Let's address our Qb woes "The running Back"

[horseshoecrabs]

There has been a lot of talk about  Andrew Luck's performance,  Ok let's review,  The man has not been  able to throw the ball until recently, 

 

Right?   He has made errors obviously , But in his defense,  The man is trying again to return to the form he is accustomed to, Why?  Because of

an obvious  lack of a running game .  We have only project running backs at best   Yes we have a new Coach,  and coaches,  a new offensive line

but, to hang this all on Luck is crazy. We surely at this point should not expect Luck to carry the load in his rehab. In his support for his progression

he needs help at running back for now,  And I am not surprised that Jacoby  is ahead of Andrew for now because he can help make up for our obviously lack of a marquee ground attack. Luck needs ground support for now to help him get back into the swing of things. We are expecting to much from Andrew for now. He needs a running game.  We have been a little to easy to think, this will work out with non marquee project unproven RB studs.  I know that we have injuries to our running backs And maybe this will change. Maybe they will show what they can be productive in the future, but for now the  lack of a running game is a bad thing for Luck to get better.

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

No, this Forum was and probably still is Dead Against a Top RB. 

"Why waste a Top pick on a RB, when there are so many other needs elsewhere AND you can always get one in the later rounds or UDFA" is what the majority said.

[OLD FAN MAN]

13 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

No, this Forum was and probably still is Dead Against a Top RB. 

"Why waste a Top pick on a RB, when there are so many other needs elsewhere AND you can always get one in the later rounds or UDFA" is what the majority said.

i concur

[Defjamz26]

The Colts can no longer afford to be the team that can’t run the ball and play defense. It’s why they haven’t won another Super Bowl. I know the Eagles and Patriots use a RBBC approach, but most teams have a top back. Let’s hope Mack or Wilkins emerges.

[dodsworth]

Drafting a RB in the first rd is a Polian esque move as he

did with Edge and Addai. 

Edge has zero titles and Addai has one but wasn't the best

RB on the Colts offense that day, an UDFA named Dominic

Rhodes was.

 

Continue to use the first pick on defense or the lines and it will

pay much more dividends in the end than any skill player, except

the QB position.

[GoColts8818]

58 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Drafting a RB in the first rd is a Polian esque move as he

did with Edge and Addai. 

Edge has zero titles and Addai has one but wasn't the best

RB on the Colts offense that day, an UDFA named Dominic

Rhodes was.

 

Continue to use the first pick on defense or the lines and it will

pay much more dividends in the end than any skill player, except

the QB position.

Remember when they added Peyton they went 3-13 the following year followed up by going 13-3 when they added Edge and he won the rushing title his first two years in the league.  No they didn’t win the Super Bowl when he was here and yes his lack of performance in the playoffs was part of why but let’s not pretend like Edge wasn’t a good player who made a major positive impact on this team and helped them win a lot of games.

 

As for Addai 19 carries for 77 yards plus a Super Bowl record for running backs 10 receptions for 66 yards for a total of 143 yards from scrimedge isn’t a bad day.  Let’s also not forget he scored the touchdown that got the Colts to the Super Bowl not Rhodes. In fact it was Rhodes fumble in that game that nearly cost them.  

 

The Colts could do far worse than following what Polian did.  All it did was lead to the winningest decade in NFL history even if it didn’t end with as many Super Bowls as people would have liked.  If the past three years have proven anything having a franchise QB alone doesn’t guarantee you wins like so many here thought having Peyton did.  You have to have the team around them and that’s what Polian was a master at building.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

most teams have a top back.

 

Nothing wrong with having a top back. 

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

No, this Forum was and probably still is Dead Against a Top RB. 

"Why waste a Top pick on a RB, when there are so many other needs elsewhere AND you can always get one in the later rounds or UDFA" is what the majority said.

It ended up being a moot point as he was gone before the Colts could have taken him.

 

I have no problem having a top back but they don’t do much good if you dont have a line to open holes for them.  

[dodsworth]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Remember when they added Peyton they went 3-13 the following year followed up by going 13-3 when they added Edge and he won the rushing title his first two years in the league.  No they didn’t win the Super Bowl when he was here and yes his lack of performance in the playoffs was part of why but let’s not pretend like Edge wasn’t a good player who made a major positive impact on this team and helped them win a lot of games.

 

As for Addai 19 carries for 77 yards plus a Super Bowl record for running backs 10 receptions for 66 yards for a total of 143 yards from scrimedge isn’t a bad day.  Let’s also not forget he scored the touchdown that got the Colts to the Super Bowl not Rhodes. In fact it was Rhodes fumble in that game that nearly cost them.  

 

The Colts could do far worse than following what Polian did.  All it did was lead to the winningest decade in NFL history even if it didn’t end with as many Super Bowls as people would have liked.  If the past three years have proven anything having a franchise QB alone doesn’t guarantee you wins like so many here thought having Peyton did.  You have to have the team around them and that’s what Polian was a master at building.

During that same timespan, Brady and Belicheck has won 1 title with

a 1st rd rb pick 'Lawrence Maroney'

and 4 without a 1st rd rb pick.

 

I'm just glad that Ballard is not following Polian's blueprint and is using his high picks on defense and

linemen.

 

Polian's theory sold tickets but faltered in the playoffs against tough teams. "Soft football teams" were the Colts under his watch.

[chad72]

16 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

During that same timespan, Brady and Belicheck has won 1 title with

a 1st rd rb pick 'Lawrence Maroney'

and 4 without a 1st rd rb pick.

 

I'm just glad that Ballard is not following Polian's blueprint and is using his high picks on defense and

linemen.

 

Polian's theory sold tickets but faltered in the playoffs against tough teams. "Soft football teams" were the Colts under his watch.

 

His theory was fine early on as long as he played FA for depth on defense, IMO. Corey Simon, Booger McFarland were 2 FA signings that panned out real well for us, just wish he did a few more of it. He did not put a premium on LBs and let guys like Peterson and Thornton go. But overall, I do agree that the team was built outside in, instead of inside out. The continuity of the offensive system should have given us the leeway to not continually draft offensive players in round 1 like Anthony Gonzalez, Donald Brown etc. as time went on. The continuity in NE's offensive system allows them to rarely draft a first round skill position player. Sony Michel was probably the first one since Laurence Maroney.

 

They allowed Ds to play with more contact during the playoffs as well, which hurt our bread and butter, so we had to adapt and couldn't by being unable to run the ball outdoors against most Ds that dared us to run. The one year we did, we won it all. 

[dodsworth]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

His theory was fine early on as long as he played FA for depth on defense, IMO. Corey Simon, Booger McFarland were 2 FA signings that panned out real well for us, just wish he did a few more of it. He did not put a premium on LBs and let guys like Peterson and Thornton go. But overall, I do agree that the team was built outside in, instead of inside out. The continuity of the offensive system should have given us the leeway to not continually draft offensive players in round 1 like Anthony Gonzalez, Donald Brown etc. as time went on. The continuity in NE's offensive system allows them to rarely draft a first round skill position player. Sony Michel was probably the first one since Laurence Maroney.

 

They allowed Ds to play with more contact during the playoffs as well, which hurt our bread and butter, so we had to adapt and couldn't by being unable to run the ball outdoors against most Ds that dared us to run. The one year we did, we won it all. 

I forgot about Gonzalez and "got dang it Donald" were 1st rd picks. 

 

Letting Peterson, Thornton, Lilja and Jake Scott walk were even more reasons the guy didn't understand

that flashy football don't win in the playoffs.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, dodsworth said:

I forgot about Gonzalez and "got dang it Donald" were 1st rd picks. 

 

Letting Peterson, Thornton, Lilja and Jake Scott walk were even more reasons the guy didn't understand

that flashy football don't win in the playoffs.

 

He actually kept Lilja, and let Scott leave. Then Lilja got hurt and never played well again, while Scott put in another 3 years at a high level. But that seemed to be a negotiation gone wrong, not a philosophical issue.

[Malakai432]

Even if Luck continued not to play well, last game probably would've looked MUCH better with Turbin, Mack, Costanzo, Hilton, vs Clark, Ferguson, Michael, Rodgers/Grant  .  

 

That's A/B vs C/D players.   

[Scott Pennock]

Having a 1st Round Draft picked RB is a luxury that this team still cannot afford.

 

With 9 current draft picks for next season (plus the option to trade Brissett for more) I think Ballard will analyze the roster and fill in the blanks that he either missed or failed to hit on picks from 2017 and 2018 drafts. 

 

That would be roughly 30 draft picks he's had to build the foundation of the team.

 

2020 is the year to draft a RB in the 1st Round.

 

In my humble opinion...

[horseshoecrabs]

My point was that we need to be productive running the ball, Not once did I mention drafting a running back high in the draft. It just sort of went south in certain comments.

[King Colt]

A top notch QB with no top notch RB is like a boxer with one arm in theory and in application. The Colts have proven that many, many times.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

A top notch QB with no top notch RB is like a boxer with one arm in theory and in application. The Colts have proven that many, many times.

Just how many to notch RBs has Brady and Rogers had?

[horseshoecrabs]

obviously better running backs than we have had lately 

[Lawrence Owen]

Oh my,...The sky is falling!

On 8/22/2018 at 6:20 PM, horseshoecrabs said:

There has been a lot of talk about  Andrew Luck's performance,  Ok let's review,  The man has not been  able to throw the ball until recently, 

 

Right?   He has made errors obviously , But in his defense,  The man is trying again to return to the form he is accustomed to, Why?  Because of

an obvious  lack of a running game .  We have only project running backs at best   Yes we have a new Coach,  and coaches,  a new offensive line

but, to hang this all on Luck is crazy. We surely at this point should not expect Luck to carry the load in his rehab. In his support for his progression

he needs help at running back for now,  And I am not surprised that Jacoby  is ahead of Andrew for now because he can help make up for our obviously lack of a marquee ground attack. Luck needs ground support for now to help him get back into the swing of things. We are expecting to much from Andrew for now. He needs a running game.  We have been a little to easy to think, this will work out with non marquee project unproven RB studs.  I know that we have injuries to our running backs And maybe this will change. Maybe they will show what they can be productive in the future, but for now the  lack of a running game is a bad thing for Luck to get better.

 

 

Let me tell you this.  Once preseason is over, and the playbook is opened up, the starting O-line is out there, and Mack and Wilkins are sharing carries, you'll understand.  We all will.  I look at our o-line and see a powerful line built to run the ball. (especially up the middle, or off tackle.)  The plays being called are not being called to the strengths of our player personnel in the preseason.  I am sure this will change week 1.  And I think we will be pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

[dodsworth]

16 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Oh my,...The sky is falling!

 

Let me tell you this.  Once preseason is over, and the playbook is opened up, the starting O-line is out there, and Mack and Wilkins are sharing carries, you'll understand.  We all will.  I look at our o-line and see a powerful line built to run the ball. (especially up the middle, or off tackle.)  The plays being called are not being called to the strengths of our player personnel in the preseason.  I am sure this will change week 1.  And I think we will be pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

The rb everyone dreams of may already be on the team in Wilkins. I want to

see this kid running with the 1st string offense.

[Lawrence Owen]

23 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

The rb everyone dreams of may already be on the team in Wilkins. I want to

see this kid running with the 1st string offense.

also, we have not seen Mack since he had his surgery and no more pain in his shoulder.  Reports were he was a LOT better in between the tackles during TC than he was last year.

[Rally5]

On 8/22/2018 at 6:20 PM, horseshoecrabs said:

There has been a lot of talk about  Andrew Luck's performance,  Ok let's review,  The man has not been  able to throw the ball until recently, 

 

Right?   He has made errors obviously , But in his defense,  The man is trying again to return to the form he is accustomed to, Why?  Because of

an obvious  lack of a running game .  We have only project running backs at best   Yes we have a new Coach,  and coaches,  a new offensive line

but, to hang this all on Luck is crazy. We surely at this point should not expect Luck to carry the load in his rehab. In his support for his progression

he needs help at running back for now,  And I am not surprised that Jacoby  is ahead of Andrew for now because he can help make up for our obviously lack of a marquee ground attack. Luck needs ground support for now to help him get back into the swing of things. We are expecting to much from Andrew for now. He needs a running game.  We have been a little to easy to think, this will work out with non marquee project unproven RB studs.  I know that we have injuries to our running backs And maybe this will change. Maybe they will show what they can be productive in the future, but for now the  lack of a running game is a bad thing for Luck to get better.

 

To date, I very optimistic in Mack and Wilkins behind a healthy o-line, not to mentio0n the two TE sets.  I'm a little more worried about a productive #2 WR, which I thought we had solved with Ryan Grant and now I'm not as confident.  But to your point, I really like Mack and I think Wilkins has great instincts and good size.  He's looking to me to have real potential (a dangerous word, I know).

 

[horseshoecrabs]

If this is just smoke and mirrors for the preseason in the games well.... their doing a fantastic job at throwing teams off of our master plan. When your QB (Luck) has 4 rushes for more than our running backs had then there is a elephant  in the room.  Welcome to 2015  Luck. Hope this is just a preseason thing. I truly  believe it is but it is scary to think  that this is ground hog day for Andrew. I hope that I am just being paranoid about our running game. Our current roster of running backs , better be ready to  step it up in the regular season.  Like I said I hope that the pre season is not an indication of our rushing backs.

 

[GoColts8818]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:21 PM, Superman said:

 

He actually kept Lilja, and let Scott leave. Then Lilja got hurt and never played well again, while Scott put in another 3 years at a high level. But that seemed to be a negotiation gone wrong, not a philosophical issue.

Granted we’ve never heard Scott’s side of it to my knowledge but according to Polian they offered Scott a contract bigger than what he got from the Titans and he turned it down thinking he’d get more than he did on the open market.

 

I remember Polian also saying once a guy turns your deal down to go to the open market thinking he will get more they almost always sign some place else for similar or less than come back to you with their tail tucked between their legs.

[King Colt]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:50 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Just how many to notch RBs has Brady and Rogers had?

Go to Patriotsforum.com and Packersforumcom for the answer you seek.

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Go to Patriotsforum.com and Packersforumcom for the answer you seek.

I don't need to go to either web sites.

I know the answer just like you do. Neither Brady or Rogers have top notch RBs and they are two of the top QBs in the league.  Manning won a super bowl with a committee set of RBs.

Need I provide more examples?

[King Colt]

49 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't need to go to either web sites.

I know the answer just like you do. Neither Brady or Rogers have top notch RBs and they are two of the top QBs in the league.  Manning won a super bowl with a committee set of RBs.

Need I provide more examples?

Please don't.