More pieces to the puzzle

[Yoshinator]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't have to be pro Chuck at all.

His record speaks for itself.

Any coach that consistently makes the playoffs has a similar record as Chuck Pagano, if you are using that to argue he's good. The only thing that matters is he's winless against the Patriots and Steelers with Andrew Luck as QB since he's been the coach and we will never reach the SB without beating at least one of them. Oh, and the Raiders are a new threat as well who he struggled against until Carr got hurt.

[loudnproudcolt]

I personally believe Dave Toub will be the head coach. I was not sold on a special teams coach until I read a couple of articles on Toub. In addition, when you look at what the special teams coach has to deal with, on both sides of the ball, when you have one who excels, they should be as good of a candidate to run a team as any good OC or DC. Tomlin and Harbaugh were both ST Coordinators before being head coach. I don't put a lot of stock into Jason LaCanfora as a writer, but he does do a good job outlining why special teams coaches are prepared to coach, and what a lot of people around the league think about Toub. If we don't hire him, someone else is going to give him a shot. The title of the article is a little deceiving, since it is mostly about Toub, and what he will bring to a team. I don't think Ballard has any problem breaking with convention, and he knows how good Toub is!

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-12-best-nfl-coaching-candidates-and-the-one-that-teams-are-too-scared-to-hire/

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, loudnproudcolt said:

I personally believe Dave Toub will be the head coach. I was not sold on a special teams coach until I read a couple of articles on Toub. In addition, when you look at what the special teams coach has to deal with, on both sides of the ball, when you have one who excels, they should be as good of a candidate to run a team as any good OC or DC. Tomlin and Harbaugh were both ST Coordinators before being head coach. I don't put a lot of stock into Jason LaCanfora as a writer, but he does do a good job outlining why special teams coaches are prepared to coach, and what a lot of people around the league think about Toub. If we don't hire him, someone else is going to give him a shot. The title of the article is a little deceiving, since it is mostly about Toub, and what he will bring to a team. I don't think Ballard has any problem breaking with convention, and he knows how good Toub is!

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-12-best-nfl-coaching-candidates-and-the-one-that-teams-are-too-scared-to-hire/

There's definitely familiarity with Ballard and Toub. All I know is Pagano isn't going to lead us to a SB win. People argue he is average and we could do worse. I'm willing to risk that. It won't get better than average with Pagano. He's peaked. I wouldn't mind a bit of struggles with a new coach if we come out smelling like roses in the end. Toub may be the guy to get the job done.

[Yoshinator]

9 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And you are so pro chuck we could go winless and you'd want to give him an extension 

He's not pro chuck necessarily, he's just so pro-colts that he gets very defensive if you dare question anyone or anything involved with the organization. He likes Pagano, he still likes Grigson and defends him, he attacks people who rightfully point out faults of players (like Phillip Dorsett and I think I've seen TJ Green). Not sure how he feels about Ballard, but I guarantee if Pagano does get fired and a new coach gets hired, he'll act the same way towards the new coach because he's a Colt, but he'll defend Pagano to the ends of the Earth still because he WAS a Colt. Anyone who has been a Colt or becomes one has his loyalty forever, right or wrong. It's just the way he is. He's an old school, casual, fanatic.

[Tracy Denton]

Bring back Jim Mora !!!

[tfunky14]

17 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

[tfunky14]

Pagano is the Colts coach as of now. To speculate or look for next year's coach before the season even starts is ludicrous. 

 

I guess some people have nothing else to do but to bring up old topics but just rename the title.  smh

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, ManningGM said:

Speaks for what? Mediocrity?

 

Go from 11-5 to consecutive 8-8 seasons, brehs.

One season without Luck and forced to use 5 different QBs and another season without a defense or running game.

Of course things like that makes no difference to someone who refuses to see why there was two 8-8 seasons.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Any coach that consistently makes the playoffs has a similar record as Chuck Pagano, if you are using that to argue he's good. The only thing that matters is he's winless against the Patriots and Steelers with Andrew Luck as QB since he's been the coach and we will never reach the SB without beating at least one of them. Oh, and the Raiders are a new threat as well who he struggled against until Carr got hurt.

So would you like me to make a list of teams In the NFL that don't have wins against the Patriots or the Steelers?

Pagano has to have the players to gets wins against either of those teams. Luck can't do it by himself.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

So would you like me to make a list of teams In the NFL that don't have wins against the Patriots or the Steelers?

Pagano has to have the players to gets wins against either of those teams. Luck can't do it by himself.

You can name all the teams you like, it doesn't matter. What matters is we won't sniff the SB until we can beat them, and Pagano and Luck have failed to beat either 5 years straight. A better question should be, why should I trust them now to beat them, or the Raiders even for that matter? 

[a06cc]

11 hours ago, ManningGM said:

Pagano is gone regardless of the record. He is simply not a coach that can take this team to the promiselands.

So I take it that your Chris Ballard? You don't know for sure what's going to happen. I'm not say he'll stay for sure. You just can't say that though. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You can name all the teams you like, it doesn't matter. What matters is we won't sniff the SB until we can beat them, and Pagano and Luck have failed to beat either 5 years straight. A better question should be, why should I trust them now to beat them, or the Raiders even for that matter? 

In all fairness, you state the bolded.  It takes more than two to win in the NFL.  I get what you're saying, but your argument is flawed in that respect.  With your argument we could just swap out Luck for a better QB, but you'd still have the same results in my opinion.

 

We require better personnel on both sides of the ball to really assess what Chuck can do.  He's a defensive specialist and now has many toys to players with.  Let's just wait to see how this season shakes out before we fire him.

[Yoshinator]

4 hours ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

In all fairness, you state the bolded.  It takes more than two to win in the NFL.  I get what you're saying, but your argument is flawed in that respect.  With your argument we could just swap out Luck for a better QB, but you'd still have the same results in my opinion.

 

We require better personnel on both sides of the ball to really assess what Chuck can do.  He's a defensive specialist and now has many toys to players with.  Let's just wait to see how this season shakes out before we fire him.

Maybe, but the Coach and QB are the two most single important parts of a team individually. Chuck isn't getting the most out of his players (obviously), and Luck isn't doing anything that will get us past NE or Pitt either. In fact, the Raiders are a bad matchup as well now, so the road just got tougher. Luck was hyped as the next John Elway, and 5 years in, he hasn't beat the Patriots or Steelers once, he has regressed, and until I see Pagano get fired, I don't believe we have a chance to win the SB unless you can give me a valid one.

[superrep1967]

On 5/14/2017 at 2:52 PM, stitches said:

Think big! Luck secured us the most desired young GM candidate in the league. There is zero reason for us to not get some of the premier head coaching candidates lining up to coach this team too. Don't settle for second stringers. Don't settle for bottom of the barrell. Think the best of the best.

 

Will Harbaugh be ready? It's just a thought. 

[richard pallo]

28 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Maybe, but the Coach and QB are the two most single important parts of a team individually. Chuck isn't getting the most out of his players (obviously), and Luck isn't doing anything that will get us past NE or Pitt either. In fact, the Raiders are a bad matchup as well now, so the road just got tougher. Luck was hyped as the next John Elway, and 5 years in, he hasn't beat the Patriots or Steelers once, he has regressed, and until I see Pagano get fired, I don't believe we have a chance to win the SB unless you can give me a valid one.

You're wrong again.  Chuck has gotten more out of his players than the vast majority of the coaches in the league. A weak defense and an injured QB for a huge portion of the past two seasons and the players never give up and manage to have back to back 8-8 seasons.  Hard to believe really.   NE and Pitt have to deal with aging QB's that are at the end of their careers.  Ben talked about retiring this year so he is already thinking about it.  Brady can talk all he wants but you can't fool mother nature.  His end will probably come suddenly.  The future power teams in the AFC will actually be the Colts, Titans and Raiders.  All three with ascending QB's.  Ballard will fix our defense and Chuck and the rest of his coaches will get it done.  I, for one, am looking forward to the season and what might be accomplished.  I feel sorry for the haters actually.  The season hasn't even started and they are already assuming defeat.  Probably even wishing for it and not caring about the huge effort the players and coaches are putting forth for the team and it's fans.  What a sad way to watch a season. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

You're wrong again.  Chuck has gotten more out of his players than the vast majority of the coaches in the league. A weak defense and an injured QB for a huge portion of the past two seasons and the players never give up and manage to have back to back 8-8 seasons.  Hard to believe really.   NE and Pitt have to deal with aging QB's that are at the end of their careers.  Ben talked about retiring this year so he is already thinking about it.  Brady can talk all he wants but you can't fool mother nature.  His end will probably come suddenly.  The future power teams in the AFC will actually be the Colts, Titans and Raiders.  All three with ascending QB's.  Ballard will fix our defense and Chuck and the rest of his coaches will get it done.  I, for one, am looking forward to the season and what might be accomplished.  I feel sorry for the haters actually.  The season hasn't even started and they are already assuming defeat.  Probably even wishing for it and not caring about the huge effort the players and coaches are putting forth for the team and it's fans.  What a sad way to watch a season. 

You have no idea what you're talking about, like usual. Luck was hurt one game last year. Chuck gets the offense off to slow starts in almost every game. 11 out of 16 games last year we scored 3 or less points in the first quarter. Chuck is a fraud as a coach. He's nothing more than a defensive coordinator. Ben and Brady will still play for a few more years, and Carr will be a huge threat on the Raiders as well. I guess we're supposed to wait until Brady and Ben retire before we have a chance then? Haters? This team isn't worthy of being hated. They can't even win the division. We are irrelevant. Teams are PRAYING they face us in the playoffs. We can hope all we want, but until Pagano is gone, there's a fine line between your fantasy and reality, no matter how you try and spin it. Maybe we win the division, but I won't believe we beat the Pats, Steelers or Raiders til it happens. Pagano has burned his bridges with me.

[Coltfreak]

20 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Even Belichick said it wasn't a bad play or formation. It was executed bad.

Of course when you high jack every thread with your never ending whine fest of Pagano you wouldn't accept that.

With this post we can all see you cannot be reasoned with.    This is just stupid. Of course Belichick liked the play.  Every person in NE liked the play.    

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

With this post we can all see you cannot be reasoned with.    This is just stupid. Of course Belichick liked the play.  Every person in NE liked the play.    

I guess your memory is lacking or you refuse to take Belichick at his word.

The play was explained very clearly by more than one Colt player including Patty Mac.

That don't fit your whine fest so just move on with your natural self while Chuck is still the head coach of the Colts. Must be sad to be so possessed against someone but nothing has changed.

[Coltfreak]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess your memory is lacking or you refuse to take Belichick at his word.

The play was explained very clearly by more than one Colt player including Patty Mac.

That don't fit your whine fest so just move on with your natural self while Chuck is still the head coach of the Colts. Must be sad to be so possessed against someone but nothing has changed.

Chuck is that you?

[Peterk2011]

On 2017. 05. 16. at 3:36 AM, Coltfreak said:

With this post we can all see you cannot be reasoned with.    This is just stupid. Of course Belichick liked the play.  Every person in NE liked the play.    

 

If you judge a coach by some marquee busted plays, you are on a wrong path .... even if you are right that it was Pagano's fault. What about Carroll and his call in SB49? What about Shanahan and the 3 minutes of SB51? What about Belichick and the 4&2? 

 

Btw, beating the Patriots. Name one HC who had success agains the Belichick & Brady corp, not named Coughlin and Manning? Jim Harbaugh had some partial success, He has 3-6 record against them. Two of those wins coming in 2012, when they won superbowl 46. Someone mentioned the Steelers. Well, how successfull Mike Tomlin is against Belichick? I tell you. He's 2-7. He won one game against the Matt Cassell Patriots in 2008, and one in 2011 at home, in the regular season. In that season they had a great team, finished 12-4, just to loose in the divisional round in Denver against Tim Tebow. Tomlin has'nt won a single game since 2011, and his seat is rock solid in Pittsburgh. Both team's - Raven's 2012 and Steelers's 2011 - roster were far superior than the Colts roster ever were during Pagano's tenure. Far superior. Actually, those two - Harbaugh and Tomlin - lost many games with better rosters than any of Pagano's. 

 

I am not saying, Pagano should stay. Heck, he might have a role in not being able to build a capable roster here, who knows. I don't. I am just saying, it's a wrong starting point to evaluate a coach based on some marquee play's, even if it's his fault. And also, a wrong starting point to evaluate a coach based on success against the Patriots. Because, then you will not find a single coach worth to sign.

 

Pagano is a good coach, his record speak for itself. He's done better job with inferior roster, than 2/3 of the NFL coaches did. Look what Sean Payton has achieved. He had Drew Brees all along, and he had 2, maybe 3 good years in New Orleans in ten plus years. The rest is a meh.... And Payton is an above average coach. It takes more than two to win in the NFL. 

 

So, if Ballard is in to replace Pagano, I hope he'll find someone better than him. Not just anyone, but better. Which means, better than the majority of NFL coaches. It won't be an easy task, Actually, it will be a bit of a gamble, so I hope along with his knowledge, Ballard will also have Fortune on his side, when he'll pull the trigger. 

 

 

[Coltfreak]

5 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

If you judge a coach by some marquee busted plays, you are on a wrong path .... even if you are right that it was Pagano's fault. What about Carroll and his call in SB49? What about Shanahan and the 3 minutes of SB51? What about Belichick and the 4&2? 

 

Btw, beating the Patriots. Name one HC who had success agains the Belichick & Brady corp, not named Coughlin and Manning? Jim Harbaugh had some partial success, He has 3-6 record against them. Two of those wins coming in 2012, when they won superbowl 46. Someone mentioned the Steelers. Well, how successfull Mike Tomlin is against Belichick? I tell you. He's 2-7. He won one game against the Matt Cassell Patriots in 2008, and one in 2011 at home, in the regular season. In that season they had a great team, finished 12-4, just to loose in the divisional round in Denver against Tim Tebow. Tomlin has'nt won a single game since 2011, and his seat is rock solid in Pittsburgh. Both team's - Raven's 2012 and Steelers's 2011 - roster were far superior than the Colts roster ever were during Pagano's tenure. Far superior. Actually, those two - Harbaugh and Tomlin - lost many games with better rosters than any of Pagano's. 

 

I am not saying, Pagano should stay. Heck, he might have a role in not being able to build a capable roster here, who knows. I don't. I am just saying, it's a wrong starting point to evaluate a coach based on some marquee play's, even if it's his fault. And also, a wrong starting point to evaluate a coach based on success against the Patriots. Because, then you will not find a single coach worth to sign.

 

Pagano is a good coach, his record speak for itself. He's done better job with inferior roster, than 2/3 of the NFL coaches did. Look what Sean Payton has achieved. He had Drew Brees all along, and he had 2, maybe 3 good years in New Orleans in ten plus years. The rest is a meh.... And Payton is an above average coach. It takes more than two to win in the NFL. 

 

So, if Ballard is in to replace Pagano, I hope he'll find someone better than him. Not just anyone, but better. Which means, better than the majority of NFL coaches. It won't be an easy task, Actually, it will be a bit of a gamble, so I hope along with his knowledge, Ballard will also have Fortune on his side, when he'll pull the trigger. 

 

 

Not judging on one play...  Total body of work.