Why is Darius in a boot?

[Hark]

Saw this pic from a Big Brothers/ Big sisters event last night. Really glad Darius supported that worthy cause, but why is he in a boot? Did I miss something with an injury?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s not serious. He was also at a carnival with EJ Speed and there was no boot. He was running around like a maniac.m

 

This might of been from a week ago or so. He was in Fort Wayne as the guest speaker.

[Hark]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It’s not serious. He was also at a carnival with EJ Speed and there was no boot. He was running around like a maniac.m

 

This might of been from a week ago or so. He was in Fort Wayne as the guest speaker.

Thanks. That is a relief. Glad he is ok.

[Four2itus]

[Bravo]

Good thing the Colts let their 100+ tackle machine not named Darius Leonard go to the Browns.

[dew5150]

It's from kicking so much butt in the off season

[Nickster]

Celebrity bullriding?  You gotta be a maniac to do that manure.

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

Good thing the Colts let their 100+ tackle machine not named Darius Leonard go to the Browns.

 

Pat angerer was a "100+ tackle machine" at one time too

[AKB]

Walker is good but lets not pretend like he wasn't a liability in coverage. He did have a few good swats while here, but cmon. Walker is a good LB, but with how the team is stacked rn there wasn't a lot of reason to keep him around. Friendships and leaders are great, but when you have a top 3 LB in Darius, and very good depth behind him, you have to make a decision. Couple that with the unknown cap situation and the likes of Okereke, Speed, and Franklin sitting on the bench. It really was an obvious decision to make. 

 

I think Pascal was a similar type player, but we simply don't have the depth at WR to let him walk. no pun intended. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Walker is good but lets not pretend like he wasn't a liability in coverage. He did have a few good swats while here, but cmon. Walker is a good LB, but with how the team is stacked rn there wasn't a lot of reason to keep him around. Friendships and leaders are great, but when you have a top 3 LB in Darius, and very good depth behind him, you have to make a decision. Couple that with the unknown cap situation and the likes of Okereke, Speed, and Franklin sitting on the bench. It really was an obvious decision to make. 

 

I think Pascal was a similar type player, but we simply don't have the depth at WR to let him walk. no pun intended. 

Ballard raved about Zach today in that interview I posted. I hope we can keep him after this year. It’s going to be hard though with Hines, Turay, and Lewis hitting FA. Not to mention Fisher and the big 3. We may have to draft another WR in the second or third round. May lose Hilton too. This next off season is probably going to be the year Ballard is going to have to make some tough decisions and have to let players walk he really wants to keep.

[Bravo]

3 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Walker is good but lets not pretend like he wasn't a liability in coverage. He did have a few good swats while here, but cmon. Walker is a good LB, but with how the team is stacked rn there wasn't a lot of reason to keep him around. Friendships and leaders are great, but when you have a top 3 LB in Darius, and very good depth behind him, you have to make a decision. Couple that with the unknown cap situation and the likes of Okereke, Speed, and Franklin sitting on the bench. It really was an obvious decision to make. 

 

I think Pascal was a similar type player, but we simply don't have the depth at WR to let him walk. no pun intended. 

Oh I agree. Walker was awful in coverage. But he was still a decent rotational piece to our defense who is by far better than any backup they have after Leonard and Okereke

[Hoose]

Can’t keep and re-sign everyone. Walker is an example of how it’s going to be in the future. Some Very good players are going to walk because the Colts will be forced by the cap to let ‘em go. Thats the plight of the well built team in the modern cap era, and why  drafting well is so critical to sustaining that success. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Hoose said:

Can’t keep and re-sign everyone. Walker is an example of how it’s going to be in the future. Some Very good players are going to walk because the Colts will be forced by the cap to let ‘em go. Thats the plight of the well built team in the modern cap era, and why  drafting well is so critical to sustaining that success. 

Much agreed.

 

Here’s a hypothetical about what you think will happen in the next few years as we churn the roster. 
** Doyle retires and is replaced by a Day 2 pick.  
** We let Glow walk and he’s replaced by Reed or Pinter. 
** We let TYH walk or retire and he’s replaced by someone on our roster or draft pick. 
** We let Rhodes walk or retire before replacing with Tell or high pick.
** We let Mack walk and replace him with a Day 3 pick or FA. 

** We let Stewart walk and replace him with a draft pick or FA. 
 

I think this is roughly what we can expect over the next few years.  

[Blueblood23]

20 hours ago, Hark said:

Saw this pic from a Big Brothers/ Big sisters event last night. Really glad Darius supported that worthy cause, but why is he in a boot? Did I miss something with an injury?

Man does he look small to play linebacker in the NFL.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Darius is having his kids camp today and he has no boot on. Hopefully whatever it was if fixed. He has had ankle issues in the past so maybe he just had a cleanup procedure.

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Much agreed.

 

Here’s a hypothetical about what you think will happen in the next few years as we churn the roster. 
** Doyle retires and is replaced by a Day 2 pick.  
** We let Glow walk and he’s replaced by Reed or Pinter. 
** We let TYH walk or retire and he’s replaced by someone on our roster or draft pick. 
** We let Rhodes walk or retire before replacing with Tell or high pick.
** We let Mack walk and replace him with a Day 3 pick or FA. 

** We let Stewart walk and replace him with a draft pick or FA. 
 

I think this is roughly what we can expect over the next few years.  

Stewart was just signed to a 3 year extension the end of last year. 

[AKB]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Much agreed.

 

Here’s a hypothetical about what you think will happen in the next few years as we churn the roster. 
** Doyle retires and is replaced by a Day 2 pick.  
** We let Glow walk and he’s replaced by Reed or Pinter. 
** We let TYH walk or retire and he’s replaced by someone on our roster or draft pick. 
** We let Rhodes walk or retire before replacing with Tell or high pick.
** We let Mack walk and replace him with a Day 3 pick or FA. 

** We let Stewart walk and replace him with a draft pick or FA. 
 

I think this is roughly what we can expect over the next few years.  

I don't think TY is retiring. I think he signs a 2 year deal after this season. 

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I don't think TY is retiring. I think he signs a 2 year deal after this season. 

He very well might.  The question is….  With which team?   He’s going to have to have a great year this year for the Colts to sign him to a 2-year deal. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Stewart was just signed to a 3 year extension the end of last year. 

Understood, thanks. 
 

Oddly enough, the details from Spotrac show the deal has two early outs.   One after this year, one after next year.   I’m not predicting we’ll use them, but it’s possible.  
 

FWIW,  I’m with you on Stewart.  I don’t see him as a $10m a year player either.   Good, but not that good.   Maybe he plays better this year?   Maybe not. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Understood, thanks. 
 

Oddly enough, the details from Spotrac show the deal has two early outs.   One after this year, one after next year.   I’m not predicting we’ll use them, but it’s possible.  
 

FWIW,  I’m with you on Stewart.  I don’t see him as a $10m a year player either.   Good, but not that good.   Maybe he plays better this year?   Maybe not. 

 

I used the words "modest" to describe his extension earlier in another thread, but looking at the current ranks (he's the 14th highest paid DT), it's not so modest. I thought the pay for DTs was a bit higher on average. His pay ranking seems a lot more generous than his play would call for. 10M/year isn't huge, but still. I only see one "out", after this season though.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I used the words "modest" to describe his extension earlier in another thread, but looking at the current ranks (he's the 14th highest paid DT), it's not so modest. I thought the pay for DTs was a bit higher on average. His pay ranking seems a lot more generous than his play would call for. 10M/year isn't huge, but still. I only see one "out", after this season though.

The Spotrac page says the first out after 2021.     The dead cap hit is roughly $2.5 mill.

 

But after 2022, the dead cap hit is roughly half that.    
 

Put another way….  21 is the first year of his 3-year deal.   There are outs after 21 and 22. 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The Spotrac page says the first out after 2021.     The dead cap hit is roughly $2.5 mill.

 

But after 2022, the dead cap hit is roughly half that.    
 

Put another way….  21 is the first year of his 3-year deal.   There are outs after 21 and 22. 

a Potential Out is a contract clause from what I understand. The 21 out lets the team team save 1.5M in dead cap (from a total of 4M). There is no out as far as I can see that would save them dead cap (it's only 1.5 in 2023), but there is no contractual "Potential Out" for the team. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

a Potential Out is a contract clause from what I understand. The 21 out lets the team team save 1.5M in dead cap (from a total of 4M). There is no out as far as I can see that would save them dead cap (it's only 1.5 in 2023), but there is no contractual "Potential Out" for the team. 

That’s not my understanding.   
 

You can get out whenever you want.   You just have to be willing to take the dead cap hit.   We could cut Stewart today if we wanted.  But the DC Hit is cost prohibitive.   But the numbers are far more manageable after 21 and 22.

 

Perhaps @Superman and @w87r  can confirm one way or the other.  

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s not my understanding.   
 

You can get out whenever you want.   You just have to be willing to take the dead cap hit.   We could cut Stewart today if we wanted.  But the DC Hit is cost prohibitive.   But the numbers are far more manageable after 21 and 22.

 

Perhaps @Superman and @w87r  can confirm one way or the other.  

You can always cut a player whenever you want, but you're on the hook for the dead cap unless there is an "out" from my understanding. The way I read it, there is a specific "out" available after this year, and it would save them 1.5M in DC. That's not really a big number, but for some reason, it's how the out looks to have been written. There's only 4M total in DC after this year, the hit wouldn't be big regardless.

[Superman]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s not my understanding.   
 

You can get out whenever you want.   You just have to be willing to take the dead cap hit.   We could cut Stewart today if we wanted.  But the DC Hit is cost prohibitive.   But the numbers are far more manageable after 21 and 22.

 

Perhaps @Superman and @w87r  can confirm one way or the other.  

 

His 2021 salary and roster bonus are guaranteed as of March, so yeah his cap penalty would be prohibitive, and it wouldn't save the Colts any cash or cap space. Most of his 2022 salary and his roster bonus will be guaranteed as of March 2022.

 

I don't agree with considering him as a cap casualty, not at this point. He's our second best DL, he plays a critical role in the run defense, and his salary is right in line with league standards for his play and production. He was very good in 2020, and if he keeps playing well in 2021 he should be retained into 2022. No issues with the other suggestions, but Stewart is in good shape IMO. 

[w87r]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s not my understanding.   
 

You can get out whenever you want.   You just have to be willing to take the dead cap hit.   We could cut Stewart today if we wanted.  But the DC Hit is cost prohibitive.   But the numbers are far more manageable after 21 and 22.

 

Perhaps @Superman and @w87r  can confirm one way or the other.  

I think your guy's issue is with the definition of an "out".

 

NCF is defining it as a reasonable dead cap hit to get out of remainder of contract if wanted.

 

EastStreet is defining it as something specific written in a contract as way to get out of deal. 

 

Either way Stewart isn't going anyway this season, unless he is traded. The dead cap hit is more to release him then it is to keep him, $3.5m savings of they trade him.

 

2021:

Keep:

$8.25m

Release:

$10.4m Dead Cap

Trade:

$4.75m Dead Cap

 

2022:

Keep:

$10.625m

Release:

$2.5m

 

2023:

Keep:

$10.625m

Release:

$1.25m

 

 

 

Grover Stewart's contract was definitely written in to have to big potential outs as NCF said. With potential cap savings of $8.125m in 2022, $9.5m in 2023. Even if it wasn't "written" in the contract as an out like EastStreet was talking about.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

His 2021 salary and roster bonus are guaranteed as of March, so yeah his cap penalty would be prohibitive, and it wouldn't save the Colts any cash or cap space. Most of his 2022 salary and his roster bonus will be guaranteed as of March 2022.

 

I don't agree with considering him as a cap casualty, not at this point. He's our second best DL, he plays a critical role in the run defense, and his salary is right in line with league standards for his play and production. He was very good in 2020, and if he keeps playing well in 2021 he should be retained into 2022. No issues with the other suggestions, but Stewart is in good shape IMO. 

Thanks for responding on the 4th of July.  But if you look at my post again,  I wasn’t talking about all those players as possible cuts this year.   Just in the next few years. 
 

And my specific point, my question, was this:

 

Are “outs” in a contract a matter of language?   That it’s literally written into the contract with language saying the team has a one-time window, an “out” to terminate the contract if they choose?

 

Or….

 

Is the so-called “out” simply a reflection of when a players contract becomes more financially reasonable to end it?  The penalties for dead cap money are now small enough that the players performance no longer warrants keeping him.   Also, like with the Stewart contract, he has a perceived out after Y21.   Doesn’t the team also have an out after Y22?    The out isn’t a one-time opportunity?   If there are multiple years after the perceived out, a team can take it then, or the year after that, or even later if the contract is long enough?

 

Did I clean this up enough for you to understand my meaning?   Or did I make it more confusing!    Thanks for taking another cut at it. 
 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks for responding on the 4th of July.  But if you look at my post again,  I wasn’t talking about all those players as possible cuts this year.   Just in the next few years. 
 

And my specific point, my question, was this:

 

Are “outs” in a contract a matter of language?   That it’s literally written into the contract with language saying the team has a one-time window, an “out” to terminate the contract if they choose?

 

Or….

 

Is the so-called “out” simply a reflection of when a players contract becomes more financially reasonable to end it?  The penalties for dead cap money are now small enough that the players performance no longer warrants keeping him.   Also, like with the Stewart contract, he has a perceived out after Y21.   Doesn’t the team also have an out after Y22?    The out isn’t a one-time opportunity?   If there are multiple years after the perceived out, a team can take it then, or the year after that, or even later if the contract is long enough?

 

Did I clean this up enough for you to understand my meaning?   Or did I make it more confusing!    Thanks for taking another cut at it. 
 

You did fine, like always my friend!  I think that Stewart's value is underappreciated as he plays the NT spot on early downs.  He will never have glam stats as that isn't what his role is defined by.  I remember he missed a game or two last year and the Colts got gashed up the middle in the run game.  

 

EDIT:  I was mistaken, he was hurt early in a game and Stallworth replaced him and you could see the difference in the run game.  Grover has been surprisingly healthy for someone who takes on multiple blockers on any given play.

[Superman]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks for responding on the 4th of July.  But if you look at my post again,  I wasn’t talking about all those players as possible cuts this year.   Just in the next few years. 
 

And my specific point, my question, was this:

 

Are “outs” in a contract a matter of language?   That it’s literally written into the contract with language saying the team has a one-time window, an “out” to terminate the contract if they choose?

 

Or….

 

Is the so-called “out” simply a reflection of when a players contract becomes more financially reasonable to end it?  The penalties for dead cap money are now small enough that the players performance no longer warrants keeping him.   Also, like with the Stewart contract, he has a perceived out after Y21.   Doesn’t the team also have an out after Y22?    The out isn’t a one-time opportunity?   If there are multiple years after the perceived out, a team can take it then, or the year after that, or even later if the contract is long enough?

 

Did I clean this up enough for you to understand my meaning?   Or did I make it more confusing!    Thanks for taking another cut at it. 

 

Got it. I was just saying that I think Stewart is worth his contract now, and I expect that will continue to be the case in future years as well. 

 

As for "outs" as the term is commonly used, it's generally referring to the point where the team can release a player without the cap penalty being prohibitive to the cap. It also can reference the point where all the guarantees have been paid, so a team can release a player without owing him any money. Generally, once you reach this point on a contract, it would hold true for future years as well. So 2023 would be considered an "out" for Stewart's deal just like 2022, assuming he's still under contract at that point and has not restructured or signed an extension that changes the math. So usually it's the second understanding you mentioned.

 

But some contracts have player options, or team options, or both. Points where the contract can be terminated by either side. Or option bonuses (team decision). Or voidable years (usually set up to terminate a contract on a specific date, unless there's a restructure or extension). Those would be examples of specific contract language that would constitute a contractual "out," not just a mathematical decision point for the team.

 

Stewart's contract has mo contractual out that I'm aware of. Just a point where the team can release him and save cap space. And that's early March 2022.