Yes I'm Going To Say It... And I'm Expecting A Backlash Of Sorts

[Indeee]

I will always be a huge Fan of Peyton Manning, However...

Last year right before the CBA was about to be finalized we heard that 4 players including Mr. Manning we're lobbying for " Franchise Tag rights for future players". I put this in quotes as I believe Peyton had his own agenda.

Consider this: Peyton knew before anyone else how injured he actually was. Knowing this he tries to get passed a Franchise Tag stipulation so HE wouldn't be Franchise Tagged under an umbrella of future player rights. It all fell under the guise that he had been tagged previously, which I might add lasted all of a couple days.

Reason Manning really did this: Knowing what we all know now, that Manning wouldn't have played for the Colts or any other team last year, is it possible Irsay would've tagged Manning at about 17 mil instead of agreeing to the contract that Manning has currently? You bet your horse he would have. However a talk happened after the courts threw out the Franchise Tag amendment that we never heard of ( we all know it did ) where Manning told Irsay he didn't want to be Tagged, he wanted a long term deal that would retire him a Colt. No brainer right cuz Manning is all about being a Colt for life and Irsay loves him some Peyton so why wouldn't Irsay give his most prolific player what he wanted. After all Manning was all about being a Colt as he loved his team and the City, ect.. Wrong!! Manning is all about Manning. He got what HE wanted.

Let's look at his deal which came next: From August until now 54 mil upfront. 54 mil in 6 months. What?? When this deal was struck I was like Noooo!! You know why because front loaded money almost gauranteed the Colts not having any real money for real players to surround Manning for future championships while he was still here. Are you kidden me!!?/ Who signed off on this deal? Yep Irsay. Bad decision. Backended money would've been the way to go if Manning was really concerned about winning championships. Keep in mind Peyton knew he was truly injured and knew that it wasn't going to be a quick heal regardless of how much we have heard about him wanting and doing everything he could to get back on the field. I mean really what was he going to say? I just took a boatload of cash from the Colts all the while knowing I wouldn't be ready anytime soon if ever. Ha!! Yea.., yet with this contract Peyton was 100% garaunteed to get HIS MONEY!! Or as it's going to turn out 26 mil of it, where it should've only cost the Colts the tag amount. Again remember Condon and Manning formatted this contract, Irsay was just foolish to sign off on it.

Flash to now: Peyton has had every opportunity to be a complete stand up guy way before the cross talk media stuff between him and Irsay began. If Peyton really wanted to retire a Colt he would've pushed back the date just on " what's right for the Colts and the City and Fans " principles. HE DID NOT. As it wasn't right for Peyton.

It's always been about Peyton Manning and even tho I have been extremely blessed to have had a QB as great as Manning play for the team I so luv and always will it's time for the Colts to become a Team again and not a version of Manning and the Colts.

Now if Manning resigns after being released then I will eat crow as I would be wrong with my thoughts above on how I believe this all went down. However if Manning moves on then All Colts fans hear my views and be thankful not only for time spent but a brighter future to come. A future where we are united again as a team and not held hostage by an albeit great, selfcentered superstar.

Irsay I'm with you Brotha. Let's ride

Peace

[WeSpy]

Whew. Better duck, Indeee, because the rotten fruit, squirt-guns-full-of-sour-milk, and footballs autographed by Peyton are aimed your way!!!

And by the way, I strongly disagree with you.

[JWF]

I dont know about all that.

[hawkeyes]

I'm with you on this ... I think Manning has played his cards well and he is coming out looking pretty darned underhanded! He got a check last year for doing nothing, and now he gets a chance to restructure and play out his career here, but instead hes looking for a pay day! Thats GREEDY! I've always been a HUGE Manning fan as well - at one time I had 60k in Manning FB cards, the last year Ive sold 90% of them - and IF he goes somewhere else I hope it ends up being a horrible decision.

[chad72]

This is a no-win situation for both Manning and Irsay. If Peyton wanted to be as self centered as you wish to imply, he would not have agreed to a 1 yr. contract with a 4 yr. extension format whatsoever. He wanted the deal done in that format because he wanted the Colts to have the first right to say yes or no this offseason. Self-centered ones do not build huge wings in hospitals for children, not to mention all the work the Mannings did in NO post Katrina (never gets mentioned, does it?). One could talk a lot about the economic impact Peyton has had for the city and franchise as well too the last decade, so the $26 mil. is chump change compared to that for not playing a down, at the worst, call it even or push.

If you want to side with Irsay on this, that is fine, there are merits to either side, IMO. But there is no rational basis for you to bash Peyton on his way out. No peace in you, whatsoever.

This was a mutual decision. People on both sides trying to make it an Irsay thing or Peyton thing need to come to terms with the fact it was a mutual decision.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Manning was already tagged. He worked out the deal to remove the tag to free up money for the Colts.

So that doesn't have anything to do with it.

[mightisright]

WOW. Some people are really suspicious! Manning went into June, July, August with NOOOOO idea that he wouldn't be able to play at all this year. He was working hard at rehab and hoping for the best. He had no idea that he'd be getting paid to stay on the bench. And so what if he was? How many times have we paid Gonzo, Sanders, Bethea, Garcon, Addai, and all the others to sit a significant portion of the season? Was Brady a waste of money when he went down for most of a season? entitlement issues, much? He'd never missed a snap until last season, but now I'm sure it's his fault the disc was bulging and the nerve wasn't regenerating. I'm sure that it's his fault he couldn't forsee that he'd need to have another surgery or that we'd suck so bad without him that we'd get the number one pick. right....

[chad72]

Manning was already tagged. He worked out the deal to remove the tag to free up money for the Colts.

So that doesn't have anything to do with it.

Ignorance is sometimes bliss one can hang on to, FJC, so let 'em hang on to it.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Ignorance is sometimes bliss one can hang on to, FJC, so let 'em hang on to it.

Bliss must be a popular name around here then.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Take it for what it's worth, but Mort just said on ESPN that Irsay told Manning on Monday that it wasn't a money decision but that Irsay felt it was the best decision for the team to move on with a new QB and it was "difficult for Manning to hear that"

[Coltsagent]

"selfcentered superstar" THAT is your conclusion? How much further can your perspective be slanted? Really? Its really easy being a historical revisionist.

[Jaric]

Perhaps this might not be the best time to post this.

[Superman]

I will always be a huge Fan of Peyton Manning, However...

Last year right before the CBA was about to be finalized we heard that 4 players including Mr. Manning we're lobbying for " Franchise Tag rights for future players". I put this in quotes as I believe Peyton had his own agenda.

Consider this: Peyton knew before anyone else how injured he actually was. Knowing this he tries to get passed a Franchise Tag stipulation so HE wouldn't be Franchise Tagged under an umbrella of future player rights. It all fell under the guise that he had been tagged previously, which I might add lasted all of a couple days.

Reason Manning really did this: Knowing what we all know now, that Manning wouldn't have played for the Colts or any other team last year, is it possible Irsay would've tagged Manning at about 17 mil instead of agreeing to the contract that Manning has currently? You bet your horse he would have. However a talk happened after the courts threw out the Franchise Tag amendment that we never heard of ( we all know it did ) where Manning told Irsay he didn't want to be Tagged, he wanted a long term deal that would retire him a Colt. No brainer right cuz Manning is all about being a Colt for life and Irsay loves him some Peyton so why wouldn't Irsay give his most prolific player what he wanted. After all Manning was all about being a Colt as he loved his team and the City, ect.. Wrong!! Manning is all about Manning. He got what HE wanted.

Let's look at his deal which came next: From August until now 54 mil upfront. 54 mil in 6 months. What?? When this deal was struck I was like Noooo!! You know why because front loaded money almost gauranteed the Colts not having any real money for real players to surround Manning for future championships while he was still here. Are you kidden me!!?/ Who signed off on this deal? Yep Irsay. Bad decision. Backended money would've been the way to go if Manning was really concerned about winning championships. Keep in mind Peyton knew he was truly injured and knew that it wasn't going to be a quick heal regardless of how much we have heard about him wanting and doing everything he could to get back on the field. I mean really what was he going to say? I just took a boatload of cash from the Colts all the while knowing I wouldn't be ready anytime soon if ever. Ha!! Yea.., yet with this contract Peyton was 100% garaunteed to get HIS MONEY!! Or as it's going to turn out 26 mil of it, where it should've only cost the Colts the tag amount. Again remember Condon and Manning formatted this contract, Irsay was just foolish to sign off on it.

Flash to now: Peyton has had every opportunity to be a complete stand up guy way before the cross talk media stuff between him and Irsay began. If Peyton really wanted to retire a Colt he would've pushed back the date just on " what's right for the Colts and the City and Fans " principles. HE DID NOT. As it wasn't right for Peyton.

It's always been about Peyton Manning and even tho I have been extremely blessed to have had a QB as great as Manning play for the team I so luv and always will it's time for the Colts to become a Team again and not a version of Manning and the Colts.

Now if Manning resigns after being released then I will eat crow as I would be wrong with my thoughts above on how I believe this all went down. However if Manning moves on then All Colts fans hear my views and be thankful not only for time spent but a brighter future to come. A future where we are united again as a team and not held hostage by an albeit great, selfcentered superstar.

Irsay I'm with you Brotha. Let's ride

Peace

You're missing it on a lot of different fronts.

1) Every player in the NFL dislikes the franchise tag, not just Manning and the four others you allude to. This isn't something that just came up last year after Manning got hurt.

2) 2011 isn't the first time Manning was tagged. The team did this in 2004, and then signed him to a long-term deal shortly thereafter. Manning stood with the union against the tag because he was the biggest name to be tagged, not because it had anything to do with him personally.

3) The idea that Manning knew in July that he wouldn't be able to play and squeezed more money out of Irsay with that knowledge ignores the fact that Manning had another, more invasive surgery after signing the contract and being medically cleared to practice with the team. There were several significant developments between the contract being done and Manning's last surgery.

4) Manning was tagged, and Irsay could have kept him at the tag for $23 million, which would have been prohibitive for the purposes of fielding a complete roster. Hindsight being 20/20, with Manning not getting back on the field in 2011 and there still being questions about his ability to play at a high level, and us going 2-14, leaving him on the tag would have been best for the team and for Manning, actually. We'd have a much easier time keeping him had we done that.

5) Manning wasn't paid $54 million between August and now. And he apparently won't be.

6) The option bonus of $28 million can't be renegotiated or pushed back, according to CBA rules.

7) The option bonus was agreed upon by Manning and Condon, and it allows Irsay to opt out of Manning's contract for any reason he chooses, whether it's because Manning can't play or because he doesn't want to pay the option bonus because it's $28 million. It hurts the cap in 2012, but it saved the team $7 million to the cap in 2011, and it cost Irsay an extra $3 million to be able to save $64 million from 2012-2015. It was in no way selfish on Manning's part, nor was Irsay duped.

8) Just in cased you missed it in the previous point, the difference between the franchise tag and the long-term contract was essentially $3 million. A relatively small amount of money.

9) The idea that the owner of an NFL franchise would simply allow a player and his agent to design the structure of a $90 million contract without making sure he got what he wanted is, frankly, foolish and devoid of logic. Irsay may play a carefree guy on Twitter, but he's a smart businessman who has made a bunch of prudent and smart decisions for himself and his team. For instance, he negotiated a very favorable lease with the city, one that the city tried to get out of a year later. To insinuate that he was had by Manning and Condon makes zero sense.

10) The date of the option bonus cannot be pushed back, per the CBA. It's very convoluted, but short answer, it can't be pushed back.

11) If the option bonus could be pushed back, it would be in Manning's best interests to push it back, as it would increase the likelihood that he'd be paid the $28 million option bonus. Thus, the idea that he's refusing to push the date back out of selfishness also fails the logic test.

12) The likely reason Manning won't resign with the Colts isn't selfishness on his part. It's because his contract carries a $10.4 million dead cap hit in 2012, making it necessary for him to agree to a relatively paltry salary in 2012 to stay with the Colts. This is the Colts cap issue, not Manning's.

13) If we were "held hostage" by Manning, consider us the luckiest hostages in hostage history.

I'm not pro Manning or pro Irsay in this situation. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. Both sides showed a willingness to yield last summer, and it just isn't working out because of the large amount of money involved on either side. It's a business, and they are making business decisions. Matter of fact, this isn't Manning's decision at this point; it's Irsay's alone. Sucks, but that's the way it goes. To try to pit the two sides against each other, or paint one side as selfish and greedy and the other as a victim is simply insane.

/rant

[LightninMax]

Your facts just don't hold water.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You're missing it on a lot of different fronts.

1) Every player in the NFL dislikes the franchise tag, not just Manning and the four others you allude to. This isn't something that just came up last year after Manning got hurt.

2) 2011 isn't the first time Manning was tagged. The team did this in 2004, and then signed him to a long-term deal shortly thereafter. Manning stood with the union against the tag because he was the biggest name to be tagged, not because it had anything to do with him personally.

3) The idea that Manning knew in July that he wouldn't be able to play and squeezed more money out of Irsay with that knowledge ignores the fact that Manning had another, more invasive surgery after signing the contract and being medically cleared to practice with the team. There were several significant developments between the contract being done and Manning's last surgery.

4) Manning was tagged, and Irsay could have kept him at the tag for $23 million, which would have been prohibitive for the purposes of fielding a complete roster. Hindsight being 20/20, with Manning not getting back on the field in 2011 and there still being questions about his ability to play at a high level, and us going 2-14, leaving him on the tag would have been best for the team and for Manning, actually. We'd have a much easier time keeping him had we done that.

5) Manning wasn't paid $54 million between August and now. And he apparently won't be.

6) The option bonus of $28 million can't be renegotiated or pushed back, according to CBA rules.

7) The option bonus was agreed upon by Manning and Condon, and it allows Irsay to opt out of Manning's contract for any reason he chooses, whether it's because Manning can't play or because he doesn't want to pay the option bonus because it's $28 million. It hurts the cap in 2012, but it saved the team $7 million to the cap in 2011, and it cost Irsay an extra $3 million to be able to save $64 million from 2012-2015. It was in no way selfish on Manning's part, nor was Irsay duped.

8) Just in cased you missed it in the previous point, the difference between the franchise tag and the long-term contract was essentially $3 million. A relatively small amount of money.

9) The idea that the owner of an NFL franchise would simply allow a player and his agent to design the structure of a $90 million contract without making sure he got what he wanted is, frankly, foolish and devoid of logic. Irsay may play a carefree guy on Twitter, but he's a smart businessman who has made a bunch of prudent and smart decisions for himself and his team. For instance, he negotiated a very favorable lease with the city, one that the city tried to get out of a year later. To insinuate that he was had by Manning and Condon makes zero sense.

10) The date of the option bonus cannot be pushed back, per the CBA. It's very convoluted, but short answer, it can't be pushed back.

11) If the option bonus could be pushed back, it would be in Manning's best interests to push it back, as it would increase the likelihood that he'd be paid the $28 million option bonus. Thus, the idea that he's refusing to push the date back out of selfishness also fails the logic test.

12) The likely reason Manning won't resign with the Colts isn't selfishness on his part. It's because his contract carries a $10.4 million dead cap hit in 2012, making it necessary for him to agree to a relatively paltry salary in 2012 to stay with the Colts. This is the Colts cap issue, not Manning's.

13) If we were "held hostage" by Manning, consider us the luckiest hostages in hostage history.

I'm not pro Manning or pro Irsay in this situation. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. Both sides showed a willingness to yield last summer, and it just isn't working out because of the large amount of money involved on either side. It's a business, and they are making business decisions. Matter of fact, this isn't Manning's decision at this point; it's Irsay's alone. Sucks, but that's the way it goes. To try to pit the two sides against each other, or paint one side as selfish and greedy and the other as a victim is simply insane.

/rant

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

[RobKBlack]

I've been a fan of this Franchise for 41 years. A Season Ticket Holder in Baltimore and regular visitor @ the Conrad-Hilton in Indy. Today, my heart got broken for the first time in 40 years. I love the Colts and I love #18 for what he has done for this team, Indianapolis, the NFL, and fans everywhere. No HATE in this message. I just feel bad and wish things were different. Go Peyton Manning and Go Colts!!

[BuildtheMonster1285]

Im not sure. Might be a stretch

[Superman]

Im not sure. Might be a stretch

[UndecidedFrog]

Why did you take pictures of me stretching?

[JTcardscolts]

Wow...no more drugs for you

[mouthofsouth]

Peyton has one of the smartest agents out there. He is also Drew Brees' agent who has just been franchise tagged and word is Brees is mad. Well, you can bet these two great players really are not into all this negotiating like Tom Condon is. He is the one who stirs the pot and advises his client what to do in these matters.

Peyton is more into football than he is business. Not saying he is not smart enough to think about and know business, but that is not his focus. He puts most of the football business part of it into the hands of his agent, I am sure.

I think you are wrong about Peyton being greedy. Watch him choose a team based on how it fits him as a player and sign a contract that is based largely on his performance.

One more thing. Why should players not be as savvy and as enthusiastic (through their agents) of protecting their business interests as the billionaire owners are? Pro football is a business, after all.

[Indeee]

To all my fellow Colts fans.. I appreciate the responses you have given on such a tough day for All of us. I must clarify that I'm not saying Manning is truly self centered in all phases, I meant when it came to our Colts I believe there could've been things Manning could've done to put us in better state of organization is all. Clearly Manning has done numerous things in the City that are heralded. One poster above mentioned hospital wings and the like. These things among many more are great gestures of the heart. And where I firmly believe Mannings heart in these matters are genuine at the end of the day on a flip side of the coin one can look at these gestures as PR Moves and Tax right offs. We all know how it works when multi-millionaire superstars whether sports figures or movie actors are involved. Good deeds do not go unrewarded in eyes of their supporters or constituents alike. Manning has had his share of being Comped and revered for these deeds and common sense tells us that. Not taking away from the gestures, just stating facts. And about the out clause before the bonus was do I will say that there are always outs in most contracts just purely out of not being able to control life as we know it.

My attempt was only trying to lend my take on what may have gone down with all this. I still strongly feel that Manning could've remained a Colt on the monitary side of things.

Manning had to know that when he signed his current deal that within the next 2 years ahead the Colts were going to possibly lose All or a good portion of his weapons. Wayne, Mathis (resigned), garcon and Jeff this year, Clark and Freeney next year amongst other colts as well. Knowing this why would he construct a deal so cap heavy in the front? That deal if would've gone to conclusion would've prevented the Colts from surrounding him with pieces to compete for chapionships. This is where my self centered comments derive from.

In any event we all love our Colts and after all the emotions calm down let's hope we can get excited about our future as I believe it is bright

[Indra]

To all my fellow Colts fans.. I appreciate the responses you have given on such a tough day for All of us. I must clarify that I'm not saying Manning is truly self centered in all phases, I meant when it came to our Colts I believe there could've been things Manning could've done to put us in better state of organization is all. Clearly Manning has done numerous things in the City that are heralded. One poster above mentioned hospital wings and the like. These things among many more are great gestures of the heart. And where I firmly believe Mannings heart in these matters are genuine at the end of the day on a flip side of the coin one can look at these gestures as PR Moves and Tax right offs. We all know how it works when multi-millionaire superstars whether sports figures or movie actors are involved. Good deeds do not go unrewarded in eyes of their supporters or constituents alike. Manning has had his share of being Comped and revered for these deeds and common sense tells us that. Not taking away from the gestures, just stating facts. And about the out clause before the bonus was do I will say that there are always outs in most contracts just purely out of not being able to control life as we know it.

My attempt was only trying to lend my take on what may have gone down with all this. I still strongly feel that Manning could've remained a Colt on the monitary side of things.

Manning had to know that when he signed his current deal that within the next 2 years ahead the Colts were going to possibly lose All or a good portion of his weapons. Wayne, Mathis (resigned), garcon and Jeff this year, Clark and Freeney next year amongst other colts as well. Knowing this why would he construct a deal so cap heavy in the front? That deal if would've gone to conclusion would've prevented the Colts from surrounding him with pieces to compete for chapionships. This is where my self centered comments derive from.

In any event we all love our Colts and after all the emotions calm down let's hope we can get excited about our future as I believe it is bright

Stating that Manning made donations to stroke his own ego and for "Tax right offs [sic]" is definitely trying to take something away from his generosity, and certainly not "just stating facts" like you claim. Stop spouting things off that make people look bad when you have no indication or inkling that it's in the least bit true.

[Indeee]

Stating that Manning made donations to stroke his own ego and for "Tax right offs [sic]" is definitely trying to take something away from his generosity, and certainly not "just stating facts" like you claim. Stop spouting things off that make people look bad when you have no indication or inkling that it's in the least bit true.

If you actually read what I said you would've read that I stated that in Mannings case it was genorosity of the heart for what he did. However you know just as I do that it is not always the case. PR moves and Tax right offs are a fact of life. To me your comment was to stoke a fire where it is not needed. My opinions may be unpopular and off base to alot of people including yourself which is perfectly fine, however I live on this planet and on this planet moves of genorosity as viewed through the public eye are often decorated with admiration where as real things like tax right offs and PR moves are overlooked or forgotten.

Again I do believe Peyton is extremely generous in many cases.

[chad72]

I meant when it came to our Colts I believe there could've been things Manning could've done to put us in better state of organization is all.

My attempt was only trying to lend my take on what may have gone down with all this. I still strongly feel that Manning could've remained a Colt on the monitary side of things.

Manning had to know that when he signed his current deal that within the next 2 years ahead the Colts were going to possibly lose All or a good portion of his weapons. Wayne, Mathis (resigned), garcon and Jeff this year, Clark and Freeney next year amongst other colts as well. Knowing this why would he construct a deal so cap heavy in the front? That deal if would've gone to conclusion would've prevented the Colts from surrounding him with pieces to compete for chapionships. This is where my self centered comments derive from.

In any event we all love our Colts and after all the emotions calm down let's hope we can get excited about our future as I believe it is bright

A player's job is to play to the best of his abilities, earn his paycheck and provide a reasonable deal for his team. Peyton could have demanded more than what Brady got the previous year, 4 yrs. at $72 mil. but he did realize that the team needed to re-sign his best blocking RB Addai, DT Antonio Johnson, SS Melvin Bullitt and did take less than what he could have gotten and thus we were able to re-sign those. A lot of people were on the airwaves, including Colts haters like Skip Bayless, that did agree that they were surprised that Peyton did not demand more. Unfortunately, it is supply and demand. None of us can comprehend a market value for QBs or baseball players, it is what it is.

Free agents like Wayne, Mathis etc. - that is a GM's job to manage the cap and contracts, not the player's. It happens with every freaking team. Brees and the Saints are going through that right now, so does that mean Brees plays for pennies? That is the nature of the NFL business, no guaranteed contracts. Here today, could be done tomorrow. Missing on early draft picks by the Polians and not playing enough free agency resulted in not having players to replace the ones we could have replaced (if Donald Brown showed earlier what he was capable of, if Jerry Hughes played well, if Tony Ugoh played well) and all of those have resulted in this cap he-ll. So, keep blaming Peyton for everything, like some folks blame Bush or Obama for everything, or some folks here blaming Irsay as well.

Irsay made the right decision, a hard one but the right one for the franchise. It just was not the right one for Peyton and a lot of us fans. So, instead of fans taking extreme stances, lets try to talk something that makes sense at this time instead of incessant finger pointing. The day after a playoff loss is the closest that comes to this state of the forum right now.

[Superman]

Why did you take pictures of me stretching?

I didn't. I'm a reporter, you know. They were on my desk when I came back from the bathroom. Anonymous source.