FBI Launches Daily Fantasy Football Probe

[18Manning]

There is a reason that Vegas and other gambling places make millions of dollars. For every 1 winner there is 100 losers. How many dollars are lost just so the casinos can pay their light bills? The same holds true for the gambling sites on line.

 

Exactly, they don't build billion dollar resorts/casinos by losing money.

[jvan1973]

There is a reason that Vegas and other gambling places make millions of dollars. For every 1 winner there is 100 losers. How many dollars are lost just so the casinos can pay their light bills? The same holds true for the gambling sites on line.

You aren't playing against the house in daily fantasy. They make their money by taking 10% of the pot. It is nothing like a casino unless you are only taking

Talking about the poker room

[crazycolt1]

You aren't playing against the house in daily fantasy. They make their money by taking 10% of the pot. It is nothing like a casino unless you are only taking

Talking about the poker room

So does this 10% count against the money the employees are making by using inside trader information? I think Martha Stewart went to jail for that if I am not mistaken.

[jvan1973]

So does this 10% count against the money the employees are making by using inside trader information? I think Martha Stewart went to jail for that if I am not mistaken.

They take the 10 percent of the total pot. The insider trading thing has nothing to do with the fact that daily fantasy and casinos aren't the same thing. Also, employees from draftkings won their money on FanDuel. They are also no longer allowed to participate in any daily fantasy leagues

[Nadine]

There is a reason that Vegas and other gambling places make millions of dollars. For every 1 winner there is 100 losers. How many dollars are lost just so the casinos can pay their light bills? The same holds true for the gambling sites on line.

they got no state tax in Vegas but, they've got a lot of gambling- related sins there.

 

so depressing getting up in the morning and seeing folks who have clearly been there all night

 

I have issues but glad I don't have that one!

[ColtsBlueFL]

It's gambling but then so is the stock market

 

The difference is... the stock market has independent oversight via the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.  These institutions can carry out penalties for someones illicit actions.

 

A DraftKings employee used private company data to win $350,000 on FanDuel.  This prompted the companies to forbid employees from playing on the competitors web site.  But who will enforce this?  Self policing?  Yeah right.  Heavily regulated industries most likely never started that way.  It is a direct and rearward looking reflection of previous events.  As will the Single game fantasy industry soon be, IMHO.

[SteelCityColt]

The difference is... the stock market has independent oversight via the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.  These institutions can carry out penalties for someones illicit actions.

 

A DraftKings employee used private company data to win $350,000 on FanDuel.  This prompted the companies to forbid employees from playing on the competitors web site.  But who will enforce this?  Self policing?  Yeah right.  Heavily regulated industries most likely never started that way.  It is a direct and rearward looking reflection of previous events.  As will the Single game fantasy industry soon be, IMHO.

 

I'm probably being dumb here Blue but even with some inside info how is it a guaranteed win? On the stock exchange if you get a good insider tip it's based normally on information that's going to cause a large shift in a stock price when it becomes public knowledge and so by getting ahead of the game you can profit. In this case aren't the winners and losers still decided by the players' performances?

 

I guess you could work the most efficient lineup to have based on % owned across the board and increase your EV. Turning into a lottery where you have slight advantage over other players?

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm probably being dumb here Blue but even with some inside info how is it a guaranteed win? On the stock exchange if you get a good insider tip it's based normally on information that's going to cause a large shift in a stock price when it becomes public knowledge and so by getting ahead of the game you can profit. In this case aren't the winners and losers still decided by the players' performances?

 

I guess you could work the most efficient lineup to have based on % owned across the board and increase your EV. Turning into a lottery where you have slight advantage over other players?

 

Well, there are questions about whether people with access to detailed information about how daily fantasy players are making picks are using that information to win.  They say they aren't, but there's no oversight, just like no oversight to keep insiders from playing on the competitors web site even though it has been prohibited by both companies.  Football teams skirt rules to gain an advantage, so do a few folks in any industry in life. 

 

If I have access to exclusive and detailed information that you cannot get access to, then who has the advantage in securing a victory? 

 

Let me put it in an example using the American version of 'rounders'  {to others, a little UK speak there}.

 

Lets say the next opponent of a MLB club is starting a left handed pitcher named Lefty Batbreaker against another team B.  Say team B's  power hitter in the 5th batting slot (Bobby Ballblaster) bats right handed.  But he has problems with fastballs up in the zone.  Then say secret unobtainable data compiled for him against Lefty Batbreaker shows his power plummets and batting average drops almost .125 points where he typically increases his power against other left handed pitchers and batting average only drops 0.010 points.  There's a great chance Mr. insider gives  Bobby Ballblaster a day off on his batting lineup and substitutes another player in  his lineup.  Come game day, the manager of the real club team B that the fantasy game is based on also gives the day off to Bobby Ballblaster and uses another player for that game.  Mr. average fantasy gamer counted on Bobby Ballblaster in the lineup in hopes of some homeruns, or at least some hits and RBI's, and had hin in his lineup, but gets nothing instead.  Player #1 substitutes their usual replacement in because even if the manager of the real club doesn't substitute for said player, it is unlikely, given the data at hand, that the player generates any useful output anyway.  So many ways such information can provide an advantage in so many ways and means.  There is no skill, just a better choice based upon better information.

 

I am certain there are plenty of data concerning matchups of players vs teams, schemes, and even more detailed, etc that many fans don't have access to.  Who here has an Elias Sports Bureau account?  How many companies in the sporting world do? It's sabermetrics  (Think Bill James and Theo Epstein, and Moneyball) and many in NFL football are beginning to use it now.

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12331388/the-great-analytics-rankings

 

Believe me, congress will regulate any entity of such where there can be a disparity between the 'Haves' and the 'Have Nots'. Especially where big bucks are at play.   

 

Where was the skill from fantasy guy 1 over fantasy guy 2?  Having access to information that may not be available to fantasy player #2 is not a skill.  It will be interesting to see what comes about, but taking their word that they can keep their houses in order themselves won;t fly, because, unfortunately, there are crooks everywhere and it never happens.

[SteelCityColt]

Well, there are questions about whether people with access to detailed information about how daily fantasy players are making picks are using that information to win.  They say they aren't, but there's no oversight, just like no oversight to keep insiders from playing on the competitors web site even though it has been prohibited by both companies.  Football teams skirt rules to gain an advantage, so do a few folks in any industry in life. 

 

 

Thank you as ever for a detailed response.

 

I can see how yes it's an advantage but how are you going to police it?

 

Good article too by the way, I'm not surprised really to see who are the most foreward thinking teams and who are more "traditional blue collar" type GMs. 

 

Kudos too for some UK speak, though I honestly first thought when you said Rounders you meant... 

 

[jvan1973]

Well, there are questions about whether people with access to detailed information about how daily fantasy players are making picks are using that information to win. They say they aren't, but there's no oversight, just like no oversight to keep insiders from playing on the competitors web site even though it has been prohibited by both companies. Football teams skirt rules to gain an advantage, so do a few folks in any industry in life.

If I have access to exclusive and detailed information that you cannot get access to, then who has the advantage in securing a victory?

Let me put it in an example using the American version of 'rounders' {to others, a little UK speak there}.

Lets say the next opponent of a MLB club is starting a left handed pitcher named Lefty Batbreaker against another team B. Say team B's power hitter in the 5th batting slot (Bobby Ballblaster) bats right handed. But he has problems with fastballs up in the zone. Then say data compiled for him against Lefty Batbreaker shows his power plummets and batting average drops almost .125 points where he typically increases his power against other left handed pitchers and batting average only drops 0.010 points. There's a great chance Mr. insider gives Bobby Ballblaster a day off on his batting lineup and substitutes another player in his lineup. Come game day, the manager of the real club team B that the fantasy game is based on also gives the day off to Bobby Ballblaster and uses another player for that game. Mr. average fantasy gamer counted on Bobby Ballblaster in the lineup in hopes of some homeruns, or at least some hits and RBI's, and had hin in his lineup, but gets nothing instead. Player #1 substitutes their usual replacement in because even if the manager of the real club doesn't substitute for said player, it is unlikely, given the data at hand, that the player generates any useful output anyway. So many ways such information can provide an advantage in so many ways and means. There is no skill, just a better choice based upon better information.

I am certain there are plenty of data concerning matchups of players vs teams, schemes, and even more detailed, etc that many fans don't have access to. Who here has an Elias Sports Bureau account? How many companies in the sporting world do? It's sabermetrics (Think Bill James and Theo Epstein, and Moneyball) and many in NFL football are beginning to use it now.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12331388/the-great-analytics-rankings

Believe me, congress will regulate any entity of such where there can be a disparity between the 'Haves' and the 'Have Nots'. Especially where big bucks are at play.

Where was the skill from fantasy guy 1 over fantasy guy 2? Having access to information that may not be available to fantasy player #2 is not a skill. It will be interesting to see what comes about, but taking their word that they can keep their houses in order themselves won;t fly, because, unfortunately, there are crooks everywhere and it never happens.

The info you used in your example is availible to the general public. All they have to do is go looking for it. That isn't what the draftkings employee is accused of. He is accused of using info that only their employees would know about. Percentage of players with player A in their lineup, etc

[dw49]

This is happening because the employees of Draft Kings were using inside information to win money on FanDuel and vice versa for FanDuel employees. This could be one of the biggest insider trading cases of all time, so no, it's not "stupid" for the government to investigate. They're not getting investigates because they're successful, they're getting investigated because they've been doing sketchy stuff in a largely unregulated industry for a few years now. The reports are that employees at these places were making more money playing on the sites than they were at their jobs. They were using the algorithms to determine price and the owner percentage of players on the site to increase their odds over normal players who didn't have that kind of information. That is very, very illegal. If you're going to form an opinion on something, it doesn't hurt to be educated on that topic.

 

 

There is absolutely no proof that he had the info before lineups locked Thursday. If they say he had an advantage for the games that didn't lock Thursday , you can go to DFS report and see what % of the field played such and such of the players. Been available for ages. My son and I use it all the time. It's pretty much the exact info this guy might have been getting. It's basically knowing that say.. 40% of the players used Tom Brady and only 2% used Nick Foles. So you might want to use Foles in a big tournament . If he goes off , you have a huge advantage because very few people have used him. 

 

This is all pretty much nonsense as they have zero proof that he did anything that really gave him an unfair advantage . In fact as far as anyone can tell , he didn't have the info until the lineups locked Thursday.

[dw49]

The info you used in your example is availible to the general public. All they have to do is go looking for it. That isn't what the draftkings employee is accused of. He is accused of using info that only their employees would know about. Percentage of players with player A in their lineup, etc

 

 

You are correct. It's total nonsense. My son and I play FF and FB for thousands every year . What this will do is probably educate some of the horrible players that were making this more of a game of skill than just plain gambling as some are saying. I know players that quit what they were doing now do this for a living. They are bright guys that are making big money.. 2-3 hundred K per year.

[crazycolt1]

they got no state tax in Vegas but, they've got a lot of gambling- related sins there.

 

so depressing getting up in the morning and seeing folks who have clearly been there all night

 

I have issues but glad I don't have that one!

I know what you are saying. I have only been to Vegas a couple of times with the intention of gambling. But my job used to take me to Atlantic City quite a bit and there are a lot of destitute people all around the area. Pawn shops are everywhere looking to finish them off?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Investigations are just that... if nothing untoward is going on, very little will come of it.  But unregulated businesses always have people 'taking some off the top' if left to their own devices unchecked.

[Cynjin]

You aren't playing against the house in daily fantasy. They make their money by taking 10% of the pot. It is nothing like a casino unless you are only taking

Talking about the poker room

 

 

Are you sure about the 10%?  I was listening to a story about Draftkings and Fanduel, the reporter said that the sites do not take any of the money from the players, but rather make their money from advertisers and the number of clicks.

[Patagonia Chris]

There is absolutely no proof that he had the info before lineups locked Thursday. If they say he had an advantage for the games that didn't lock Thursday , you can go to DFS report and see what % of the field played such and such of the players. Been available for ages. My son and I use it all the time. It's pretty much the exact info this guy might have been getting. It's basically knowing that say.. 40% of the players used Tom Brady and only 2% used Nick Foles. So you might want to use Foles in a big tournament . If he goes off , you have a huge advantage because very few people have used him. 

 

This is all pretty much nonsense as they have zero proof that he did anything that really gave him an unfair advantage . In fact as far as anyone can tell , he didn't have the info until the lineups locked Thursday.

 

DFS shows the owner percentage from the week before until that week locks. In no way shape or form can you get the owner percentage of players in a tournament before that week locks. DFS shows the Draft Kings ownership based on their "Million Dollar Maker Tournament" Which doesn't lock until Sunday. What this guy and other employees did, was check the owner ratings heading into the tournament then fill out their lineups based on players they liked that were undervalued by the public. That is a huge advantage. Time will tell whether he did or not, and when all of the DFS leagues are illegal in the near future, this won't matter.

[Patagonia Chris]

Are you sure about the 10%?  I was listening to a story about Draftkings and Fanduel, the reporter said that the sites do not take any of the money from the players, but rather make their money from advertisers and the number of clicks.

 

jvan is is right about them taking a little bit off of the top.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nadine

[jvan1973]

Are you sure about the 10%? I was listening to a story about Draftkings and Fanduel, the reporter said that the sites do not take any of the money from the players, but rather make their money from advertisers and the number of clicks.

I'm positive

[jvan1973]

DFS shows the owner percentage from the week before until that week locks. In no way shape or form can you get the owner percentage of players in a tournament before that week locks. DFS shows the Draft Kings ownership based on their "Million Dollar Maker Tournament" Which doesn't lock until Sunday. What this guy and other employees did, was check the owner ratings heading into the tournament then fill out their lineups based on players they liked that were undervalued by the public. That is a huge advantage. Time will tell whether he did or not, and when all of the DFS leagues are illegal in the near future, this won't matter.

Pretty ridiculous if they make it illegal.

[Cynjin]

I'm positive

Okay, thanks.

[Superman]

Investigations are just that... if nothing untoward is going on, very little will come of it.  But unregulated businesses always have people 'taking some off the top' if left to their own devices unchecked.

 

There's definitely something untoward about employees with inside information competing against customers without that information. It's the same reason for SEC disclosure filing laws.

[dw49]

There's definitely something untoward about employees with inside information competing against customers without that information. It's the same reason for SEC disclosure filing laws.

 

 

It really is going to boil down to when this employee had the info. If it was after the Thursday lock , it's no big deal. The site claims this was the case and say they can prove it. Word is also that this employees was not exactly killing the site.

 

On another note , there is an employee ( know him as I played in high stakes fantasy leagues with him for years) that has a high up job there that is privy to info that would be valuable. He is not allowed to have an account or play. Word is that he teamed up with someone and has an account under that person's name. I happen to know a little about this as my son plays poker professionally and comes into contact with some pretty serious gamblers. 

[Superman]

It really is going to boil down to when this employee had the info. If it was after the Thursday lock , it's no big deal. The site claims this was the case and say they can prove it. Word is also that this employees was not exactly killing the site.

On another note , there is an employee ( know him as I played in high stakes fantasy leagues with him for years) that has a high up job there that is privy to info that would be valuable. He is not allowed to have an account or play. Word is that he teamed up with someone and has an account under that person's name. I happen to know a little about this as my son plays poker professionally and comes into contact with some pretty serious gamblers.

I haven't followed it very closely, and wasn't aware that they're claiming the employee only got that info after locks were in. Kind of hard to prove, I think.

But what you say about information trickling down from higher ups and influencing the odds is the exact problem, and there's no real way to control that. With businesses, insider info isn't something that's going to make a big difference to most people in a regular basis. In this case, people who play each week could be facing a stacked deck, and have no idea.

[dw49]

I haven't followed it very closely, and wasn't aware that they're claiming the employee only got that info after locks were in. Kind of hard to prove, I think.

But what you say about information trickling down from higher ups and influencing the odds is the exact problem, and there's no real way to control that. With businesses, insider info isn't something that's going to make a big difference to most people in a regular basis. In this case, people who play each week could be facing a stacked deck, and have no idea.

 

 

Truth be known it's this Man of Steel. You have some very smart gamblers that are legally killing this. Making hundreds of thousands in just months. Then you have the poor public that would have no idea what to do with the info if they had it anyway .. losing their shirts. What it eventually evolves into is the poor players going broke and then the pros will battle it out if they want to even bother. 

 

This is how it works in this kind of economy. My son was worth 7 figures playing poker on line until the depression of 2008 hit . Plus they closed down the poker sites. He'd play 8 games at once on 2 computer screens. So thousands and thousands of hands vs players of less skill. So now he plays live in the casinos near LA. Those games a few years back would have maybe 3 good players , 3 decent ones and 3 horrible fish. Now you have like 7 professionals and good player and hopefully 1 bad player. Bottom line is now he makes barely enough to survive in Orange County CA. My point is this guy , even if he did have the info before the lock is not why John Q Public has no chance. believe it or not , the sites will do everything in their power to keep it clean as crap like this only hurts them. They are being investigated because (IMO) the gov. which wants to keep growing and growing has a nose out of joint as one of their regulations (luck vs skill) bit them in the coulee and they can't control this kind of gaming as we speak

 

JMO...

[bap1331]

There is a reason that Vegas and other gambling places make millions of dollars. For every 1 winner there is 100 losers. How many dollars are lost just so the casinos can pay their light bills? The same holds true for the gambling sites on line.

 

but these fantasy football owners claim they only get 30% of all the leagues, the rest goes to the people.

[jaybird95]

I hope they tank those businesses simply because I'm sick of seeing the advertisements.

[Superman]

Truth be known it's this Man of Steel. You have some very smart gamblers that are legally killing this. Making hundreds of thousands in just months. Then you have the poor public that would have no idea what to do with the info if they had it anyway .. losing their shirts. What it eventually evolves into is the poor players going broke and then the pros will battle it out if they want to even bother. 

 

This is how it works in this kind of economy. My son was worth 7 figures playing poker on line until the depression of 2008 hit . Plus they closed down the poker sites. He'd play 8 games at once on 2 computer screens. So thousands and thousands of hands vs players of less skill. So now he plays live in the casinos near LA. Those games a few years back would have maybe 3 good players , 3 decent ones and 3 horrible fish. Now you have like 7 professionals and good player and hopefully 1 bad player. Bottom line is now he makes barely enough to survive in Orange County CA. My point is this guy , even if he did have the info before the lock is not why John Q Public has no chance. believe it or not , the sites will do everything in their power to keep it clean as crap like this only hurts them. They are being investigated because (IMO) the gov. which wants to keep growing and growing has a nose out of joint as one of their regulations (luck vs skill) bit them in the coulee and they can't control this kind of gaming as we speak

 

JMO...

 

I agree with all of that.

 

But I think the same basic ideas apply to stock trading. Lots of people trying to buy and sell stocks who wouldn't know a good tip if it bit them in the butt. And yet, the basic principle is that relevant information is supposed to be shared with everyone.

 

And in this case, the way I understand it, where the action is going affects the odds in each game, so knowing where the action is going gives you a leg up. The pros are going to smoke everyone else, and the house is going to get their cut. Average Joes aren't going to become sharps just because they have that information. But everyone is supposed to have the same information at the same time.

 

The easy way is to just say employees can't play, free or paid games. Don't know if that's how it will play out, but I think that's the fair conclusion. And if I ran a platform like this, I don't think I would let employees of similar platforms play.

[ColtsBlueFL]

They already said employees can no longer participate.  But who will watch to be sure?  I feel all winners names should be public record as well.

 

In Iowa, Wisconsin, Arizona, Louisiana and Montana, residents are already ineligible to play for money on DraftKings or FanDuel. Now Nevada as well, until DraftKings and/or FanDuel apply for a Nevada license to operate.

 

The DFS industry might have to establish and maintain it's self regulating organizations, and they will have to send filings and answer to a legislative established body.  Records can be checked at any time.  The stock market has SRO's, and they report to the SEC.  I can see something similar coming here.

[dw49]

I agree with all of that.

 

But I think the same basic ideas apply to stock trading. Lots of people trying to buy and sell stocks who wouldn't know a good tip if it bit them in the butt. And yet, the basic principle is that relevant information is supposed to be shared with everyone.

 

And in this case, the way I understand it, where the action is going affects the odds in each game, so knowing where the action is going gives you a leg up. The pros are going to smoke everyone else, and the house is going to get their cut. Average Joes aren't going to become sharps just because they have that information. But everyone is supposed to have the same information at the same time.

 

The easy way is to just say employees can't play, free or paid games. Don't know if that's how it will play out, but I think that's the fair conclusion. And if I ran a platform like this, I don't think I would let employees of similar platforms play.

 

 

They do prohibit the employees that they feel have access to information that would give them an advantage. What they are claiming here is this employee can't get this info before the games locked Thursday and the add they will be able to prove that. Would he still have an advantage ? Some think yes .... others think no. 

 

But I do agree with what you have as its no doubt on point. Did you know that one of the poker sites (Ultimate Bet) had a small group that syphoned off I think around 2 mill by an employee making everyones hole card visible . They were so stupid and greedy that they caught as their win rate was ridiculous and the site or another player caught them . The poker sites have data stored where you can check out the playing data for any player. The site at least tried to make it right by distributing the amount won to the players that were playing in that time period. 

[Superman]

They do prohibit the employees that they feel have access to information that would give them an advantage. What they are claiming here is this employee can't get this info before the games locked Thursday and the add they will be able to prove that. Would he still have an advantage ? Some think yes .... others think no. 

 

But I do agree with what you have as its no doubt on point. Did you know that one of the poker sites (Ultimate Bet) had a small group that syphoned off I think around 2 mill by an employee making everyones hole card visible . They were so stupid and greedy that they caught as their win rate was ridiculous and the site or another player caught them . The poker sites have data stored where you can check out the playing data for any player. The site at least tried to make it right by distributing the amount won to the players that were playing in that time period. 

 

I think an employee who has access to that information at any point has an advantage over the other players. Over time, he can chart that information and pick up on trends and patterns which could influence his betting. If everyone who plays already has access to that info once the games are locked, then never mind.

 

As for proving that this employee didn't have access to that information beforehand, we'll see. Like you said, this info can come from higher up, and it's hard to prove that there hasn't been any info sharing. Legally, the burden of proof will be on the party bringing the case, so that probably won't matter.

 

I never heard that story about Ultimate Bet. That kind of stuff gets me. But one employee going rogue is something that can happen to any online games platform. That's why 'employees can't play' makes sense to me.

[dw49]

DFS shows the owner percentage from the week before until that week locks. In no way shape or form can you get the owner percentage of players in a tournament before that week locks. DFS shows the Draft Kings ownership based on their "Million Dollar Maker Tournament" Which doesn't lock until Sunday. What this guy and other employees did, was check the owner ratings heading into the tournament then fill out their lineups based on players they liked that were undervalued by the public. That is a huge advantage. Time will tell whether he did or not, and when all of the DFS leagues are illegal in the near future, this won't matter.

 

 

Here's something I found today...

 

 

 

huh... can't copy and paste . Go to darren Heitner @ darrenHeitner

[jvan1973]

Here's something I found today...

file:///Users/stephengiufre/Downloads/IMG_2913.PNG

?

[dw49]

?

just tried to fix it. It basically says they proved he had no advantage. You have to go to the twitter I just posted

[Patagonia Chris]

Here's something I found today...

 

 

 

huh... can't copy and paste . Go to darren Heitner @ darrenHeitner

 

Yeah I just read that. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[dw49]

Yeah I just read that. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

I think the bottom line is somebody needs to pay taxes ? But no doubt people have to be assured that insiders don't take advantage of their positions .

[jvan1973]

I think the bottom line is somebody needs to pay taxes ? But no doubt people have to be assured that insiders don't take advantage of their positions .

I assure you taxes are being paid. Draftkings and Fanduel are going to be completely legit. They have a goldmine, they are going to do everything they can to keep the government from messing with it

[dw49]

I assure you taxes are being paid. Draftkings and Fanduel are going to be completely legit. They have a goldmine, they are going to do everything they can to keep the government from messing with it

 

Yeah.. I was thinking of the offshore stuff .. the poker sites they shut down. They probably are paying taxes if US based.

 

Not for nothing but I used to play in a high stakes FF league with all poker players (I'm not one) and one of the players was the first to come up with this concept. He started a site where you drafted a team very week and played heads up vs other players. Not exactly the same format but pretty much the same concept. It never took off and he sold it for no big money. Not sure if it evolved from what restarted but I did here now has a big job with one of the big 2 you mention. 

[jvan1973]

Yeah.. I was thinking of the offshore stuff .. the poker sites they shut down. They probably are paying taxes if US based.

Not for nothing but I used to play in a high stakes FF league with all poker players (I'm not one) and one of the players was the first to come up with this concept. He started a site where you drafted a team very week and played heads up vs other players. Not exactly the same format but pretty much the same concept. It never took off and he sold it for no big money. Not sure if it evolved from what restarted but I did here now has a big job with one of the big 2 you mention.

I'm not sure if you know who Kenna James is, but he is my best friends cousin. We stayed at his place in Vegas a few years ago. It's safe to say those guys are on a different level where gambling is concerned. I enjoy gambling a little, I'm too conservative to make a career out of it. The highs are really high, but the lows can ruin you

[Patagonia Chris]

I think the bottom line is somebody needs to pay taxes ? But no doubt people have to be assured that insiders don't take advantage of their positions .

 

Yeah they're pretty strict on the taxes on those sites. When you win big you have to fill out the proper forms online to make sure the money is reported. It'll also be interesting to see where it goes with the NCAA players, as "student-athletes" are barred from participating in the games because the NCAA deems it gambling, but they can advertise in the pros because it's "not gambling". Something has got to give eventually.

[Patagonia Chris]

I'm not sure if you know who Kenna James is, but he is my best friends cousin. We stayed at his place in Vegas a few years ago. It's safe to say those guys are on a different level where gambling is concerned. I enjoy gambling a little, I'm too conservative to make a career out of it. The highs are really high, but the lows can ruin you

 

Pretty cool story. If you're going to be a professional gambler than chances are you're going to be rich and broke 7 times in your life. Be weary of the 7th.