Brady Quinn And Andrew Luck

[JTcardscolts]

Just thought I would bring this up for a friendly debate.

Physically And athletically these guys are identical, College stats very simular(at least their last season), both ran a pro-style offense in college, and both colleges are known to be run oriented, and known for their o-line. Even their schools they went to are simular in the fact they are both "prestigious" universties academically. So neither one of them were slouches when it came to class time.

Coming out of college Quinn too was highly talked about as being a NFL ready quarterback is rookie season, coming from Wiess pro-style offense. And the only reason he was taken 1 overall was because of Russells raw and "rare" potential to be a big time QB with his big time arm(side note, the "experts" blew this dude way up, it was ridiculous). Also the fins were to take him at 3 but decided they couldn't pass up Ted Qinn athletic ability(this was when Hester was doing his thing and everyone thought they need a sick return guy to be successful), Cleveland passed cause of Joe Thomas was still on the bored and without a o-line your franchise QB is useless, they were gonna trade up but soon realized no other team had that need and waited till 22 to get him. And when they did make the pick the next day that's all everyone talked about is how the browns had a A+ draft and will be back on the map in a couple years. Didn't work out will for them or Quinn did it( I too was on Quinn band wagon), following year Derek Anderson(6th rounder) gets the job from Frye and, the "experts" quickly proclaim him the new browns franchise QB(just like they did with Freeman from Tampa this year), and Quinn, the NFL ready prospect is now and has been a NFL back up QB. As for the raiders who took Russell 1 overall, well they passed on players like, "megatron", Adrian Peterson, Okoye, Patrick Willis, Lamar woodley, Ryan kalil, revis, Sidney Rice, And Jon beason. Could you imagine if they traded down and would of got a few of these guys on the same team?

So am I saying Luck is the next Quinn?

No that would be doing a diservices to him.

I'm simply saying the draft can be hit or miss, and some of these so-called experts are just like us they watch a player and come to a conclusion, which could be biased. Go head and say but theyve been doing it for years tho, and played. I bet there's an old timer reading this right now that's been watching football longer then some of us have been alive, no one his calling him an expert, heck I played college ball and I am far from an expert, but would bet my bank account I could pick a better draft then "some" of these so-called analyst and experts. So yea they get paid to do it, true. But I can guarantee all of these experts have been wrong on many occasions and have costed a lot of teams a lot of money because they said this guys should be drafted at this spot. But where I work if u cost your company money you don't get to keep your job.

So I'll ask u again if we draft this guy and release Peyton, and he turns out to be a bust. Where does this franchise go from there?

IMO this would be devastating and would put us with the bottom feeders of the NFL withthe likes ofthe browns, raiders, lions(I kno theyre doing better), and bills(then too). Lets face it guys It's not like were flashy franchise people. If we get in a bidding war over a player why would they want to come here? The year round nice weather, all the hot babes in swimsuits, all the celebs walking around. No, it's cause we win and if Luck turns out to be a bust and no Peyton we become the laughing stock of the NFL. And just like how everyone is talking about taking Luck, everyone will be talking about how the release/trade of Peyton was the worst in NFL history.

[storm1580]

Excellent post!

[Dan]

Don't worry, we'll only release Peyton if he's unfit. We won't have a choice in the matter so if it ends up that Luck is crap then we'll not feel like * because we would have had no other choice.

One thing I'll point out is that Quinn's stock dropped a fair bit (for whatever reason) coming into the draft. If the same thing happens with Luck then alarm bells should be ringing.

[JTcardscolts]

Don't worry, we'll only release Peyton if he's unfit. We won't have a choice in the matter so if it ends up that Luck is crap then we'll not feel like * because we would have had no other choice.

One thing I'll point out is that Quinn's stock dropped a fair bit (for whatever reason) coming into the draft. If the same thing happens with Luck then alarm bells should be ringing.

I believe it was Russells rise(per media) more then it was quinns doing, that caused the slide in the draft. I believe he had a good combine showing. I recall this really well cause they were talking about the 2 QBs and which one was better, before their bowl game, Brady had the edge cause JR was said to be too raw with only one good season under his belt. Then came the bowl game which JR had a good game and again here comes the experts, saying he can make all the throws, even the ones the pros cant make. It was something like this, Russells combination of arm strength, size and athleticism has all the scouts drooling. And for Quinn it was, while Quinn isnt the best athlete he does have the capability to get out the pocket and make throws. The funny thing is Quinn was twice the athlete Russell was, Quinn ran 4.74 40 , Russell ran a 4.85(some reports 5.0) 40 and not to mention Quinn was way more elusive then Russell but it's kind of funny how the media word things differently.

[indianapoliscolts]

Sources say Irsay's taking Luck with the first pick.

[JTcardscolts]

Sources say Irsay's taking Luck with the first pick.

looks like that's what theyre saying, however this could be him playing his cards tryin to get everything he can out of the draft pick. Either way my fingers will be crossed.

[tfrugal]

ok, what about this, if you can take at face value polians assertion that both luck and rgIII are cant miss--

what about a draft gambit to trade back yet still get RGIII?

the vikes and rams are not in for a qb,

doesnt cleveland have 4 and like 22?

they want to get luck, we swap 1 for both of those, get mannings replacement, a real backup, maybe even a wildcat wrinkle next year PLUS 22.

rg needs some time to lean an nfl offense, so he and manning can get a lot closer to pulling a greenbay style transition. irsay stays loyal to his guy and transitions with a multi-year plan (as he likes to do).

use the 22 for whoever drops. or that safety...

i would suppose a good draft extorter would get more pix in the mix too....

[Blue Horseshoe]

I am so sick of the hype about this guy that I can't stand it. I guarantee without equivocation that there are going to be an awful lot of disappointed people when, even if the man plays reasonably well, he fails to live up to it.

[Case]

I am so sick of the hype about this guy that I can't stand it. I guarantee without equivocation that there are going to be an awful lot of disappointed people when, even if the man plays reasonably well, he fails to live up to it.

Your just a really big PM fan and u dont want to see your fav player let go which I understand. Your telling yourself luck will be a bust so you don't have to face it that maybe the colts actually will move on. There were just as many people if not more saying PM had peaked that we wouldn't be a franchise qb and so on. This is a rare prospect that you have to consider. 2-4 years of an aging qb or 15 years of a younger qb will amazing potential but some risk

[JTcardscolts]

Your just a really big PM fan and u dont want to see your fav player let go which I understand. Your telling yourself luck will be a bust so you don't have to face it that maybe the colts actually will move on. There were just as many people if not more saying PM had peaked that we wouldn't be a franchise qb and so on. This is a rare prospect that you have to consider. 2-4 years of an aging qb or 15 years of a younger qb will amazing potential but some risk

I understand where ur coming from and your logic, but Luck they say is the best prospect, and that is what it is he's a prospect, not proven, just a guess. Albeit a very good guess, the experts says. But there's also that chance he could bust. In this case where do we go from here? Now keep in mind we"ll be on the hook for this guy his first contract.

[Dan]

I understand where ur coming from and your logic, but Luck they say is the best prospect, and that is what it is he's a prospect, not proven, just a guess. I'll be it a very good guess, the experts says. But there's also that chance he could bust. In this case where do we go from here? Now keep in mind we"ll be on the hook for this guy his first contract.

Thing is, it's a risk to not take him. A lot of people are saying Manning might not ever play again, and even if he does, he's going to be 36 the next time he takes a snap. Let's say we don't pick Luck and Manning is ruled out for another year, we'll have another season like 2011.

[JTcardscolts]

Thing is, it's a risk to not take him. A lot of people are saying Manning might not ever play again, and even if he does, he's going to be 36 the next time he takes a snap. Let's say we don't pick Luck and Manning is ruled out for another year, we'll have another season like 2011.

But like I've said we would have 2 more first round picks next year to get another shot at a very good QB.

[shecolt]

I have a question about Andrew Luck. Yes, I could start a thread to ask; but we already have enough Luck threads IMO. So, this seemed like as good of a thread as any to highjack :hijack: to ask my question.

Why did Andrew Luck redshirt his freshman year?

Was he injured?

Did Stanford have a QB that they thought was better?

Did Stanford/Harbaugh think it would be better for Luck to sit out and acclimate himself to the game?

Or, was there some other reason?

I have tried to find the answer and couldn't. So, I am hoping that someone here knows.

[gacker65]

I want to know what the big deal is with Luck. He is a system QB like "Big" Ben and Tom B. Some analysts have compared Luck to those two and I do not see the Colts having a system Offense. Luck has not played go against good Defenses such as Oregon and USC as examples. He is a good QB, but he is not the Second coming (of PM). Let's get over the hype and think about improving rhe whole team.

[Dan]

I have a question about Andrew Luck. Yes, I could start a thread to ask; but we already have enough Luck threads IMO. So, this seemed like as good of a thread as any to highjack :hijack: to ask my question.

Why did Andrew Luck redshirt his freshman year?

Was he injured?

Did Stanford have a QB that they thought was better?

Did Stanford/Harbaugh think it would be better for Luck to sit out and acclimate himself to the game?

Or, was there some other reason?

I have tried to find the answer and couldn't. So, I am hoping that someone here knows.

As far as I know, he just really wanted to finish his degree.

[Dan]

I want to know what the big deal is with Luck. He is a system QB like "Big" Ben and Tom B. Some analysts have compared Luck to those two and I do not see the Colts having a system Offense. Luck has not played go against good Defenses such as Oregon and USC as examples. He is a good QB, but he is not the Second coming (of PM). Let's get over the hype and think about improving rhe whole team.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/feature/video/_/id/7303334/ultimate-scouting-report

That explains every bit of Luck's game as to why he's a special talent

[JTcardscolts]

I have a question about Andrew Luck. Yes, I could start a thread to ask; but we already have enough Luck threads IMO. So, this seemed like as good of a thread as any to highjack :hijack: to ask my question.

Why did Andrew Luck redshirt his freshman year?

Was he injured?

Did Stanford have a QB that they thought was better?

Did Stanford/Harbaugh think it would be better for Luck to sit out and acclimate himself to the game?

Or, was there some other reason?

I have tried to find the answer and couldn't. So, I am hoping that someone here knows.

U bring up an interesting point, why would a player of such caliber have to redshift? Think I will be doing some digging on this one.

[Dan]

U bring up an interesting point, why would a player of such caliber have to redshift? Think I will be doing some digging on this one.

No need.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5995754

"I am committed to earning my degree in architectural design from Stanford University and am on track to accomplish this at the completion of the spring quarter of 2012"

[Case]

Stanford was awful in 2008 which was lucks freshman year. I think harbaugh wanted luck to redshirt so he could practice with team and learn the offense without losing a year. They weren't a good team so no point to put your freshman qb in their. Just let him sit and learn the system.

[gacker65]

http://espn.go.com/n...scouting-report

That explains every bit of Luck's game as to why he's a special talent

Read It, but it still does not explain why every one thinks he is worthy of being drafted #1. His stats are similar to other QBs that played this year. He did not lead Stanford to the Pac-12 title(lost to Oregon). Could not win the bowl game(do not blame kicker, if Luck would have played better would not have to rely on kicker). There are other QBs entering the draft who's fooball IQ is as good as Luck's(per CBS Sports and Bucky Brooks of NFL.com). Skill set no better than any other QB coming out. So, I do not understand.

[Case]

Read It, but it still does not explain why every one thinks he is worthy of being drafted #1. His stats are similar to other QBs that played this year. He did not lead Stanford to the Pac-12 title(lost to Oregon). Could not win the bowl game(do not blame kicker, if Luck would have played better would not have to rely on kicker). There are other QBs entering the draft who's fooball IQ is as good as Luck's(per CBS Sports and Bucky Brooks of NFL.com). Skill set no better than any other QB coming out. So, I do not understand.

Who cares about bowl games. Name a good qb in the league who won the bcs title. Being a good college player in a college system and being a good player in a pro system are two diff things. He has absolutely no weapons and he puts up great numbers. U have to watch him to understand it. U just can't read an article and make ur mind up

[Dan]

Who cares about bowl games. Name a good qb in the league who won the bcs title. Being a good college player in a college system and being a good player in a pro system are two diff things. He has absolutely no weapons and he puts up great numbers. U have to watch him to understand it. U just can't read an article and make ur mind up

That's the thing though - it's a set of videos picking apart every part of his game (from arm strength to short/deep passing to mobility and everything else) explaining why he excels. It's more than just an article.

[Case]

That's the thing though - it's a set of videos picking apart every part of his game (from arm strength to short/deep passing to mobility and everything else) explaining why he excels. It's more than just an article.

If u haven't watched a player play and ur arguments aren't relevant then u shouldn't be commenting on the topic. U just don't want to see Peyton go.

[Dan]

If u haven't watched a player play and ur arguments aren't relevant then u shouldn't be commenting on the topic. U just don't want to see Peyton go.

I hope this isn't to me because everyone knows I'm pro-Luck! I was just pointing out how it's hard to watch the videos on that link and still come out saying he's crap.

[Case]

I hope this isn't to me because everyone knows I'm pro-Luck! I was just pointing out how it's hard to watch the videos on that link and still come out saying he's crap.

That was to gacker lol sorry

[JWF]

U bring up an interesting point, why would a player of such caliber have to redshift? Think I will be doing some digging on this one.

Didnt realize we were talking about the doppler effect now.... ;)

Sorry. My inner nerd couldnt resist.

But most stable programs redshirt their freshmen, especially QBs.

[GrizzColt]

The only reason someone would NOT like Luck is because they don't think he has enough arm strength. Plain and simple. He's big, tall, mobile, smart, plays the pro set, calls his own plays at the LOS,......there is no other reason not to like him.

[Captain Americolt]

So if you dont want Luck, you're just a PM fan? Havent heard that one...

I would certainly prefer a trade down, but having luck wouldnt be too bad either..

Im a fan of the Colts, not just PM. I have been starting to see it more and more recently..."you dont want Luck because youre a PM fan". If someone wants a trade down, thats their opinion. They believe thats better for the team overall in the future. Not just because "their a PM fan and dont want to see him go"

[Blue Horseshoe]

The only reason someone would NOT like Luck is because they don't think he has enough arm strength. Plain and simple. He's big, tall, mobile, smart, plays the pro set, calls his own plays at the LOS,......there is no other reason not to like him.

There are plenty of other reasons.

[Blackhawk4]

There are plenty of other reasons.

There are legit reasons then reasons you make up, because you got nothing else to knock a player on.

[Blue Horseshoe]

1) You have a good quarterback and want him to lead you to a championship and don't want to waste the pick on someone who won't play immediately

2) You believe the prospect is being overrated

3) You do not want to create a quarterback controversy at this time

4) You believe there are other players who will better meet your needs

I can think of tons of reasons not to take the guy.

[shecolt]

Stanford was awful in 2008 which was lucks freshman year. I think harbaugh wanted luck to redshirt so he could practice with team and learn the offense without losing a year. They weren't a good team so no point to put your freshman qb in their. Just let him sit and learn the system.

Thanks, MP, for answering my question. :highfive:

[doogansquest]

Sources say Irsay's taking Luck with the first pick.

Sources have been awfully wrong about Irsay lately too. Irsay himself hasn't said it, so that's all that matters.

Your just a really big PM fan and u dont want to see your fav player let go which I understand. Your telling yourself luck will be a bust so you don't have to face it that maybe the colts actually will move on. There were just as many people if not more saying PM had peaked that we wouldn't be a franchise qb and so on. This is a rare prospect that you have to consider. 2-4 years of an aging qb or 15 years of a younger qb will amazing potential but some risk

Ahh...the old "trouble letting go" argument. No one is telling themselves Luck will be a bust to psyche themselves into a fantasy. I promise you, 100%, that Irsay will not cut Manning or trade him. No matter what. Manning may decide to retire, but if he chooses to play, he'll be playing, and starting, for the Indianapolis Colts.

P.S. People were not saying Peyton had peaked. If anything, they said he wasn't as "pro-ready" as Leaf. Also, the 2-4 vs. 15 years is a laughable argument. Why does one exclude the other? Also, what in the world makes anyone think we can attach 15 years of great play to any QB prospect? No one plays that well for that long in this league. It just doesn't happen. Unless Luck is better than Manning, he will be less than Manning, not playing for 4 years, and then will likely take a few more against the 1st team(s) to get fully acclimated. It will be more like 5-6 total years, if he's REALLY amazing, and those years are a long ways away from now.

Manning, we know for a fact, gives us chances to get to and win Super Bowls. That's better for this team than what could be 10 years from now.

Thing is, it's a risk to not take him. A lot of people are saying Manning might not ever play again, and even if he does, he's going to be 36 the next time he takes a snap. Let's say we don't pick Luck and Manning is ruled out for another year, we'll have another season like 2011.

The only people saying Manning might not ever play again are the people who are nowhere near the situation. Doctors, scientists, and Manning all seem to suggest that he will suit up for the Colts in 2012. He also might be 36, but his body will have had a year off, and will be pain-free. In other words, more like he was at 31/32. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

http://espn.go.com/n...scouting-report

That explains every bit of Luck's game as to why he's a special talent

In other words, no one here has a clue as to what may or may not make him special. They are just regurgitating what they've heard or read from a sports journalist. That report was as bias as a mother defending her son from a jail sentence.

This is easy to tell too, because all of the pro-Luck (to replace Manning NOW) comments are just direct ripoffs of something some guy on tv or the radio has said.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Sources have been awfully wrong about Irsay lately too. Irsay himself hasn't said it, so that's all that matters.

Ahh...the old "trouble letting go" argument. No one is telling themselves Luck will be a bust to psyche themselves into a fantasy. I promise you, 100%, that Irsay will not cut Manning or trade him. No matter what. Manning may decide to retire, but if he chooses to play, he'll be playing, and starting, for the Indianapolis Colts.

P.S. People were not saying Peyton had peaked. If anything, they said he wasn't as "pro-ready" as Leaf. Also, the 2-4 vs. 15 years is a laughable argument. Why does one exclude the other? Also, what in the world makes anyone think we can attach 15 years of great play to any QB prospect? No one plays that well for that long in this league. It just doesn't happen. Unless Luck is better than Manning, he will be less than Manning, not playing for 4 years, and then will likely take a few more against the 1st team(s) to get fully acclimated. It will be more like 5-6 total years, if he's REALLY amazing, and those years are a long ways away from now.

Manning, we know for a fact, gives us chances to get to and win Super Bowls. That's better for this team than what could be 10 years from now.

The only people saying Manning might not ever play again are the people who are nowhere near the situation. Doctors, scientists, and Manning all seem to suggest that he will suit up for the Colts in 2012. He also might be 36, but his body will have had a year off, and will be pain-free. In other words, more like he was at 31/32. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

In other words, no one here has a clue as to what may or may not make him special. They are just regurgitating what they've heard or read from a sports journalist. That report was as bias as a mother defending her son from a jail sentence.

This is easy to tell too, because all of the pro-Luck (to replace Manning NOW) comments are just direct ripoffs of something some guy on tv or the radio has said.

DQ,...is wise...very wise.Keep sticking it to them!It always makes me laugh when they can't rebuff you.

[Case]

Sources have been awfully wrong about Irsay lately too. Irsay himself hasn't said it, so that's all that matters.

Ahh...the old "trouble letting go" argument. No one is telling themselves Luck will be a bust to psyche themselves into a fantasy. I promise you, 100%, that Irsay will not cut Manning or trade him. No matter what. Manning may decide to retire, but if he chooses to play, he'll be playing, and starting, for the Indianapolis Colts.

P.S. People were not saying Peyton had peaked. If anything, they said he wasn't as "pro-ready" as Leaf. Also, the 2-4 vs. 15 years is a laughable argument. Why does one exclude the other? Also, what in the world makes anyone think we can attach 15 years of great play to any QB prospect? No one plays that well for that long in this league. It just doesn't happen. Unless Luck is better than Manning, he will be less than Manning, not playing for 4 years, and then will likely take a few more against the 1st team(s) to get fully acclimated. It will be more like 5-6 total years, if he's REALLY amazing, and those years are a long ways away from now.

Manning, we know for a fact, gives us chances to get to and win Super Bowls. That's better for this team than what could be 10 years from now.

The only people saying Manning might not ever play again are the people who are nowhere near the situation. Doctors, scientists, and Manning all seem to suggest that he will suit up for the Colts in 2012. He also might be 36, but his body will have had a year off, and will be pain-free. In other words, more like he was at 31/32. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

In other words, no one here has a clue as to what may or may not make him special. They are just regurgitating what they've heard or read from a sports journalist. That report was as bias as a mother defending her son from a jail sentence.

This is easy to tell too, because all of the pro-Luck (to replace Manning NOW) comments are just direct ripoffs of something some guy on tv or the radio has said.

They were to saying manning might have peaked so your wrong there.lol you wanna talk about laughable your saying since manning took a year off because of neck surgery that he isn't really going to feel 36 he is going to feel like he is 31/32 and then claim that it's a fact come on seriously.

""Unless Luck is better than Manning, he will be less than Manning, not playing for 4 years""

Who says he isn't going to play for four years? If they draft luck he don't sit for more then 2 years. Just because there is 4 years left in pm contract doesn't mean that's how long he will be with the colts. A lot can happen in 4 years.

Just because u don't agree with what other people have to say doesn't mean that they are wrong or that they just say what they hear on tv.

How do you know 100% Irsay won't cut or trace manning in a couple years? I've heard people say that on tv so r u just repeating what you have heard?

And we don't know for a fact if manning gives us a chance to win a super bowl. This team is a couple years a way from getting players in position to be a real contender.

[Case]

DQ,...is wise...very wise.Keep sticking it to them!It always makes me laugh when they can't rebuff you.

You can remove ur knee pads now

[IndyTrav]

Sources have been awfully wrong about Irsay lately too. Irsay himself hasn't said it, so that's all that matters..... And if he does take Luck you'll?

Ahh...the old "trouble letting go" argument. No one is telling themselves Luck will be a bust to psyche themselves into a fantasy. I promise you, 100%, that Irsay will not cut Manning or trade him. No matter what. Manning may decide to retire, but if he chooses to play, he'll be playing, and starting, for the Indianapolis Colts. Why are people so convinced Luck is Leaf? Its never his "game", he just 'is' a bust in some minds. No reasons.

P.S. People were not saying Peyton had peaked. If anything, they said he wasn't as "pro-ready" as Leaf. Also, the 2-4 vs. 15 years is a laughable argument. Why does one exclude the other? Also, what in the world makes anyone think we can attach 15 years of great play to any QB prospect? No one plays that well for that long in this league. It just doesn't happen. Unless Luck is better than Manning, he will be less than Manning, not playing for 4 years, and then will likely take a few more against the 1st team(s) to get fully acclimated. It will be more like 5-6 total years, if he's REALLY amazing, and those years are a long ways away from now.... 5-6 total years??!?! You are losing it. You call out people for saying Luck 'may have 15years' but you follow it up with a 'Peyton will play for 4+".....Hello hypocrite.....So Manning will play 4 years. Luck will not have learned anything during those 4 years, and it will take an additional 2years for him to be good......brilliant......

Manning, we know for a fact, gives us chances to get to and win Super Bowls. That's better for this team than what could be 10 years from now. No, we know for a fact Manning WAS ABLE TO (past tense) get to an win Super Bowls. We have zero clue if he will ever play again, let alone go to another SB.

The only people saying Manning might not ever play again are the people who are nowhere near the situation. Doctors, scientists, and Manning all seem to suggest that he will suit up for the Colts in 2012. He also might be 36, but his body will have had a year off, and will be pain-free. In other words, more like he was at 31/32. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. So the speculation about Manning playng again, and speculation about the Colts taking Luck aren't comparable right? Because speculation in the field of medicine is more trustworthy than speculation in the field of sport? Is that right?..... So 36yrs old, minus 1 yr off equals 31 yrs old? Your Math would thrill alot of baby boomers. Thats a fact.

In other words, no one here has a clue as to what may or may not make him special. They are just regurgitating what they've heard or read from a sports journalist. That report was as bias as a mother defending her son from a jail sentence. And you've clearly shown you are middle ground

This is easy to tell too, because all of the pro-Luck (to replace Manning NOW) comments are just direct ripoffs of something some guy on tv or the radio has said. Yes, because 2 people in 2 different places have never come to the same conclusion about anything.

[Flash7]

This is a hypothetical situation with a view point skewed towards the Luck supporters.

It's clear that we are in a situation where a very tough decision has to be made. At the end of the day, the most prudent decision would be to draft Andrew Luck. Mainly because if we are currently dealing with facts, we would have to ask ourselves:

1. Who is our current starting QB? The answer is NOT Manning, rather it's Orlovsky.

2. What is Manning's status? He is rehabbing from his 3rd surgery. All signs are showing a recovery, but still uncertainty remains.

3. If Manning were to return, what can we expect from him? Logically, we would have to expect a dropp-off in performance due to not playing in a year. We have seen Manning take time off and return rusty. (Doogan, your logic of an increase in performance because he would be pain free may have some merrit, however, the logic of him playing like a 31/32 year old does not hold water.)

4. What can we expect from the team? It appears that we can expect change in many different ways, from coaching to players leaving via FA and retirement. It's hard to say what we can realistically expect in 2012.

Now, with all of these uncertainties, we should trade the pick? Knowing that our current QB is Orlovsky, we shouldn't draft Manning's successor?

Imagine if this were to play out.... It turns out that Manning hasn't fully recovered yet and he may have to miss out on part of the upcoming season. Wouldn't we all be complaining that the red flags were clearly evident, yet the GM managed not to do anything about the QB situation?

[oldunclemark]

Just thought I would bring this up for a friendly debate.

Physically And athletically these guys are identical, College stats very simular(at least their last season), both ran a pro-style offense in college, and both colleges are known to be run oriented, and known for their o-line. Even their schools they went to are simular in the fact they are both "prestigious" universties academically. So neither one of them were slouches when it came to class time.

Coming out of college Quinn too was highly talked about as being a NFL ready quarterback is rookie season, coming from Wiess pro-style offense. And the only reason he was taken 1 overall was because of Russells raw and "rare" potential to be a big time QB with his big time arm(side note, the "experts" blew this dude way up, it was ridiculous). Also the fins were to take him at 3 but decided they couldn't pass up Ted Qinn athletic ability(this was when Hester was doing his thing and everyone thought they need a sick return guy to be successful), Cleveland passed cause of Joe Thomas was still on the bored and without a o-line your franchise QB is useless, they were gonna trade up but soon realized no other team had that need and waited till 22 to get him. And when they did make the pick the next day that's all everyone talked about is how the browns had a A+ draft and will be back on the map in a couple years. Didn't work out will for them or Quinn did it( I too was on Quinn band wagon), following year Derek Anderson(6th rounder) gets the job from Frye and, the "experts" quickly proclaim him the new browns franchise QB(just like they did with Freeman from Tampa this year), and Quinn, the NFL ready prospect is now and has been a NFL back up QB. As for the raiders who took Russell 1 overall, well they passed on players like, "megatron", Adrian Peterson, Okoye, Patrick Willis, Lamar woodley, Ryan kalil, revis, Sidney Rice, And Jon beason. Could you imagine if they traded down and would of got a few of these guys on the same team?

So am I saying Luck is the next Quinn?

No that would be doing a diservices to him.

I'm simply saying the draft can be hit or miss, and some of these so-called experts are just like us they watch a player and come to a conclusion, which could be biased. Go head and say but theyve been doing it for years tho, and played. I bet there's an old timer reading this right now that's been watching football longer then some of us have been alive, no one his calling him an expert, heck I played college ball and I am far from an expert, but would bet my bank account I could pick a better draft then "some" of these so-called analyst and experts. So yea they get paid to do it, true. But I can guarantee all of these experts have been wrong on many occasions and have costed a lot of teams a lot of money because they said this guys should be drafted at this spot. But where I work if u cost your company money you don't get to keep your job.

So I'll ask u again if we draft this guy and release Peyton, and he turns out to be a bust. Where does this franchise go from there?

IMO this would be devastating and would put us with the bottom feeders of the NFL withthe likes ofthe browns, raiders, lions(I kno theyre doing better), and bills(then too). Lets face it guys It's not like were flashy franchise people. If we get in a bidding war over a player why would they want to come here? The year round nice weather, all the hot babes in swimsuits, all the celebs walking around. No, it's cause we win and if Luck turns out to be a bust and no Peyton we become the laughing stock of the NFL. And just like how everyone is talking about taking Luck, everyone will be talking about how the release/trade of Peyton was the worst in NFL history.

Very true..

some of the same things could have been said about Jimmy Claussen as well

I've asked before..How do we know Andrew Luck isnt Carson Palmer?

[IndyTrav]

Very true..

some of the same things could have been said about Jimmy Claussen as well

I've asked before..How do we know Andrew Luck isnt Carson Palmer?

Because questions like that get you NO WHERE!

How do we know Luck isn't Palmer? Carr? Leaf?

How do we know Luck isn't Montana/Brady/Brees?

People need to quit comparing him to NFL players. Good and Bad.

People need to start discussing, arm strength, accuracy, play calling, etc. All of which are the only things you can judge him on.

BTW if Jimmy Claussen and Brady Quinn are 6-2 and 6-3 Im 7-9'.....