Pro-Bowl Roster Out

[LUVTHESHOE]

Well, the pro bowl roster is out. And it looks like Dwight Freeney is the only Colt going. Thoughts?

I really like Dwight, but this goes to show that name recognition surpasses play , because in my

opinion there 3 or 4 other Colts who are much more deserving. 1,98,51,63, and maybe 41.

[Holden89]

Kind of ridiculous...not only did Stafford not make it in...but he isn't even the alternate? People are too caught up with Cam...Stafford is a better QB than him and has had a better year...

Congratulations to Freeney though. Too bad for McAfee...Lechler is gonna be tough to unseat.

[That Guy]

MacAfee is great, but to say he deserves it over Lechler this year is tough. Maybe he can win the honor next year, but Lechler had an 80 yard punt! 80 yards!!! IN THE AIR!!!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8248617d/Lechler-80-yd

Congrats to Lechler, because he EARNED IT this year!

[jgstriker]

MAC, what are you even talking about?

The topic was along the lines of "Hey Colts fans, here's some rare good news in this most miserable of years - Dwight Freeney was elected to the Pro-Bowl"!!!!!!

Dude....... what the craps are you talking about? IndyTrav makes a good point about the DE's in the AFC being crap compared to those of the NFC, which is entirely true, and you go on some tirade about fandom and what not. People who beleive that as a fan of a team, you have to blindly sit in the stands and clap your hands when the Colts march out terrible teams, flop on draft picks, continue to play poor defense and special teams, and suggest that it is ready to move on from some players need to hush up. Just because you don't drool over all the facets of a team does not make you a bad fan.

I say it makes you a good one.

[Robin]

Its about brand name, Freeney is a big name so he goes in, not many knows Angerer and McAfee,

Its like the season where Adam V got in when he was injured

we are 2-13 we got removed from primetime :/ ( when Colts where 14-0, Colts got shown 9/16 games on danish television.. This year? none except primetime)

[Captain Americolt]

Oh jesus. The NFC WR roster is crazy. Megatron, smith, fitzgerald, Jennings(I thought victor cruz should of had it over him). Who are the WR's in the AFC?

[MAC]

MAC, what are you even talking about?

The topic was along the lines of "Hey Colts fans, here's some rare good news in this most miserable of years - Dwight Freeney was elected to the Pro-Bowl"!!!!!!

Dude....... what the craps are you talking about? IndyTrav makes a good point about the DE's in the AFC being crap compared to those of the NFC, which is entirely true, and you go on some tirade about fandom and what not. People who beleive that as a fan of a team, you have to blindly sit in the stands and clap your hands when the Colts march out terrible teams, flop on draft picks, continue to play poor defense and special teams, and suggest that it is ready to move on from some players need to hush up. Just because you don't drool over all the facets of a team does not make you a bad fan.

I say it makes you a good one.

I didn't go on a tirade at all (which in fact, you just did), and I didn't question his fandom. I simply asked an honest question. There is a difference between being honestly critical of your own team and appearing to detest everything that they are and everything they stand for. I show more respect for the Patriots, Saints and Chargers than Indytrav does for the Colts. It just suddenly occurred to me, perhaps the reason is that he's actually not a fan of the Colts! There's plenty of them on here, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Having found my answer, I'll return to my previous habit of dismissing everything he says and going on to the next post, because NOTHING good ever comes from engaging someone like that in conversation.

How about you?

[IndyTrav]

I didn't go on a tirade at all (which in fact, you just did), and I didn't question his fandom. I simply asked an honest question. There is a difference between being honestly critical of your own team and appearing to detest everything that they are and everything they stand for. I show more respect for the Patriots, Saints and Chargers than Indytrav does for the Colts. It just suddenly occurred to me, perhaps the reason is that he's actually not a fan of the Colts! There's plenty of them on here, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Having found my answer, I'll return to my previous habit of dismissing everything he says and going on to the next post, because NOTHING good ever comes from engaging someone like that in conversation.

How about you?

You crack me up Mac.

I know my opinions aren't popular around here. You can keep on thinking Dwight is a HoF, Garcon is a #1 WR, Bethea is a top FS, Clark is a top TE, Collie is a premier Slot WR, so on and so forth, its your right as a fan. But when I come in here and point out the personal on the other 31 teams in the league are better it doesn't make me 'detest' the Colts. If anything I show more respect for the other players in the league than a single person on this forum. Not only that but I take the time to research and clearly state why I feel the way I do, which is often met with "your not a fan", which frankly, I could care less about.

But back to topic. How would you describe the state of DE in the AFC? Great?Good?Marginal?Poor?

[Andy]

You crack me up Mac.

I know my opinions aren't popular around here. You can keep on thinking Dwight is a HoF, Garcon is a #1 WR, Bethea is a top FS, Clark is a top TE, Collie is a premier Slot WR, so on and so forth, its your right as a fan. But when I come in here and point out the personal on the other 31 teams in the league are better it doesn't make me 'detest' the Colts. If anything I show more respect for the other players in the league than a single person on this forum. Not only that but I take the time to research and clearly state why I feel the way I do, which is often met with "your not a fan", which frankly, I could care less about.

But back to topic. How would you describe the state of DE in the AFC? Great?Good?Marginal?Poor?

Are you saying Antoine Bethea is not a top FS? He is, and the most underrated safety. He's a top 3 FS. and Dallas Clark is not a top 5 TE. Also, Dwight has a very good chance at the hall of fame. Not only has this guy been to 7 pro bowls, he's also had so many 12+ sack seasons, and is so dominant. He has a very good chance of going to Canton. Austin Collie can defnitely become a premier slot receiver, considering the year he had last year with PM. When Reggie retires, Pierre will be the #1 guy in Indy. So I think that Bethea is a top FS, Clark is a top 5 TE, Dwight has a good chance at the HOF, Collie will probably become a premier slotback, and Pierre will be the #1 guy when Reggie retires.

[IndyTrav]

Are you saying Antoine Bethea is not a top FS? He is, and the most underrated safety. He's a top 3 FS. and Dallas Clark is not a top 5 TE. Also, Dwight has a very good chance at the hall of fame. Not only has this guy been to 7 pro bowls, he's also had so many 12+ sack seasons, and is so dominant. He has a very good chance of going to Canton. Austin Collie can defnitely become a premier slot receiver, considering the year he had last year with PM. When Reggie retires, Pierre will be the #1 guy in Indy. So I think that Bethea is a top FS, Clark is a top 5 TE, Dwight has a good chance at the HOF, Collie will probably become a premier slotback, and Pierre will be the #1 guy when Reggie retires.

Cool beans bro.

Dwight wont sniff the HoF with Strahan,Abraham,Allen,Peppers all just DE who will get in ahead of him, not even getting into "sack specialists".

Dallas can't hold a candle to Gates,Witten,Davis,Graham, Gronk, Tony G...and thats without getting into Finley/Pettigrew/Winslow/Hernendez etc.

Bethea is fantastic, not better than Reed/Troy... As a NON Colt fan Im not sure you can put him above, Bell,E.Thomas, Harper, Eric Weddle,Reggie Nelson etc. because all have legit arguments above Bethea.

Collie is pretty good, but he can't be compared to Welker, Harvin,Cruz, Jordy. Then you get into guys like Lance Moore, Doucet, Breaston.Maclin?, Avant etc.

I like Garcon too, but at age 26 you'd have expected him to have a 'standout' year and he hasnt. He's gotten 32% of his career yards, and 43% of his career TDs in 6 games.

[Ramblinwreck7]

You crack me up Mac.

I know my opinions aren't popular around here. You can keep on thinking Dwight is a HoF, Garcon is a #1 WR, Bethea is a top FS, Clark is a top TE, Collie is a premier Slot WR, so on and so forth, its your right as a fan. But when I come in here and point out the personal on the other 31 teams in the league are better it doesn't make me 'detest' the Colts. If anything I show more respect for the other players in the league than a single person on this forum. Not only that but I take the time to research and clearly state why I feel the way I do, which is often met with "your not a fan", which frankly, I could care less about.

But back to topic. How would you describe the state of DE in the AFC? Great?Good?Marginal?Poor?

DE's in the AFC... Hmmm... Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Mario Williams... you call that bad?

[IndyTrav]

DE's in the AFC... Hmmm... Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Mario Williams... you call that bad?

Mario's been moved to OLB.

The NFC has Allen,Peppers,Babin,Pierre-Paul, Chris Long,Charles Johnson,Trent Cole,Justin Smith,Will Smith,Osi,Abraham,Tuck, Dockett...Thats without getting into the Clemons/Vanden Boshs/Avrils of the world. Or Rookies like Clayborn.

The AFC has Dumervil,Freeney, Mathis then Sheard/Carter/Anderson?

Would you like to go over the list some more?

[Ramblinwreck7]

Mario's been moved to OLB.

The NFC has Allen,Peppers,Babin,Pierre-Paul, Chris Long,Charles Johnson,Trent Cole,Justin Smith,Will Smith,Osi,Abraham,Tuck, Dockett...Thats without getting into the Clemons/Vanden Boshs/Avrils of the world. Or Rookies like Clayborn.

The AFC has Dumervil,Freeney, Mathis then Sheard/Carter/Anderson?

Would you like to go over the list some more?

Mario Williams is a DE.

[IndyTrav]

Mario Williams is a DE.

OLB.

http://www.nfl.com/player/mariowilliams/2495982/profile

He was moved this year to fill the DeMarcus Ware position in Wade Phillips 3-4 Def. The DE in Hou are JJ Watts (whos had a steller rookie year) and Antonio Smith.......

We can keep going round and round if you'd like.......

[Holden89]

Mario Williams is a DE.

He's an OLB now. He switched when the Texans moved to the 3-4.

[Andy]

Cool beans bro.

Dwight wont sniff the HoF with Strahan,Abraham,Allen,Peppers all just DE who will get in ahead of him, not even getting into "sack specialists".

Dallas can't hold a candle to Gates,Witten,Davis,Graham, Gronk, Tony G...and thats without getting into Finley/Pettigrew/Winslow/Hernendez etc.

Bethea is fantastic, not better than Reed/Troy... As a NON Colt fan Im not sure you can put him above, Bell,E.Thomas, Harper, Eric Weddle,Reggie Nelson etc. because all have legit arguments above Bethea.

Collie is pretty good, but he can't be compared to Welker, Harvin,Cruz, Jordy. Then you get into guys like Lance Moore, Doucet, Breaston.Maclin?, Avant etc.

I like Garcon too, but at age 26 you'd have expected him to have a 'standout' year and he hasnt. He's gotten 32% of his career yards, and 43% of his career TDs in 6 games.

My turn, bro.

Strahan is retired and will apply in a couple of years. John Abraham is going to retire in 1 years\, which means he'll get in 7\6 years. Freeney will retire in 3 years, which means he'll get in after 8 years with his only competition being Peppers. They'll both get in probably. He has the 23rd most sacks in history, and if he averages 10 sacks a year for 3 years, that's 30 and moves him 11th all time. Hard to turn that down.

This is Jimmy Graham's first year as a starter and you think he's better than him already. Keep in mind Jimmy has an elite elite elite QB. Dallas Clark is also a much better blocker than any of the guys you named. Tight end is more than receiving, it's also about blocking, and he's great at that.

Just because he's no Reed/Polamalu he ain't good? He's better than Thomas, Bell, Nelson (lol)... you think Reggie Nelson is better than him. That made me laugh really hard. Weddle gives him a run for his money, but Bethea is better all around. Just because Weddle has more picks doesn't mean he's better. Look at other stats... Bethea is the 3rd best FS, and in the top 7 overall.

Get your facts straight. Maclin, Nelson, Breaston, Doucet all play wide. Harvin plays a lot of outside too. Austin Collie was leading or in the top 3 of every big receiving category before his concussion. He was on fire. Next year with Manning, he'll probably be back at the top and he'll be considered one of the best.

Pierre Garcon is getting better, and when Reggie retires he will be the number 1.

[Emme30]

I was really hoping Angerer would be in there! I'm buying that mans' jersey soon! I only own one other jersey....#18. Angerer's impressed me so much this year! I am glad Dwight gets to go though!

[husker61]

Cool beans bro.

Dwight wont sniff the HoF with Strahan,Abraham,Allen,Peppers all just DE who will get in ahead of him, not even getting into "sack specialists".

Dallas can't hold a candle to Gates,Witten,Davis,Graham, Gronk, Tony G...and thats without getting into Finley/Pettigrew/Winslow/Hernendez etc.

Bethea is fantastic, not better than Reed/Troy... As a NON Colt fan Im not sure you can put him above, Bell,E.Thomas, Harper, Eric Weddle,Reggie Nelson etc. because all have legit arguments above Bethea.

Collie is pretty good, but he can't be compared to Welker, Harvin,Cruz, Jordy. Then you get into guys like Lance Moore, Doucet, Breaston.Maclin?, Avant etc.

I like Garcon too, but at age 26 you'd have expected him to have a 'standout' year and he hasnt. He's gotten 32% of his career yards, and 43% of his career TDs in 6 games.

very good post.

i like freeney and he is a great pass rusher, but he is absolutely non-existent against the run.

i have said for years clarke was way over rated.

[husker61]

Dallas Clark is also a much better blocker than any of the guys you named. Tight end is more than receiving, it's also about blocking, and he's great at that.

wow!! clarke a great blocker????

you can make a case for a receiver, but a blocker? that is just ridiculous!

[Andy]

wow!! clarke a great blocker????

you can make a case for a receiver, but a blocker? that is just ridiculous!

Some of his bad blocks this year have come front and center, but in the last several years, he's been generally a good blocker. You can't say he wasn't/

[husker61]

Some of his bad blocks this year have come front and center, but in the last several years, he's been generally a good blocker. You can't say he wasn't/

i haven't even watched that many games this year, what's the point. he has never been a good blocker.

[Ramblinwreck7]

OLB.

http://www.nfl.com/p...2495982/profile

He was moved this year to fill the DeMarcus Ware position in Wade Phillips 3-4 Def. The DE in Hou are JJ Watts (whos had a steller rookie year) and Antonio Smith.......

We can keep going round and round if you'd like.......

He's a DE. You think I don't know the Texans run a 3-4 defense? Mario Williams may play outside linebacker in Wade Philips defense, but he still plays with his hand on the ground half the time. He just moves around now and rushes from the stand up position the other half of the time. I consider most 3-4 outside linebackers to be pass rushers, like Demarcus Ware, so I group them with 4-3 DE's. You can't compare Haloti Ngata, a 3-4 DE, to Dwight Freeney, a 4-3 DE, can you?

[Ramblinwreck7]

very good post.

i like freeney and he is a great pass rusher, but he is absolutely non-existent against the run.

i have said for years clarke was way over rated.

There is no way that you agreed with half of what he said...

[Ramblinwreck7]

Cool beans bro.

Dwight wont sniff the HoF with Strahan,Abraham,Allen,Peppers all just DE who will get in ahead of him, not even getting into "sack specialists".

Dallas can't hold a candle to Gates,Witten,Davis,Graham, Gronk, Tony G...and thats without getting into Finley/Pettigrew/Winslow/Hernendez etc.

Bethea is fantastic, not better than Reed/Troy... As a NON Colt fan Im not sure you can put him above, Bell,E.Thomas, Harper, Eric Weddle,Reggie Nelson etc. because all have legit arguments above Bethea.

Collie is pretty good, but he can't be compared to Welker, Harvin,Cruz, Jordy. Then you get into guys like Lance Moore, Doucet, Breaston.Maclin?, Avant etc.

I like Garcon too, but at age 26 you'd have expected him to have a 'standout' year and he hasnt. He's gotten 32% of his career yards, and 43% of his career TDs in 6 games.

Come on dude, now I think your just making stuff up to try to prove a point... Your hating on a lot of colts players when your argument is not legitament.

[IndyTrav]

My turn, bro.

Strahan is retired and will apply in a couple of years. John Abraham is going to retire in 1 years\, which means he'll get in 7\6 years. Freeney will retire in 3 years, which means he'll get in after 8 years with his only competition being Peppers. They'll both get in probably. He has the 23rd most sacks in history, and if he averages 10 sacks a year for 3 years, that's 30 and moves him 11th all time. Hard to turn that down.

This is Jimmy Graham's first year as a starter and you think he's better than him already. Keep in mind Jimmy has an elite elite elite QB. Dallas Clark is also a much better blocker than any of the guys you named. Tight end is more than receiving, it's also about blocking, and he's great at that.

Just because he's no Reed/Polamalu he ain't good? He's better than Thomas, Bell, Nelson (lol)... you think Reggie Nelson is better than him. That made me laugh really hard. Weddle gives him a run for his money, but Bethea is better all around. Just because Weddle has more picks doesn't mean he's better. Look at other stats... Bethea is the 3rd best FS, and in the top 7 overall.

Get your facts straight. Maclin, Nelson, Breaston, Doucet all play wide. Harvin plays a lot of outside too. Austin Collie was leading or in the top 3 of every big receiving category before his concussion. He was on fire. Next year with Manning, he'll probably be back at the top and he'll be considered one of the best.

Pierre Garcon is getting better, and when Reggie retires he will be the number 1.

You just proved how Dwight wont get in. Its not the Hall of DE. If they elected 4 just recently, it will be hard to put in a 5th. And thats JUST DE. Jason Taylor will occupy a spot as well. Now we are talking 5 DE in a 6ish year span. Impossible. And he's 23rd in sacks? Maybe 11th? Kevin Greene is 2nd, with considerably more everything else, and HE's not in. Potentially 11th wont do it. It takes records, or DPoY.

In one year Jimmy has surpassed anything Dallas has accomplished. As a career, obviously Dallas has Graham trumped, but no one will take Dallas over Graham at this point in time. Dallas didn't have an elite Qb? An Dallas is an accomplished blocker? Both news to me.

I didn't say Nelson was better, I said those are player who have a legit argument over Bethea outside of our Colts Blue walls.

Bethea: 2 PB, 12Ints, .5 sacks, 34 PD, 5FF, 585 tack.......90games...

Nelson: 3sacks, 13Int 1TD, 39 PD, 5FF, 630 tack.....76games...

Weddle:1PB 4 sacks, 13int, 2 TDs, 40 PD, 1FTD, 434 tack....75games

What were you saying about stats again?

Collie plays wide to, they all play slot as well. Im not debating that for 6 games Austin Collie was a complete stud. But all of those guys have paid there dues, and played lights out in alot more than 6 games, and some under much worse conditions than what Collie had. But with you saying Garcon will be our #1, would that lead Collie to be our #2? At which point I really have a problem with. I think Collie is a good Slot, and that is it, but for him to be asked to be a 2 would be to much.

I dont doubt Pierre is getting better, but whats his realistic ceiling? 85 1200 9? That worked in 1984-2006 but not anymore.

[husker61]

There is no way that you agreed with half of what he said...

why is that?

[Ramblinwreck7]

why is that?

Read it again please, I mean he was making half of that stuff up to try to prove a point.

[husker61]

Read it again please, I mean he was making half of that stuff up to try to prove a point.

what was made up? his opinions? if you disagree with someones opinions, it doesn't mean they are made up.

[-JJ-]

I'm not sure but I don't think you can just say "I don't want to go" and get out of it. I think the most common way is an "injury" preventing the player from going.

yeah pretty much that but a sore arm even undocumented will suffice:)

[Exodus]

OOOOOOKKKKAAY!! @Indytrav and @Andy246. When the voting begins for the NFL HOF. The people get together and ask one simple question. "The history of the NFL would not be what it is today without......"

Dwight Freeney qualifies to be inserted in this question. Here is why!!!! He was "too small" coming out of college and was no wear near a 1st round pick. That aside, he INVENTED (or reinvented) the spin move. I hear Jon Gruden say all the time, "Man, so and so just used the freeney spin move on so and so for that sack Jaws" As a matter of fact, i have even heard Gruden use the word "Patented" Dwight Freeney spin move. Just like the word "Mossed" We all know when you moss someone, you jump up and go get the ball. So when you "Freeney'd" someone, you spun around the tackle for the sack.

Thats just my two cents. He's a rare player, and i feel like he'll get in NO PROBLEM. Now, i feel like i just hijacked my own thread.

[Ramblinwreck7]

what was made up? his opinions? if you disagree with someones opinions, it doesn't mean they are made up.

They were not logical opinions, which makes them made up. He can't believe everything that he wrote.

[Andy]

You just proved how Dwight wont get in. Its not the Hall of DE. If they elected 4 just recently, it will be hard to put in a 5th. And thats JUST DE. Jason Taylor will occupy a spot as well. Now we are talking 5 DE in a 6ish year span. Impossible. And he's 23rd in sacks? Maybe 11th? Kevin Greene is 2nd, with considerably more everything else, and HE's not in. Potentially 11th wont do it. It takes records, or DPoY.

These take in consistency and he's been very consistent over the course of his career. Plus, he'll retire in 3 years which means he'll be eligible in 8 years. Im not saying he's going to get in, but theres a good possibility he does.

In one year Jimmy has surpassed anything Dallas has accomplished. As a career, obviously Dallas has Graham trumped, but no one will take Dallas over Graham at this point in time. Dallas didn't have an elite Qb? An Dallas is an accomplished blocker? Both news to me.

Drew Brees passed the ball much more than PM ever did. Jimmy was also out on 90% of the plays. He's gotten more opportunities to catch the ball. Although Jimmy may be a great receiving TE, Dallas is the better overall TE. His blocking skills are good, whether you like it or not.

I didn't say Nelson was better, I said those are player who have a legit argument over Bethea outside of our Colts Blue walls.

Bethea: 2 PB, 12Ints, .5 sacks, 34 PD, 5FF, 585 tack.......90games...

Nelson: 3sacks, 13Int 1TD, 39 PD, 5FF, 630 tack.....76games...

Weddle:1PB 4 sacks, 13int, 2 TDs, 40 PD, 1FTD, 434 tack....75games

Nelson had 340 tackles. If you compare these guys from the last 3 years, Bethea is better. Antoine Bethea was not even close to NFL ready when he first began here. He slowly developed into a very good player.

What were you saying about stats again?

Collie plays wide to, they all play slot as well. Im not debating that for 6 games Austin Collie was a complete stud. But all of those guys have paid there dues, and played lights out in alot more than 6 games, and some under much worse conditions than what Collie had. But with you saying Garcon will be our #1, would that lead Collie to be our #2? At which point I really have a problem with. I think Collie is a good Slot, and that is it, but for him to be asked to be a 2 would be to much.

I dont doubt Pierre is getting better, but whats his realistic ceiling? 85 1200 9? That worked in 1984-2006 but not anymore.

Those numbers are good for a number 1 guy. I'm just saying that when Reggie Wayne leaves, he will take over his #1 spot, and he should do nice job . Look at how he's done this year with Orlovsky/Painter.

Look up

[Captain Americolt]

IndyTrav, howcome you put 630 tackles for Nelson? he has like 340. Did you just add like 300 tackles to make it seem comparable to Betheas tackle stats? You should also take into account that teams generally run more on us than other teams. Especially this year. Bethea plays more in the box than probably any other FS and still has good INT and pass defensed stats for his career.

[IMissMarvin]

Popularity contest like usual. Urlacher and Ray Lewis get in, London Fletcher and Navarro Bowman get snubbed. Texans' Left Tackle Duane Brown hasn't given up a sack all season, and Houston is 2nd only to the Broncos in rushing yards.

[IMissMarvin]

Phillip Rivers had a league leading 19 INTs he really got in?

Brandon Browner for the Seahawks and Chris Houston of the Lions deserved to get in over Charles Tillman and Victor Cruz should have got in over Jennings IMO.

Browner really deserved the Pro Bowl nod this year, he has 6 INTs, 20 Pass Deflections, 49 solo tackles and 2 TDs, one that was a 94 yard return.

[IMissMarvin]

Yeah it does seem most of the premier AFC Pass Rushers are playing OLB now (Lamar Woodley, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, Cameron Wake, Super Mario, Von Miller, Tamba Hali etc.)

Makes you think they should have more spots available for linebackers now that so many teams are using the 3-4 technique.

[IndyTrav]

IndyTrav, howcome you put 630 tackles for Nelson? he has like 340. Did you just add like 300 tackles to make it seem comparable to Betheas tackle stats? You should also take into account that teams generally run more on us than other teams. Especially this year. Bethea plays more in the box than probably any other FS and still has good INT and pass defensed stats for his career.

Your 100% correct I added to many tackles to Reggie. I saw career then must of added individual seasons. Honest mistake. I apologize.

[Jaric]

Phillip Rivers had a league leading 19 INTs he really got in?

Yeah this.

I'd rather see Tebow (or Andy Dalton) make it over the guy leading the league in interceptions.

As to Freeney? He's a pro bowl caliber player who probably didn't have a probowl caliber year. But he has serious name recognition which is what put him over the top. That's just how probowl voting works.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

No, that's not what I meant to say at all. What I meant to say was, The DE position in the AFC is a joke, which is exactly what I said. I didn't do a terrible job expressing myself. As a matter of fact it was crystal clear. Those that are educated rarely jump to the wrong conclusion.

How about I start a thread where we can all celebrate mediocrity and heap praises upon praises on someone who doesn't deserve it.

Because that's what 'real fans' do.

Freeney making the PB is nothing short of a sham. Patx2, Bethea, and Mathis all had better years. As a Colts FAN it's my duty to speak up and say its completely undeserved.

I kinda figured u were saying the DE position in the AFC is laughable... Not that your dissing on freeney. Which I'm not sure why someone would use the DE position as their main argument against using AFC DE's in the AFC probowl.... but anyways.

[IndyTrav]

These take in consistency and he's been very consistent over the course of his career. Plus, he'll retire in 3 years which means he'll be eligible in 8 years. Im not saying he's going to get in, but theres a good possibility he does. He's not getting in. His 'consistency' won't help the cause. You and I have already listed 5 DE alone that will be going in ahead of him from just this decade. With out taking into account pass rush specialists(OLB) or ANY other Def position. At this point in time there are an EASY 25 defensive players who are going in. Lets say they elect 3 a year, which is a massive stretch, thats over 8 years, without taking into consideration players that will be waiting, have waited, soon to retire, etc.

Drew Brees passed the ball much more than PM ever did. Jimmy was also out on 90% of the plays. He's gotten more opportunities to catch the ball. Although Jimmy may be a great receiving TE, Dallas is the better overall TE. His blocking skills are good, whether you like it or not. Dallas last healthy year he was 25% of Mannings completions, 24% of his yards, 30% of his TDs. Jimmy this year is 20% of Brees completions, 23% yards. 24% of his TDs. ...I like Dallas, but he's been in the league 9 years and has gone over 650yards twice.

Those numbers are good for a number 1 guy. I'm just saying that when Reggie Wayne leaves, he will take over his #1 spot, and he should do nice job . Look at how he's done this year with Orlovsky/Painter.

I don't dislike Garcon, and yes if Reggie leaves he'll be written in as a #1, but that doesn't make him one. This year with Orlovsky/Painter he's put up 45% of his yards and 100% of his TDs in 3 games.....No #1 has splits like that...