Band-Aid Ballard

[CurBeatElite]

23 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

This is sort of a fallacy where we act like the Colts had no choice but to trade for Wentz. And even if I came up with an answer, people would just say "hindsight is 20/20."

 

But I will play along.

 

Option A - Keep the #13 pick in 2020. Use that in conjunction with your 2021 1st round pick, 2022 1st round pick to move up to #4 for Justin Herbert. No way the NYG pass on that...and the Colts might have even gotten back something like a 4th rounder.

 

Prior to doing this blockbuster, use FA to bolster the DT position and any other positions you might want to (depending on cap space and if you did or didn't sign Rivers). 

 

Players Lost

• DeForest Buckner
• Kwity Paye
• Carson Wentz

Money Back

• $18M in 2020 (difference between DeFo and Herbert)
• $41-42M in 2021 (DeFo + Wentz + Paye)
• $47M in 2022 (DeFo + Wentz + Paye)

Moves Made

• Sign Javon Hargrave for 3/$33M in 2020 ($11M AAV)
• Sign Trey Hendrickson for 4/$60M in 2021 ($15M AAV)
• Retain Autry for 3/$24M in 2021 ($8M AAV)

Money Gained

• $7M in 2020 (DeFo - (Hargrave + Herbert))
• $3-4M in 2021 ((DeFo + Wentz + Paye) - (Hargrave + Herbert + Hendrickson + Autry))
• $7M in 2022 ((DeFo + Wentz + Paye) - (Hargrave + Herbert + Hendrickson + Autry))

Players Gained

• Javon Hargrave (2020-)
• Trey Hendrickson (2021-)
• Denico Autry (2021-)
• Justin Herbert (2020-)

 

You could also sub out Hendrickson for Judon or Ngakoue and re-do the math. Either way, you actually save cap space AND likely get better production out of a Hargrave + Hendrickson/Judon/Ngakoue + Autry DL.

 

And with Autry, maybe you don't draft Dayo, which becomes another player (possibly Freiermuth).

 

And of course and most importantly, you get Justin Herbert on a rookie deal.

 

That's just one option. The easier option of course is swapping out Paye + Wentz for Fields/Jones (and getting back Wentz's cap hit).

Thanks. This all seems like it would have been feasible. 

 

The main thing you didn't really address is if we would have fixed our pass protection, WR and TE. I'm not sure Herbert would be putting up the same numbers with us, or if he'd be significantly better than Wentz if he had the same supporting cast. 

 

I didn't mean for it to be a statement where we only had the option to trade for Wentz. More that you are the only person who put together a reasonable other potential plan taking other moves into account. Most people who are bashing Ballard for getting Wentz are crying about a problem but offering no potential solutions to how he could have done anything better. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It really bugs me that no one else is being held accountable accept the QB.  Not talking head coach. But coordinators and assistants. Kevin Bowen mentioned someone from the outside with a fresh mind needs to come in to help with the offense. Defense needs a makeover too. Everyone but Ballard sees how bad the WR group is. 

[Defjamz26]

I disagree with the overall tone in the first post in regards to how Ballard how handled the QB situation. Some of that is unfair.

 

I don’t disagree with the overall sentiment though. Ballard even said himself in his presser that he’s tired of putting a bandaid on the situation. The veteran option is one I’m never a fan of. Not many of those guys go onto win Super Bowls. The only recent ones have been Manning and Brady but those are first ballet HOF’ers. Veteran QBs are always bandaids because the good ones don’t ever hit the FA market. 
 

At this point, I think drafting a QB in the 1st two rounds is inevitable at this point. This is the perfect draft for it too. If you don’t want to trade up for a guy spend a 2nd on a guy who’s got the baseline (accuracy, IQ, and character) skills and coach him up. 

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It really bugs me that no one else is being held accountable accept the QB.  Not talking head coach. But coordinators and assistants. Kevin Bowen mentioned someone from the outside with a fresh mind needs to come in to help with the offense. Defense needs a makeover too. Everyone but Ballard sees how bad the WR group is. 

I think we will just have to be patient as all of these interviews are completed and  new hires are made around the league.  There are a ton of interviews scheduled too. Amazing number.  We could easily lose some coaches or office personnel.  Changes are coming.  First we have to see who we lose if any.   Then moves will be made to start the ball rolling.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think we will just have to be patient as all of these interviews are completed and  new hires are made around the league.  There are a ton of interviews scheduled too. Amazing number.  We could easily lose some coaches or office personnel.  Changes are coming.  First we have to see who we lose if any.   Then moves will be made to start the ball rolling.

I get he doesn’t want to hurt a guy like Eberflus chances at a HC. Maybe that’s why there was so much praise in his presser for him, I just want the SB over so we can get closer to FA and put the QB stuff to bed once and for all and see if Ballard has the guts to fix issues.

[shasta519]

38 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

Thanks. This all seems like it would have been feasible. 

 

The main thing you didn't really address is if we would have fixed our pass protection, WR and TE. I'm not sure Herbert would be putting up the same numbers with us, or if he'd be significantly better than Wentz if he had the same supporting cast. 

 

I didn't mean for it to be a statement where we only had the option to trade for Wentz. More that you are the only person who put together a reasonable other potential plan taking other moves into account. Most people who are bashing Ballard for getting Wentz are crying about a problem but offering no potential solutions to how he could have done anything better. 

 

That's fair. But those issues with pass protection, WR and TE exist anyways. Ballard probably goes after Fisher instead of Leno no matter who the QB is.

 

I think with Autry here, perhaps they take someone else in the 2nd round...maybe a TE (Freiermuth) or trade up for a LT prospect. 

 

Maybe they could also have parlayed some of those cap savings into a TE or maybe even a WR like Marvin Jones.

 

 

[Two_pound]

What get's me about all this ultra whining at qb is this-who else could we have gotten?? How many qb's drafted in the first round over the past 4 seasons could we have realistically had? And even more importantly, how many would we have wanted? Do you people not see how the quarterbacks are so ineffective and bad? Burrow and Herbert are the only 2 that have a chance to be good. When we drafted Luck we had to deliberately lose a lot of games in 2011 to get that top pick. That's right people, there is no way Polian, Caldwell and who ever else was on that coaching staff thought Painter was an nfl  quarterback. It is what it is. We maybe could have had Herbert if we hadn't traded that 1st round pick for all pro dt Buckner. And apparently there is no need for an all pro defensive tackle since all we do is sit back in soft triple vanilla zone defense  with no attacking pressure(something that Buckner is very good at).

[CurBeatElite]

29 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's fair. But those issues with pass protection, WR and TE exist anyways. Ballard probably goes after Fisher instead of Leno no matter who the QB is.

 

I think with Autry here, perhaps they take someone else in the 2nd round...maybe a TE (Freiermuth) or trade up for a LT prospect. 

 

Maybe they could also have parlayed some of those cap savings into a TE or maybe even a WR like Marvin Jones.

 

 

I think part of letting Autry go was he wanted a long-term deal and he's on the wrong side of 30. I think Ballard is on record saying Dayo would've been a 1st round pick if not for coming off injury. Autry had a nice year this year, but if he starts to trail off, and if Dayo becomes very productive for 5+ years for us, it works out for us.

 

I get that the wr/te/lt issues exist anyway. My point is that in LA, Herbert has 2 wrs who are better than our top WR (maybe we can say Keenan Allen is for sure better than Pittman and M Williams is equal to or greater than Pittman as a wr), and a TE in Cook who is a better receiver than any of our tes, plus in Ekeler he has arguably the best receiving rb in the NFL. I think it's fair to assume Wentz would put up more yards and TDs in that offense and Herbert would have worse numbers in our offense. 

 

Herbert has played surprisingly well in his first 2 years.  If he came in as a rookie to a team where Zach Pascal was his top WR for a good chunk of his rookie year (had similarnumberstoTY and TY was hobbled a bit in the 15 games he played), and had Wentz' supporting cast in year 2, I don't think he'd be a probowler, and definitely don't think he'd be a 5000 yard passer.  

 

It's impossible to know for sure, but I don't know Herbert would be significantly better than Wentz in the offense Wentz had this season. I doubt he would've been better than Rivers was last year. Say we went 9-8 and missed the playoffs with Herbert this year and he had major rookie struggles last year (reasonable to assume, given his wr corps)... would Ballard be getting a ton of crap for trading up to get him? Probably, at least from this board.