Front Office: Please Hire A Coach

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

ruksak where are you at?

Ok. He's not here so I guess I'll steal his quote:

This thread is embarrassing.

Jim Caldwell is embarrassing

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

Really did Dungy ride Manning's coat tails when he was taking the Bucs from one of the biggest jokes in sports to a Super Bowl contending team? Also if it was just Manning's coat tails how on earth did Mora get fired? He had Manning too.

How did Dungy's career end in Tampa? Oh yeah, he was fired lol

[doogansquest]

Tony Dungy didn't "road" anyone's coattails. He built his own championship team in Tampa that was inherited by Gruden. Yet some people want Gruden here even though he's done nothing relevant before or since...

Caldwell inherited from Dungy, and his record speaks for itself thus far. This thread is completely out of line and needs to die in a horrible fire.

[Coltssouth]

Jim Caldwell is embarrassing

Why? Because he made two questionable calls that the fans didn't agree with or because he doesn't yell enough?

I think that's a little bit harsh to judge a person because of that.

[GoColts8818]

How did Dungy's career end in Tampa? Oh yeah, he was fired lol

and a lot of people questioned that move and even more questioned it after Gruden cashed in with his team and then ran them into ground while Dungy was winning here. Dungy won with a team in Tamapa Bay that no one thought anyone could win with. If you don't respect that fine but most fans do. Also getting fired doesn't make you a bad coach just about every coach gets fired at sompe point even Bill Belichick got fired. You still haven't answered the point that if it was just Manning's coat tails why didn't Mora work here?

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

and a lot of people questioned that move and even more questioned it after Gruden cashed in with his team and then ran them into ground while Dungy was winning here. You still haven't answered the point that if it was just Manning's coat tails why didn't Mora work here?

Mora was not here in Manning's prime. Questioned answered.

[GoColts8818]

Mora was not here in Manning's prime. Questioned answered.

but if it was Manning's coat tails and that's all you needed that shouldn't have been an issue...face it your arguement doesn't hold up.

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

and a lot of people questioned that move and even more questioned it after Gruden cashed in with his team and then ran them into ground while Dungy was winning here. Dungy won with a team in Tamapa Bay that no one thought anyone could win with. If you don't respect that fine but most fans do. Also getting fired doesn't make you a bad coach just about every coach gets fired at sompe point even Bill Belichick got fired. You still haven't answered the point that if it was just Manning's coat tails why didn't Mora work here?

And also, do you consider winning a Super Bowl the following year running a team into the ground?

[Balzer40]

I'll be the 1st to admit that I would like the Colts to go in a different direction with the coaching staff, but to suggest we fire him 2 weeks before the start of the season is just ludicrous.

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

but if it was Manning's coat tails and that's all you needed that shouldn't have been an issue...face it your arguement doesn't hold up.

I don't get what you mean. Mora had Manning in the early stages in his career. Dungy had him in his prime. That should be all the argument I need. Do you really think Caldwell could be successful as a head coach on any other team?

[GoColts8818]

And also, do you consider winning a Super Bowl the following year running a team into the ground?

No I conisder what he did to the team after the Super Bowl running it into the ground which is why I said after he cashed in with Dungy's team.

[BIGugly]

I would think 3-5 would get us looking. Wonder what Bill Cowher is doin????

[FireJimCaldwell]

How many superbowls did he take his team to in what 12 yrs.?

No thanks

How many times did he coach a Peyton Manning led team? That's the only feather in Caldwell's hat. He has the best quarterback in the game.

It would be like (insert poster name here) driving a Ferrari with Mario Andretti in a Yugo. Just because Poster x beats him from Indy to Chicago, that doesn't mean he's a better driver. He's only driving the much faster car.

Fisher did a great job with what he had to work with. Mcnair, rest his soul isn't anywhere near the quarterback Manning is, and it is still a crime they shared an MVP, when the Titans were 2-0 with Volek, and lost to the Colts head to head twice. It's a tribute to Fisher's job for being as successful as he was going against Manning twice in the same year.

Kubiak, Del Rio aren't Lombardi and Noll, but they coach circles around Caldwell.

[GoColts8818]

How many times did he coach a Peyton Manning led team? That's the only feather in Caldwell's hat. He has the best quarterback in the game.

It would be like (insert poster name here) driving a Ferrari with Mario Andretti in a Yugo. Just because Poster x beats him from Indy to Chicago, that doesn't mean he's a better driver. He's only driving the much faster car.

Fisher did a great job with what he had to work with. Mcnair, rest his soul isn't anywhere near the quarterback Manning is, and it is still a crime they shared an MVP, when the Titans were 2-0 with Volek, and lost to the Colts head to head twice. It's a tribute to Fisher's job for being as successful as he was going against Manning twice in the same year.

Kubiak, Del Rio aren't Lombardi and Noll, but they coach circles around Caldwell.

and yet Caldwell has taken us to as many Super Bowls as all the other coaches that have coached Manning combined...

[grmasterb]

Should a team as prestigious as the Colts get a guy with no head coaching experience?

Mike Tomlin had no head coaching experience when he was hired by the Steelers. And if memory serves, neither did Bill Cowher.

[ruksak]

ruksak where are you at?

Ok. He's not here so I guess I'll steal his quote:

This thread is embarrassing.

I want to be moved into the Colts forum witness protection program. Request name change to Johnny McFacepalms.

Not only is this thread embarrassing, but many, if not most, of the front page is causing my forehead to breakout in acne due to the extended amount of time that my sweaty hand is cradled there.

Guidelines for worried Colts fans:

1: We don't need to fire Caldwell at the beginning of the season, he hasn't had a losing season yet.

2: Terrel Owens and Randy Moss aren't an upgrade.

3: QB's with any credentials aren't going to be interested in holding Manning's clipboard for the next 4 years.

4: We've done everything we can to install a better run game except give Jeff Saturday a flamethrower.

5: Marvin Harrison isn't coming back.

6: Curtis Painter sucks but he isn't going to do anything after week 1 but look like a 240 pound surfer dude while high fiving Manning after yet another 85 yard TD drive.

7: Our defense will look good when they aren't on the field for 25 minutes per half.

8: It's week 2 preseason. Sit down, shut up and make sure to pre-treat with Shout stain remover the unusually large sweat stains on your Colts gear.

[grmasterb]

I think the 'new' Polian will give him this year to prove he can coach. He really looks like he is holding on to what Dungy created. I'll give him this year, and if it's obvious a change is needed, I bet he's gone.

Agreed. And if memory serves, Caldwell was given a four-year contract when he was promoted to HC. So, it would seem that the Colts would either want to extend or release Caldwell after this season rather than have him coach in a lame-duck season. I don't think you'll see the front office play games in the last years of Manning's career here.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Mike Tomlin had no head coaching experience when he was hired by the Steelers. And if memory serves, neither did Bill Cowher.

Tomlin had 4 years as a defensive coordinator.

Cowher had 2.

Most head coaches coordinate the offense or the defense or in a rare case the Special teams like John Harbaugh did. Every head coach gets his 1st head coaching job somewhere. The Colts weren't the type of team that needed to break in a new head coach even if he remained from the previous staff. It is really sad that he is learning on the job. You don't do that with a Hall of Fame Quarterback going from his prime to his final years.

and yet Caldwell has taken us to as many Super Bowls as all the other coaches that have coached Manning combined...

He didn't take us anywhere. He was along for the ride and then we made the playoffs in spite of him but couldn't beat the Jets in spite of him.

[21isSuperman]

Guidelines for worried Colts fans:

1: We don't need to fire Caldwell at the beginning of the season, he hasn't had a losing season yet.

2: Terrel Owens and Randy Moss aren't an upgrade.

3: QB's with any credentials aren't going to be interested in holding Manning's clipboard for the next 4 years.

4: We've done everything we can to install a better run game except give Jeff Saturday a flamethrower.

5: Marvin Harrison isn't coming back.

6: Curtis Painter sucks but he isn't going to do anything after week 1 but look like a 240 pound surfer dude while high fiving Manning after yet another 85 yard TD drive.

7: Our defense will look good when they aren't on the field for 25 minutes per half.

8: It's week 2 preseason. Sit down, shut up and make sure to pre-treat with Shout stain remover the unusually large sweat stains on your Colts gear.

I move we add these to the registration process so every new member can see them and send them out to every single member we have. This place is starting to go nuts. Everyday, there's another Joe-schmo who knows next to nothing about football saying we need to fire Caldwell and hire ______, release Painter and sign ________, fire Polian and hire _______, get rid of Irsay for some stupid reason, sign every single free agent out there, etc. It's driving me insane!

[GoColts8818]

Tomlin had 4 years as a defensive coordinator.

Cowher had 2.

Most head coaches coordinate the offense or the defense or in a rare case the Special teams like John Harbaugh did. Every head coach gets his 1st head coaching job somewhere. The Colts weren't the type of team that needed to break in a new head coach even if he remained from the previous staff. It is really sad that he is learning on the job. You don't do that with a Hall of Fame Quarterback going from his prime to his final years.

He didn't take us anywhere. He was along for the ride and then we made the playoffs in spite of him but couldn't beat the Jets in spite of him.

Right... Wasn't it Caldwell who fired Meeks and Prunell something fans had been begging for us to do for years? Wasn't the change in the defensive coaching staff part of the reason we had such a good season Caldwell's first year? I think Caldwell had a little more to do with it than you give him credit for.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Right... Wasn't it Caldwell who fired Meeks and Prunell something fans had been begging for us to do for years? Wasn't the change in the defensive coaching staff part of the reason we had such a good season Caldwell's first year? I think Caldwell had a little more to do with it than you give him credit for.

He might have had a hand in those decisions but that had Polian written all over it to me.

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

I move we add these to the registration process so every new member can see them and send them out to every single member we have. This place is starting to go nuts. Everyday, there's another Joe-schmo who knows next to nothing about football saying we need to fire Caldwell and hire ______, release Painter and sign ________, fire Polian and hire _______, get rid of Irsay for some stupid reason, sign every single free agent out there, etc. It's driving me insane!

If you think this team is ok with Caldwell at the helm, then you sir are ignorant to the game of football. I will not even discuss Painter . And also, how can we get rid of Irsay? Doesn't he own the team? Smart one you are sir lol

[GoColts8818]

He might have had a hand in those decisions but that had Polian written all over it to me.

Really then why was it not done years before that? Give me a break the idea that Polian is secretly coaching the team threw a puppet in Caldwell is laughable.

[BIGugly]

Right... Wasn't it Caldwell who fired Meeks and Prunell something fans had been begging for us to do for years? Wasn't the change in the defensive coaching staff part of the reason we had such a good season Caldwell's first year? I think Caldwell had a little more to do with it than you give him credit for.

I'll guarantee you he has more to do with it than I give him credit for....

[21isSuperman]

Tomlin had 4 years as a defensive coordinator.

Cowher had 2.

Most head coaches coordinate the offense or the defense or in a rare case the Special teams like John Harbaugh did. Every head coach gets his 1st head coaching job somewhere. The Colts weren't the type of team that needed to break in a new head coach even if he remained from the previous staff. It is really sad that he is learning on the job. You don't do that with a Hall of Fame Quarterback going from his prime to his final years.

He didn't take us anywhere. He was along for the ride and then we made the playoffs in spite of him but couldn't beat the Jets in spite of him.

I don't get what you're trying to say with that bolded statement. Obviously, every head coach gets his first head coaching job somewhere...that's like saying every Colts player has played for the Colts.

I'm going to give this to you

:

Do we need a new head coach? No.

Has Caldwell ever missed a tackle, missed a block, thrown an INT or dropped a pass? No.

Did Caldwell injure all of our players last year? No.

Do you know what goes on in Colts' team meetings? No.

Do you know what Caldwell knows about the game of football? No.

Should you ever stop learning when you are a coach, player, scout, GM, anything in the NFL, considering that the NFL is always changing? No.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Really then why was it not done years before that? Give me a break the idea that Polian is secretly coaching the team threw a puppet in Caldwell is laughable.

Where did I saw Polian was coaching the team outside of being the one that ordered the Spitting in the face @ perfection. There might be a valid point in there somewhere if the defense was actually good. It can be good at times, but it's not elite by any means.

Dungy was loyal to a fault, a lot like Mora was. Remember that there is a chain of command and out side of Jim Irsay Polian is the one calling the shots, on personnel and he's not going to allow Caldwell or any coach to hire someone he doesn't agree with.

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

I don't get what you're trying to say with that bolded statement. Obviously, every head coach gets his first head coaching job somewhere...that's like saying every Colts player has played for the Colts.

I'm going to give this to you

:

Do we need a new head coach? No.

Has Caldwell ever missed a tackle, missed a block, thrown an INT or dropped a pass? No.

Did Caldwell injure all of our players last year? No.

Do you know what goes on in Colts' team meetings? No.

Do you know what Caldwell knows about the game of football? No.

Should you ever stop learning when you are a coach, player, scout, GM, anything in the NFL, considering that the NFL is always changing? No.

Would Caldwell win 3 games this season without Manning behind center? No

Will Caldwell be coaching an NFL team 2 years after Manning retires? No

Do the Colts, after this season, need to start looking for a decent coach to build a team for when Manning retires? Yes

Are you Jim Caldwell? Yes or No lol

[unitaswestand]

I do think you have a good point. Jason Whitlock made the point that Brady gets much more help than Manning as far as coaching. Manning hasn't exactly had Bill Walsh for a coach. I do think if we had a Belichick level coach, we would probably have a few more rings. Caldwell is ok, but I feel he is more like George Seifert.

[21isSuperman]

If you think this team is ok with Caldwell at the helm, then you sir are ignorant to the game of football. I will not even discuss Painter . And also, how can we get rid of Irsay? Doesn't he own the team? Smart one you are sir lol

I will be the first person to tell you that I don't know everything about the game of football. In fact, I know very little and I admit that.

Regarding Caldwell - he has taken us to a Super Bowl, 2 consecutive division titles and one of those with the most injuries I have ever seen on a football team. You are not giving him enough credit, you don't know what kind of impact he has on the team. You only see him periodically on TV on Sundays, you don't see what he knows about the game of football, you don't see what kind of gameplanning he does, you don't see the full impact he has to the team.

Regarding Painter - I'm confident that Manning will start week 1, Painter knows our system better than any other QB out there. Not only would a good backup cost more than our FO is willing to pay a guy to hold a clipboard, but if Manning goes down, we will not do very well regardless of who is QB. Our offense is not complicated, it's success is based on execution. You can't take a guy like Kitna, plug him in and expect him to do well. To execute our offense well, you need many practice reps and time to develop chemistry with the WRs. Painter has more of both of those than any other QB out there. I don't think Painter will ever be a good NFL QB, but without Manning, we wouldn't do that well regardless of who you want to put as a backup QB.

Regarding Irsay - I never said I wanted to remove him, but I distinctly remember seeing a thread on here a while ago that asked "How can we get rid of Irsay?" and everyone's response was the exact same: we can't, he is the owner. I am comfortable with Irsay as our owner, he knows what he is doing.

[BOTT]

Tony Dungy didn't "road" anyone's coattails. He built his own championship team in Tampa that was inherited by Gruden. Yet some people want Gruden here even though he's done nothing relevant before or since...

Caldwell inherited from Dungy, and his record speaks for itself thus far. This thread is completely out of line and needs to die in a horrible fire.

tony dungy didn't build the team in tampa. the core of that defense was drafted before dungy was even hired. and considering what gruden was able to do in oakland while working for crazy al...i would call that far from irrelevant. if colt fans are to be honest, dungy had a rep for underachieving in the playoffs while in tampa...and for the most part did nothing to damage that rep while in indy.

his record speaks for itself? paul westhead won a championship coaching the lakers...and was promptly fired and replace with pat riley. guess what? it was the correct decision.

[BIGugly]

As head coach, he had ONE winning season before he signed on with Dungy. It was at Wake Forrest.

He comes in here and inherits Dungy's team that Manning leada to the Super Bowl. He gets us beat because he is in over his head.

Next year he wins 10 ball games. About Seven of those by less than a TD. Poorest clock management I EVER saw. Granted injuries didn't help him any..

Meanwhile he looses Mudd and Moore. they obviously don't want to continue on with his outfit.

THIS is his defining year. He either makes it, or we go after Bill Cowher,

or Pete, or YDFL Commish...

So says BIGugly, so it is.

[GoColts8818]

Where did I saw Polian was coaching the team outside of being the one that ordered the Spitting in the face @ perfection. There might be a valid point in there somewhere if the defense was actually good. It can be good at times, but it's not elite by any means.

Dungy was loyal to a fault, a lot like Mora was. Remember that there is a chain of command and out side of Jim Irsay Polian is the one calling the shots, on personnel and he's not going to allow Caldwell or any coach to hire someone he doesn't agree with.

You implyed what else did you mean when you said it had Polian writen all over it?

Also please provide proof that it was Polian who order the end of the perfect season? Resting the starters did not start with Polian it started with Dungy who happened to train Caldwell. Why is it such a reach for some to think that just maybe Caldwell did what his mentor taught him? When we were in a spot under Polian and Mora where we could sit the starters against the Bills we did not in fact we kept them in the game when it was well out of reach. That tells me Polian let's his coaches coach the team and just backs them up.

There is also the little factor that Caldwell is the one who had to take the starters out of the game. No one else could. Polian couldn't make the call from the press box and the players sure as heck didn't take themselves out.

Yes but Polian doesn't call all the shots there is a story from Dungy talking about being in the draft war room and he said it was very much give and take and talked about how he to sell Polian on Bob Sanders and Polian had to sell him on Dwight Freeney. Polian like any good GM listens to his coaches, if he did there is no way Marv Levy, Don Cappers, Jim Mora, or Tony Dungy would have worked for him as long as they did.

[ruksak]

I move we add these to the registration process so every new member can see them and send them out to every single member we have. This place is starting to go nuts. Everyday, there's another Joe-schmo who knows next to nothing about football saying we need to fire Caldwell and hire ______, release Painter and sign ________, fire Polian and hire _______, get rid of Irsay for some stupid reason, sign every single free agent out there, etc. It's driving me insane!

Today I was really looking forward to watchin some football and parking my butt here to talk football. After several visits, it became fast apparent that most people just want to complain, and I can either join them, jump in and retort them or just do something else. I did something else. The topper was the suggestion of bringing Jamarcus Russel to Indy. :tvhammer:

[21isSuperman]

Would Caldwell win 3 games this season without Manning behind center? No

Will Caldwell be coaching an NFL team 2 years after Manning retires? No

Do the Colts, after this season, need to start looking for a decent coach to build a team for when Manning retires? Yes

Are you Jim Caldwell? Yes or No lol

Please don't take any of what I say as a personal shot or attack. I know that when we get into a discussion, things may come out and be read incorrectly. So please don't take any of what I say as a personal attack.

No, Caldwell wouldn't win 3 games without Manning. But would Fisher, Cowher or Gruden win more than that coaching a Manning-less Colts team? Who is to say whether or not Caldwell will be coaching in the NFL after Manning retires. I can't say definitively whether or not he will because I don't know. I don't know what kind of impact he has to the team, so I can't say. Why would the Colts start looking for a new head coach? Unless Caldwell forfeits every game or something similar, I don't see any reason why we would need a new head coach. He has a pretty good track record so far.

[BOTT]

I do think you have a good point. Jason Whitlock made the point that Brady gets much more help than Manning as far as coaching. Manning hasn't exactly had Bill Walsh for a coach. I do think if we had a Belichick level coach, we would probably have a few more rings. Caldwell is ok, but I feel he is more like George Seifert.

and think rex ryan said the same thing in the playoffs last year...in a more subtle way.

[GoColts8818]

As head coach, he had ONE winning season before he signed on with Dungy. It was at Wake Forrest.

He comes in here and inherits Dungy's team that Manning leada to the Super Bowl. He gets us beat because he is in over his head.

Next year he wins 10 ball games. About Seven of those by less than a TD. Poorest clock management I EVER saw. Granted injuries didn't help him any..

Meanwhile he looses Mudd and Moore. they obviously don't want to continue on with his outfit.

THIS is his defining year. He either makes it, or we go after Bill Cowher,

or Pete, or YDFL Commish...

So says BIGugly, so it is.

We got beat because Garcon dropped a pass, Baskett didn't recover a kick, we had no pass rush after Freeney's injury took hold, and Peyton threw a pick. What happened on the field had a lot more with us losing the Super Bowl than anyone else.

Also Caldwell wouldn't be the first coach not to work at one place and work in another. Just ask BB about his Cleveland Browns days or Pete Carrol about his days with the Pats and Jets. Also let's not kid ourselves Wake Forrest isn't exactly a football power house. Till Jim Grobe came along no coach was there. Sometimes, more so in college than the NFL, you just can't win places no matter who you are.

You do know us winning 10 games last year with all the injuries we had was remarkable right? Yes I know the Packers won the Super Bowl last year with injuries but history has shown us that when it comes to injuries what the Colts and Packers did last year was remarkable.

Is Caldwell perfect? Not even close. I agree his time management skills are lacking. He's still 26-8 and been to a Super Bowl. He gets some of the credit for that because he's the head coach. If people want to lay all the blame at him when things go wrong becuase he's the coach then you have to give credit to him when things go well.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't get what you're trying to say with that bolded statement. Obviously, every head coach gets his first head coaching job somewhere...that's like saying every Colts player has played for the Colts.

I'm going to give this to you

:

Do we need a new head coach? No.

Has Caldwell ever missed a tackle, missed a block, thrown an INT or dropped a pass? No.

Did Caldwell injure all of our players last year? No.

Do you know what goes on in Colts' team meetings? No.

Do you know what Caldwell knows about the game of football? No.

Should you ever stop learning when you are a coach, player, scout, GM, anything in the NFL, considering that the NFL is always changing? No.

It was in response to this:

grmasterb, on 21 August 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Mike Tomlin had no head coaching experience when he was hired by the Steelers. And if memory serves, neither did Bill Cowher.

A team has two options. They hire a coach without head coaching experience or they hire a coach with head coaching experience. Most first year head coaches have experience running an offense or defense on the NFL level. When Dungy retired we had far better options out there that had more experience. 50%+ of the coaches fired/resigned over the past 3 to 4 years would be a huge upgrade to Caldwell

Team/Coach/ Years Coordinating O/D/ST prior to 1st head coaching job:

AZ Whisenhunt 0 N/A

ATL Smith 5 years D

BLT Harbaugh 10 years ST

BUF Gailey 4 years O

CAR Rivera 6 D

CHI Smith 3 D

CIN Lewis 7 D

CLE Shurmur 2 O

DAL Garrett 4 O

DEN Fox 7 D

DET Schwartz 8 D

GB Mcarthy 6 O

HOU Kubiak 11 O

IND Caldwell 0 N/A

JAX Del Rio 5 D

KC Haley 2 O

MIA Sparano 0 N/A

MIN Frazier 6 D

NYG Belichick 6 D

NO Payton 3 O

NYG Coughlin 0 N/A

NYJ Ryan 5 D

OAK Jackson 3 O

PHI Reid 0 N/A

PIT Tomlin 4 D

SD Turner 7 O

SF Harbaugh 0 N/A

SEA Carroll 6 D

STL Spagnuolo 2 D

TB Morris 0 N/A

TEN Munchak 0 N/A

WAS Shanahan 3 O

The current head coaches average nearly 4 years as being a coordinator. Out of the ones that didn't have any coordinator experience (Coughlin & Jim Harabaugh had success on the college level. Only one of them has won a ring (Coughlin). Reid, Caldwell & Whisenhunt had teams in the Super Bowl.

Maybe I have high standards. Maybe I prefer a coach who coaches(Ryan, Belichick etc) Of course they are more hands on and were coordinators, and Caldwell is more of a CEO mode without the qualifications. He wants to be Dungy, and he's not.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You implyed what else did you mean when you said it had Polian writen all over it?

Also please provide proof that it was Polian who order the end of the perfect season? Resting the starters did not start with Polian it started with Dungy who happened to train Caldwell. Why is it such a reach for some to think that just maybe Caldwell did what his mentor taught him? When we were in a spot under Polian and Mora where we could sit the starters against the Bills we did not in fact we kept them in the game when it was well out of reach. That tells me Polian let's his coaches coach the team and just backs them up.

There is also the little factor that Caldwell is the one who had to take the starters out of the game. No one else could. Polian couldn't make the call from the press box and the players sure as heck didn't take themselves out.

Yes but Polian doesn't call all the shots there is a story from Dungy talking about being in the draft war room and he said it was very much give and take and talked about how he to sell Polian on Bob Sanders and Polian had to sell him on Dwight Freeney. Polian like any good GM listens to his coaches, if he did there is no way Marv Levy, Don Cappers, Jim Mora, or Tony Dungy would have worked for him as long as they did.

That Polian has the ego that will make choices. Polian has been on record in directing what we would do. Buffalo did it under his watch. Dungy & Caldwell likely agreed to it or were forced to agree to it. I honestly think Dungy wouldn't have pulled Manning & Company vs. the Jets. He didn't pull them vs. the Chargers in 2005 @ 13-0. Dungy likely had more pull with Polian than Caldwell did/does. The Patriots had a chance at a perfect season. If Brady's knee injury from game 1 the following year would have occurred vs. the Giants in game 16, Belichik would have been questioned/bashed etc.

In my opinion Polian/Caldwell/Irsay had meetings and had scenarios on how the game started, and at what point do you make a change, because if you are going to throw it away why not pull the starters after the opening drive like they have in the past. So I put the perfection mistake on both Caldwell & Polian for spitting in the eye of perfection.

[GoColts8818]

That Polian has the ego that will make choices. Polian has been on record in directing what we would do. Buffalo did it under his watch. Dungy & Caldwell likely agreed to it or were forced to agree to it. I honestly think Dungy wouldn't have pulled Manning & Company vs. the Jets. He didn't pull them vs. the Chargers in 2005 @ 13-0. Dungy likely had more pull with Polian than Caldwell did/does. The Patriots had a chance at a perfect season. If Brady's knee injury from game 1 the following year would have occurred vs. the Giants in game 16, Belichik would have been questioned/bashed etc.

In my opinion Polian/Caldwell/Irsay had meetings and had scenarios on how the game started, and at what point do you make a change, because if you are going to throw it away why not pull the starters after the opening drive like they have in the past. So I put the perfection mistake on both Caldwell & Polian for spitting in the eye of perfection.

I can honestly agree with you on most of this. I almost agree with completely on the second paragraph about a meeting behing held on how to handle the resting the starters. I think they all agreed on how it should be done but I think it was Caldwell's call. Just as I think it was Mora's call to play them in almost the same spot vs. the Bills or Dungy's call to go for it against the Chargers. I don't think Caldwell just got called into Polian's office one day and told what to do like some make it seem liked happen.

I also agree that the way they handled the whole pulling the starters thing was a mistake. They should have at least clued the players in on what was going to happen before hand and got them on board with it. I think they did it the way they did because of what happen 05 when it was clear they had too much rest. Still the way they handled it was clearly a PR nightmare and Polian became the face of it because he's the one who had to face the music for it on his radio show the next day and he had such a bad message to the fans about it he became the face of it.

What I don't agree with you on is that Caldwell has less pull than Dungy does. I think Caldwell is the head coach and he has just as much pull as any coach does. Again if Polian was as forcefull as some fans think he is there is no way a guy like Jim Mora (who has no problem speaking his mind) would have worked for him. I agree with you Polian has an ego the size of Lucis Oil Stadium but he's also smart enough to listen to the people he hires.

[Gunsdontkill_Bullitdoes]

Dungy was a great coach. Caldwell attempts to be Dungy, but without the brains. We need a head coach that can turn our defense into a monster, and willing to listen to Manning to get him what he needs on the offense -- like Dungy did. It is to close to the season to get a new coach, but I would like to see Caldwell back into a support role, and a new hire coach.