Luck #30

[Dustin]

I just posted the stats earlier in this thread.

 

Carolina: 1441 yards 8 tds.

Indy: 1336 yards 11 tds

(without QB numbers)

 

Difference in the running game in negligible. Can we really say one was more effective than the other?

 

Aluding to what TDavis85 mentioned Football outsiders has a stat they call "Houdinis" that they define as a play where a QB escapes a would-be sack.

Cam lead the league BY FAR with 20 would-be-sacks evaded, guess who was next.. Russel wilson with 10.  Had they not been able to avoid those sacks with their feet, both of them would easily be close to the most sacked QBs in the league. Carolina  O-line and Seattle's pass protection is not very good at all.

 

Uhh, I hate when people don't know how to use stats, or just use random one to try and make a point.

 

Here's another stat for you. Cam Newton was 29th in sack percentage in 2013. Luck was 5th. Even tho Luck was significantly pressured more on a per snap basis. 

 

You use bad stats and you should feel bad. 

[Dustin]

Cam has been hit in the pocket more than any QB in the NFL the last 3 years, & by a large margin.

Saying that Cam has a good offensive line & running game is being laughable. He doesn't. Making crap up to prop up Luck is pretty sad. They're both great young QBs.

 

The irony in these two statements are outstanding. No, as a matter of fact, in his first 3 years combined, Newton hasn't been hit as much as Luck in his first 2 years. On a ratio of 225-194 in "favor" of Luck. 

 

Here. Do the math. 

 

So, the next time you accuse somebody of "making stuff up", you probably shouldn't do the same thing in the same breath.

[Dustin]

In response to the OP, the only people who care about these lists are fans of irrelevant teams who have never won anything like the Panthers. 

[TKnight24]

In response to the OP, the only people who care about these lists are fans of irrelevant teams who have never won anything like the Panthers.

[a06cc]

Me personally I could careless what Luck is ranked at. I wasn't going to address it. We all know what our guy is capable of. He can run or throw on you. It's a new season and we're focused on winning a Super Bowl. Doesn't matter to me who is ranked above him or below. The resume will speak for itself.

[rsrobinson]

Consistently moved the chains? Yeah, after they had a 29 point lead....Big deal. You tell me I couldn't be more wrong and just give me filler on now great he was while ignoring the fact he did almost all of that damage after the game was decided. Guess what? It's not difficult to throw the ball when you're up 30 pts and everyone knows the game is over. After the Percy Having return at the start of the 3rd I expected seattle to run the ball 30 times....it's almost like Carrol wanted Wilson to pad his stats and win MVP. Luckily the voters didn't fall for it.

 

Um...what?  Which game did you watch?  The Seahawks controlled the ball for 14:41 of the first 18:00 minutes of the game and produced 13 points on three scoring drives. During that time they converted 5 of 7 third down attempts.  You don't think that keeping Manning and the Greatest Offense in the History of the World on the sidelines for most of the first quarter-and-a-half played a big role in the outcome of the game?

 

Wilson also produced his numbers in a little over 3 quarters.  The Seahawks took their foot off the gas after making it 43-8 early in the 4th and Wilson spent much of the fourth quarter on the sidelines wearing a baseball hat where its a little difficult to pad your stats for MVP voters.

[Atrain]

 

 

Uhh, I hate when people don't know how to use stats, or just use random one to try and make a point.

 

Here's another stat for you. Cam Newton was 29th in sack percentage in 2013. Luck was 5th. Even tho Luck was significantly pressured more on a per snap basis. 

 

You use bad stats and you should feel bad. 

And I hate when people dont know how to read and comprehend the conversation before jumping in with a snarky comment.

 

The only reason I mentioned Cam evading Sacks was because the previous poster mentioned Carolina being 17th in sacks given up as if it spoke to the quality of Carolina's o-line.

 

And I LOVE to know where you got your stats from, because I have not been able to find one site that corroborates your sack percentage numbers.

 

 

[dgambill]

That's far too long for me to respond to every point. But the fact that you act like Wilson played tremendous in the SB is hilarious. Why do you think he didn't win MVP from a media that is obsessed with quarterback play? It was because he did very little until the game was already decided. Wilson was 9-14 94 0 and the score was 29-0.

And I don't know what you have against Luck....I didn't even bring his name up and wasn't even comparing the two. All I was responding to was the notion that Wilson played GREAT in the playoffs.

* I guess I did say Wilson wasn't good in the playoffs....my bad. I just don't think he was anything special.

Sorry. I thought we were doing a comparison of Luck and Wilson's post season...because everyone was upset that Wilson got ranked ahead of Luck on the list done by the players themselves. I have nothing against Luck...he had a great season it just ended on a down note. Had he taken care of the ball like he did all season long...I think we could have beat NE. I think Russell Wilson played extremely well in the SB. He took care of the ball...played a very efficient game. Sure they didnt have to sustain long drives but he threw two tds and continously carved up Denver's defense....on the big stage he played a clean game...didn't turn the ball over...made all the right decisions...no he didn't put up SB record numbers but it wasn't needed. It wasn't like Seattle's defense put all those points on the board. They did shut down Denver and force punts but the offense did a great job of keeping the foot down...taking those possessions and piling up points. They didn't let up and they didn't let Denver change the momentum. Clearly Wilson wasn't the MVP...but he played mistake free football and took what Denver gave him. I was impressed I guess no one else on here was. I just don't agree with him being called a game manager...he regularly makes big plays with his feet or through the air. Those that compared him to Trent Dilfer were totally off base. Overall I do think Luck is clearly the better QB...but Russell had the better year....he had the best year of anyone winning the SB so I see why he got ranked highly on the list. I think his play was very underrated this year. I hope you don't think I was just trying to bag on Andrew...I love him...he is extremely talented...he just had a bad ending to a great season for him.

[dgambill]

Those are very good points.

I agree Wilson wasn't the MVP...but any number of people could have been. Even Percy Harvin or Chancelor. Let's be honest...this was billed as Seattle's legion of boom vs Peyton Manning. Russell was a minor sub-story...it was Richard Sherman vs Peyton....offense vs defense...but that pick and return was the play that broke the game open...even if Smith really didn't do much on the play...it was a gimmie it still defined the game. That said it takes nothing away from what Wilson accomplished...nor what Chancellor or that front 4 did to the Denver OL.

 

Perhaps I'm the only one on here but I thought Luck had a poor showing in the post-season...maybe it was just me...but that NE game....wow below 50% passing and 4 ints...that hurts! He made Andy Dalton look good in comparison of just that game.

[chad72]

I agree Wilson wasn't the MVP...but any number of people could have been. Even Percy Harvin or Chancelor. Let's be honest...this was billed as Seattle's legion of boom vs Peyton Manning. Russell was a minor sub-story...it was Richard Sherman vs Peyton....offense vs defense...but that pick and return was the play that broke the game open...even if Smith really didn't do much on the play...it was a gimmie it still defined the game. That said it takes nothing away from what Wilson accomplished...nor what Chancellor or that front 4 did to the Denver OL.

 

Perhaps I'm the only one on here but I thought Luck had a poor showing in the post-season...maybe it was just me...but that NE game....wow below 50% passing and 4 ints...that hurts! He made Andy Dalton look good in comparison of just that game.

 

True dat. Percy Harvin, Kam Chancellor or a forgotten Cliff Avril who caused the pick six by hitting Peyton's arm.

 

First line of defense was Cliff Avril. Two guys who were injured for the most part but that played in the SB - Harvin and Avril were the ones the Broncos had no answer for, it was almost like their talents were unaccounted for. If the story of the SB was Seattle's DL domination of the Broncos' OL, Avril had to be the MVP, IMO.

 

Harvin and Chancellor made the glamorous/highlight plays but Avril schooling Orlando Franklin is something you cannot forget from the SB, at least for me, which is why I felt Avril should have been MVP.

[dgambill]

True dat. Percy Harvin, Kam Chancellor or a forgotten Cliff Avril who caused the pick six by hitting Peyton's arm.

 

First line of defense was Cliff Avril. Two guys who were injured for the most part but that played in the SB - Harvin and Avril were the ones the Broncos had no answer for, it was almost like their talents were unaccounted for. If the story of the SB was Seattle's DL domination of the Broncos' OL, Avril had to be the MVP, IMO.

 

Harvin and Chancellor made the glamorous/highlight plays but Avril schooling Orlando Franklin is something you cannot forget from the SB, at least for me, which is why I felt Avril should have been MVP.

Indeed...everyone called on to suit up for Seattle played an outstanding game...its hard to point to one guy...probably why Wilson gets over looked but he played a solid game too. Just everyone wooped their man across from them offense and defense so he didn't stand out...nobody did above all others imo. A great team win.

[Superman]

I agree Wilson wasn't the MVP...but any number of people could have been. Even Percy Harvin or Chancelor. Let's be honest...this was billed as Seattle's legion of boom vs Peyton Manning. Russell was a minor sub-story...it was Richard Sherman vs Peyton....offense vs defense...but that pick and return was the play that broke the game open...even if Smith really didn't do much on the play...it was a gimmie it still defined the game. That said it takes nothing away from what Wilson accomplished...nor what Chancellor or that front 4 did to the Denver OL.

 

Perhaps I'm the only one on here but I thought Luck had a poor showing in the post-season...maybe it was just me...but that NE game....wow below 50% passing and 4 ints...that hurts! He made Andy Dalton look good in comparison of just that game.

 

I feel like we're combining a bunch of issues here. I don't really disagree with anything you're saying in this post, I just felt like you were overstating Wilson's play in the postseason. He did what his team needed him to do, and he deserves credit for not turning the ball over, but you put a lot more on it than that earlier.

 

And yeah, Luck needs to take better care of the ball in the playoffs, but a couple games with a few turnovers doesn't outweigh his season, which was pretty good (and in which he took really good care of the ball). Postseason is important, but we're not talking about the legacy of these two guys through two seasons. Luck will be fine, despite having a tough go in New England. And despite the turnovers in the KC game, he led the second biggest comeback in playoff history. That's a credit to his play.

 

Still, that's off-topic, IMO. I was just saying I wasn't as impressed with Wilson's postseason play as you were, particularly in the Super Bowl when he basically just had to stay out of the way. 

[BOTT]

Um...what?  Which game did you watch?  The Seahawks controlled the ball for 14:41 of the first 18:00 minutes of the game and produced 13 points on three scoring drives. During that time they converted 5 of 7 third down attempts.  You don't think that keeping Manning and the Greatest Offense in the History of the World on the sidelines for most of the first quarter-and-a-half played a big role in the outcome of the game?

 

Wilson also produced his numbers in a little over 3 quarters.  The Seahawks took their foot off the gas after making it 43-8 early in the 4th and Wilson spent much of the fourth quarter on the sidelines wearing a baseball hat where its a little difficult to pad your stats for MVP voters.

And it's was Wilson's stellar 9-14 94 0 that made it happen? Ok. They produced 13 points by kicking a 51 and 58 yard FG and scoring a TD after starting the drive at Denver's 37. I'm sorry, but I could have played QB for Seahawks in the 2nd half and it wouldn't have mattered.

And for the record I watched the SB....the game where Tavaris Jackson played 1min and 45 seconds. Those lil pesky facts....

[BOTT]

I agree Wilson wasn't the MVP...but any number of people could have been. Even Percy Harvin or Chancelor. Let's be honest...this was billed as Seattle's legion of boom vs Peyton Manning. Russell was a minor sub-story...it was Richard Sherman vs Peyton....offense vs defense...but that pick and return was the play that broke the game open...even if Smith really didn't do much on the play...it was a gimmie it still defined the game. That said it takes nothing away from what Wilson accomplished...nor what Chancellor or that front 4 did to the Denver OL.

 

Perhaps I'm the only one on here but I thought Luck had a poor showing in the post-season...maybe it was just me...but that NE game....wow below 50% passing and 4 ints...that hurts! He made Andy Dalton look good in comparison of just that game.

I agree that his season ended on a bad note. But it's a pet peeve of mine when people simply throw out numbers like 4 interceptions. While it sounds horrible, we all watched the game and know only two were his fault.

[rsrobinson]

And it's was Wilson's stellar 9-14 94 0 that made it happen? Ok. They produced 13 points by kicking a 51 and 58 yard FG and scoring a TD after starting the drive at Denver's 37. I'm sorry, but I could have played QB for Seahawks in the 2nd half and it wouldn't have mattered.

And for the record I watched the SB....the game where Tavaris Jackson played 1min and 45 seconds. Those lil pesky facts....

 Now you're just making stuff up.  Both of the first two drives got inside the Broncos ten yard line and the field goals were from 31 and 33 yards, not 51 and 58.  And that 9-14 94 yards that you keep harping on DID all happen in that first 18 minute stretch when the Seahawks controlled the ball and kept Manning on the sidelines.  After the Seahawks scored with 12 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter their offense never got back on the field until the 10:38 mark of the 3rd quarter except for two running plays at the end of the half to run out the clock.  You see Manning started putting together long time-consuming drives that ended with a pick six and a failure to convert on fourth down.  And then there was the Harvin return after the half.  It's hard to get back on the field when you keep kicking off to the other team and even Wilson isn't good enough to rack up big numbers standing on the sidelines.

 

The Seahawks took their foot off the gas after making the score 43-8 with 11:45 remaining in the game.  Wilson spent his final series feeding backup RB Robert Turbin the ball to burn the clock and left the field with 5.19 left and never returned.  So essentially he threw one pass for an incompletion in the final 12 minutes of the game and that's your idea of padding his numbers?  Hilarious.

 

Excluding the two plays before the half to run out the clock and Wilson's final series where the Seahawks were burning the clock and making no effort to score, Wilson was on the field for six series.  The Seahawks scored on five of them...three TDs, and two FGs. The one time they had to punt was because a 22-yard run by Wilson was negated by a holding penalty.  He completed 72% of his passes for 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 123.1 QB rating, averaged a stellar 8.24 yards per attempt, ran for another 26 yards, and never let defenders get so much as a fingernail on any of his passes.  It was a ruthlessly efficient performance.

 

It amazes me the logical pretzels that Wilson's detractors twist in trying to claim that everyone on the Seahawks was responsible for the Super Bowl win except its starting quarterback.

[BOTT]

Now you're just making stuff up.  Both of the first two drives got inside the Broncos ten yard line and the field goals were from 31 and 33 yards, not 51 and 58.  And that 9-14 94 yards that you keep harping on DID all happen in that first 18 minute stretch when the Seahawks controlled the ball and kept Manning on the sidelines.  After the Seahawks scored with 12 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter their offense never got back on the field until the 10:38 mark of the 3rd quarter except for two running plays at the end of the half to run out the clock.  You see Manning started putting together long time-consuming drives that ended with a pick six and a failure to convert on fourth down.  And then there was the Harvin return after the half.  It's hard to get back on the field when you keep kicking off to the other team and even Wilson isn't good enough to rack up big numbers standing on the sidelines.

 

The Seahawks took their foot off the gas after making the score 43-8 with 11:45 remaining in the game.  Wilson spent his final series feeding backup RB Robert Turbin the ball to burn the clock and left the field with 5.19 left and never returned.  So essentially he threw one pass for an incompletion in the final 12 minutes of the game and that's your idea of padding his numbers?  Hilarious.

 

Excluding the two plays before the half to run out the clock and Wilson's final series where the Seahawks were burning the clock and making no effort to score, Wilson was on the field for six series.  The Seahawks scored on five of them...three TDs, and two FGs. The one time they had to punt was because a 22-yard run by Wilson was negated by a holding penalty.  He completed 72% of his passes for 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 123.1 QB rating, averaged a stellar 8.24 yards per attempt, ran for another 26 yards, and never let defenders get so much as a fingernail on any of his passes.  It was a ruthlessly efficient performance.

 

It amazes me the logical pretzels that Wilson's detractors twist in trying to claim that everyone on the Seahawks was responsible for the Super Bowl win except its starting quarterback.

Good god, I don't care near enough to read more of your drivel.