PFF Analysis Notebook: Trent Richardson.

[bayone]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/23/analysis-notebook-bonus-edition/

 

 

while I like the article

 

PFF statistics in way are complied and assign points  in Colt beat down on Denver actually had Von Miller as played better than Mathis 

 

yet anyone seeing the game knows who had the impact , like where was Von miller, I will tell u he said he was dissapointed he couldnt get a sack 

 

this was in a denver article  actually when the denver post or mile high report was commenting on Von Millers game Vs Colts   pointing to the less than useful, value of statistics  in general without knowing how complied, and then they broke down showing why PFF rated Miller Over Mathis, really was simple math and forgot what was used but article noted  not taking into account extra value for the sacks and impact of strip sacck & safty  Mathios caused   invalidates the final # that favors Miller by more than just a touch

[Dustin]

while I like the article

PFF statistics in way are complied and assign points in Colt beat down on Denver actually had Von Miller as played better than Mathis

yet anyone seeing the game knows who had the impact , like where was Von miller, I will tell u he said he was dissapointed he couldnt get a sack

this was in a denver article actually when the denver post or mile high report was commenting on Von Millers game Vs Colts pointing to the less than useful, value of statistics in general without knowing how complied, and then they broke down showing why PFF rated Miller Over Mathis, really was simple math and forgot what was used but article noted not taking into account extra value for the sacks and impact of strip sacck & safty Mathios caused invalidates the final # that favors Miller by more than just a touch

Actually Mathis was the 2nd highet graded player in the entire game behind Vontae.

Mathis' grade was +6.4 and Miller's was +4.5.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/21/pff-reaction-blog-week-7-2/

[BleedBlu8792]

Richardson has been ran from different formations as well, Maybe if he figured out Anthony Castonzo is easily our best blocker (all around this year) and not go looking for contact (jump cutting directly into a pile vs the Broncos that led to his fumble instead of showing patience and reading 1 of 2 holes that were open on that play....1 by Castonzo........The other by Linkenbach and Thornton which Richardson stopped and looked at but continued on turned his back to the pile and tried to churn out yards with his legs before fumbling

He's MAYBE had 10 runs that weren't in the power/jumbo set. I don't think there's any coincidence that those have been his best runs. Again, its no coincidence that Brown can't even make it back to the line of scrimmage when in the same power formations that Trent has had to run out of. People are COMPLETELY naive if they think he's going to be a 5+ ypc guy running from those formations. I'd take ANY 8-man front against our 8 man lines. Its actually quite impressive that Richardson is getting the yards he is getting when the A gap between Satele/McGlynn is completely busted from the time Luck takes the exchange from Satele.

What's funny is you talking about him having "patience". "Patience" takes time, which this line seems to continue to struggle with giving. Richardson is doing exactly what this scheme asks for, which is to grind. I absolutely hate it, as its giving him virtually no opportunity to get head on with a DB/S. Again, I'd take ANY defensive 8-man front against our 8-man line. Look at Lacy with the Packers, do you think McCarthy is going to run power/jumbo formations inside the 20's with the respect Rodgers gets from other teams? Lacy is the EXACT same runner that Richardson is and their O-line is as bad as ours, yet they still make Rodgers the focal point of the play keeping the defense guessing. They aren't telegraphing anything and Lacy has really started taking off now that he's healthy. To add, Richardson will never be a guy whose goimg to bounce outside and take off, he's not that type of runner. It's clear to see his lateral movement is limited, but I believe a play like the Colts old stretch play would be very valuable for a guy like Trent. Let him get that one cut between the guard/tackle and let him go. Play action would be absolutely lethal as well.

This isn't a fire Pep rant or our offense stinks rant, but more to the "stat sheet" guys who obviously are incompetent to what they are actually seeing amd want to lay blame on the guy who is working the best he can with the handicapped offense he's in.

I think there is WAY too much overreaction due to the fact that people are looking for these gaudy stats that perhaps th coaches don't really care about. Again, perhaps they want the "grind it/body blow" type runs instead.

[bayone]

Actually Mathis was the 2nd highet graded player in the entire game behind Vontae.

Mathis' grade was +6.4 and Miller's was +4.5.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/21/pff-reaction-blog-week-7-2/

 

I searched but couldnt find the article i was quoiting

 

Dustin thanks, Know i read article correct , as Denver author was shocked of results & he was one to suggest put more value for impact of a particular play on a game to overcome this

 

so either it wasnt PFF he was quoting or he read the final; stat sheet wrong

 

he did note Vonte in it as grading best

 

Weird, anyway off to Drs, truly appreciate u correcting what i wrote and educating me or rather further pointing out that everything we read isnt gospel just because its in print, its like the TV commercial that says how do u know, because the internet never lies

[NewEra]

Richardson has been ran from different formations as well, Maybe if he figured out Anthony Castonzo is easily our best blocker (all around this year) and not go looking for contact (jump cutting directly into a pile vs the Broncos that led to his fumble instead of showing patience and reading 1 of 2 holes that were open on that play....1 by Castonzo........The other by Linkenbach and Thornton which Richardson stopped and looked at but continued on turned his back to the pile and tried to churn out yards with his legs before fumbling

You guys kill me with the fumbling remark. He didn't just run up and get popped and drop the ball. He was stood up by the linemen and they came in and stripped him. If anything the ya should have been called dead. But let's not act like he fumbles the ball. The D made a great play on the ball. They weren't even trying to take him down.

[NewEra]

He's MAYBE had 10 runs that weren't in the power/jumbo set. I don't think there's any coincidence that those have been his best runs. Again, its no coincidence that Brown can't even make it back to the line of scrimmage when in the same power formations that Trent has had to run out of. People are COMPLETELY naive if they think he's going to be a 5+ ypc guy running from those formations. I'd take ANY 8-man front against our 8 man lines. Its actually quite impressive that Richardson is getting the yards he is getting when the A gap between Satele/McGlynn is completely busted from the time Luck takes the exchange from Satele.

What's funny is you talking about him having "patience". "Patience" takes time, which this line seems to continue to struggle with giving. Richardson is doing exactly what this scheme asks for, which is to grind. I absolutely hate it, as its giving him virtually no opportunity to get head on with a DB/S. Again, I'd take ANY defensive 8-man front against our 8-man line. Look at Lacy with the Packers, do you think McCarthy is going to run power/jumbo formations inside the 20's with the respect Rodgers gets from other teams? Lacy is the EXACT same runner that Richardson is and their O-line is as bad as ours, yet they still make Rodgers the focal point of the play keeping the defense guessing. They aren't telegraphing anything and Lacy has really started taking off now that he's healthy. To add, Richardson will never be a guy whose goimg to bounce outside and take off, he's not that type of runner. It's clear to see his lateral movement is limited, but I believe a play like the Colts old stretch play would be very valuable for a guy like Trent. Let him get that one cut between the guard/tackle and let him go. Play action would be absolutely lethal as well.

This isn't a fire Pep rant or our offense stinks rant, but more to the "stat sheet" guys who obviously are incompetent to what they are actually seeing amd want to lay blame on the guy who is working the best he can with the handicapped offense he's in.

I think there is WAY too much overreaction due to the fact that people are looking for these gaudy stats that perhaps th coaches don't really care about. Again, perhaps they want the "grind it/body blow" type runs instead.

Well said my man, I could care less about his ypc as long as he is grinding out yards and getting first downs. It's Peps play calling that is reflecting his yardage. We are not trying to rip yards. We are trying to pound it at people and enforce our will. When they have ran him in different formations he had ripped off bigger runs. And he is a beasts out in space, to not get him more touches in the pass is just silly. I personally think they are just easing him into the play book. I think we will see more after the bye and as the season goes on.

[luckyblue]

... Says the guy who said this:

 

"Who cares if he's a good blocker, I'm sure you could find someone off the practice squad who is a good blocker, that's not what we need"

 

Umm no, no sir, you don't know very much about football with the statement YOU made above...

And I suppose you know a lot more about football than me troll lol Your probably another poor sap on here that thinks Richardson is a good back that was worth us giving up our number 1 draft pick for. I was stating that first and foremost you need a guy that is a good runner that has way more than a 3 ypc average which Richardson is averaging, my comment above was to a guy that said well atleast he's a good blocker, of course we need our runners to be good blockers too, but to just be a good blocker and nothing else is ridiculous.

[NewEra]

And I suppose you know a lot more about football than me troll lol Your probably another poor sap on here that thinks Richardson is a good back that was worth us giving up our number 1 draft pick for. I was stating that first and foremost you need a guy that is a good runner that has way more than a 3 ypc average which Richardson is averaging, my comment above was to a guy that said well atleast he's a good blocker, of course we need our runners to be good blockers too, but to just be a good blocker and nothing else is ridiculous.

First of all, he's in his second year on a new team. Still learning the playbook and dendencies of the oline. Second he is doing exactly what PEP is asking him to do. Run the ball hard, save Luck with some pretty sweet blocks. He's not the one calling the plays and putting him in obvious running formations. He also can't throw the ball to himself. We are not looking for him to be a home run hitter. When given the chance to run out of different formations he had ripped off big yards. We also don't nearly get him involved in the pass game enough. Get him in space and he will really do damage. I'm sorry you can't observe all of this with your own eyes.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

What is your problem man! Who cares if he's a good blocker, I'm sure you could find someone off the practice squad who is a good blocker, that's not what we need, we need someone who can run the ball effectively. The guy hasn't shown anything even close to being worthy of giving up our number 1 draft choice, are you going to deny that man?

Just to clarify, we have a first round draft choice, not a number 1 pick. And with each win we have, that pick is worth less and less. A from office does a lot of scouting for talent. I'm sure they had their eye on a few players that have potential, but that was watching college players against college players. They got to watch TRich against NFL players and maybe saw some potential there that you have missed. Frankly of the two, I'd go with potential vs NFL opponents over potential vs collegiate opponents.

[Le Neon]

Actually, Ballard's production has been every bit as good, if not slightly better, than Richardson's so far in their NFL careers-- and Ballard's production was ascending before his injury.  Vick even has a higher Pass Blocking Efficiency rating than Trent per PFF (Donald Brown does too BTW). Don't sell Ballard short.  I'd actually rather have a healthy Ballard at the moment.

I wouldn't. I like Ballard fine, he'll be a valuable backup to Richardson next season. Richardson has 11 more rushing tds, more speed, more size, more yards etc etc.

Ballards ascending production consists of 60 yards gained against Oakland in the opener. He wasn't going to hold off Bradshaw for long.

[Dustin]

I wouldn't. I like Ballard fine, he'll be a valuable backup to Richardson next season. Richardson has 11 more rushing tds, more speed, more size, more yards etc etc.

Ballards ascending production consists of 60 yards gained against Oakland in the opener. He wasn't going to hold off Bradshaw for long.

Ballard had a like 4.6 YPC game his only game of the season.

[MR. Blueblood]

He's MAYBE had 10 runs that weren't in the power/jumbo set. I don't think there's any coincidence that those have been his best runs. Again, its no coincidence that Brown can't even make it back to the line of scrimmage when in the same power formations that Trent has had to run out of. People are COMPLETELY naive if they think he's going to be a 5+ ypc guy running from those formations. I'd take ANY 8-man front against our 8 man lines. Its actually quite impressive that Richardson is getting the yards he is getting when the A gap between Satele/McGlynn is completely busted from the time Luck takes the exchange from Satele.

What's funny is you talking about him having "patience". "Patience" takes time, which this line seems to continue to struggle with giving. Richardson is doing exactly what this scheme asks for, which is to grind. I absolutely hate it, as its giving him virtually no opportunity to get head on with a DB/S. Again, I'd take ANY defensive 8-man front against our 8-man line. Look at Lacy with the Packers, do you think McCarthy is going to run power/jumbo formations inside the 20's with the respect Rodgers gets from other teams? Lacy is the EXACT same runner that Richardson is and their O-line is as bad as ours, yet they still make Rodgers the focal point of the play keeping the defense guessing. They aren't telegraphing anything and Lacy has really started taking off now that he's healthy. To add, Richardson will never be a guy whose goimg to bounce outside and take off, he's not that type of runner. It's clear to see his lateral movement is limited, but I believe a play like the Colts old stretch play would be very valuable for a guy like Trent. Let him get that one cut between the guard/tackle and let him go. Play action would be absolutely lethal as well.

This isn't a fire Pep rant or our offense stinks rant, but more to the "stat sheet" guys who obviously are incompetent to what they are actually seeing amd want to lay blame on the guy who is working the best he can with the handicapped offense he's in.

I think there is WAY too much overreaction due to the fact that people are looking for these gaudy stats that perhaps th coaches don't really care about. Again, perhaps they want the "grind it/body blow" type runs instead.

Be careful, that guy watched some coaching videos and watches a lot of tape, over and over and over again.....there's no way you can know more than he does.

 

I tried to make the same argument about having "patience" in another thread.  I was told he's not going to get in a back and forth about it, let's see if you get the same response I did. 

[azcolt]

I don't recall seeing other articles written by the author of this one. He writes well. Too bad he doesn't research as well as he writes. Richardson is the best reason to ditch the power running game and throw the ball around.

[Le Neon]

Ballard had a like 4.6 YPC game his only game of the season.

On his way to the pro bowl through one half against the Raiders. I seriously do like him though. He was looking promising before he went down.

[Dustin]

On his way to the pro bowl through one half against the Raiders. I seriously do like him though. He was looking promising before he went down.

who he played is irrelevant, you were basically saying he had a bad game vs the raiders.

[ponyboy]

I wouldn't. I like Ballard fine, he'll be a valuable backup to Richardson next season. Richardson has 11 more rushing tds, more speed, more size, more yards etc etc.

Ballards ascending production consists of 60 yards gained against Oakland in the opener. He wasn't going to hold off Bradshaw for long.

 

Yes, I'd agree Bradshaw was going to take at least half the carries from Vick.

 

I was really referring to the end of the 2012 season and going into 2013 for his increasing production.

 

Ballard's yards/game for weeks 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16:

11 ypg (wk 1-4), 56 ypg (wk 5-8),  51 ypg (wk 9-12), 86 ypg (wk 13-16), 63 (wk 1 2013)

 

Ballard's yards/carry:

2.0 ypc (wk 1-4), 4.0 ypc (wk 5-8),  4.0 ypc (wk 9-12), 4.1 ypc (wk 13-16), 4.8 (wk 1 2013)

 

Just trying to give Vick due credit for a fine rookie season and a promising start to 2013.

[Gavin]

You guys kill me with the fumbling remark. He didn't just run up and get popped and drop the ball. He was stood up by the linemen and they came in and stripped him. If anything the ya should have been called dead. But let's not act like he fumbles the ball. The D made a great play on the ball. They weren't even trying to take him down.

He was still going forward on the play after he jumped cut into Fleener and turned his back to the LOS, Now maybe he was being held up but there is no way to know looking at the ALL 22 angles if he was being held up or it was just the pile itself not enabling him to go down(3 Broncos were around him) but he was still going forward....If he chooses 1 of the 2 holes that were open then he dont get held up by a pile, I will say Linkenbach got knocked back on the plat that slowed down Thornton who was the pulling guard on the play which certainly through off the timing of the play development

[LockeDown]

I still can't help but visualize Grigson watching tape of all the Browns games last year with Trent before he made his decision to give up a first for him. He had to make his case with Irsay first and then Pagano and Pep. Were there any dissenting votes? I haven't heard any rumors saying so. My point is that I refuse to believe that they could all be wrong about Trent as some of you suggest. Do you think Everytime Trent gets 2 yards that Pep is thinking, I told them so? No. They are on board with this young man and will eventually get the play calling right for us and him. Basically, some of you are saying that our FO got fooled and I just don't see that being totally possible.

[Le Neon]

who he played is irrelevant, you were basically saying he had a bad game vs the raiders.

I didn't say that, I'm saying he had an incomplete game. He would have been a big part of the offense, but what he actually contributed was 58 total yards. It's impossible to speculate from that how effective he might have been. This thread being about pff, I think it's fair to mention they graded his performance rushing as a 0.0, meaning they saw him taking what he was given by his blocking against Oakland.

I like Vick, but imho he was holding down the starting job until Bradshaw was healthy enough to take it.

[Le Neon]

Yes, I'd agree Bradshaw was going to take at least half the carries from Vick. I was really referring to the end of the 2012 season and going into 2013 for his increasing production. Ballard's yards/game for weeks 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16:11 ypg (wk 1-4), 56 ypg (wk 5-8),  51 ypg (wk 9-12), 86 ypg (wk 13-16), 63 (wk 1 2013) Ballard's yards/carry:2.0 ypc (wk 1-4), 4.0 ypc (wk 5-8),  4.0 ypc (wk 9-12), 4.1 ypc (wk 13-16), 4.8 (wk 1 2013) Just trying to give Vick due credit for a fine rookie season and a promising start to 2013.

I agree there is potential there, though my inexpert opinion puts his ceiling as kind of a Ben Tate or Lamont Jordan.

Also noticed you didn't include week 17. I imagine that would have dipped his YPC into the high 3's, though your point is still a good one.