning were hyped up A LOT. There's no denying that but that's neither here nor there, we are getting away from the real discussion here. He did beat out a career back-up (who was no longer a back-up because, well, he was starting by the time Manziel took the job from him). He didn't show promise but he played two games and got hurt in both.

[Happy2BeHere]

It's WAY too early to call Manziel a bust for sure. I mean all indications are heading that way but the sample size is so small you can't make a call on it. NO ONE can make a call on it.

 

Besides...I thought everyone loved JOHNNY FOOTBALL. I guess not?

 

Well, he whom sets his own tone will create his own future. No doubt if the kid doesn't change his work ethic and "respect" for the game he'll be creating his own future right out of football.

[Happy2BeHere]

As bad as geno has been, he hasn't had as bad of a game as manziel did. At least he bothered to learn the playbook

Which playbook did he learn? I think he got ahold of the wrong playbook...clearly he was looking at the opposing defenses playbooks week in and week out throwing to the defenses best receivers 

[ColtsBTM12]

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That's my point flying right over your head. Clearly I was exaggerating about the seven Super Bowls and 25 sacks, I'm not taking anything away from those guys, I'm just making a point that you can have expectations but things don't always go that way, and players like Andrew, J.D., and Manning were hyped up A LOT. There's no denying that but that's neither here nor there, we are getting away from the real discussion here. He did beat out a career back-up (who was no longer a back-up because, well, he was starting by the time Manziel took the job from him). He didn't show promise but he played two games and got hurt in both.

He didn't get his first start until Week 15 when the Browns had no other choice due to how bad Hoyer was playing. Hoyer got a couple starts in 2013 before he got hurt but other than that before this year he had been a career backup with New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona. I'm not saying that Manziel should have come in and set the NFL on fire, I'm just saying that with all his hype and him being a first round pick he should have at least been able to win the starting job earlier in the season and show some promise as a rookie and the fact that he didn't shows that A) the Browns coaches don't think very highly of him and B) That he's clearly not anywhere near ready to be a starting NFL quarterback let alone the superstar that he thinks he is.