Luck is already elite! Put any of the so called elite QB's on the Colts behind that horrendous O-Line, and ask yourself could they go 11-5?

[jshipp23]

"Football IQ": Doesn't sound like a made up word at all.

Sounds like another word for instincts to me?? LOL

[jshipp23]

Elite is the best of the best, and is very exclusive. Luck has a looooooooooooooong way to go before he's considered elite. What Luck is right now is pretty good, maybe even very good. Not elite.

 

Group 1: Brady, Brees, P. Manning, Rodgers (in whatever order you want); they alone are "elite"

Group 2: Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Ryan, Flacco

Group 3: Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Kaepernick

Group 4: Schaub, Rivers, Cutler, Romo, Vick, Stafford

Group 5: Bradford, Newton, Freeman

Group 6+: Everyone else

 

Disclaimer: Some would flip Groups 3 and 4, but I'd rather have Group 3 moving forward than Group 4, and the difference in experience isn't enough to prevent the guys in Group 3 from having success. No matter.

 

Anyways, the point is that Luck isn't in Group 1, and isn't close at this point in time. He's not elite.

Isn't close??? He is just as good as anyone group 2 right now, they are on much better overall teams , but that is changing.

[Dustin]

Elite is the best of the best, and is very exclusive. Luck has a looooooooooooooong way to go before he's considered elite. What Luck is right now is pretty good, maybe even very good. Not elite.

 

Group 1: Brady, Brees, P. Manning, Rodgers (in whatever order you want); they alone are "elite"

Group 2: Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Ryan, Flacco

Group 3: Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Kaepernick

Group 4: Schaub, Rivers, Cutler, Romo, Vick, Stafford

Group 5: Bradford, Newton, Freeman

Group 6+: Everyone else

 

Disclaimer: Some would flip Groups 3 and 4, but I'd rather have Group 3 moving forward than Group 4, and the difference in experience isn't enough to prevent the guys in Group 3 from having success. No matter.

 

Anyways, the point is that Luck isn't in Group 1, and isn't close at this point in time. He's not elite.

 

Wow you're really underselling Cam Newton on that list. I'd put him in group 2 as well.

[Superman]

I don't want to respond or I may get a warning..SMH

 

[Superman]

Wow you're really underselling Cam Newton on that list. I'd put him in group 2 as well.

 

Group 3 QBs have had success that Newton hasn't had. I don't think Newton has done anything Bradford and Freeman haven't. My groupings change as players achieve more. I had Flacco in Group 4 before the playoffs.

 

Nothing scientific, and it's not static by any means. But I think, in a short period of time, anything from Group 3 and beyond can change easily. Groups 1 and 2 take some time to get into.

[dgambill]

There's homers....and then there's HOMERS. lol...how did this thread get to 3 pages without it being closed. This is just foolish non-sense. He could say not many qbs could have taken the beating or Luck certainly looks like he will be elite or is on the right track...or we have a great up and coming qb...but this....just homerism at its best.

[amfootball]

Yes, nothing like a Manning/Luck debate again. :-)

[Superman]

Isn't close??? He is just as good as anyone group 2 right now, they are on much better overall teams , but that is changing.

 

Group 2 isn't elite.

 

And I don't think Luck is as good as Group 2. He had one pretty good year for a rookie, the team had success, he showed poise and mettle, and I love that he's the Colts quarterback. I'd take him over Wilson, Griffin, Kaepernick. But he's not as good as the seasoned vets in Group 2, and it could be argued that he's not as good as some of the seasoned vets in Group 4.

 

He's certainly not on the level of Brady, Brees, Manning and Rodgers. And, to me, they are the only quarterbacks in the league, as of right now, that have a legitimate claim to "elite" status.

[HtownColt]

Cam newton is making the playoffs and taking that next step in his career which is closing games, they lost so many one score and 1 point games last season. He basically had the same kind of year he did as a rookie just with less rushing tds and 5 less ints. Everything else statistically were virtually the same. He is bound for a breakout season if they can start to finish games

[dgambill]

Yes, nothing like a Manning/Luck debate again. :-)

Just wait until Brady leaves and you guys have an up and comer....hopefully for us that guy isn't the first guy right after Brady like we got with Luck.

[Superman]

Just wait until Brady leaves and you guys have an up and comer....hopefully for us that guy isn't the first guy right after Brady like we got with Luck.

 

If Brady retires, it won't be a problem. If the team decides to move on, look out...

[amfootball]

Just wait until Brady leaves and you guys have an up and comer....hopefully for us that guy isn't the first guy right after Brady like we got with Luck.

Yeah. It will be an interesting time. For the Colts, Luck can actually achieve more than Manning at least in terms of rings but I don't see any QB coming to NE and outdoing Brady. I also don't think Belichick will stay around either. My guess is he will be like Walsh and never let anyone see him coach in the NFL again. I mean how do you top it? Nowhere to go but down.

[dgambill]

Yeah. It will be an interesting time. For the Colts, Luck can actually achieve more than Manning at least in terms of rings but I don't see any QB coming to NE and outdoing Brady. I also don't think Belichick will stay around either. My guess is he will be like Walsh and never let anyone see him coach in the NFL again. I mean how do you top it? Nowhere to go but down.

Possibly...but I also see the Bill Parcells in him and he may want to prove his genius somewhere else or with another qb....that it wasn't all Brady too.

[dgambill]

If Brady retires, it won't be a problem. If the team decides to move on, look out...

Could you imagine....just like crazy legs Joe he goes out with KC or somebody...Bill ships him out for like a dozen draft picks....I could see it. NE runs their team like a business....and one day...that business will have to have a new leader at the helm.

[Malakai432]

To be friendly as I always am...kind to others...and if they keep it up kick their _____(insert your own word) If all fails do what superheros do when they are down.

I just picked myself up a pint of Johnnie Walker black label! Unfortunately I don't have a superman costume though

[Qwiz]

Possibly...but I also see the Bill Parcells in him and he may want to prove his genius somewhere else or with another qb....that it wasn't all Brady too.

Yep. If he is really serious about even more consideration for best coach all time, he will look to win more SBs with another QB. I doubt that he retires when Brady does.

[Kenny]

I just picked myself up a pint of Johnnie Walker black label! Unfortunately I don't have a superman costume though

 

Ahh Scotch. The man's drink, for men. I have a passionate love for it that my generation just doesn't have. 

[Superman]

Ahh Scotch. The man's drink, for men. I have a passionate love for it that my generation just doesn't have. 

 

I prefer a single malt, The Glenlivet, for instance.

[jshipp23]

Group 2 isn't elite.

 

And I don't think Luck is as good as Group 2. He had one pretty good year for a rookie, the team had success, he showed poise and mettle, and I love that he's the Colts quarterback. I'd take him over Wilson, Griffin, Kaepernick. But he's not as good as the seasoned vets in Group 2, and it could be argued that he's not as good as some of the seasoned vets in Group 4.

 

He's certainly not on the level of Brady, Brees, Manning and Rodgers. And, to me, they are the only quarterbacks in the league, as of right now, that have a legitimate claim to "elite" status.

All those guys with the exception of Rodgers are in the twilight and are diminishing, I don't necessarily base elite on past success?? Elite to me is what can you do right now?? All-time great is a better word, Brady and Manning have a few years left before they hang it up..I would say they were more in the elite category 5 years ago....I know Manning was 2nd in MVP voting, but he also had a great line and 2 great receivers. How about this? Would you trade Andrew Luck for any other QB in the NFL right now?

[dgambill]

All those guys with the exception of Rodgers are in the twilight and are diminishing, I don't necessarily base elite on past success?? Elite to me is what can you do right now?? All-time great is a better word, Brady and Manning have a few years left before they hang it up..I would say they were more in the elite category 5 years ago....I know Manning was 2nd in MVP voting, but he also had a great line and 2 great receivers. How about this? Would you trade Andrew Luck for any other QB in the NFL right now?

If I had only one year to win a SB???? Hell yes! If I had 10 years...no. You really just contridicted yourself. If you can't claim past success to base elite on...why can you base future success (which there is no measure for) to determine elite. I base it off of last year and what they look like coming into this year. If that is the case....Luck isn't top 5. If I had one season (next) to win a SB to save my life....Luck wouldn't even be in the conversation.

[Susie Q]

Manning wouldn't have physically held up, yes, he gets the ball out quicker, but Luck took some vicious hits...Any of which could've forced Manning or Brady into early retirement..

Well in my opinion Manning and Brady wouldn't have taken those hits because they don't hang on to the ball as long as Luck did last year.     Slow down before you anoint Luck to Elite QB until he earns that title.

[jshipp23]

If I had only one year to win a SB???? heck yes! If I had 10 years...no. You really just contridicted yourself. If you can't claim past success to base elite on...why can you base future success (which there is no measure for) to determine elite. I base it off of last year and what they look like coming into this year. If that is the case....Luck isn't top 5. If I had one season (next) to win a SB to save my life....Luck wouldn't even be in the conversation.

How about 3 years??

[jshipp23]

How about 3 years??

I base it off the trusty eyeball test...

[John Dee]

Makers Mark ...  there is no substitute.  

 

unless you are broke..     then it's Lord Calvert time.... 

[dgambill]

How about 3 years??

I would take Brady. That defense gets a little bit better and they get over the top. Manning as well. Kapernick and Wilson are set up with a greater chance to win the SB in the next 3 years than Luck.....again....I just need to win one...i take Brady or Manning...their 3 year window is better than Luck's. Not saying Luck can't do it....just if you was to put odds....Brady would have the best. Followed by Peyton and then SF/SEA. In the next 3 years I would feel a whole lot safer then with a rebuilding Colts team that just isn't there yet. Years 3-7...Luck all day everyday.

[DILLIGAFER]

The only QB that could have had the success Luck did carrying the Colts despite having less than 2 seconds to throw the ball each time before getting smoked is Aaron Rodgers...Luck has the mobility, toughness, awareness, cerebral skills, and physical tools to be the G.O.A.T.....He is mobile like John Elway, tough like Brett Favre, and has the Mind of a Peyton Manning....He is the perfect QB. I guarantee you his accuracy will go way up and interceptions will go way down given just an average line, and if we build a great line he will absolutely humiliate and destroy defenses...Just wait.

 

psh.. Peyton did it for 12 seasons with the Colts. Next question.

[John Waylon]

I'm elite.

[dgambill]

I base it off the trusty eyeball test...

Did you respond to yourself lol???

 

Eyeball test to me too says Luck isn't there yet....but in a couple years...yes...he will be that elite qb. His accuracy has to improve. Turnovers will continue to have to come down and his supporting cast will still have to get better. He has a lot yet to learn....by year 3 or 4 for him...I see crazy possibilities like Peyton where he could make a run at mvp several years in a row. The new offense will be good for him..the additions will certainly help but right now...there are better qbs in the league. 

[The Old Crow]

How is Luck elite and Flacco not considered elite. You have a one and done in the playoffs versus five playoff appearances,three AFC Championship appearances, and one Super Bowl win.

[Superman]

All those guys with the exception of Rodgers are in the twilight and are diminishing, I don't necessarily base elite on past success?? Elite to me is what can you do right now?? All-time great is a better word, Brady and Manning have a few years left before they hang it up..I would say they were more in the elite category 5 years ago....I know Manning was 2nd in MVP voting, but he also had a great line and 2 great receivers. How about this? Would you trade Andrew Luck for any other QB in the NFL right now?

 

You have to earn elite, and you cannot reasonably do so in one year. So yes, it is partially based on past success, because past success is indicative of what you are capable of.

 

When Brady and Manning stop performing on a high level, then we can talk about them diminishing and not being worthy of elite status anymore. As it stands, Brady's team, on his shoulders, was in the AFCCG this year. Manning was second in MVP voting because he had, in many respects, the second best statistical season of his career (yards, touchdowns, completion percentage, rating), and his team won 13 games. They are -- right now -- elite, until proven otherwise.

 

By the way, Manning was his own category before last season, because I don't think anyone knew that he could perform at a high level. He proved that he could, and it's possible that he could be in better shape this season. We'll find out.

 

Your question about whether I'd trade any other quarterback for Luck -- right now -- is an entirely different topic. You have to take into consideration long term projections and a lot of other things before you can answer that, and then you're still going to get a multi-layered response. Same thing for every other good quarterback in the league. But the answer still doesn't prove that any player is or isn't elite.

 

But, just to humor you, the only player at any position that I simply would not trade for any other one player right now is Aaron Rodgers. I'd give up any two players on our roster for him; I'd give up Manning and anyone not named Von Miller and maybe Demaryius Thomas; I'd give up Brady and any other player on the Pats roster; I'd give up Brees and any other player on the Saints roster. I'd give up Kaepernick and Aldon Smith for him, or Kaepernick and my entire 2013 draft class for him, but the Packers would tell the Niners to lose their number. And that's because he's young enough that he will still be at the top of his game for several more years, he might actually get better(!), and he's proven himself to be an elite performer over the last three or four seasons. There's no one I would absolutely rather have for one game, for one season, or for the next five seasons.

[Dustin]

How is Luck elite and Flacco not considered elite. You have a one and done in the playoffs versus five playoff appearances,three AFC Championship appearances, and one Super Bowl win.

Because homerism.

[Dustin]

.

[Superman]

I'm elite.

 

Get ready to be paid $20m/year. It worked for Flacco.

[Superman]

How is Luck elite and Flacco not considered elite. You have a one and done in the playoffs versus five playoff appearances,three AFC Championship appearances, and one Super Bowl win.

 

Flacco isn't elite either. Postseason success doesn't equal "elite." Sorry.

 

I'll say this for Flacco, and I wouldn't have this time last year: He's more than good enough.

[The Old Crow]

Flacco isn't elite either. Postseason success doesn't equal "elite." Sorry.

 

I'll say this for Flacco, and I wouldn't have this time last year: He's more than good enough.

 

 

Fair enough. Your comment that post season success doesn't equal elite is true, and will not sit well with the Patriots/Brady apologist crowd. Flacco needs more consistency in the regular season, and in road games. Luck had a good start, but it's very premature to call him elite yet. Both quarterbacks are in the six to ten range, as far as NFL quarterbacks go. I give Flacco an edge just because of all the success in terms of wins and losses, and post season. I saw Luck in the playoff game in Baltimore, and I think he will be an excellent NFL quarterback. The Colts made some nice moves to get back into contention.

[John Dee]

Flacco needs to make A Boldin's house and car payments for him for the rest of his life.   Without that dude snagging all those horrible throws Baltimore doesn't have a ring, and Joe aint getting paid like an "elite" QB.

 

And the Ravens traded him for a 6th rounder cause they didn't want to pay him.

 

Oh well.....        well see how elite Joe is this season.    I agree with you, he is "just good enough" ...  

Get ready to be paid $20m/year. It worked for Flacco.

[jshipp23]

How is Luck elite and Flacco not considered elite. You have a one and done in the playoffs versus five playoff appearances,three AFC Championship appearances, and one Super Bowl win.

Flacco is elite, he is as accurate as it gets...

[Superman]

Fair enough. Your comment that post season success doesn't equal elite is true, and will not sit well with the Patriots/Brady apologist crowd. Flacco needs more consistency in the regular season, and in road games. Luck had a good start, but it's very premature to call him elite yet. Both quarterbacks are in the six to ten range, as far as NFL quarterbacks go. I give Flacco an edge just because of all the success in terms of wins and losses, and post season. I saw Luck in the playoff game in Baltimore, and I think he will be an excellent NFL quarterback. The Colts made some nice moves to get back into contention.

 

I've been at odds with the Brady crowd for many years, and I don't expect that to change now. But Brady has had a lot more postseason success throughout his career than Flacco, and he has long term production to go with it.

 

For me, Flacco is #8 on the list. Luck's spot depends on how you're ranking him, but I think I'd put him at #9, ahead of the other young guys, and ahead of the experienced vets in my Group 4.

[The Old Crow]

I know you don't like Joe, but the Ravens already had a 17 million dollar offer on the table before the season began, and it was turned down. So Joe got 20 million, but what are you going to do if you are the Raven's and you just won a Super Bowl with this quarterback ? Also, future salaries like Romo and Rodgers will easily surpass Flaccos number.

 

That being said, I will miss Boldin and Pollard. Those two moves I have my doubts, as do many Raven's fans. We'll see how both Luck and Flacco do this season in their march to elitism.

[Carlos Danger]

We have a great young QB, but lets be honest... Manning gets sacked 15 times less than Luck did if he were playing behind that line... Sure, Luck used his legs and his size to avoid some sacks, but PM would have gotten rid of the ball so much faster, even if he were throwing it away... Impossible to tell how many wins any other QB would have gotten, but I remember Manning playing behind some horrible lines during his tenure here and throwing to guys like Blair White as well and making 10-11 wins look easier than they did for us in 2012...

 

I am very excited about the future of the franchise, but I have a difficult time describing any QB as "elite" after 1 season... I do, however, have confidence that Luck is going to be elite in time.. maybe one of the best ever if we can keep a team around him...