New Brain scan , 1st one without needing autopsy, for chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) , shows 8 of 9 tested with it including Dorsett

[bayone]

 Tony Dorsett says he's been told by doctors that he is showing signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), resulting from "numerous" concussions he suffered during his playing career.

 

In an interview with ESPN's Outside the Lines, Dorsett said he has struggled with memory loss, angry outbursts and depression, prompting him to seek a diagnosis for his symptoms.

 

It was then that doctors at UCLA administered a new brain scan that can detect CTE in living people.

 

Previously, CTE could only be confirmed through autopsy.

 

Dorsett is one of nine players to undergo the new test. Eight others have shown signs of CTE, including Hall of Famer Joe DeLamielleure.

 

Dorsett said he has even contemplated suicide.

 

http://main.aol.com/2013/11/07/tony-dorsett-has-signs-of_n_4234308.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl12%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D402723

 

 

[bayone]

 Tony Dorsett says he's been told by doctors that he is showing signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), resulting from "numerous" concussions he suffered during his playing career.

 

In an interview with ESPN's Outside the Lines, Dorsett said he has struggled with memory loss, angry outbursts and depression, prompting him to seek a diagnosis for his symptoms.

 

It was then that doctors at UCLA administered a new brain scan that can detect CTE in living people.

 

Previously, CTE could only be confirmed through autopsy.

 

Dorsett is one of nine players to undergo the new test. Eight others have shown signs of CTE, including Hall of Famer Joe DeLamielleure.

 

Dorsett said he has even contemplated suicide.

 

http://main.aol.com/2013/11/07/tony-dorsett-has-signs-of_n_4234308.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl12%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D402723

 

actually all 9 showed signs of CTE

 

Dorsett is one of nine players to undergo the new test. Eight others have shown signs of CTE, including Hall of Famer Joe DeLamielleure.

 

Test is major Breakthrough, esp as u dont have to first die to be tested for CTE as before

[oldunclemark]

.....This is not the NFL"s fault...its not Roger Goddell's fault..

Its the nature of the sport......everyone who plays football is vulnerable

....The issue is: Can players accept that if you play football...you will probably die young?...

Can families accept that.

[bayone]

.....This is not the NFL"s fault...its not Roger Goddell's fault..

Its the nature of the sport......everyone who plays football is vulnerable

....The issue is: Can players accept that if you play football...you will probably die young?...

Can families accept that.

 

agreed

 

just letting forum members know there is now a test that can be done WHILE ONE IS ALIVE to check for this

 

who knows what info may be gained by studies involving various cross sections of jobs / Peolpe of all types, and follow up on individuals with positive  results and various therapies tied to alter changes that now cant be checked 

 

Just saying this test gives us another weapon via informationprovided  in finding a treatment to possibly slow pgogression

[Thewholefnshow28]

I fully expect what we watch as football now will be a shell of itself in years to come.  I do not think football will go away, but I could see it going the way of boxing and just become a niche sport in this country. 

 

If I had kids I know I would have a moral dilemma knowing what we know now letting them play. Part of me would want them to play the sport they like and the other side knowing the damage that can be caused by football would make me torn.  Parents all across the country will be faced with the same decision.  

 

Heck even at times now I find myself enjoying football just a little bit less especially after big hits where you clearly see the head get hit on the ground or by a shoulder pad.

[dgambill]

Interesting...did they test anyone that hasn't played football for this? If you look for something that is commonly found in aging adults it would be likely they all have this supposed disease. Tou or whatever it is called that is found in the brains of those that supposedly has this disease is found commonly in aging adults. I'm not saying concussions aren't serious or shouldn't be minimized or monitored but their is plenty of debate amoungst experts if this disease even exists. I doubt anyone here is an expert on the matter but it seems if you go looking for something...not knowing what is the cause and then find it in every brain you look at it is easy to say its a direct correlation....but if you open it up to studying brains outside the nfl...and see it commonly there too...well there might not be such a direct correlation. Any ways...I don't think anyone knows for sure the correlation to contact sports and this disease....it is a little self serving for too many involved who are getting millions on both sides to draw their conclusions...but it is very much debated.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-21/news/ct-met-cte-debate-20130621_1_cte-repetitive-brain-trauma-ex-football-players

[ColtsBlueFL]

agreed

 

just letting forum members know there is now a test that can be done WHILE ONE IS ALIVE to check for this

 

who knows what info may be gained by studies involving various cross sections of jobs / Peolpe of all types, and follow up on individuals with positive  results and various therapies tied to alter changes that now cant be checked 

 

Just saying this test gives us another weapon via informationprovided  in finding a treatment to possibly slow pgogression

 

Hmmm. Will players ask to be tested by their own physician of choice, to determine if and extent of damage?  That might make the choice of returning foe another season much harder depending upon results.  More here folks-

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/health/cte-study/

[bayone]

Hmmm. Will players ask to be tested by their own physician of choice, to determine if and extent of damage?  That might make the choice of returning foe another season much harder depending upon results.  More here folks-

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/health/cte-study/

 

go0od article and video, thanks also love what u postulate that i never thought of as highlighted  in your comment

 

all artcles presented involve f different universities

 

the article in my OP just notes

 

t was then that doctors at UCLA administered a new brain scan that can detect CTE in living people. so dont know if its same as what others are talking about but likely so

[bayone]

Interesting...did they test anyone that hasn't played football for this? If you look for something that is commonly found in aging adults it would be likely they all have this supposed disease. Tou or whatever it is called that is found in the brains of those that supposedly has this disease is found commonly in aging adults. I'm not saying concussions aren't serious or shouldn't be minimized or monitored but their is plenty of debate amoungst experts if this disease even exists. I doubt anyone here is an expert on the matter but it seems if you go looking for something...not knowing what is the cause and then find it in every brain you look at it is easy to say its a direct correlation....but if you open it up to studying brains outside the nfl...and see it commonly there too...well there might not be such a direct correlation. Any ways...I don't think anyone knows for sure the correlation to contact sports and this disease....it is a little self serving for too many involved who are getting millions on both sides to draw their conclusions...but it is very much debated.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-21/news/ct-met-cte-debate-20130621_1_cte-repetitive-brain-trauma-ex-football-players

 

good question, just know Dorset was positive after complaing of issues including suicidal thoughts, memory loss , anger issues etc

 

all artcles presented involve f different universities

---------------

the article in my OP just notes

 

t was then that doctors at UCLA administered a new brain scan that can detect CTE in living people. so dont know if its same as what others are talking about but likely so

[BOTT]

I fully expect what we watch as football now will be a shell of itself in years to come.  I do not think football will go away, but I could see it going the way of boxing and just become a niche sport in this country. 

 

If I had kids I know I would have a moral dilemma knowing what we know now letting them play. Part of me would want them to play the sport they like and the other side knowing the damage that can be caused by football would make me torn.  Parents all across the country will be faced with the same decision.  

 

Heck even at times now I find myself enjoying football just a little bit less especially after big hits where you clearly see the head get hit on the ground or by a shoulder pad.

The violence of boxing had nothing to with it demise. If people were put off by the violence of mma wouldn't be one of the fastest growing sports in the country.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Interesting...did they test anyone that hasn't played football for this? If you look for something that is commonly found in aging adults it would be likely they all have this supposed disease. Tou or whatever it is called that is found in the brains of those that supposedly has this disease is found commonly in aging adults. I'm not saying concussions aren't serious or shouldn't be minimized or monitored but their is plenty of debate amoungst experts if this disease even exists. I doubt anyone here is an expert on the matter but it seems if you go looking for something...not knowing what is the cause and then find it in every brain you look at it is easy to say its a direct correlation....but if you open it up to studying brains outside the nfl...and see it commonly there too...well there might not be such a direct correlation. Any ways...I don't think anyone knows for sure the correlation to contact sports and this disease....it is a little self serving for too many involved who are getting millions on both sides to draw their conclusions...but it is very much debated.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-21/news/ct-met-cte-debate-20130621_1_cte-repetitive-brain-trauma-ex-football-players

 

You never know, there might be some have exposure to advanced interventional technology from the medical and medical equipment manufacturer side.  Barry is a physician, albeit no-practicing because of issues he divulge to us sometime back.  I trust he broke this because he still stays involved in medical aspects along with his sports, and is intrigues by the potential... as am I.  I am not an MD, but long time ago but was involved in a Cath Lab ans Special Procedures team and now am a Sr specialist with an International equipment manufacturer that makes and provides advanced solutions and equipment to the medical field; but I'm not speaking for them, my comment will be my own opinion.

 

You have a great question.  Let me try to lessen the uncertainty and hopefully Barry will feel well enough to chime in when he can.

 

Essentially, the equipment and PET scan test itself have been in use for awhile. The specialties in medical imaging of Nuclear Medicine and CAT (computed axial tomography) have long been in use and practice.  As with everything continuous improvements allow these tools to show more and more in clinical images.  (this because of the increased resolution from technical advancements that are correlated with the pathology).  the PET scan and (especially) the CAT, or now more often referred to as CT, scan,  are ubiquitous.  Throughout use in both research and routine diagnosis, the physician pretty much know what any type pathology will appear like on the various imaging tools.  PET scans have been used for Alzheimer's, Epilepsy, cancer as well as other brain functionality data.  I believe they have just tested and confirmed the tools are now capable of delineating this condition quite well, and NFL players are just one group that could greatly benefit from this new application of a long standing tool.  

 

My question is if, and when players will choose to use this, as it may make the large impressions on how they progress in their playing career.

[bap1331]

The violence of boxing had nothing to with it demise. If people were put off by the violence of mma wouldn't be one of the fastest growing sports in the country.

I don't even want to know what problems mma people are gonna get...

Definitely worse then any boxer. We dont know the long term problems because it's a new sport

[bayone]

You never know, there might be some have exposure to advanced interventional technology from the medical and medical equipment manufacturer side.  Barry is a physician, albeit no-practicing because of issues he divulge to us sometime back.  I trust he broke this because he still stays involved in medical aspects along with his sports, and is intrigues by the potential... as am I.  I am not an MD, but long time ago but was involved in a Cath Lab ans Special Procedures team and now am a Sr specialist with an International equipment manufacturer that makes and provides advanced solutions and equipment to the medical field; but I'm not speaking for them, my comment will be my own opinion.

 

You have a great question.  Let me try to lessen the uncertainty and hopefully Barry will feel well enough to chime in when he can.

 

Essentially, the equipment and PET scan test itself have been in use for awhile. The specialties in medical imaging of Nuclear Medicine and CAT (computed axial tomography) have long been in use and practice.  As with everything continuous improvements allow these tools to show more and more in clinical images.  (this because of the increased resolution from technical advancements that are correlated with the pathology).  the PET scan and (especially) the CAT, or now more often referred to as CT, scan,  are ubiquitous.  Throughout use in both research and routine diagnosis, the physician pretty much know what any type pathology will appear like on the various imaging tools.  PET scans have been used for Alzheimer's, Epilepsy, cancer as well as other brain functionality data.  I believe they have just tested and confirmed the tools are now capable of delineating this condition quite well, and NFL players are just one group that could greatly benefit from this new application of a long standing tool.  

 

My question is if, and when players will choose to use this, as it may make the large impressions on how they progress in their playing career.

 

agree with what u say & u say it quite  well., rarely nothing incitful to add 

 

Yes the potential is untapped and unknown as of now refining diagnostic use for CTE &   for developing / evaluating  therapies to at least decrease rate of disease , but like all advances will take time

 

HOWEVER

 

had spoke to brother last night  before read this today AM, and know going on vacation, takes 1 every 2 weeks, will retire relatively soon to be with 2 grand kids on east coast 

 

I have to remember to ask my Brother if he has been to any conference that has hinted to this as he is a great Diagnostic radilogist , been in practice since 1980 given immediate partnership he couldnt refuse in Daayton Ohio, was asked to be chaiman of radiology and was chief resident there at NYU and was  youngest Chief of staff ever at  the  main hospital of a few in Dayton his group covers  years back when younger ,  as well as designing some satellite hospital offices

 

Hopefully he will have some incite we havent come across at various conventions he has attended

 

Go Colts, have great weekend,  lets get 2 quick wins this short week\

 

 

[BOTT]

I don't even want to know what problems mma people are gonna get...

Definitely worse then any boxer. We dont know the long term problems because it's a new sport

Actually it may not be as bad. Boxing gloves allow fighters to endure hundreds of blows to the head in just one fight...where as mama guys tend to go down after a handful of blows. Wouldn't wanna make a living doing either though.

[bayone]

PS 1 last note, , a google co founder funded his wifes company that does various diagnostic tests to tell u if u have lets say a tendency to possibly have a blood clot of some type, witrh that knowledge people who pay for these tests then ask their Drs , hey, I am going on a trip , flight is x hrs at x elevation but pressurized or if small plane maybe not , with this possible tendency I have should i take an aspirin before flight  or pay for first class etc for  more room to myself and be more relaxed & less stressed, 

 

No crap this is supposedly true , was interviewed / reported on TV financial network 

 

u never know where  this CTE testing   could  evolve too

 

 

You never know, there might be some have exposure to advanced interventional technology from the medical and medical equipment manufacturer side.  Barry is a physician, albeit no-practicing because of issues he divulge to us sometime back.  I trust he broke this because he still stays involved in medical aspects along with his sports, and is intrigues by the potential... as am I.  I am not an MD, but long time ago but was involved in a Cath Lab ans Special Procedures team and now am a Sr specialist with an International equipment manufacturer that makes and provides advanced solutions and equipment to the medical field; but I'm not speaking for them, my comment will be my own opinion.

 

You have a great question.  Let me try to lessen the uncertainty and hopefully Barry will feel well enough to chime in when he can.

 

Essentially, the equipment and PET scan test itself have been in use for awhile. The specialties in medical imaging of Nuclear Medicine and CAT (computed axial tomography) have long been in use and practice.  As with everything continuous improvements allow these tools to show more and more in clinical images.  (this because of the increased resolution from technical advancements that are correlated with the pathology).  the PET scan and (especially) the CAT, or now more often referred to as CT, scan,  are ubiquitous.  Throughout use in both research and routine diagnosis, the physician pretty much know what any type pathology will appear like on the various imaging tools.  PET scans have been used for Alzheimer's, Epilepsy, cancer as well as other brain functionality data.  I believe they have just tested and confirmed the tools are now capable of delineating this condition quite well, and NFL players are just one group that could greatly benefit from this new application of a long standing tool.  

 

My question is if, and when players will choose to use this, as it may make the large impressions on how they progress in their playing career.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Good stuff Barry, Thanks for the find, and keep us posted on info you come across or your brother shares.

[bap1331]

Actually it may not be as bad. Boxing gloves allow fighters to endure hundreds of blows to the head in just one fight...where as mama guys tend to go down after a handful of blows. Wouldn't wanna make a living doing either though.

 

yea but I think 1 full blow to the head of a knockout is just as bad as repeated blows with boxing.

[Synthetic]

.....This is not the NFL"s fault...its not Roger Goddell's fault..

Its the nature of the sport......everyone who plays football is vulnerable

....The issue is: Can players accept that if you play football...you will probably die young?...

Can families accept that.

 

 

Still don't mean the NFL should leave these guys out to rot in the sunset. That's the excuse "it's a violent game, you paid the price" they paid the price and the NFL took it to the bank. They've done a very poor job taking care of the former greats of the league while they contentiously profit from their image and sell the game.

 

This is why the bounty thing was so stupid. They pulled that crap to make it appear like they really care about player safety. The NFL profits from all those big hits and stuff like Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White giving quarterbacks monster sacks. Defenses like the old Bears or 70's Steelers are still sold as the face of the NFL even though they favor quarterbacks more than any these days.

 

 

For a tax exempt organization such as the NFL that rakes in billions of dollars every year, the least they could do is give players healthcare or something to help them, since after all they are the ones that sacrifice their bodies to play in this league.

 

It is the NFL's fault on their behalf for doing nothing about it and then raising all this nonsense "we care about player safety" yeah they sure do by leaving guys like Dorsett, Earl Campbell, and the multiple others out to decay in their terrible body conditions.

[AntonMcG]

Actually it may not be as bad. Boxing gloves allow fighters to endure hundreds of blows to the head in just one fight...where as mama guys tend to go down after a handful of blows. Wouldn't wanna make a living doing either though.

 

 

Also hits to the head are not nearly as common in MMA. The majority of MMA fights go to the ground early and end in submission. Boxing is basically constant head shots.

[oldunclemark]

Still don't mean the NFL should leave these guys out to rot in the sunset. That's the excuse "it's a violent game, you paid the price" they paid the price and the NFL took it to the bank. They've done a very poor job taking care of the former greats of the league while they contentiously profit from their image and sell the game.

 

This is why the bounty thing was so stupid. They pulled that crap to make it appear like they really care about player safety. The NFL profits from all those big hits and stuff like Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White giving quarterbacks monster sacks. Defenses like the old Bears or 70's Steelers are still sold as the face of the NFL even though they favor quarterbacks more than any these days.

 

 

For a tax exempt organization such as the NFL that rakes in billions of dollars every year, the least they could do is give players healthcare or something to help them, since after all they are the ones that sacrifice their bodies to play in this league.

 

It is the NFL's fault on their behalf for doing nothing about it and then raising all this nonsense "we care about player safety" yeah they sure do by leaving guys like Dorsett, Earl Campbell, and the multiple others out to decay in their terrible body conditions.

Bogie..

I cannot agree at all..

When you make life decisions you MUST be responsible. NFL players cant take millions of dollars to play football and then sure the people who paid them because they didn't tell them it was a life-shortening profession.. Everybody who plays football is shortening their life. That's just not being honest.

..I feel bad for Earl Campbell and Tony Dorsett..but they lived high-profile, rich men dangerous lives..and nothing the NFL can pay them now is going to lengthen their life....or ease their head trauma

Just for the record Tony Dorsett and Earl Campbell (and all NFL players who played 4 years, I believe) get cash money pensions from the NFL.. The league is not forcing people to play. Why does anybody blame the NFL for football head injuries that CERTAINLY began long before the victims got to the NFL.......so they can get a check?

..and why does the NFLPA, by themsleves, take care of brain damaged players?

These are union members and the union should take care of their needs

[bayone]

Good stuff Barry, Thanks for the find, and keep us posted on info you come across or your brother shares.

 

not sure when brother grets back fro,m vacation and sure will talk about mom etc, and g he likes not thinking Medicne as works hard, albeit 2 weeks on , 2 weeks vacation latel;y but when on thats long hours and also is only one os his group that does some intervential treatment besides his diagnopstic speciality when asked

 

However this note on brain scan but here are multipler articles on variety topics involving head trauma and football

 

9 to start , click load more and kjust keeps adding articles and related topics

 

http://mmqb.si.com/tag/head-trauma-in-football-a-special-report/

[bayone]

Good stuff Barry, Thanks for the find, and keep us posted on info you come across or your brother shares.

 

Brother says thats basicaly only one tiny study  done  , problem is do they just have symtooms or actuaal  CTE and until this is established with much more testing, similar history of like injuries etc etc  and then maybe a required death and post autopsy verification, may not be able to say for sure its accurate for CTE evem if density aand patterns found are like those of CTE

 

Very preliminary, but still with more subjects even if not true CTE but can show some cognitive correlation may be useful tool eventualy to help with some type of therapy to slow such cognitive issues advance whether CTE or whatever the cause

 

again very early stages, oofferes promising hope for future possible delaying therapies, may need someone to  unfortunately die to be allowed by scientific community to recognize its a valid CTE test if autopsy  shows CTE in individuals with positive tests while living & , that  may  take years till someone passes and if family allows autopsy 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Brother says thats basicaly only one tiny study  done  , problem is do they just have symtooms or actuaal  CTE and until this is established with much more testing, similar history of like injuries etc etc  and then maybe a required death and post autopsy verification, may not be able to say for sure its accurate for CTE evem if density aand patterns found are like those of CTE

 

Very preliminary, but still with more subjects even if not true CTE but can show some cognitive correlation may be useful tool eventualy to help with some type of therapy to slow such cognitive issues advance whether CTE or whatever the cause

 

again very early stages, oofferes promising hope for future possible delaying therapies, may need someone to  unfortunately die to be allowed by scientific community to recognize its a valid CTE test if autopsy  shows CTE in individuals with positive tests while living & , that  may  take years till someone passes and if family allows autopsy 

 

So one of the posters was right inasking about checking on all sorts of subjects.  They are, and it's early so while promising,  not yet conclusive; if you get your meaning/  Thanks!

[bayone]

So one of the posters was right inasking about checking on all sorts of subjects.  They are, and it's early so while promising,  not yet conclusive; if you get your meaning/  Thanks!

 

yeah, its promising, but no standards yet to say anything definitive,  no idea about what further studies will include, but a main issue untill someone dies and has brain autopsied that had this test u cant say this test is definitive even then is 1st autopsy done even enough in a study , unless many many more participants with varied backgrounds and life histories have tests and correlate finding s with symptoms  then something may help in developing  therapies for some cognitive disorder slowing , but whomever decides it equates to CTE would have to have standard of diagnosis changed to not require an autopsy , until that 1st 1 or 2 autopsies that may or may not happen & who knoww what policies will be in effect at any given time that changes the current  standard diagnostic procedure to something else ,  but much more has to be done first

 

sorry if that confusing

 

HOWEVER the Govt & CDC can also do what they want if they feel things warrant it  for the health of the people ,  ----   as for example right now

 

Right now the 7th  current case of meningitis has  turned up at Princeton university, ( thats 7 at Princeton, not 7 in US )  and CDC is bringing in something they never did as situation is considered unprecedented & taking unprecedented measures so u never know what an official can decide about CTE with more stusdies and understanding of cognitive dysfunction if its felt warranted enough

 

, Menigitis is a term that says immediate warrant , will CTE & cognitive dysfunction ever get that reputation or respect is a question too ??

 

but RE Princton they are bringing in a vaccine not licensed for use in the US  

 

Officials at Princeton University in New Jersey are considering measures to stop the spread of meningitis on the Ivy League campus.

 

A spokeswoman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says federal health officials have agreed to import Bexsero, a vaccine licensed in Europe and Australia but not the U.S.

 

This week, Princeton officials confirmed the school's seventh case of meningitis in 2013. A spokesman says trustees will discuss the issue this weekend.

 

Video says US Govt is making an unprecedented move to bring in a non fda approved vaccine, even though the FDA has some vaccines for condition but not this particular rare bacterial cause &  the US / school is afraid of the spread, if school decides to allow its use,,Princetons Board of trustees this weekend  has to vote on it & will decide on its use at the school ,  apparently the Govt already has even though not FDA approved agreed to bring it in & allow useof it , it will be optional and not forced on the students if the school allows it

 

Video says CDC is telling the students the risk is high to get the disease

 

I would assume the school is weighing the liability of use of a non FDA aapproved vaccine even with govt approval

 

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/16/princeton-university-meningtis-vaccine_n_4288512.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl16%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D407140