Now We Need A Great Oc

[Jason_]

Cam Cameron's contract is up in Baltimore. Maybe Chuck talks him into coming and running the offense here. I'd be all for that. Didn't the Colts interview the Saints' OL coach for the HC position? Maybe he's a candidate to consider for the OC job.

[TheNextGM]

_{I'm guessing it is Hue Jackson. I read (I think on ESPN) that he and Pags are connected and Hue has had a good run with QB's.}

[Rybono]

So thrilled with Pagano as hc!!! Now on to some UNFINISHED business with Clyde still on as oc. One of the last NEXT man up frauds who INHERITED Tom Moore's system, Peyton and the playbook. While Peyton was playing, it was hard to gauge Clyde's OWN abilities or lack of. When the GOAT went down Clyde was exposed BIG time. The playcalling was AWFUL (run up the middle 1st down, repeat same on 2nd, JAILBREAK on 3rd) and the offense couldn't generate ANYTHING! Stat wise it ranked near the bottom or dead last in most categories. The backup qbs looked terrible with Dan being the exception toward the end. Some say KEEP Clyde because Peyton is comfortable with him and wouldn't have to learn a new offense but that's the nfl. Peyton became spoiled by having Tom all those years and IF the Colts cut ties with the GOAT he would HAVE to learn a new system anyway. So like Caldwell who brought nothing to the table on his own Clyde needs to be upgraded also. Amazing how ONE man could CARRY so many on his back.

It's really hard and annoying to READ your POSTS when they ALL LOOK like THIS.

On topic though: How can you say CC was exposed when Peyton left? Caldwell for example wasn't fired for what happen this year alone. He was fired for many inconsistencies since 2009. Now, knowing that, please show me evidence CC was a bad OC or made major mistakes in 2009 and 2010. The whole reason our offense was terrible is because Peyton was not playing. CC had Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter to work with half the year?! CC even made Curtis look like he knew what he was doing for 3 games. Once a serviceable QB came in, our offense started to look really good. Too bad the decision to start Dan was way to late, and I can tell you that wasn't CC's fault.

IF the Colts cut ties with the GOAT he would HAVE to learn a new system anyway.

If keeping CC is a strong reason Peyton would stay in town, wouldn't we want to keep CC?! What if the difference between keeping CC and not keeping CC, isn't that he goes to a new team, but that he calls it quits all together. Obviously if CC was a terrible OC Grigson would have gotten rid of him with the rest.

[Crasher_Roth]

I'd be all for Hue Jackson, he made Carson Palmer look like a good QB at times last year, and thats after missing all of training camp and half the season, and before that Jason Campbell was looking really impressive in his system, so I have no doubts that he can work with whoever our young QB will be, and they have worked together before in Oakland.

Another name I wouldn't mind seeing is Todd Haley, in Arizona he lead a career revival for Kurt Warner, and during his time there he had one of the best offenses. In Indy the offense would be somewhat similar to his in Arizona, with a good QB and two solid WR's (hopefully Wayne and Garcon), what concerns me with him however, is his young QB's never showed much promise under him (ie Matt Cassel, Matt Lienart), and I'm not sure how his in your face mentality would fit in with this young team, as that kind of fizzled out with his younger team in KC.

[hawkeyes]

Cam Cameron's contract is up in Baltimore. Maybe Chuck talks him into coming and running the offense here. I'd be all for that. Didn't the Colts interview the Saints' OL coach for the HC position? Maybe he's a candidate to consider for the OC job.

Ravens fans could not stand the guy, that tells me we don't want him here!

[rockywoj]

Pretending I am Jim Irsay, CC stays because I have the expectation that Manning will be healthy, in which case, the Manning offense continues, but tweaked under the guidance of new management and coaching to more effectively rely upon a reborn running attack. If Manning is not healthy, he is transitioned into the OC role, thus becoming a key member of Colts management.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I very much appreciate the self-control demonstrated in your use of the phrase "higher if he's on the roster" regarding Painter, without the addition of any sarcasm or commentary. That must have been difficult for you.

It wasn't that hard at all.. I went with the lower # because I fully expect him to be released and the only slim chance he's retained would be if they wanted to go with Luck, Painter and a QB3.

does luck's first year bonus count towards the cap?

1/4th of it would be.

The $15 mill is a guesstimate of his signing bonus based on how much Newton got.

Newton actually got a $14.52 million dollar bonus, and total contract of $22.03 million over four years. Lucks would obviously reflect some modest increase over that - firejimcaldwell says 5%, but I have no idea if that is accurate or just a guess.

Of course all bonuses count toward the cap, but they are prorated over the life of the contract.

IE: Newton got $14.52 up front. His cap hit last year was therefore $3.63 million (14.52 divided by four) plus his regular salary (which is obviously fairly modest - with only $7.51 million left to be paid over the four years. Poor guy. :rolleyes: )

Here is a breakdown of Newton's contract.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cam-newton/

The 5% # is a guess, but it is inline with what guys like Andrew Brandt, Peter King, and others have suggested, that the increase will be. I could see it easily there being a 3-5% increase. I would be really surprised if it was the same or lower than Newton's #'s.

[chrisfarley]

be careful what you wish for as far as wanting manning gone. he could be torching us for years to come (NYJ), etc. I think we need to be careful about this. He is dangerous with the right weopons.

[IndyTrav]

Cam Cameron's contract is up in Baltimore. Maybe Chuck talks him into coming and running the offense here. I'd be all for that. Didn't the Colts interview the Saints' OL coach for the HC position? Maybe he's a candidate to consider for the OC job.

Both Donald Brown and Bill Polian would LOVE this. Cam Cameron is a RB guru. Any RB he touches turns to gold. He just knows how to use them. Brown would put up respectable #'s making his selecion in the 1st seem justified.

As a team, I don't know how it would work though.

[Quantum88]

be careful what you wish for as far as wanting manning gone. he could be torching us for years to come (NYJ), etc. I think we need to be careful about this. He is dangerous with the right weopons.

Can you even imagine what this board would be like if Peyton torched us in the playoffs and then went on to win the Super Bowl?

[bluephantom87]

It's really hard and annoying to READ your POSTS when they ALL LOOK like THIS.

On topic though: How can you say CC was exposed when Peyton left? Caldwell for example wasn't fired for what happen this year alone. He was fired for many inconsistencies since 2009. Now, knowing that, please show me evidence CC was a bad OC or made major mistakes in 2009 and 2010. The whole reason our offense was terrible is because Peyton was not playing. CC had Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter to work with half the year?! CC even made Curtis look like he knew what he was doing for 3 games. Once a serviceable QB came in, our offense started to look really good. Too bad the decision to start Dan was way to late, and I can tell you that wasn't CC's fault.

If keeping CC is a strong reason Peyton would stay in town, wouldn't we want to keep CC?! What if the difference between keeping CC and not keeping CC, isn't that he goes to a new team, but that he calls it quits all together. Obviously if CC was a terrible OC Grigson would have gotten rid of him with the rest.

Ok...Let me begin by saying IF you don't like the way I post, then PLEASE bypass. I'm not you and you're not me! Now on to some football talk. The TOPIC was about the Colts needing a great oc so obviously I'm not the only one who feels Clyde can be upgraded. You actually made my point for me. What has Clyde done on his own WITHOUT Peyton beside simply being the next man up on a system that was already in place. Peyton RAN the offense period. Mind you Brady was lost game one and the oc ADJUSTED on the fly. The offense didn't fall off a cliff or look totally inept without him. I can point out examples of teams losing their qbs short or long term and the oc ADJUSTED. Big Ben's suspension, Flynn for Rogers when hurt last or resting this year. Who was Kurt Warner? Who was in charge of developing Curtis for three years? The numbers don't lie. Clyde's playcalling and lack of creativity (run up the middle first two downs jailbreak on 3rd) is who HE is. This team STILL had Reggie,Dallas,Collie,Garcon,Joe,Donald and Saturday on offense UNLIKE the other teams that were at the bottom of offensive stats like the Colts.

[hoosiercoltsfan82]

They wont get a new OC as long as Manning is around.

I completely disagree. I seriously doubt that Manning is factoring into any of these "rebuilding" decisions. Why? Because Manning is not a part of the long term rebuilding plans. How could he be, he'll be 36 at the start of next season, if he comes back.

[GoColts8818]

I don't understand, why is the number 1 slotted at $15 million for 2012? He is almost making as much as Brady and Manning. Unless those analysts read it wrong, and he'll make $15 million total contract. That would make more sense.

That's his "real" money not his cap hit. Mannings real money is something like 35 mil for example next season. As has been pointed out to me in other threads real money does not equal cap hit.

[Case]

be careful what you wish for as far as wanting manning gone. he could be torching us for years to come (NYJ), etc. I think we need to be careful about this. He is dangerous with the right weopons.

He did it once in his prime what makes u think 6 years later and 3 neck surgeries later he will win another one with a diff team and diff playbook.

[mvbighead]

I know you think this is harsh, but thats why Manning needs to go. He is only delaying our rebuilding which is inevitable. We will not win a Superbowl with 40 plus million dollars invested in our QB position.

I find this to be laughable at best.

For 13 seasons, Manning has carried this team on his back. We've had crappy defenses, and it just did not matter.

If Manning returns healthy, (which all reports indicate he hasn't been for 2-3 seasons), and if Pagano even marginally improves the defense (which I assume he will), this team could be back in the playoffs and SB hunt THIS season. That's how good Manning is. The issue the FO has to face is if Manning is $28 million good and healthy.

My guess says no. I think Manning will make a full recovery and play in the league again, I just don't think Irsay will write that check when at best all they can say is he is healed. Who is to say that some fluke hit may aggravate the nerve again and set him back 4-6 weeks. No one knows really.

And, you take the money you don't spend on Manning and bring in quality players to put around luck. Most likely "prove it" contracts of the 1-2 year variety for guys who need a shot at a starting position. There are guys like this out there that are hiding behind superstars at their position. Heck, with the abundance of CB in Phily, where our GM came from, we might be able to snag Asante Samuel for fair sum. Just food for thought really. But with a larger budget (due to the loss of Manning) they might actually be able to improve our defense and give Luck the ball more often.

[GoColts00]

I think we should get Hue Jackson as an OC, but it depends on if Peyton comes back or not. If Peyton does come back, let CC continue as the OC b/c he's familiar with the playbook and how Peyton plays. Hue Jackson could be the Asst. OC in this scenario. If Peyton does not come back, then start fresh with Hue as the OC and Luck as the QB so they can be comfortable with how each other thinks.

[Rybono]

Ok...Let me begin by saying IF you don't like the way I post, then PLEASE bypass. I'm not you and you're not me!

Okay!

You actually made my point for me. What has Clyde done on his own WITHOUT Peyton beside simply being the next man up on a system that was already in place. Peyton RAN the offense period. Mind you Brady was lost game one and the oc ADJUSTED on the fly. The offense didn't fall off a cliff or look totally inept without him. I can point out examples of teams losing their qbs short or long term and the oc ADJUSTED.

I can name a rather obvious team this year that flopped because their starting quarter back went down. The Bears. Now, I'm not saying he had nothing to do with it, but what I am saying is that to go from arguably the GOAT in Manning to Curtis Painter is such a huge drop talent wise that the blame shifts from QB coaches and Offensive Coordinators straight on to the shoulders of Bill and Chris Polian. This is why Bill and Chris were ultimately fired. Because they didn't have an adequate back up with the same caliber as these other big teams.

Big Ben's suspension, Flynn for Rogers when hurt last or resting this year. Who was Kurt Warner?

Again, these reasons right here aren't CC's fault, these are Bill and Chris's fault, and the reason they were fired and not CC. Give CC a backup that actually has some tallent and you can see what our offense can do, I.E. Dan Orlovsky.

Who was in charge of developing Curtis for three years?

The Quarterback coach among others, and that's why he was also fired. But not only that, these players are professionals, and are partially responsible for their own development.

The numbers don't lie. Clyde's playcalling and lack of creativity (run up the middle first two downs jailbreak on 3rd) is who HE is.

Please show me what numbers you are speaking of. If you do want to compare numbers, you should compare to when Kerry Collins was QB/Painter/ and then Orlovsky.