What Facts Justify The Assumption That Peyton Manning And Andrew Luck Can't Exist On The Same Team?

[GoGoColts]

I am looking at the roster and we have basically no one who is going to get a big contract in the next 4 years.

[dn4192]

The issue isn't monies, the issue is feelings. Fans have this need to attach feelings to issues surrounding Peyton. This is a business, and if the Colts have the opportunity to upgrade the most important position on any NFL roster you do it and you don't worry what the players think.

[oldunclemark]

I am looking at the roster and we have basically no one who is going to get a big contract in the next 4 years.

(and there's a rookie wage scale)

The answer is: None....Just like there's no chance of Manning ever being traded by this ownership.

but its not an ESPN story..if there's no conflict.

[Rich Cannon]

Peyton plays while Luck learns i dont understand why that cant happen, i think our fans have seen to many bad passes from Painter and its effected their brains :mellow:

[oldunclemark]

The issue isn't monies, the issue is feelings. Fans have this need to attach feelings to issues surrounding Peyton. This is a business, and if the Colts have the opportunity to upgrade the most important position on any NFL roster you do it and you don't worry what the players think.

But Luck isnt ready to play inthe NFL

No rookie is

Look at Cam, Tebow...Dalton,...that loser we lost to yesterday..

Look at Tyan.. tampa's QB/..Colt..Matthew Stafford...

they are ALL scuffling..

If we got Andrew Luck....he'd sit behind Manning until Manning retired..

or he would let it be known that he wont come to Indy

[dn4192]

But Luck isnt ready to play inthe NFL

No rookie is

Look at Cam, Tebow...Dalton,...that loser we lost to yesterday..

Look at Tyan.. tampa's QB/..Colt..Matthew Stafford...

they are ALL scuffling..

If we got Andrew Luck....he'd sit behind Manning until Manning retired..

or he would let it be known that he wont come to Indy

Cam is playing very well on a bad team, Dalton has the Bengals in the playoff hunt. Like it or not Teabow has won 2 of the 3 games he has started.

[DILLIGAFER]

The issue isn't monies, the issue is feelings. Fans have this need to attach feelings to issues surrounding Peyton. This is a business, and if the Colts have the opportunity to upgrade the most important position on any NFL roster you do it and you don't worry what the players think.

How naive dn, for what Manning has done for Indy and this team.. that's how you treat this man. Its just business?! Wrong! With Manning, its more than just business. For the last 12 years Manning has made this team as well as his own name household name.

Feelings should be attatched. Were not exactly dealing with Donald Brown here. This is Peyton Manning and he has earned every colts fan and coaches respect and should be treated accordingly.

if I were Luck, id be tickled pink to watch and learn from Manning for a few years. Just because Luck is the best QB 'ready' for the NFL, doesn't mean he couldn't learn a thing or two from the greatest ever.

[mahagga73]

But Luck isnt ready to play inthe NFL

No rookie is

Look at Cam, Tebow...Dalton,...that loser we lost to yesterday..

Look at Tyan.. tampa's QB/..Colt..Matthew Stafford...

they are ALL scuffling..

If we got Andrew Luck....he'd sit behind Manning until Manning retired..

or he would let it be known that he wont come to Indy

If Peyton isn't ready to play next year he isn't gonna be here next year.Luck will play asap.If PM is ready,Luck will sit for a couple years and PM will move on in retirement or another team.

[dn4192]

How naive dn, for what Manning has done for Indy and this team.. that's how you treat this man. Its just business?! Wrong! With Manning, its more than just business. For the last 12 years Manning has made this team as well as his own name household name.

Feelings should be attatched. Were not exactly dealing with Donald Brown here. This is Peyton Manning and he has earned every colts fan and coaches respect and should be treated accordingly.

if I were Luck, id be tickled pink to watch and learn from Manning for a few years. Just because Luck is the best QB 'ready' for the NFL, doesn't mean he couldn't learn a thing or two from the greatest ever.

feelings need to be left out of it, if not you are a doomed franchise. SF had no issue cutting ties with the great Joe Montana, GB had no issues trading Brett Farve. Manning gave us a great decade, wonderful, but buys him nothing, if he is not able to go or not go at a good level you move on. If he is back at near 100% you keep him around for a season or two to allow whomever his replacement his to learn and then you move on.

[oldunclemark]

Cam is playing very well on a bad team, Dalton has the Bengals in the playoff hunt. Like it or not Teabow has won 2 of the 3 games he has started.

Cam is not playing very well...what's their record..

Did you see Cincy's game yesterday....They will lose all 4 to Pitt and Balt,,

'

'Tebow is Curtis painter with a prayer.

Keep going: Matt Ryan is struggling. .The Tampa Phenom is off,..

Gabbert passed for 118 yards against a secondary of street players...

It takes 3 or 4 years for a QB to do well in the NFL....

...If we got Luck (or Kellen Moore)...they'd be really ready about 2015 when Manning was ready to retire

[DILLIGAFER]

feelings need to be left out of it, if not you are a doomed franchise. SF had no issue cutting ties with the great Joe Montana, GB had no issues trading Brett Farve. Manning gave us a great decade, wonderful, but buys him nothing, if he is not able to go or not go at a good level you move on. If he is back at near 100% you keep him around for a season or two to allow whomever his replacement his to learn and then you move on.

Typical what have you done for me lately mentality. I don't remember Montana or Favre opening childrens hospitals or a peyback foundation type organization. Nor did the p.r. things Manning has for Indy. But, according to you, indy owes him nothing.. ya, sure.. btw, pass the pipe. Slaps head.

[Rich Cannon]

But Luck isnt ready to play inthe NFL

No rookie is

Look at Cam, Tebow...Dalton,...that loser we lost to yesterday..

Look at Tyan.. tampa's QB/..Colt..Matthew Stafford...

they are ALL scuffling..

If we got Andrew Luck....he'd sit behind Manning until Manning retired..

or he would let it be known that he wont come to Indy

Because Matt Stafford had one horrible game i guess 20 tds and 8 ints is a bad season with 6 games left to play, lets not forget Cam newton on pace for close to 4,000 yds 20 passing td's and 10 rushing td's hes really bad, oh yea Andy Dalton 60 percent completion 14 td's and 9 ints he Not NFL ready (Sarcasm) . Not to mention rookies dont have a say on what team they play for besides Eli Manning <_<

[Flash7]

The problem isn't that we can't keep them on the same team, it's that it would make more sense to move forward with either Manning or Luck. Here's why: If we trade the pick for Luck, we will get a bounty of additonal picks to build the team around manning in an effort to win now. (Yes we would be risking missing out on his successor, and risking another year like this year if he is injured. In drafting Luck, you would risk that he may not develope to be as he is projected to be. either way there is a risk.) This approach would lead us to build a more balanced team, with the understanding that within the next few drafts we will have to find a QB as a successor.

If we draft Luck he will be under the rookie wage scale for presumably 4 years. And if we keep Manning, Manning is due a lot of money, at least $28mill. We could use that money to build a better team around Luck. Both sorgi and Painter have had the opportunity to learn behind Manning and it's evident that it does not help to watch Manning take every snap in practice. Luck will only learn so much behind Manning. He needs to take the reps in practice and practice as the starter, with the startig team. It does not make sense to have Luck sit behind Manning while he is relatively inexpensive. We would be wasting this opportunity. Once his rookie contract expires, we will have to pay him accordingly, and for Luck as the first pick, it will be hefty.

So as a franchise, you have to decide that either way there is a short window. Do you want to try to win with Manning and forego Luck and build the team in that regards. Or do you go with Luck and understand that building a team with Luck and Manning will be ineffective.

[Jaric]

Typical what have you done for me lately mentality. I don't remember Montana or Favre opening childrens hospitals or a peyback foundation type organization. Nor did the p.r. things Manning has for Indy. But, according to you, indy owes him nothing.. ya, sure.. btw, pass the pipe. Slaps head.

So because he started some charities we should forsake the long term stability of this franchise?

I don't think anyone is denying the monumental effect Manning has had on this franchise. Some of us are just accepting that all good things can and will come to an end and right now we need to be concerned about building for the future.

[dn4192]

Cam is not playing very well...what's their record..

Did you see Cincy's game yesterday....They will lose all 4 to Pitt and Balt,,

'

'Tebow is Curtis painter with a prayer.

Keep going: Matt Ryan is struggling. .The Tampa Phenom is off,..

Gabbert passed for 118 yards against a secondary of street players...

It takes 3 or 4 years for a QB to do well in the NFL....

...If we got Luck (or Kellen Moore)...they'd be really ready about 2015 when Manning was ready to retire

If you look past the Panthers record and look at Cam's numbers you will see a rookie QB doing very well.

Yes the Bengals lost yesterday, but still have a winning record and are in the playoff hunt.

Teabow just wins.

Yes rookie/young QB take time to mature, but the good ones do and there is no reason to delay that process if you don't have a better option.

[dn4192]

Typical what have you done for me lately mentality. I don't remember Montana or Favre opening childrens hospitals or a peyback foundation type organization. Nor did the p.r. things Manning has for Indy. But, according to you, indy owes him nothing.. ya, sure.. btw, pass the pipe. Slaps head.

Again you have to remove emothion, this is a business.

[oldunclemark]

Because Matt Stafford had one horrible game i guess 20 tds and 8 ints is a bad season with 6 games left to play, lets not forget Cam newton on pace for close to 4,000 yds 20 passing td's and 10 rushing td's hes really bad, oh yea Andy Dalton 60 percent completion 14 td's and 9 ints he Not NFL ready (Sarcasm) . Not to mention rookies dont have a say on what team they play for besides Eli Manning <_<

Cam's on pace for 4-12...

I want to go to the playoffs next year..Luck cant do that...Dalton cant do that...

Let the season play out and you'll see them slide as defenses adjust...They always do...

The point is: No rookie is likely to replace Manning NEXT SEASON and take us to the playoffs..

If Manning returns........we will be in the playoffs..because he's missed one time in 12 years

We can build AND make the playoffs..is what I'm hoping for.

[dn4192]

The problem isn't that we can't keep them on the same team, it's that it would make more sense to move forward with either Manning or Luck. Here's why: If we trade the pick for Luck, we will get a bounty of additonal picks to build the team around manning in an effort to win now. (Yes we would be risking missing out on his successor, and risking another year like this year if he is injured. In drafting Luck, you would risk that he may not develope to be as he is projected to be. either way there is a risk.) This approach would lead us to build a more balanced team, with the understanding that within the next few drafts we will have to find a QB as a successor.

If we draft Luck he will be under the rookie wage scale for presumably 4 years. And if we keep Manning, Manning is due a lot of money, at least $28mill. We could use that money to build a better team around Luck. Both sorgi and Painter have had the opportunity to learn behind Manning and it's evident that it does not help to watch Manning take every snap in practice. Luck will only learn so much behind Manning. He needs to take the reps in practice and practice as the starter, with the startig team. It does not make sense to have Luck sit behind Manning while he is relatively inexpensive. We would be wasting this opportunity. Once his rookie contract expires, we will have to pay him accordingly, and for Luck as the first pick, it will be hefty.

So as a franchise, you have to decide that either way there is a short window. Do you want to try to win with Manning and forego Luck and build the team in that regards. Or do you go with Luck and understand that building a team with Luck and Manning will be ineffective.

I think you can have your cake and eat it to. If and that is still a HUGE "IF" Peyton is NFL ready next year, you still take Luck, let him learn under Peyton for 2 seasons, then come the offseason after the 2013 season you see where Luck is, if he is ready you deal or release Manning.

[dn4192]

Cam's on pace for 4-12...

I want to go to the playoffs next year..Luck cant do that...Dalton cant do that...

Let the season play out and you'll see them slide as defenses adjust...They always do...

The point is: No rookie is likely to replace Manning NEXT SEASON and take us to the playoffs..

If Manning returns........we will be in the playoffs..because he's missed one time in 12 years

We can build AND make the playoffs..is what I'm hoping for.

Your right we can do both with Luck part of that formula.

[oldunclemark]

If you look past the Panthers record and look at Cam's numbers you will see a rookie QB doing very well.

Yes the Bengals lost yesterday, but still have a winning record and are in the playoff hunt.

Teabow just wins.

Yes rookie/young QB take time to mature, but the good ones do and there is no reason to delay that process if you don't have a better option.

Stop with the Tebow...He completed 2 passes....His defense won yesterday and against Miami,.,dont buy the hype..

We can bring in a new guy AND still make the post-season with the old guy.

Its not an 'either - or' scenario..is what I'm saying...

[ipljeff]

The reason why these rookies play right away is not because they deserve it but because their team is so terrible. The reason why their team is so terrible is the lack of a franchise QB. Case in point is the 2011 Colts we all love. These Colts are in the extremely unique situation of quite possibly having 2 franchise QBs at the same time. If this quite fortunate situation ends up becoming a reality the football decision every GM would make is to sit the rookie in lieu of the established vet. Although rare In the sports world there are couple of similar positive examples. In the NFL we can compare this too Favre/Rodgers or even more aptly this is a David Robinson/Tim Duncan Spurs redux.

[scorptile]

Cam's on pace for 4-12...

I want to go to the playoffs next year..Luck cant do that...Dalton cant do that...

Let the season play out and you'll see them slide as defenses adjust...They always do...

The point is: No rookie is likely to replace Manning NEXT SEASON and take us to the playoffs..

If Manning returns........we will be in the playoffs..because he's missed one time in 12 years

We can build AND make the playoffs..is what I'm hoping for.

i agree with you and what we can do if we do get a #1 pick is not only trade down but there are other great qb's out there doin well and if we do trade we can build the team overall but if we take luck with #1 that is putting us back into the same situation we are already in. i want a TEAM not just one amazing player. many players out weight the needs for one. everyone should know that

[ColtsLegacy]

Teabow just wins.

Let's see how long he "just wins" going 2/8. Who was it who used to "just win"? Oh, that's right, Vince Young (although, even he could complete passes to wide open receivers). Tebow will go the way of the wildcat, because that's all he is, a wildcat QB.

"Just win, baby!"

[DILLIGAFER]

Again you have to remove emothion, this is a business.

Wow, I feel like im replying to a person with no emotion. Get some, it's a fun thing to have.

I don't see the issue with keeping Manning and having Luck study for a few years under Manning.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Wow, I feel like im replying to a person with no emotion. Get some, it's a fun thing to have.

I don't see the issue with keeping Manning and having Luck study for a few years under Manning.

While at the Mall and at the emotion store, maybe he can see if that mall has the common sense store too.

[dn4192]

Wow, I feel like im replying to a person with no emotion. Get some, it's a fun thing to have.

I don't see the issue with keeping Manning and having Luck study for a few years under Manning.

I totally agree, but we have to know when it is time to cut ties with Manning and can't let emotion be involved with the decision.

[wanabecoach]

It doesn't make sense to trade away the highest draft pick you have had since 1998 when....you aquired Peyton Manning. It does how ever make sense to keep the draft pick you have, select whomever they like, and build your team around that pick. What doesn't make sense is to trade your highest pick away since 98 and build around a player (Peyton Manning) that is going to be around for a max of four more years. It does make sense to build around a player like Andrew who will likely be the face of your franchise for 14 years...(like Peyton when he was selected in 98). The time table is WAY infavor of Luck by 10+ years of someone to build around. All of which is assuming Peyton can even come back and play. No brainer, its Luck. If Peyton doesn't like it, hosta lavista. Its a business not a nursing home...you don't get cattered too when age is against you! I love Peyton and I believe he WILL stay on the team and EVERYONE will be happy with the pick. Those who aren't, need to walk for they aren't team players anyways. Its selfish to say otherwise. GO COLTS!

[Mameluc]

I think there are plenty of reason but people are already in love with Luck that it's not worth to even try to expalin reasons.

I am personnally a colts fan, and i would like the colts to suceeed. i think manning is the best option and i rather have him, but if thealth is an issue then by all means take Luck. Having said that, whatever they decide to do i will still suport my colts. As i said i want Manning and i rahter have the ridiculous amount of picks teams will give up for Luck, but i wouldnt boo Luck if we were to take him.

but i just dont see Manning and Luck coexisting for more than 1 year, for me its one or the other.

and btw we do have huge contracts... Freneey, PM and CLarck are huges contracts.

and we may resign Mathis so thats a lot of money if we do.

[jskinnz]

How naive dn, for what Manning has done for Indy and this team.. that's how you treat this man. Its just business?! Wrong! With Manning, its more than just business. For the last 12 years Manning has made this team as well as his own name household name.

Feelings should be attatched. Were not exactly dealing with Donald Brown here. This is Peyton Manning and he has earned every colts fan and coaches respect and should be treated accordingly.

if I were Luck, id be tickled pink to watch and learn from Manning for a few years. Just because Luck is the best QB 'ready' for the NFL, doesn't mean he couldn't learn a thing or two from the greatest ever.

With all due respect running your business/team this way is a sure-fire way to turn them into perennial losers. Emotions have to be left behind and decisions have to be made with the long term best interest of the team in mind. if that means doing something with Manning, then that is what they have to do.

And with regards to Luck, guys like that are ultra-competitive by nature. Just like Manning, who never sat behind anyone. There is no way he would be "tickled pink" to sit for a few years. One year - maybe. Two or more, no way.

[doogansquest]

It's not about existing together; it's about paying two QB's top dollar to have one of them not play, which doesnt help the team. There are so many pressing needs that we pass on by taking a QB in the hopes of fulfilling some delusional Favre/Rodgers fantasy years down the road. The NFL is about winning now. We also have a ton of free agent contracts coming up, and will likely pursue others as well. We cant maximize our opportunities to win the Super Bowl by paying more than $35 million for QB's every season.

Why don't you show us where a team has paid top dollar for a Hall QB, 1st overall pick money for another one, and managed to win a Super Bowl.

[Mameluc]

besides do you really expect a #1 pick to wait 3 years to take over? by the time he takes over he will be looking for a new deal, how exactly do you know if he is worth the top dollars he will be asking for if you havent even seen him play?

and yes I am assumming Manning is back and plays the length of his contract cause you are assuming we will have both.

[Flash7]

I think you can have your cake and eat it to. If and that is still a HUGE "IF" Peyton is NFL ready next year, you still take Luck, let him learn under Peyton for 2 seasons, then come the offseason after the 2013 season you see where Luck is, if he is ready you deal or release Manning.

dn, it's as is you did not read my post at all. I started out by saying that you could have both Luck and Manning but that it is not the best way to move forward.

I've already addressed that Luck will not learn that much behind Manning, just as the previous back ups have not. They need to take snaps at practice and learn with the first team. As long as Manning is healthy, Luck can only watch because Manning prepares to win every game he plays. His preparation includes taking every snap at practice. Luck can learn only so much by watching Manning prepare.

Secondly, you would be waisting Luck's affordable years, where you can be agressive in building a solid team around him. Not having Manning would free up a lot of cap space. It just does not make sense to draft luck under the rookie wage scale and have him sit and then once his rookie contract is set to expire and it goes up dramatically, then you play him with a roster that has to take into account his new salary.

[GoGoColts]

It's not about existing together; it's about paying two QB's top dollar to have one of them not play, which doesnt help the team. There are so many pressing needs that we pass on by taking a QB in the hopes of fulfilling some delusional Favre/Rodgers fantasy years down the road. The NFL is about winning now. We also have a ton of free agent contracts coming up, and will likely pursue others as well. We cant maximize our opportunities to win the Super Bowl by paying more than $35 million for QB's every season.

Why don't you show us where a team has paid top dollar for a Hall QB, 1st overall pick money for another one, and managed to win a Super Bowl.

Fiction.

[WSO]

It's not about existing together; it's about paying two QB's top dollar to have one of them not play, which doesnt help the team. There are so many pressing needs that we pass on by taking a QB in the hopes of fulfilling some delusional Favre/Rodgers fantasy years down the road. The NFL is about winning now. We also have a ton of free agent contracts coming up, and will likely pursue others as well. We cant maximize our opportunities to win the Super Bowl by paying more than $35 million for QB's every season.

Why don't you show us where a team has paid top dollar for a Hall QB, 1st overall pick money for another one, and managed to win a Super Bowl.

Just because no other team has done it doesn't mean its entirely wrong or impossible.

I see nothing wrong with the Colts signing Luck and keeping Manning. Especially since rookie wages now have restrictions. We've wasted money in worse places like Hayden, Sanders etc.

[dn4192]

It's not about existing together; it's about paying two QB's top dollar to have one of them not play, which doesnt help the team. There are so many pressing needs that we pass on by taking a QB in the hopes of fulfilling some delusional Favre/Rodgers fantasy years down the road. The NFL is about winning now. We also have a ton of free agent contracts coming up, and will likely pursue others as well. We cant maximize our opportunities to win the Super Bowl by paying more than $35 million for QB's every season.

Why don't you show us where a team has paid top dollar for a Hall QB, 1st overall pick money for another one, and managed to win a Super Bowl.

With the new CBA the number 1 pick is pretty much locked into X amount. Second have often has the situation occured when a team with a HOF QB had the chance at the Number 1 pick when the top rated QB over the past decade plus was coming out. Third, I don't think Rogers liked sitting on the bench as long as he did, but it didn't seem to stunt his growth.

[Zebra3]

With the new CBA the number 1 pick is pretty much locked into X amount. Second have often has the situation occured when a team with a HOF QB had the chance at the Number 1 pick when the top rated QB over the past decade plus was coming out. Third, I don't think Rogers liked sitting on the bench as long as he did, but it didn't seem to stunt his growth.

Exceptions do not make the rule.

[dn4192]

besides do you really expect a #1 pick to wait 3 years to take over? by the time he takes over he will be looking for a new deal, how exactly do you know if he is worth the top dollars he will be asking for if you havent even seen him play?

and yes I am assumming Manning is back and plays the length of his contract cause you are assuming we will have both.

Who said 3 years? If he is ready after 1 year he starts, if not if he is ready after 2 he starts. Your future is with the top pick if he produces, not a 36+ year old QB.

[Zebra3]

I totally agree, but we have to know when it is time to cut ties with Manning and can't let emotion be involved with the decision.

Well, based on your posting history, you would have no problem kicking Manning to the curb regardless, so let's not try to sound all high minded and objective. I'm certain that the team will leave emotion as the last factor in a decision.

[dn4192]

dn, it's as is you did not read my post at all. I started out by saying that you could have both Luck and Manning but that it is not the best way to move forward.

I've already addressed that Luck will not learn that much behind Manning, just as the previous back ups have not. They need to take snaps at practice and learn with the first team. As long as Manning is healthy, Luck can only watch because Manning prepares to win every game he plays. His preparation includes taking every snap at practice. Luck can learn only so much by watching Manning prepare.

Secondly, you would be waisting Luck's affordable years, where you can be agressive in building a solid team around him. Not having Manning would free up a lot of cap space. It just does not make sense to draft luck under the rookie wage scale and have him sit and then once his rookie contract is set to expire and it goes up dramatically, then you play him with a roster that has to take into account his new salary.

We disagree, Aaron Rogers learned and developed while not playing. I am unclear as to why you think Peytons replacement can't? Painter didn't because Painter isn't a good QB. Wasn't in college, and isn't in the pro's. Second your not "wasting" anything, you are investing and developing and like I have said, once Luck is ready, which could be for the 2013 or 2014 season then he starts and Manning becomes either trade bait or your backup. Also how would Luck's 2nd contract go "up" significantly unless he has started and produced outstanding numbers? He would get a raise, but not a huge one unless his on the field performance warrented it.

[Jaric]

It's not about existing together; it's about paying two QB's top dollar to have one of them not play, which doesnt help the team. There are so many pressing needs that we pass on by taking a QB in the hopes of fulfilling some delusional Favre/Rodgers fantasy years down the road. The NFL is about winning now. We also have a ton of free agent contracts coming up, and will likely pursue others as well. We cant maximize our opportunities to win the Super Bowl by paying more than $35 million for QB's every season.

Why don't you show us where a team has paid top dollar for a Hall QB, 1st overall pick money for another one, and managed to win a Super Bowl.

You're aware there is a new rookie cap system right? Which means we would not be paying Andrew Luck 12 mil a year or even close to that.

Not to mention that we don't know the status of Manning's health or how long he will be able to come back if at all.

We also, in case you haven't been paying attention this year, suck. Yeah, I know with Manning we'd be better, but this is not a team who is one QB away from being a legitimate superbowl team. So if you have visions of Lombardi's dancing around in your head next year just because Manning is back you're likely going to be disappointed. And in two years when Manning retires I suppose that's when we decide to address the long term needs at the most important position in football? Just hope that we are in a position to draft our franchise QB for the next 10-15 years?

I'm sorry, but with all the uncertainty regarding our QB position if we are in a position to draft Luck, we'd be fools not to.