Will Marvin be a first-ballot hof'er? [Merge]

[BOTT]

was it taken into consideration when rice got in on first ballot?

Rice played with mediocre quarterbacks?

[CantBeStopped]

Rice played with mediocre quarterbacks?

no but are you not saying that is a deciding factor between brown and marv? If not i misunderstood and apologize

[BOTT]

no but are you not saying that is a deciding factor between brown and marv? If not i misunderstood and apologize

Not the deciding factor...but I think it's reasonable to acknowledge the circumstances when comparing players of similar stature.

[GoColts8818]

Again I just don't get, we are Colts fans we are supposed to be the ones talking up our guys for the Hall not tearing them down.  I am not asking for blind loyalty, as even I have admitted Dungy probably isn't going in on the first ballot, but at the same time it seems like some fans are trying to find any reason they can to keep Marvin out of the Hall. 

[bahhummbug]

Marvin will get in but I do not see him 1st ballot.There not suppose to use off field issues but uh yah right

[crazycolt1]

Marvin was simply the BEST WR the Colts ever had...and yes, I am including Raymond Berry...and yes I watched Raymond Berry play...A LOT.

And yes, Marvin is better than Reggie.

Well Marvin and Reggie do have two eyes. 

[crazycolt1]

Show me another HOF WR whose postseason production dropped as much as Marvin's, even when they were the only legitimate receiving threat on their team, and I'll get excited about getting him a bust in Canton.

Gale Sayers never played a playoff game in his career. 

[crazycolt1]

Hey, why doesn't NFL Network or ESPN 30 for 30 document what campaigning for a successful HOF bid really entails? Use Marvin Harrison & Charles Haley as your test cases. I want somebody like Haley used because he refuses to kiss the media's caboose. A player can let their record speak for itself without stroking the egos of reporters IMO. Be respectful without selling your soul to the media devil IMO. It's not easy. But like Johnny Cash sang "I walk the line."

 

Explore what's really involved. Developing an intense fan club, going on a national radio media tour, speaking directly with your state senator, doing interviews on 60 minutes Steve Kroft a superb investigative journalist. Talk about the current state of the league, penalties stacked up against defense, the evolution of the league over time, & whether many reporters who never played a down of pro ball deserve the supreme authority to decide who gets a bust in Canton & who doesn't. 

 

Also, what credentials are required to get on the HOF list as a writer & former player & what is protocol for replacing a person who resigns from this list & evaluating other players? SW1 wants to eat the forbidden fruit & see behind the mysterious curtain. Just like politics & legislation, how is the sausage in HOF circles really made? Hmmm....

I think the Doobie Brothers and Rush deserve to be in the hall of fame also. 

[Le Neon]

Again I just don't get, we are Colts fans we are supposed to be the ones talking up our guys for the Hall not tearing them down.  I am not asking for blind loyalty, as even I have admitted Dungy probably isn't going in on the first ballot, but at the same time it seems like some fans are trying to find any reason they can to keep Marvin out of the Hall. 

 

I think most Colts fans expect him to go to the hall of fame, he just doesn't have the numbers to put himself head and shoulders above the field, which you usually need to go on the first ballot.  

 

It's unfortunate because I like to think he would have if not for the injury.  He wasn't quite the same when he came back.  

[CantBeStopped]

He dorent have the numbers? Who has better numbers? Rice is about it besides for 2 wrs who playrd in the leagur until thry pretty much got laughed out of it

[ruksak]

I think most Colts fans expect him to go to the hall of fame, he just doesn't have the numbers to put himself head and shoulders above the field, which you usually need to go on the first ballot.  

 

 

What?

 

Marvin represents 50% of the leagues most prolific QB/WR scoring tandem in history. He's got the numbers, a ring and two conference championships. 

[Le Neon]

You bolded the wrong part of that sentence. The "head and shoulders" part is the salient bit.

He isn't head and shoulders ahead of Tim Brown, some in this thread have argued for Hines Ward (though I don't agree he's on the same level) and some will argue for Andre Reed. And that's just in his own position.

He'll go, but it could take a year or two.

[IndyTrav]

Its not that he doesn't have the numbers. Its that the numbers he does have, he got from the same guys that are still waiting (Reed) and a guy who just got in, Carter. None of who got in on first ballot. Now that Carter is in, I do think Marvin makes it, but not near the first ballot.

 

 

Here is Kravtiz new article, figuring its first ballot for him. 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130809/SPORTS15/308090038/Bob-Kravitz-Peyton-Manning-Marvin-Harrison-will-reluctantly-make-Hall-Fame-speech

[Hans Moleman]

Nah, he probably won't be first ballot. And it won't be his fault*.

 

Here's why:

1) Glut of WR's waiting to get in. (It shouldn't matter. It does.)

2) Bad media presence (It shouldn't matter. It does.)

3) Tougher to get in if you don't play for one of the glamour franchises. (It shouldn't matter. It does.)

 

 

 

 

*unlike his penchant for a crazy dual-life like Wayne Brady from Chappelle's Show lol

[GoColts8818]

I think most Colts fans expect him to go to the hall of fame, he just doesn't have the numbers to put himself head and shoulders above the field, which you usually need to go on the first ballot.  

 

It's unfortunate because I like to think he would have if not for the injury.  He wasn't quite the same when he came back.  

Marvin retired with numbers good enough to be argued as the second greatest WR in the history of the NFL.  So unless you think Jerry Rice is the only WR that has business going in as a first ballot HOFer then the case for keeping Marvin out on the first ballot if pretty hard.  Frankly other than Peter King, who even admits he probably will but just said it's not a slam dunk in his eyes, just about anyone who follows the NFL and is paid to study this stuff says Marvin will go in on the first ballot.  The people who don't oddly enough are Colts fans and that's the part I just don't get. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Marvin retired with numbers good enough to be argued as the second greatest WR in the history of the NFL.  So unless you think Jerry Rice is the only WR that has business going in as a first ballot HOFer then the case for keeping Marvin out on the first ballot if pretty hard.  Frankly other than Peter King, who even admits he probably will but just said it's not a slam dunk in his eyes, just about anyone who follows the NFL and is paid to study this stuff says Marvin will go in on the first ballot.  The people who don't oddly enough are Colts fans and that's the part I just don't get. 

Yeah, I have to be honest I don't even think it's a question.  I'm trying to look at it objectively, but to me anyone with a vote that passes on Marvin even on the first ballot, should just quit their profession.  I don't want too sound to much like a homer, but this is ridiculous.  Marvin would be, at absolute worst, 3rd WR of the decade he played in behind Randy Moss, and TO.  As of right now Marvin is a top 5 WR of all time.  If being in the top 5 ALL TIME at your position doesn't get you in on the first ballot, then the voting procedure needs to be changed.

[open window]

I really think this is a no-brainer, yes!

[GoColts8818]

You bolded the wrong part of that sentence. The "head and shoulders" part is the salient bit.

He isn't head and shoulders ahead of Tim Brown, some in this thread have argued for Hines Ward (though I don't agree he's on the same level) and some will argue for Andre Reed. And that's just in his own position.

He'll go, but it could take a year or two.

Hines Ward is NOT in the conversation for next year so comparing Marvin to Hines Ward for next year is a moot point.  Even if you do compare them though Marvin has far better numbers than Ward, heck Reggie Wayne has better numbers than Ward for the most part and Reggie is still behind Marvin by a fairly good chunk in most cases and this is where numbers really do matter. 

 

His numbers are above Tim Brown, except for yards where Brown is 5th and Marvin is 6th even if it's not head and shoulders.  After Tim Brown the next best WR who isn't in that is eligible is probably Andre Reed.  Marvin is Head and Shoulders above Andre Reed.  Marvin is top five in just about every receiving career record and where he's not he's ranked like sixth.  Reed is in the top 15 in most receiving categories for a career. 

[Le Neon]

If he hadn't been hurt Marvin would've approached Jerry Rice. As it is he's in Tim Brown's zip code, not all alone. That's all I'm saying, it might take a year. Maybe I'm giving Brown's nearly 20,000 all purpose yards too much weight. But he does have 5000 yards more than Marvin in that category. Marvin has ~25 more tds, which is probably a more influential stat. :shrug:

I think Marvin is the second greatest receiever I've ever seen behind Rice fwiw. But I don't get a vote.

[BOTT]

If he hadn't been hurt Marvin would've approached Jerry Rice. As it is he's in Tim Brown's zip code, not all alone. That's all I'm saying, it might take a year. Maybe I'm giving Brown's nearly 20,000 all purpose yards too much weight. But he does have 5000 yards more than Marvin in that category. Marvin has ~25 more tds, which is probably a more influential stat. :shrug:

I think Marvin is the second greatest receiever I've ever seen behind Rice fwiw. But I don't get a vote.

Only a Colts fan would think Marvin is the 2nd greatest receiver of all time....no offense.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Only a Colts fan would think Marvin is the 2nd greatest receiver of all time....no offense.

Yeah...It's Rice, Moss, T.O and then we can argue who's next

[IndyTrav]

Carter, Reed, and Brown all were Top 5 in every rec. category upon retirement. And yet, here they are......But it should totally change for Marvin.....  

[Coffeedrinker]

Sure.

Marvin does have him statistically. Ward played 1 more year. Although he sat his rookie year. Games played gives Ward the edge. 217-190...However games started Ward only has 2 more. 190-188.

Marvin was part of an elite passing attack, indoors, for nearly all of his career, with THE premier QB, as well as a future potential HoF at the #2, and other good weapons.

Ward played on a run first, defense oriented outdoor team (arguably the worst field in the NFL), that had a good, not great QB, and really no other offensive weapons.

So Marvin has 100 more receptions, 2497yds, 43TDs (only 2097 more total yards 42 total TDs (Ward had a few rushes))....Marvin is the clear winner in TDs. However rec, and yards aren't really as far apart as some would think....Hines played an additional year, and his team still attempted 443 less passes (about a season for Pitt, roughly 483att avg per season for Hines career in Pitt, 558att on avg for Indy)...And now factor in that Ward is arguably the greatest blocking WR of all time, how much did that hinder Hines rec #s?

In the playoffs, Ward played 2 more games, and had more: 23rec, 298yards, and 8TDs...He is the clear winner in the playoffs. Even Indy fans know Marvin didnt show up on the playoffs....

Marvin had 8PB, and 3 AP....Ward never had an AP season, but had 4PB, AND a SB MVP.

Marvin has superior stats, a few accolades, and a SB. And has disappeared.

Ward has stats, was a renowned blocker, a few accolades, 2SB, plays for a HoF loved franchise, and is now a media member.

This race will be a lot closer than any Colts fan will care to admit. Marvin has the head start, as he retired earlier, but with Brooks, Strahan, Thomas, Dungy, Walter Jones, Bruce(Holt), Seau, Warner, Farve, TO, Faneca all avail in the next 3 years, on top of the guys still waiting like Greene, Reed, Brown, Bettis etc...The chances of the 2 being on the same ballot are pretty high.

***Fun with #s, taking Wards career avgs, and adding in the same amount of attempts (443), Marvin would only have roughly 38 more rec. 1700 more yards***

Your numbers don't make a lot of sense.  Ward played in 27 more games than Harrison (just over a season and half more) and yet Harrison had 100 more receptions (about a season and a half more), 2400+ more yards (almost 2 seasons worth of yards_ and 43 TDs... about 4 seasons worth of TDs and yet those numbers are similar? ( I know you did say Harrison had a clear TD advantage) but the yards and catches are not even close either.

 

And if you want to have fun with numbers, if Harrison played in as many games as Ward (which is as valid a comparison as saying if Ward has the same number of attempts because there are reason why the QB didn't throw him the ball).  Harrison would have an additional 156 receptions, 2072 more yards, and 18 more TDs.  So in total, 256 more receptions, 4,570 more yards and 61 more TDs.

 

I liked Ward a lot as a player, he was fun to watch, very consistent, great team player and never complained openly about anything.  He is everything you want in a football player... but he's not really close to Harrison as a receiver.

[Le Neon]

T.O. was a cancer. Everywhere he went the team fell to pieces or otherwise failed to achieve. And he didn't have great hands. Possibly in my top 10, not top 5 for certain.

Moss is certainly debatable. Great deep threat and had one of the all time great seasons.

Harrison had elite speed, exceptionally rare hands and body control. And hall of fame production. And a ring, for whatever that's worth as a wide receiver.

No offense taken, but to my eyes Rice was the only one better. I realize others will disagree.

Only a Colts fan would think Marvin is the 2nd greatest receiver of all time....no offense.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

T.O. was a cancer. Everywhere he went the team fell to pieces or otherwise failed to achieve. And he didn't have great hands. Possibly in my top 10, not top 5 for certain.

Moss is certainly debatable. Great deep threat and had one of the all time great seasons.

Harrison had elite speed, exceptionally rare hands and body control. And hall of fame production. And a ring, for whatever that's worth as a wide receiver.

No offense taken, but to my eyes Rice was the only one better. I realize others will disagree.

 

We could debate forever who falls in line after Rice...I think we all agree on one thing: Marvin Harrison is a sure fire Hall Of Famer, it's just a matter of how soon.

[BOTT]

T.O. was a cancer. Everywhere he went the team fell to pieces or otherwise failed to achieve. And he didn't have great hands. Possibly in my top 10, not top 5 for certain.

Moss is certainly debatable. Great deep threat and had one of the all time great seasons.

Harrison had elite speed, exceptionally rare hands and body control. And hall of fame production. And a ring, for whatever that's worth as a wide receiver.

No offense taken, but to my eyes Rice was the only one better. I realize others will disagree.

For the record, wouldn't put Owens anywhere my top 5. Jimmy Johnson once put together a compilation of Owens' most memorable drops....to say the least it wasn't pretty. And like you said, the guy was a cancer.

Moss, I would be torn about. He is kind of a head case, soft, and isn't the all around receiver I prefer.

[superrep1967]

Just started thinking about this when reading the 'mt. rushmore' post --

 

IMO, Marvin Harrison should be a hall-of-famer -- he had (number wise) the greatest 8 year stretch of any WR in NFL history (seasons 1999 - 2006).  I always hear a general rule of thumb that to be a HOFer, you need to be dominant for a decade.   After 2006, Marv's production dropped off due to injury, and prior to 1999 he had 3 good, but not 'dominant' seasons. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Harrison  shows a table of his year-by-year stats -- pretty incredible.

 

 

Marv was the 4th WR in NFL history to surpass 1,000 receptions and 1 of 7 to break 100 reception TDs.  At one time, he was 2nd on the all time reception list (he has since been surpassed by Tony Gonzalez, and the only other active player that I think might pass him any time soon would be Reggie Wayne (he is 134 receptions shy, I hope he has at least 2 more 70+ reception seasons here in Indy, serious injury is the only thing that could stop that, IMO).  If Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald stay healthy, they too have a good shot to surpass Marv in the next 3-5 years.

 

Marv was extremely durable, prior to his knee injury in 2007, he only missed games due to injury 1 other time (1998, when he sat out 4).  He is arguably the best route-runner of all time.

 

Now here is where things get interesting -- Cris Carter (who prior to Marv had the 2nd best numbers of all time) took forever to get into the HOF (presumably b/c of some off-field issues that plagued him early in his career).  While Marvin was in Indy, I always thought he was a stand-up person -- humble, quiet, dedicated-- traits missing from most elite WR's in his era.  I was shocked to hear his affilitation with some thugs in Philly after his retirement, and the accusations that he punched a teenager in the face in HI during pro-bowl week during his career.  While he was never convicted, I have to wonder if the shooting incidents will effect Marv's HOF status.  The other knock against him, which I think is bogus, is going to be that he played with Peyton Manning when the other elite WR's of his time (mainly Randy Moss and TO) did not have a long time to play with 'elite' QBs (TO had Steve Young early in his career, but otherwise never a future HOF QB, while I don't think Moss ever had a HOF QB).  I think it is bogus, b/c Marv and Peyton broke every QB/WR duo record there is, and you can argue that Jerry Rice played with 2 elite QBs in Montana and Young. 

 

Marvin retired very quietly, which I expected from him, but made the headlines for some non-football related troubles.  Will this effect his HOF status?  Does he deserve to be on the Colts Mt. Rushmore b/c of his off-field trouble after his career? 

 

I'd vote 'yes' to the HOF, but after researching a lot of his off-field stuff, I have to question his character a bit.  Because of the off-field stuff, I think Reggie Wayne has become my all-time favorite Colt WR.

 

Thoughts?

I totally agree! But the only thing that may keeps Marvin out of the hall is if he gets implicated for the murder in Philly. As far as Reggie I do believe that Reggie is a great guy and yes my favorite receiver of all time. 

[superrep1967]

T.O. was a cancer. Everywhere he went the team fell to pieces or otherwise failed to achieve. And he didn't have great hands. Possibly in my top 10, not top 5 for certain.

Moss is certainly debatable. Great deep threat and had one of the all time great seasons.

Harrison had elite speed, exceptionally rare hands and body control. And hall of fame production. And a ring, for whatever that's worth as a wide receiver.

No offense taken, but to my eyes Rice was the only one better. I realize others will disagree.

 

Yeah Rice is by far the best of all time. 

[FloridaColtsFan]

Just started thinking about this when reading the 'mt. rushmore' post --

 

IMO, Marvin Harrison should be a hall-of-famer -- he had (number wise) the greatest 8 year stretch of any WR in NFL history (seasons 1999 - 2006).  I always hear a general rule of thumb that to be a HOFer, you need to be dominant for a decade.   After 2006, Marv's production dropped off due to injury, and prior to 1999 he had 3 good, but not 'dominant' seasons. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Harrison  shows a table of his year-by-year stats -- pretty incredible.

 

 

Marv was the 4th WR in NFL history to surpass 1,000 receptions and 1 of 7 to break 100 reception TDs.  At one time, he was 2nd on the all time reception list (he has since been surpassed by Tony Gonzalez, and the only other active player that I think might pass him any time soon would be Reggie Wayne (he is 134 receptions shy, I hope he has at least 2 more 70+ reception seasons here in Indy, serious injury is the only thing that could stop that, IMO).  If Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald stay healthy, they too have a good shot to surpass Marv in the next 3-5 years.

 

Marv was extremely durable, prior to his knee injury in 2007, he only missed games due to injury 1 other time (1998, when he sat out 4).  He is arguably the best route-runner of all time.

 

Now here is where things get interesting -- Cris Carter (who prior to Marv had the 2nd best numbers of all time) took forever to get into the HOF (presumably b/c of some off-field issues that plagued him early in his career).  While Marvin was in Indy, I always thought he was a stand-up person -- humble, quiet, dedicated-- traits missing from most elite WR's in his era.  I was shocked to hear his affilitation with some thugs in Philly after his retirement, and the accusations that he punched a teenager in the face in HI during pro-bowl week during his career.  While he was never convicted, I have to wonder if the shooting incidents will effect Marv's HOF status.  The other knock against him, which I think is bogus, is going to be that he played with Peyton Manning when the other elite WR's of his time (mainly Randy Moss and TO) did not have a long time to play with 'elite' QBs (TO had Steve Young early in his career, but otherwise never a future HOF QB, while I don't think Moss ever had a HOF QB).  I think it is bogus, b/c Marv and Peyton broke every QB/WR duo record there is, and you can argue that Jerry Rice played with 2 elite QBs in Montana and Young. 

 

Marvin retired very quietly, which I expected from him, but made the headlines for some non-football related troubles.  Will this effect his HOF status?  Does he deserve to be on the Colts Mt. Rushmore b/c of his off-field trouble after his career? 

 

I'd vote 'yes' to the HOF, but after researching a lot of his off-field stuff, I have to question his character a bit.  Because of the off-field stuff, I think Reggie Wayne has become my all-time favorite Colt WR.

 

Thoughts?

Marvin was great, he had Biletnikoff (sp) hands, very seldom  dropped balls & caught so many balls that are in the spectacular category that he should be elected a 1st ballot HOF  & if amazingly not , surely a 2nd ballot. I could care less about the other wr's waiting !!!!!  He was blessed to play with Manning, but his catching ability would have made most qb's less talented then Manning look much better than their real talent level.

[FloridaColtsFan]

Its not that he doesn't have the numbers. Its that the numbers he does have, he got from the same guys that are still waiting (Reed) and a guy who just got in, Carter. None of who got in on first ballot. Now that Carter is in, I do think Marvin makes it, but not near the first ballot.

 

 

Here is Kravtiz new article, figuring its first ballot for him. 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130809/SPORTS15/308090038/Bob-Kravitz-Peyton-Manning-Marvin-Harrison-will-reluctantly-make-Hall-Fame-speech

I respectfully disagree. He was a better receiver, most importantly more consistent. & while playing, was humble & never ruffled any feathers and had a clean reputation unlike Carter & others waiting. Kravitz writes to get people talking & start conflicts. He is trying to copy Bob Ryan & other Boston writers who like to ruffle peoples feathers & create conflict & discussions. I lived outside of Boston for 20+ years & Kravitz is a wanna be Boston Globe writer.

[FloridaColtsFan]

The off the field stuff has tarnished my respect for the guy. In fact I don't like him.

It's too bad, but it will and should keep him out of the HoF.

What's wrong with the people dwelling on his ( so called ) off field stuff. The E30 video admitted the 2 so called victims are convicted felons & they both changed their stories more than once during the investigation. We live in the USA, the best by far country in the world. Are you guys on the off field stuff bandwagon really expecting the Philly police to believe 2 thugs? Don't forget in this great country, people are innocent until proven guilty. The alleged happenings I think began in 2008, 5 years & no convictions. MARVIN HARRISON 1st ballot Hall of Famer, or the voters are nit wits !!!!!! 

[FloridaColtsFan]

Yeah...It's Rice, Moss, T.O and then we can argue who's next

T,O, & Moss no way ahead or more deserving than Marvin. They both dropped many balls going across the middle, incosistent at times & didn't put the team first like Marvin did. Marvin is well deserving ahead of those 2 guys & right up there with RICE

[oldunclemark]

he gets in for sure and is still one of GOAT receivers, but I think his severe drop in numbers during the playoffs might hamper him in getting in first ballot.

Nobody has severe drop numbers..its not really a stat

[oldunclemark]

Hines Ward is NOT in the conversation for next year so comparing Marvin to Hines Ward for next year is a moot point.  Even if you do compare them though Marvin has far better numbers than Ward, heck Reggie Wayne has better numbers than Ward for the most part and Reggie is still behind Marvin by a fairly good chunk in most cases and this is where numbers really do matter. 

 

His numbers are above Tim Brown, except for yards where Brown is 5th and Marvin is 6th even if it's not head and shoulders.  After Tim Brown the next best WR who isn't in that is eligible is probably Andre Reed.  Marvin is Head and Shoulders above Andre Reed.  Marvin is top five in just about every receiving career record and where he's not he's ranked like sixth.  Reed is in the top 15 in most receiving categories for a career. 

The Hall-of-Fame is for players..not positions..

 

Tim Browns return numbers DO count on top of his receiving numbers fopr the Hall=of-Fame..

 

Its 2 different discussions...Best WR ever..and new next Hall-of-Famer...WR

 

....Marvin was a better WR than  Tim Brown but Brown was the better player all told

[GoColts8818]

The Hall-of-Fame is for players..not positions..

 

Tim Browns return numbers DO count on top of his receiving numbers fopr the Hall=of-Fame..

 

Its 2 different discussions...Best WR ever..and new next Hall-of-Famer...WR

 

....Marvin was a better WR than  Tim Brown but Brown was the better player all told

If it gets down to the point they are picking between Marvin and Tim Brown they are going to compare them as WRs because that's what they both were.  Yes they will factor in the fact that Tim Brown has more all purpose yards but they will also factor in the fact that Marvin Harrison also has a Super Bowl Ring, owns the NFL record for receptions in a season, Marvin is part of the tandem that holds the records for most TDs and receptions between a QB and WR, and played a team that went to the playoffs 10 of the 13 years he was on it.  I am one of the biggest people to argue that team records should not be used to decide who was the better player but I am not naïve enough to think that people who vote on things like the Hall of Fame over look things like that. 

 

Also, Marvin's numbers for the most part are better than Cris Carter's even if it's close, Marvin is sixth with receiving yards, and Carter is ninth, Marvin is third in receptions, Carter is fourth, Carter is fourth in TDs, Marvin is fifth, Marvin is 33rd all time on the all purpose yards list, Carter is fortieth.  Marvin won a Super Bowl, Carter never even made it to one.  They let Cris Carter in before Tim Brown.  So if Carter's numbers were good enough to get him in before Brown and Marvin's for the most part are better than Carter's it's hard to argue that Brown should go in before Marvin.  They have proven they don't reward for sitting around and waiting they pick the best player to go in and if a guy become eligible and should go in before you they will let him in before you even if you've waited a long time. 

 

Carter was also held out so long because he was known for being a jerk.  If you ever listen to the people who vote on this talk about Marvin Harrison they still talk about he defined classy in an era where WRs were regarded for being ego maniacs. 

 

As for the off the field stuff I heard John Clayton asked about that about a week ago and he pretty much said you can't hold it against Marvin because he was never charged with anything let alone convicted of anything.  The way he put it is someone could accuse Peyton Manning of doing something bad tomorrow, the police are going to look into it because it's their job but if they can't bring charges against him over it are they going to hold it against Manning when his name comes up for the hall?  No.  Samething with Marvin, we can convict him in the court of public opinion but there is no official charge against Marvin and to the people who vote on this that last part matters. 

 

Now, with that all said you do raise a good point, there is no rule that says they only have to let one WR in.  There is no rule that says they have to let either WR in.  They could let both in.  They are going to pick the best four to seven people next year.  That might include Marvin and Brown. 

 

Here is who is up

 

Morten Anderson, Steve Atwater, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, John Lynch, Art Modell, Paul Tagliabue, Aeneas Williams, Michael Strahan, Will Shields, Andre Reed,  Charles Haley, Tony Dungy, Eddie DeBartolo, Jr, Don Coryell, Derrick Brooks, Jerome Bettis, Shaun Alexander, Zach Thomas, Tim Brown, and Marvin Harrison.

 

If I got a vote it would be for the following guys in no order. 

 

Marvin, Brooks, Haley, Strahan, Modell, Dungy, and Brown.  I came close to saying Coryell over Dungy but the more I thought about it Dungy won a Super Bowl and Coryell did not.  With that said I don't expect Dungy to get in next year. 

[Superman]

Its not that he doesn't have the numbers. Its that the numbers he does have, he got from the same guys that are still waiting (Reed) and a guy who just got in, Carter. None of who got in on first ballot. Now that Carter is in, I do think Marvin makes it, but not near the first ballot.

 

 

Here is Kravtiz new article, figuring its first ballot for him. 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130809/SPORTS15/308090038/Bob-Kravitz-Peyton-Manning-Marvin-Harrison-will-reluctantly-make-Hall-Fame-speech

 

He didn't get those numbers from Reed and Carter, he surpassed them. Meaning he actually has a better argument than they do.

 

I don't know if you've ever said, so I'll ask: If you had a vote next year, would you vote for Marvin?

[Superman]

T,O, & Moss no way ahead or more deserving than Marvin. They both dropped many balls going across the middle, incosistent at times & didn't put the team first like Marvin did. Marvin is well deserving ahead of those 2 guys & right up there with RICE

 

Moss is the most gifted receiver in NFL history, despite his attitude and behavior. It's one thing to resent him as a person, but there's no denying his greatness. And he has the numbers, more yards and way more touchdowns on fewer catches than Marvin. Dynamic and outstanding, and over a period of several years. Marvin was more consistent, and didn't have the issues Moss had. But if Moss had kept in line, he'd probably have obliterated any and every record that exists. It's a testament to his greatness than he probably wasted a third of his prime being a prima donna, and still has outstanding numbers.

 

But, like with Ward vs. Harrison, hopefully it doesn't matter at the end of the day, because Moss isn't eligible for some time now. Hopefully Marvin is in before Moss is even on the ballot.

[IndyTrav]

He didn't get those numbers from Reed and Carter, he surpassed them. Meaning he actually has a better argument than they do.

 

I don't know if you've ever said, so I'll ask: If you had a vote next year, would you vote for Marvin?

 

 

No I probably wouldnt vote for Marvin. 

 

I think for me it would probably go something along the lines of: Strahan, Tim Brown, Walter Jones, Eddie Debartolo, Derrick Brooks (i cant see him being a 1st ballot tho), Dungy, probably  Kevin Greene.....

 

Its really tough. I dont think Bettis should get in, but I bet he does. Will Shields WILL get in, but i dont know if it will be this yr, with Jones....I love Annees Williams, and he's got a good head start already being a finalist. But i was a HUGE Steve Atwater fan, I loved that guy, but I dont know he makes it...Taglibue will 100% make it.....Mortan Anderson is going to be very interesting....

 

Then after that, its going to be a foot race. 2015 may be the most interesting of all time. I am super curious as to the Kurt Warner angle. Pace, Mawea,Ty Law, Seau.....That class has an easy 4, just depends on when.  

[BOTT]

If it gets down to the point they are picking between Marvin and Tim Brown they are going to compare them as WRs because that's what they both were.  Yes they will factor in the fact that Tim Brown has more all purpose yards but they will also factor in the fact that Marvin Harrison also has a Super Bowl Ring, owns the NFL record for receptions in a season, Marvin is part of the tandem that holds the records for most TDs and receptions between a QB and WR, and played a team that went to the playoffs 10 of the 13 years he was on it.  I am one of the biggest people to argue that team records should not be used to decide who was the better player but I am not naïve enough to think that people who vote on things like the Hall of Fame over look things like that. 

 

Also, Marvin's numbers for the most part are better than Cris Carter's even if it's close, Marvin is sixth with receiving yards, and Carter is ninth, Marvin is third in receptions, Carter is fourth, Carter is fourth in TDs, Marvin is fifth, Marvin is 33rd all time on the all purpose yards list, Carter is fortieth.  Marvin won a Super Bowl, Carter never even made it to one.  They let Cris Carter in before Tim Brown.  So if Carter's numbers were good enough to get him in before Brown and Marvin's for the most part are better than Carter's it's hard to argue that Brown should go in before Marvin.  They have proven they don't reward for sitting around and waiting they pick the best player to go in and if a guy become eligible and should go in before you they will let him in before you even if you've waited a long time. 

 

Carter was also held out so long because he was known for being a jerk.  If you ever listen to the people who vote on this talk about Marvin Harrison they still talk about he defined classy in an era where WRs were regarded for being ego maniacs. 

 

As for the off the field stuff I heard John Clayton asked about that about a week ago and he pretty much said you can't hold it against Marvin because he was never charged with anything let alone convicted of anything.  The way he put it is someone could accuse Peyton Manning of doing something bad tomorrow, the police are going to look into it because it's their job but if they can't bring charges against him over it are they going to hold it against Manning when his name comes up for the hall?  No.  Samething with Marvin, we can convict him in the court of public opinion but there is no official charge against Marvin and to the people who vote on this that last part matters. 

 

Now, with that all said you do raise a good point, there is no rule that says they only have to let one WR in.  There is no rule that says they have to let either WR in.  They could let both in.  They are going to pick the best four to seven people next year.  That might include Marvin and Brown. 

 

Here is who is up

 

Morten Anderson, Steve Atwater, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, John Lynch, Art Modell, Paul Tagliabue, Aeneas Williams, Michael Strahan, Will Shields, Andre Reed,  Charles Haley, Tony Dungy, Eddie DeBartolo, Jr, Don Coryell, Derrick Brooks, Jerome Bettis, Shaun Alexander, Zach Thomas, Tim Brown, and Marvin Harrison.

 

If I got a vote it would be for the following guys in no order. 

 

Marvin, Brooks, Haley, Strahan, Modell, Dungy, and Brown.  I came close to saying Coryell over Dungy but the more I thought about it Dungy won a Super Bowl and Coryell did not.  With that said I don't expect Dungy to get in next year.

Walter Jones is eligible next year and I would think he is a lock.

[The Fish]

What's wrong with the people dwelling on his ( so called ) off field stuff. The E30 video admitted the 2 so called victims are convicted felons & they both changed their stories more than once during the investigation. We live in the USA, the best by far country in the world. Are you guys on the off field stuff bandwagon really expecting the Philly police to believe 2 thugs? Don't forget in this great country, people are innocent until proven guilty. The alleged happenings I think began in 2008, 5 years & no convictions. MARVIN HARRISON 1st ballot Hall of Famer, or the voters are nit wits !!!!!! 

 

The D.A said that a glock (I believe) that belonged to Marvin was unloaded at the scene of the first shooting. Multiple witnesses confirmed his presence at the scene.

 

I realize that on a Colts forum, this assessment of the case isn't popular. So be it. IMO the odds that Marvin has no connection to that mess is about 1%.