Does John Elway deserve part of the blame for Dumervil's departure?

[Superman]

I would be very worried about this PR skills as if his public communication is any indication of the way he deals one-on-one with players than he is going to rub players the wrong way a lot. Remember Doom said he wanted to go somewhere to feel wanted. This was not just because of the pay cut as he did not sign for that much more with the Ravens but had to do with the way Elway dealt with him. Asking a player to take that big of a pay cut needs to be positioned well and I think Elway failed big time and as a GM the communication part is critical to his job. These players are basically over sensitive babies with huge egos - how something is said is as important as what it is said.

 

Dumervil agreed to the pay cut. To say Elway failed because the agent didn't send the paperwork over on time is unfair.

 

Either way, Elway doesn't run my team, so I'm not concerned with his PR skills. And I don't think you have any particular insight into how the players on the team feel just because Dumervil didn't like being asked to take a pay cut. No one would like being asked to take a pay cut, but business is business.

 

Like I said to begin with, end of the day, this is Elway's decision, right or wrong. Just like it was Irsay's decision to move on from Manning. Some can support the decision, others can oppose it, but at the end of the day, the results will determine whether they were right or not.

[Balzer40]

Sometimes I think the NFL general section should be renamed to the Bronco's section. 

[The Old Crow]

Once again, Ozzie Newsome showed why he is the top GM in the game. He pulled a heist getting Dumervil, and has already strengthened a declining defensive line with Canty and Spears. With Ngata, and Art Jones, the D line is already superior to the 2012 Raven's team, and one of the best in the league. With 12 draft picks, and some more deft free agent finds, I'm certain that Ozzie will fill the inside linebacker positions, and the safeties. Despite what the national media types say, the Ravens will again be in strong contention in 2013. As for Elway, he is still paying for stiffing the Colts in 1983, and the Ravens enacted revenge on him, and took advantage of the faxing error to boot !

[amfootball]

Dumervil agreed to the pay cut. To say Elway failed because the agent didn't send the paperwork over on time is unfair.

 

Either way, Elway doesn't run my team, so I'm not concerned with his PR skills. And I don't think you have any particular insight into how the players on the team feel just because Dumervil didn't like being asked to take a pay cut. No one would like being asked to take a pay cut, but business is business.

 

Like I said to begin with, end of the day, this is Elway's decision, right or wrong. Just like it was Irsay's decision to move on from Manning. Some can support the decision, others can oppose it, but at the end of the day, the results will determine whether they were right or not.

I never said Elway failed because of paperwork but perhaps it got to the eleventh hour because he really made Doom upset with the way he handled the negogiations. If he said to Doom "your contract is out of whack" like he said to the media then no wonder Doom left. That is my point. You have to be better than that. And no, I don't know for sure but like I said if he handles his one on one discussions like he does publicly then he is culpable. But like you said, we will see how it plays out. The questions was whether Elway was to blame for what did happen with Doom. I think his comm may have been lacking. THat is my only point which may have cost him the player.

 

Elway is not my GM either. For I all I care, Denver can go 0-16. :-)

[BOTT]

Once again, Ozzie Newsome showed why he is the top GM in the game. He pulled a heist getting Dumervil, and has already strengthened a declining defensive line with Canty and Spears. With Ngata, and Art Jones, the D line is already superior to the 2012 Raven's team, and one of the best in the league. With 12 draft picks, and some more deft free agent finds, I'm certain that Ozzie will fill the inside linebacker positions, and the safeties. Despite what the national media types say, the Ravens will again be in strong contention in 2013. As for Elway, he is still paying for stiffing the Colts in 1983, and the Ravens enacted revenge on him, and took advantage of the faxing error to boot !

I agree, the Ravens aren't nearly as bad off as people think. The only move that worries me is the Boldin trade.

But, as far as Elway paying for stiffing Bob Irsay: 5 SB appearances, 2 SB wins, SB mvp, NFL MVP, first ballot HOF inductee, conductor of the greatest drive in NFL history, multi millionaire, vice prez of the Broncos.....yep, he really screwed the pooch with that decision.

[chad72]

I agree, the Ravens aren't nearly as bad off as people think. The only move that worries me is the Boldin trade.

 

 

A defensive standard, we have come to expect from the Ravens, their coaching staff will get it right somehow to a top 10 standard. The offensive standard, however, was hit and miss, and took off in such a timely fashion for the playoffs. The biggest doubt from me is if they can maintain a high level of offensive prowess with Jacoby Jones, Torrey Smith and Dennis Pitta along with Ray Rice. I just have my doubts.

 

It could end up being the Baltimore we knew of, outstanding D but an O that falls short in the playoffs. It had been the case for the longest time since 2000 till those few games they put together on O with perfect timing that was actually the thing that put them over the hump, IMO. I dont think they will be a terrible team, they just wont have the O to keep up with the playoff teams and that is where the deficiency will be magnified, at least this year, IMO.

[The Old Crow]

I agree, the Ravens aren't nearly as bad off as people think. The only move that worries me is the Boldin trade.

But, as far as Elway paying for stiffing Bob Irsay: 5 SB appearances, 2 SB wins, SB mvp, NFL MVP, first ballot HOF inductee, conductor of the greatest drive in NFL history, multi millionaire, vice prez of the Broncos.....yep, he really screwed the pooch with that decision.

 

He stiffed Indy more than Baltimore. We were out of the league for 12 years when this guy was playing. I enjoyed him suffering through the three Super Bowl losses, and he only got two later when the Broncos illegally went over the salary cap. He is still unfondly remembered in Baltimore, as was the other actor in that sad play, Bob Irsay. I do like Boldin, but at 6 million, he was too pricey. Great player for us, though.

[The Old Crow]

A defensive standard, we have come to expect from the Ravens, their coaching staff will get it right somehow to a top 10 standard. The offensive standard, however, was hit and miss, and took off in such a timely fashion for the playoffs. The biggest doubt from me is if they can maintain a high level of offensive prowess with Jacoby Jones, Torrey Smith and Dennis Pitta along with Ray Rice. I just have my doubts.

 

It could end up being the Baltimore we knew of, outstanding D but an O that falls short in the playoffs. It had been the case for the longest time since 2000 till those few games they put together on O with perfect timing that was actually the thing that put them over the hump, IMO. I dont think they will be a terrible team, they just wont have the O to keep up with the playoff teams and that is where the deficiency will be magnified, at least this year, IMO.

 

They have a great running game with Pierce and Rice. Still have good receivers and tight end, and only need another offensive tackle. Hopefully, Joe will continue to take his game to the next level. The pickups and restructuring of the defense, is progressing nicely. People forget, changes needed to be made when they slipped to the 17th ranked defense, and teams were running right up the guy on them. They had to get younger.

[BOTT]

He stiffed Indy more than Baltimore. We were out of the league for 12 years when this guy was playing. I enjoyed him suffering through the three Super Bowl losses, and he only got two later when the Broncos illegally went over the salary cap. He is still unfondly remembered in Baltimore, as was the other actor in that sad play, Bob Irsay. I do like Boldin, but at 6 million, he was too pricey. Great player for us, though.

Pricey, but it would have been acceptable for one more year imo

[The Old Crow]

They did try to get him down to 4 million. I honestly would have liked to have kept Boldin and Pollard out of all the guys that left. Both these guys will benefit the teams they are going to. Maybe Ozzie used that money to get Dumervil. It's harder getting a pass rusher, than a possession receiver, or a safety. That being said, both were significant losses in terms of play, and leadership.

[Superman]

I never said Elway failed because of paperwork but perhaps it got to the eleventh hour because he really made Doom upset with the way he handled the negogiations. If he said to Doom "your contract is out of whack" like he said to the media then no wonder Doom left. That is my point. You have to be better than that. And no, I don't know for sure but like I said if he handles his one on one discussions like he does publicly then he is culpable. But like you said, we will see how it plays out. The questions was whether Elway was to blame for what did happen with Doom. I think his comm may have been lacking. THat is my only point which may have cost him the player.

 

Elway is not my GM either. For I all I care, Denver can go 0-16. :-)

 

It's all a moot point. Dumervil agreed to the pay cut. Even if he hated the way Elway handled the situation, he agreed to take a pay cut and stay with the team. The reason he's not a Bronco anymore is because his agent messed up, not because he doesn't like Elway's approach.

 

I also reiterate that I'm not worried about Elway's people skills. I find that some of the best salespeople and most effective communicators are often abrasive in their one one one interactions. So I don't like to look at situations from afar and determine that the way one person spoke to another person had any particular impact on the way an interaction turned out. I'll let Dumervil fill in the gaps, if and when he ever wants to, rather than assuming he had a problem with Elway's people skills.

[Superman]

They did try to get him down to 4 million. I honestly would have liked to have kept Boldin and Pollard out of all the guys that left. Both these guys will benefit the teams they are going to. Maybe Ozzie used that money to get Dumervil. It's harder getting a pass rusher, than a possession receiver, or a safety. That being said, both were significant losses in terms of play, and leadership.

 

Come on man, you gotta stop with this all italics.

[The Old Crow]

It's all a moot point. Dumervil agreed to the pay cut. Even if he hated the way Elway handled the situation, he agreed to take a pay cut and stay with the team. The reason he's not a Bronco anymore is because his agent messed up, not because he doesn't like Elway's approach.

 

I also reiterate that I'm not worried about Elway's people skills. I find that some of the best salespeople and most effective communicators are often abrasive in their one one one interactions. So I don't like to look at situations from afar and determine that the way one person spoke to another person had any particular impact on the way an interaction turned out. I'll let Dumervil fill in the gaps, if and when he ever wants to, rather than assuming he had a problem with Elway's people skills.

  I've seen all of Elway's people skills back in 1983. He handled his drafting situation horribly, the Tebow situation horribly, and now the Dumervil affair. He is following the daniel Snyder/Jerry Jones method of putting together a football team, which will eventually blow up in the Bronco's face.

[The Old Crow]

Come on man, you gotta stop with this all italics.

 

Hey, I'm not Italian !  LOL

[chad72]

  I've seen all of Elway's people skills back in 1983. He handled his drafting situation horribly, the Tebow situation horribly, and now the Dumervil affair. He is following the daniel Snyder/Jerry Jones method of putting together a football team, which will eventually blow up in the Bronco's face.

 

He is not overpaying though for his free agents though like Snyder and Jerry Jones did.

 

In fact, Peyton is a handcuff he is willing to live with at this point, thus signing players to short term deals that dont break the bank. Once Peyton leaves, you will see him change a few philosophies.

[Superman]

  I've seen all of Elway's people skills back in 1983. He handled his drafting situation horribly, the Tebow situation horribly, and now the Dumervil affair. He is following the daniel Snyder/Jerry Jones method of putting together a football team, which will eventually blow up in the Bronco's face.

 

You're predisposed against Elway, right or wrong. I think you'd admit that.

 

I don't think he did anything wrong with the Tebow situation, and I think the Dumervil decision was business. Like the moves or not, but I don't think his handling of them was a problem. JMO

 

I definitely don't see a similarity between him and Snyder or Jones. He landed a quarterback that he can make a short term push with, and is trying to put together the best roster he can for right now. In a few years, he'll have to change course. That's when we'll really see if he knows how to run a team.

[amfootball]

It's all a moot point. Dumervil agreed to the pay cut. Even if he hated the way Elway handled the situation, he agreed to take a pay cut and stay with the team. The reason he's not a Bronco anymore is because his agent messed up, not because he doesn't like Elway's approach.

 

I also reiterate that I'm not worried about Elway's people skills. I find that some of the best salespeople and most effective communicators are often abrasive in their one one one interactions. So I don't like to look at situations from afar and determine that the way one person spoke to another person had any particular impact on the way an interaction turned out. I'll let Dumervil fill in the gaps, if and when he ever wants to, rather than assuming he had a problem with Elway's people skills.

Doom never agreed to the paycut as he never signed the contract. If it was all really just his agent's fault then he would have resigned with the Broncs. That has been my whole point. He came out and said he wanted to feel wanted by a team. This would naturally lead one to believe that Elway messed up the negogiations. Like I said, when you ask a guy to take a pay cut of that amount it has to be handled correctly. You can't tell a guy his contract is out of whack. It's not like Elway does not a history of poor communication. I mean the Tebow thing was handled extremely poorly as well. We will most likely never know the full story on this but it is no unreasonable to suggest the Elway may have botched the negogiations which led to the late fax and Doom eventually opting to join the Ravens. I am not completely absolving Doom either just saying that Elway may partly to be blamed in this too. But the lion's share belongs to McDaniels.

[Superman]

Doom never agreed to the paycut as he never signed the contract. If it was all really just his agent's fault then he would have resigned with the Broncs. That has been my whole point. He came out and said he wanted to feel wanted by a team. This would naturally lead one to believe that Elway messed up the negogiations. Like I said, when you ask a guy to take a pay cut of that amount it has to be handled correctly. You can't tell a guy his contract is out of whack. It's not like Elway does not a history of poor communication. I mean the Tebow thing was handled extremely poorly as well. We will most likely never know the full story on this but it is no unreasonable to suggest the Elway may have botched the negogiations which led to the late fax and Doom eventually opting to join the Ravens. I am not completely absolving Doom either just saying that Elway may partly to be blamed in this too. But the lion's share belongs to McDaniels.

 

Oh my goodness. I'm done.

[bayone]

POST DOOM CBS Says Denver # 1 power poll & love Elways move

 

 

CBS, Pete Prisco

 

The Ravens will be in the playoff mix again -- thanks to Joe Flacco -- but they will not head into the 2013 season as the top team here.

 

That's the Denver Broncos.

 

The Broncos were one bad play by safetyRahim Moore away from beating the Ravens and getting to the AFC Championship Game, which would have been at home. I still think if they win that game, they win it all.

 

Since then, the Broncos have had a terrific offseason. John Elway has made a lot of right moves, the fax fiasco that cost them Elvis Dumervil not one of them.

 

The offensive line needed an upgrade inside, so he signed guard Louis Vasquez from the Chargers. The secondary needed help at corner, so he brought in corner Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie on a show-me deal. They needed help inside on defense, so he signed former Jaguars defensive tackle Terrence Knighton, who is talented but somehow got in the doghouse last season.

 

And then he capped it off by signing Wes Welker to a deal to help the inside passing game, an area Peyton Manning loves to exploit. They will add a veteran pass rusher soon to take over for Dumervil.

 

Denver was the top seed in the AFC last year, and now they are better. The Broncos are currently the best team in the league.

 

http://www.cbssports...roncos-time-now

 

 

 

Oh my goodness. I'm done.

[Jules]

You can throw my hat in the ring for those who don't like Elway much either.

[bayone]

You can throw my hat in the ring for those who don't like Elway much either.

 

I thought I was going to drown when taking a bath it came over the radio  her wouldn't play for colts and i slipped under water and swallowed alot

 

But that many years ago i let it go eventually

[Superman]

POST DOOM CBS Says Denver # 1 power poll & love Elways move

 

 

CBS, Pete Prisco

 

The Ravens will be in the playoff mix again -- thanks to Joe Flacco -- but they will not head into the 2013 season as the top team here.

 

That's the Denver Broncos.

 

The Broncos were one bad play by safetyRahim Moore away from beating the Ravens and getting to the AFC Championship Game, which would have been at home. I still think if they win that game, they win it all.

 

Since then, the Broncos have had a terrific offseason. John Elway has made a lot of right moves, the fax fiasco that cost them Elvis Dumervil not one of them.

 

The offensive line needed an upgrade inside, so he signed guard Louis Vasquez from the Chargers. The secondary needed help at corner, so he brought in corner Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie on a show-me deal. They needed help inside on defense, so he signed former Jaguars defensive tackle Terrence Knighton, who is talented but somehow got in the doghouse last season.

 

And then he capped it off by signing Wes Welker to a deal to help the inside passing game, an area Peyton Manning loves to exploit. They will add a veteran pass rusher soon to take over for Dumervil.

 

Denver was the top seed in the AFC last year, and now they are better. The Broncos are currently the best team in the league.

 

http://www.cbssports...roncos-time-now

 

For what it's worth -- admittedly, not much -- Prisco picked the Colts to go 1-15 last season. His prognostications don't mean much to me.

[bayone]

For what it's worth -- admittedly, not much -- Prisco picked the Colts to go 1-15 last season. His prognostications don't mean much to me.

 

didnt lknow that, that was really stupid , that would of m,ade them worse than year before that

[Superman]

didnt lknow that, that was really stupid , that would of m,ade them worse than year before that

 

To his credit, he came back and ate his crow publicly. But we all had a good time railing on his ignorance before the season started.

[The Old Crow]

You're predisposed against Elway, right or wrong. I think you'd admit that.

 

I don't think he did anything wrong with the Tebow situation, and I think the Dumervil decision was business. Like the moves or not, but I don't think his handling of them was a problem. JMO

 

I definitely don't see a similarity between him and Snyder or Jones. He landed a quarterback that he can make a short term push with, and is trying to put together the best roster he can for right now. In a few years, he'll have to change course. That's when we'll really see if he knows how to run a team.

 

 

You are right, I am certainly no fan of Elway. Look who he has signed , Elway, Welker, Cromartie, and others. It looks good on paper, but sooner or later the cap piper must be paid. Like Jones and Synder, or more like George Allen, he is creating the over the hill gang in Denver. The Bronco's will be good this year, but the window is closing rapidly.

[The Old Crow]

I thought I was going to drown when taking a bath it came over the radio  her wouldn't play for colts and i slipped under water and swallowed alot

 

But that many years ago i let it go eventually

 

 

It was one of the most selfish and cowardly acts in sports history, only to be equaled by Eli ! As some people will never forget , " The Drive," I will never forget , The Smirk," when this punk got his way.

[Superman]

You are right, I am certainly no fan of Elway. Look who he has signed , Elway, Welker, Cromartie, and others. It looks good on paper, but sooner or later the cap piper must be paid. Like Jones and Synder, or more like George Allen, he is creating the over the hill gang in Denver. The Bronco's will be good this year, but the window is closing rapidly.

 

The window was dramatically short the minute they signed Manning. They're building for a short term run with an aging quarterback.

 

But people talk about this cap piper, and it's more of a cliche than anything else. Welker and DRC signed two year deals with minimal cap implications. Vasquez was a long term signing that ought to work out unless he suddenly develops osteoporosis. Terrance Knighton is a great addition, and for only two years with minimal money. The Broncos are just fine on the cap, right now and moving forward.

 

The question is whether they can win a Super Bowl. And no one really knows the answer to that, right? I hope so, being a Manning fan. They really shot themselves in the foot last season, but there's no question they're a talented team with a great shot for at least the next couple years. I think Elway has done fine, but given his high profile, and the high profile nature of a lot of his moves, he's going to be judged on whether they win a Super Bowl or not.

[The Old Crow]

I like Manning, but I'm no fan of Elway. I probably shouldn't be a fan of Manning, as he's had the Raven's number, but the guy has class, and does things the right way. I can't say the same for Elway's character, but I admit he has done a decent job as GM. Whether his plan is a long term success plan, I doubt it. I think he's down to a year or two window with this crew, so he'd better get it next year. He is on the clock.

[amfootball]

I like Manning, but I'm no fan of Elway. I probably shouldn't be a fan of Manning, as he's had the Raven's number, but the guy has class, and does things the right way. I can't say the same for Elway's character, but I admit he has done a decent job as GM. Whether his plan is a long term success plan, I doubt it. I think he's down to a year or two window with this crew, so he'd better get it next year. He is on the clock.

I think their best shot was last year. They had a cake schedule, the number one seed and they blew it. Manning is now 37 and his arm is still not 100 percent and the cold weather still bothers him. Will be tough for them to repeat what they did last year. Even their division will be tougher with the moves the Chiefs made and the Chargers getting rid of Norv.

[The Old Crow]

You may be right. Denver was probably the best team in the league last year, but obviously not the hottest. Like the Ravens with Evans and Cundiff, Rhaim Moore was the goat for the Broncos. It's like that almost every year, when these games come down to a play or two. Manning is also another year older, and is already starting to wear down at the end of the season. That is why it is so hard to win Super Bowls.

[Superman]

You may be right. Denver was probably the best team in the league last year, but obviously not the hottest. Like the Ravens with Evans and Cundiff, Rhaim Moore was the goat for the Broncos. It's like that almost every year, when these games come down to a play or two. Manning is also another year older, and is already starting to wear down at the end of the season. That is why it is so hard to win Super Bowls.

 

 

;)

 

Regarding your post, the Colts probably had their best crack at a Super Bowl in 2005, probably the best and most complete team of the Manning era. And we got bounced in the first round in a game where the whole team was imperfect, Manning made mistakes, and we had a shot to win at the end.

 

Then we won the whole enchilada the next year with a flawed and inferior team.

 

So I agree that the Broncos had a terrific shot last season, but I'm not worried that they can't contend this season again. I'm not worried about Manning's arm, or the state of their roster or cap. I think they have a legitimate shot moving forward.

[BOTT]

I think their best shot was last year. They had a cake schedule, the number one seed and they blew it. Manning is now 37 and his arm is still not 100 percent and the cold weather still bothers him. Will be tough for them to repeat what they did last year. Even their division will be tougher with the moves the Chiefs made and the Chargers getting rid of Norv.

Still bothers him? He was having a problem with hand numbness and it just happened to be the coldest playoff game in Denver history.

[amfootball]

Still bothers him? He was having a problem with hand numbness and it just happened to be the coldest playoff game in Denver history.

I never heard anything about hand numbness? I remember the announcers before the start of the game that he was soaking his throwing glove in buckets of ice in practice to prepare for the elelments. I would assume if he had any hand numbness, he would not have done that.

[BOTT]

I never heard anything about hand numbness? I remember the announcers before the start of the game that he was soaking his throwing glove in buckets of ice in practice to prepare for the elelments. I would assume if he had any hand numbness, he would not have done that.

He was dealing with it most of the year. It hindered his gripping the ball and people mistook it for poor arm strength. Explains the many wobblers throughout the season.

[amfootball]

He was dealing with it most of the year. It hindered his gripping the ball and people mistook it for poor arm strength. Explains the many wobblers throughout the season.

Ok, I had heard that. But he was dealing witht it all season and seemed to have improve as the season went on. It is stunning that he played as well as he did all season given his arm/hand. The guys is work horse obviously and knows how to get every ounce out of his body. I think it was Jaws that said Manning spent a lot of time strengthening his lower body so he could throw from his legs to get more zip on the ball.

[BOTT]

Ok, I had heard that. But he was dealing witht it all season and seemed to have improve as the season went on. It is stunning that he played as well as he did all season given his arm/hand. The guys is work horse obviously and knows how to get every ounce out of his body. I think it was Jaws that said Manning spent a lot of time strengthening his lower body so he could throw from his legs to get more zip on the ball.

He dealt with it all season, but it was exacerbated by the cold...hence the glove he started wearing late in the season.

[The Old Crow]

 

;)

 

Regarding your post, the Colts probably had their best crack at a Super Bowl in 2005, probably the best and most complete team of the Manning era. And we got bounced in the first round in a game where the whole team was imperfect, Manning made mistakes, and we had a shot to win at the end.

 

Then we won the whole enchilada the next year with a flawed and inferior team.

 

So I agree that the Broncos had a terrific shot last season, but I'm not worried that they can't contend this season again. I'm not worried about Manning's arm, or the state of their roster or cap. I think they have a legitimate shot moving forward.

 

 

They will contend, but every year is different. This isn't the Peyton Manning of 2005, but with him, you are always in the hunt for a Super Bowl birth. One year it will be over, like it was for Johnny Unitas in 1973 !