If it had come to pass...

[Gavin]

No,  what I said is.....    there are no corners that they don't cut....     in other words,  they cheat.    It's a very dirty program.   Very.

 

They win like crazy,  but that's a dirty program.   The football program (along with USC) is as close as the Pac-12 has to SEC-like behavior....   (win at all costs).... 

 

I like winning as much as the next fan...   but I don't like winning dirty...

I dont pay alot of attention to the behind the scenes goings on of programs, Just whatever is leaked out I catch and most of that is Colts related of course and not college, But what makes them a dirty program? what tactics do they use that one would or should consider them dirty? Like I said Im not familiar with things college related in terms of sports that is not leaked, So any info you could provide would help, I also read about Longs DUI......Which happened way back in 2009 as well as him dropping out of Florida State do to academic reasons and that he also appealed for an extra year of eligibility at Oregon which was denied, Not sure the reason he was denied 

[NewColtsFan]

I dont pay alot of attention to the behind the scenes goings on of programs, Just whatever is leaked out I catch and most of that is Colts related of course and not college, But what makes them a dirty program, what tactics do they use that one would or should consider them dirty, Like I said Im not familiar with things college related in terms of sports that is not leaked, So any info you could provide would help, I also read about Longs DUI......Which happened way back in 2009 as well as him dropping out of Florida State do to academic reasons and that he also appealed for an extra year of eligibility at Oregon which was denied, Not sure the reason he was denied 

 

Tell you what Gavin....   I've written a very long post....   but it feels like it's gotten off topic...   so, I'm going to send it to you via personal e-mail on the website.    That way no one else has to deal with a long rant of mine....

 

Hope that helps....

[crazycolt1]

Going back and bringing up "what if's" is a waist of time. The whole draft history is one long "what if'.  What's already done is the way it is. Move on. 

[wig]

Just out of curiosity....

What makes you so certain that what you read is correct and what I read is not?

Because I'm not simply hoping off whatever is written online.

[wig]

No, what I said is..... there are no corners that they don't cut.... in other words, they cheat. It's a very dirty program. Very.

They win like crazy, but that's a dirty program. The football program (along with USC) is as close as the Pac-12 has to SEC-like behavior.... (win at all costs)....

I like winning as much as the next fan... but I don't like winning dirty...

There was a gray area in the rules and they exploited it. Like it or not the actual rules they broke were not hanging done the paperwork properly. Sanctions are coming in a month... One schollie a year for three years (including last year) and probation. No bowl ban. That didn't sound like the punishment of a completely dirty program that was investigated for two years.

[coltsfanatic24]

No would be a reach.

[NewColtsFan]

There was a gray area in the rules and they exploited it. Like it or not the actual rules they broke were not hanging done the paperwork properly. Sanctions are coming in a month... One schollie a year for three years (including last year) and probation. No bowl ban. That didn't sound like the punishment of a completely dirty program that was investigated for two years.

 

Those may be the sanctions.   Those are what Oregon is recommending.   The NCAA has to agree with that.    I don't know anyone outside of Oregon who thinks those are close to appropriate,  especially in light of what was handed down to USC and Ohio State.

[wig]

Those may be the sanctions. Those are what Oregon is recommending. The NCAA has to agree with that. I don't know anyone outside of Oregon who thinks those are close to appropriate, especially in light of what was handed down to USC and Ohio State.

You sound like you have no clue what they are actually accused of. And those aren't just Oregon's suggestion. Not going back and forth on this. I'll be proven right on 2-4 weeks when they officially announce it. Like it or not, a bowl ban is off the table.

[NewColtsFan]

You sound like you have no clue what they are actually accused of. And those aren't just Oregon's suggestion. Not going back and forth on this. I'll be proven right on 2-4 weeks when they officially announce it. Like it or not, a bowl ban is off the table.

 

I absolutely have no clue when it comes to what the NCAA will and won't do.    Here's a tip:   No one else on the planet does either.    You may wind up being right.    I said so in my first sentence.   But it means nothing.   Oregon is a dirty program.

 

You sound like you know someone at Oregon.   Like you have a vested interest in the program.    Fine.    You made your choice.

[HtownColt]

"There were underlying major violations coupled with failure to monitor violations involving the head coach (2009 through 2011) and the athletics department (2008-2011)," the report said. "While the violations were not intentional in nature, coaches and administrators of a sports program at an NCAA member institution have an obligation to ensure that the activities being engaged in comply with NCAA legislation."

However, the summary disposition also noted no "lack of institutional control," typically one of the most severe charges the NCAA can bring after an investigation of rules violations.

"There is no finding of lack of institutional control and no findings of unethical conduct," the report said. "None of the underlying violations were intentional in nature."-ESPN

Doesn't sound like a dirty program to me

[wig]

"There were underlying major violations coupled with failure to monitor violations involving the head coach (2009 through 2011) and the athletics department (2008-2011)," the report said. "While the violations were not intentional in nature, coaches and administrators of a sports program at an NCAA member institution have an obligation to ensure that the activities being engaged in comply with NCAA legislation."

However, the summary disposition also noted no "lack of institutional control," typically one of the most severe charges the NCAA can bring after an investigation of rules violations.

"There is no finding of lack of institutional control and no findings of unethical conduct," the report said. "None of the underlying violations were intentional in nature."-ESPN

Doesn't sound like a dirty program to me

He's a Stanford fan, that's why I chose to ignore his biased hate. I'm not trying to say they did nothing wrong, but after two years of investigation it basically came down to them not having all their paperwork in order.

[atapcl]

Grigson said Wrener is the player we wanted. He also stated that Thornton was the best G at the Senior Bowl. I like the draft the way it played out.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Sorry,  but I don't believe it.

 

I believe Brandt was told that....   but I don't believe it's correct information.

 

Based on nothing more than my own instincts...    just do not believe it.

 

Yep. Just nonsense.

[NewColtsFan]

Yep. Just nonsense.

 

Having given it even more thought,  here's another reason why I don't believe it.

 

I'm not sure Long is a sure thing to be able to start from week one.    And I think that's what Grigson was looking for.

 

It's one of the reasons he addressed the issue with his 2nd pick (3rd round)    After Thornton, I don't think there were any obvious man-blocking guards left who could start in their rookie year.    Thornton was the last one.

 

Long maybe a talented kid, and maybe he's great someday,   but I think he's behind the curve on NFL blocking for right now.

[jshipp23]

I would have said,"Who?", than gotten really mad or something.

Till you found out he was Howie Long's progeny...

[jshipp23]

I would have been pretty upset and glad we took Werner, but if we did insist on reaching on guard I think Warford would have been much better, although Long has the bloodlines and potential...

[jshipp23]

Many valid points by NewColtsFan...I think your turning a corner and headed to the dark side...

[NewColtsFan]

He's a Stanford fan, that's why I chose to ignore his biased hate. I'm not trying to say they did nothing wrong, but after two years of investigation it basically came down to them not having all their paperwork in order.

 

Apologies for being so late....    this is the first I've seen of this post....

 

But if that's what you really think then there's a Grand Canyon sized difference between us.

 

You do realize Oregon has admitted to Major Violations?    What they don't agree on is what the appropriate penalty should be.

 

Having their paperwork in order is hardly a major violation.    If you really think than you've bought what they're selling hook, line and sinker....

 

Here is a report from Yahoo Sports....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/oregon-admits-committed-least-one-major-violation-second-154505061--ncaaf.html

 

Good grief....

[wig]

Apologies for being so late....    this is the first I've seen of this post....

 

But if that's what you really think then there's a Grand Canyon sized difference between us.

 

You do realize Oregon has admitted to Major Violations?    What they don't agree on is what the appropriate penalty should be.

 

Having their paperwork in order is hardly a major violation.    If you really think than you've bought what they're selling hook, line and sinker....

 

Here is a report from Yahoo Sports....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/oregon-admits-committed-least-one-major-violation-second-154505061--ncaaf.html

 

Good grief....

Yes, I know they admitted to 'major violations.' Do you know how many things they consider major violations? A lot. There's no reason to go back and forth, the announcement is coming in a week or two. I've given what I think the punishment will be, you do the same and that will settle who's on the wrong side of the canyon.

[NewColtsFan]

Yes, I know they admitted to 'major violations.' Do you know how many things they consider major violations? A lot. There's no reason to go back and forth, the announcement is coming in a week or two. I've given what I think the punishment will be, you do the same and that will settle who's on the wrong side of the canyon.

 

 

To be clear,  I've already stated that with the NCAA there's just no way to know what the punishment will be.   I think the odds are better than 50-50 that your version of what the NCAA will hand down in penalties will ultimately be what happens.

 

But that won't make it right.    Not for me.   And I strongly suspect not for most college football fans.  

 

Oregon fans will no doubt be thrilled,  and they should.   If they get off lightly,  then they will have gotten away with it....

 

Just a much different perspective....

[wig]

To be clear, I've already stated that with the NCAA there's just no way to know what the punishment will be. I think the odds are better than 50-50 that your version of what the NCAA will hand down in penalties will ultimately be what happens.

But that won't make it right. Not for me. And I strongly suspect not for most college football fans.

Oregon fans will no doubt be thrilled, and they should. If they get off lightly, then they will have gotten away with it....

Just a much different perspective....

So you, being a fan of a division opponent, thinks what they did I'd worse than it is and the punishment won't be just. Gotcha.

[NewColtsFan]

So you, being a fan of a division opponent, thinks what they did I'd worse than it is and the punishment won't be just. Gotcha.

 

Best I can tell, many football fans share that concern.....

 

With the NCAA getting a logical conclusion is often a very 'iffy' proposition....

[wig]

Best I can tell, many football fans share that concern.....

With the NCAA getting a logical conclusion is often a very 'iffy' proposition....

Football fans you talk to that likely don't know much about the investigation? Because the guys that have commented here that I've seen haven't had the same thoughts as you.

[NewColtsFan]

Football fans you talk to that likely don't know much about the investigation? Because the guys that have commented here that I've seen haven't had the same thoughts as you.

 

Right.

 

If they disagree with you then they clearly know nothing about the investigation.

 

If they agree with you,  then they know what they're talking about.

 

You couldn't possibly be more of a 'fan' if you tried....     and that's not a compliment....

[wig]

Right.

 

If they disagree with you then they clearly know nothing about the investigation.

 

If they agree with you,  then they know what they're talking about.

 

You couldn't possibly be more of a 'fan' if you tried....     and that's not a compliment....

I know I'm biased, much as you would be. But I also know more about the situation and best/worst case scenarios, what they were accused of, etc. than most everyone. Do I think they paid money to get an advantage? Yes. Do I think they exploited a grey area that there weren't rules against that they could have gotten away with if they paid better attention to a couple details? Yes. It's a complicated situation because it's the first of its kind, but they broke small rules and will be punished accordingly.

[NewColtsFan]

I know I'm biased, much as you would be. But I also know more about the situation and best/worst case scenarios, what they were accused of, etc. than most everyone. Do I think they paid money to get an advantage? Yes. Do I think they exploited a grey area that there weren't rules against that they could have gotten away with if they paid better attention to a couple details? Yes. It's a complicated situation because it's the first of its kind, but they broke small rules and will be punished accordingly.

 

Somehow we keep missing each other on this....

 

I don't think they didn't pay attention to a couple of details.   I think they knew full well that their actions were illegal and they tried to cover it up.    And yet,  you refer to it in your words as "broke small rules"

 

if that's the case, then why has Oregon admitted to the NCAA that is committed "Major Violations" ??

 

You appear to view this as some small administrative error that could've happened to any school.

 

Others see a pattern of cutting corners -- cheating -- in an attempt to gain an advantage.

 

I think the two viewpoints are not remotely close........

[wig]

Somehow we keep missing each other on this....

 

I don't think they didn't pay attention to a couple of details.   I think they knew full well that their actions were illegal and they tried to cover it up.    And yet,  you refer to it in your words as "broke small rules"

 

if that's the case, then why has Oregon admitted to the NCAA that is committed "Major Violations" ??

 

You appear to view this as some small administrative error that could've happened to any school.

 

Others see a pattern of cutting corners -- cheating -- in an attempt to gain an advantage.

 

I think the two viewpoints are not remotely close........

Again, there is a very long list of major violations. Not all are literally of a major nature and their punishment reflects that. Either way, I'm done going back and forth. I'll let you disagree with me and the NCAAs decision.

[NewColtsFan]

Again, there is a very long list of major violations. Not all are literally of a major nature and their punishment reflects that. Either way, I'm done going back and forth. I'll let you disagree with me and the NCAAs decision.

 

One last thought I'd like to share....   you're free to respond or not as you wish....

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, or more specifically, I'm not hard on Oregon because they're a team in the Pac-12 Conference.     I dislike all schools that cheat no matter what conference they're from.

 

So,  for example,  Auburn has, I think 8 major cheating scandals dating back to the 90's,  maybe even the 80's....   I think it was clear that Cam Newton's father,  the minister who needed $180K to rebuild his church, sold his son to Auburn.   Cam was committed to Mississippi State where Dan Mullen, who used to be his OC at Florida, had become the new HC there.

 

But Cam's father needed $180k, and what happened?    Suddenly, the Newton's church was magically rebuilt.   $180k just like that, and Cam was an Auburn Tiger.    And the NCAA let that go free....    Mind Boggling.

 

I wasn't happy about with Jim Tressel and the way he handled the scandal in his own back yard at Ohio State.   At least he paid the price.

 

My point is,  I dislike cheating everywhere,   not just at Oregon or USC or any other Pac-12 school.....

[Archer]

I was very vocal about wanting an OG in Round 1, but I'm definitely glad that Long was gone and we selected Werner.  Long seems like an entitled kid with great athleticism, who is watching things just fall into his lap.  His one year in major college football was not in a pro style offense, and he's done virtually nothing to prepare himself for success in the pros.  He scares me as a boom or bust prospect that I think will bust...

[wig]

Obviously this is a bit of propaganda as it's intended to show the bright side of things, but watch this video and tell me it seems like Long has an attitude problem, or he'd be a bad teammate, or he seems entitled. I've never heard a bad thing about the guy, and he was a known leader this last season.

http://vimeo.com/66751911