NFL.com adds asterisk next to Tom Brady's name

[Gramz]

What does the taping have to do with inflation of footballs anymore than PEDs?

Well, nothing. It's not so much about repeating a same offense, it is about repeating the act of breaking the rules.

[dynasty13]

Well, nothing. It's not so much about repeating a same offense, it is about repeating the act of breaking the rules.

 

So...question. If a player on the Colts roster gets arrested for DUI in say...8 years, should he be suspended for the entire year because Irsay's situation was 'a warning'???

[Shane Bond]

The pats did not violate the rules, happy now? 

Ok. On that case, why do you think the punishment should be lesser?. It should be none, isnt it?.

[Yehoodi]

Well, nothing. It's not so much about repeating a same offense, it is about repeating the act of breaking the rules.

 

I hear you 100%.  So if the Pats have a player that uses PEDs in 2015 are we going to lose him for 4 games and then a 1st round draft pick in 2017?

 

Now had BB been taping signals again, then I would agree with you. But that did not happen. 

 

I would also agree if you had a player using PEDs for a second or third time one might want to stiffen the penalties. 

 

But if a rogue employee decides to take air out of a ball or is told to by a single player to do so, it is not an institutional act, but an act by a single player, like if he broke a rule for PEDs.  If we are not going to dock a team for the acts of its players (like don't dock the pats a 1st round draft pick for a players PEDs usage), then you can not dock them here either.

[Gramz]

So...question. If a player on the Colts roster gets arrested for DUI in say...8 years, should he be suspended for the entire year because Irsay's situation was 'a warning'???

Total different scenario here. A DUI, while certainly an offense to be dealt with within the jurisdiction for where it occurs, it certainly wouldn't be occurring on the playing field or affecting the game. I believe certain players have actually been cut from the Colts for similar actions.

[Gramz]

I hear you 100%. So if the Pats have a player that uses PEDs in 2015 are we going to lose him for 4 games and then a 1st round draft pick in 2017?

Now had BB been taping signals again, then I would agree with you. But that did not happen.

I would also agree if you had a player using PEDs for a second or third time one might want to stiffen the penalties.

But if a rogue employee decides to take air out of a ball or is told to by a single player to do so, it is not an institutional act, but an act by a single player, like if he broke a rule for PEDs. If we are not going to dock a team for the acts of its players (like don't dock the pats a 1st round draft pick for a players PEDs usage), then you can not dock them here either.

First off... no way a rogue person did this on his own free will.

I think Mr. Kraft understood the reasoning, and accepted it, and chose to not fight it.

He earned some respect back from many I'm sure by doing that.

[Gramz]

Double post again. Dang phone

[Yehoodi]

Ok. On that case, why do you think the punishment should be lesser?. It should be none, isnt it?.

 

Yes there should be no fine and the pats awarded a first overall pick in the 2016 draft for being railroaded by a rogue league and by a team that leaked the issue through its mouth piece Kravitz, followed by the rogue league leaking incorrect information to Mortensen (or ESPN doing it on its own) done intentionally to create the media storm that followed that was systematically planned to cause a stain on the pats and have them deal with side issues just before the SB because folks are tired of the pats and bitter that they just beat them and don't like being outsmarted by the pats with Harbaugh being a prime example. 

 

There that is the proper outcome in the situation.  Happy.

 

Anytime you want to discuss your thoughts on what would a good fine would be for, hypothetically speaking, someone who violated the rule regarding the handling of the balls after the same are inspected by the refs, let me know.  

[dynasty13]

Total different scenario here. A DUI, while certainly an offense to be dealt with within the jurisdiction for where it occurs, it certainly wouldn't be occurring on the playing field or affecting the game. I believe certain players have actually been cut from the Colts for similar actions.

 

Interesting. And not that I disagree with you, I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. There's been so much discussion about the integrity of the game, so much so that the action of deflating the footballs itself has taken a back seat to the assumed lying about it in terms of why people believe the punishment was so harsh. In other words, many believe the Patriots were punished so harshly because of the way they reacted and responded to the situation, which doesn't really have anything to do with what happens on the playing field or affecting the game itself in any way. Yet they still punished them as 'repeat offenders' in a way...so why would the same not hold true for other situations?

[Gramz]

Interesting. And not that I disagree with you, I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. There's been so much discussion about the integrity of the game, so much so that the action of deflating the footballs itself has taken a back seat to the assumed lying about it in terms of why people believe the punishment was so harsh. In other words, many believe the Patriots were punished so harshly because of the way they reacted and responded to the situation, which doesn't really have anything to do with what happens on the playing field or affecting the game itself in any way. Yet they still punished them as 'repeat offenders' in a way...so why would the same not hold true for other situations?

I am one of those that believes that. I have said all along that I felt that at least Tom's penalty would have been less if he'd been more cooperative. who really knows for sure.

Quite frankly I'm really sick of all the discussion on it.

For me, I have a real pet peeve about lying and cheating.

Do the right things and you don't need to worry about consequences.

[Shane Bond]

Yes there should be no fine and the pats awarded a first overall pick in the 2016 draft for being railroaded by a rogue league and by a team that leaked the issue through its mouth piece Kravitz, followed by the rogue league leaking incorrect information to Mortensen (or ESPN doing it on its own) done intentionally to create the media storm that followed that was systematically planned to cause a stain on the pats and have them deal with side issues just before the SB because folks are tired of the pats and bitter that they just beat them and don't like being outsmarted by the pats with Harbaugh being a prime example. 

 

There that is the proper outcome in the situation.  Happy.

 

Anytime you want to discuss your thoughts on what would a good fine would be for, hypothetically speaking, someone who violated the rule regarding the handling of the balls after the same are inspected by the refs, let me know.  

I didnt mean to get you all fired up. Its just a topic but i am happy to see you answering them.

 

So, according to you, Pats did not violate any rules and they are framed because league sucks and everyone hates the Pats.

[Yehoodi]

First off... no way a rogue person did this on his own free will.

I think Mr. Kraft understood the reasoning, and accepted it, and chose to not fight it.

He earned some respect back from many I'm sure by doing that.

 

Yah it could of been a rogue employee, namely McNally or Brady.   If the pats did let air out of the balls and brought the psig below 12.5 psig, I am not convinced it would go any higher than Brady.   I am not so sure this is a serious of an issue that Brady would have to check with higher ups.   Again I harken back to my point that no one mentioned anything 2001-2014, so likely is not so serious that Brady would have to get approval from higher ups.  That is my opinion.

 

And as it is a player or lower, it is basically like a PED violation (4 games) or an equipment violation.  As opposed to an institutional violation like pumping in crowd noise, messing with headsets, planting cameras or bugs in opponents locker rooms, taping signals and so on, all of which required at least the actions of the coach and most of them actions by management.  For me, its different in my book.  If a couple of WRs decide to use stickem next year we are going to loose draft picks?  that is crazy.    

 

As for Kraft, he was just as surprise as we fans were at the penalty.  The trouble with Kraft is that he did not want to go all Al Davis on the league.   Its one thing if you lose a 4th rounder or something, but a 1st round draft pick is basically losing a 4 year starter (rookie deal at least), that is very harsh.  Indeed since 1980 there have only been two first round draft picks taken by the league and both by Goodell against the Pats.  If someone can tell me that this crime is worst than any of the crimes in the past 35 years I am all ears.  Again, why this particular act is the worst in the past 35 years.  I am not buying that, sorry, not buying. 

 

I do think Kraft thought the penalty was not going to be as high, especially when the Falcons admitted to pumping in crowd noise for two years and were only docket a 5th rounder.  If the league wanted to suspend Brady and then fine the pats say 250k or 500K then one could understand.  But the draft picks were just too much for many of us.

[Yehoodi]

I didnt mean to get you all fired up. Its just a topic but i am happy to see you answering them.

 

So, according to you, Pats did not violate any rules and they are framed because league sucks and everyone hates the Pats.

 

 

Do you want to give me your thoughts on the fine or not?  You have not done that yet. 

 

I am done with talking about the violation and am interested in talking about a fine for a violation of the rule in question.  Are you interested in talking about a fine or not?

[Shane Bond]

Do you want to give me your thoughts on the fine or not?  You have not done that yet. 

 

I am done with talking about the violation and am interested in talking about a fine for a violation of the rule in question.  Are you interested in talking about a fine or not?

Ok. I believe Pats violated the rules. When i say Pats, its Tom Brady. I don't blame anyone else in this.

 

The fine towards the Pats isnt fair. There shouldn't be any fine and give Pats back the draft pick.

 

However, Tom Brady should have been suspended for a year atleast. Its all on him. Just him.

[jvan1973]

I've heard this a lot...calling the Patriots 'repeat offenders' and that's why the punishment was so ridiculous. But Yehoodi is right, this situation has nothing to do with Spygate...it was a simple equipment violation and it's nonsense that the league included Spygate as part of its justification for discipline.

To pats fans maybe. Everyone else sees a team that thumbs their nose at the rules and think they don't have to follow them. A history of rule violations is certainly relevant.

If a person is arrested and convicted of burglary and is later found guilty of burglary, the judge will certainly take the first case into consideration when handing down a punishment

[Gramz]

[quote name="Yehoodi"

I do think Kraft thought the penalty was not going to be as high, especially when the Falcons admitted to pumping in crowd noise for two years and were only docket a 5th rounder. If the league wanted to suspend Brady and then fine the pats say 250k or 500K then one could understand. But the draft picks were just too much for many of us.

[dynasty13]

To pats fans maybe. Everyone else sees a team that thumbs their nose at the rules and think they don't have to follow them. A history of rule violations is certainly relevant.

If a person is arrested and convicted of burglary and is later found guilty of burglary, the judge will certainly take the first case into consideration when handing down a punishment

 

I'm not sure I follow....if a person is arrested and convicted of burglary and is later found guilty of burglary again, isn't that the same offense? 

 

That's the whole point. I think Yehoodi laid it out pretty well....if this is on Brady, it's his first offense. 

 

Spygate was about Belichick. You're claiming Deflategate is about Brady. If Tom Brady happens to be in a car and the driver get's a speeding ticket, is he going to get a larger ticket if he is then caught for speeding 8 years later?

[Gramz]

One last thing, then im out of this discussion

I believe with my whole being that this is all 100% on Tom Brady.

I was just as surprised as anyone else at the harsh penalty the Pats Organization received. I personally thought it was a little over the top. However, Kraft has accepted it, and is trying to move on.

My opinion is that Tom's punishment fit the crime..

Gramz....out.

[Shane Bond]

One last thing, then im out of this discussion

Gramz....out.

No you are not. You have said that several times already.

[Yehoodi]

Ok. I believe Pats violated the rules. When i say Pats, its Tom Brady. I don't blame anyone else in this.

 

The fine towards the Pats isnt fair. There shouldn't be any fine and give Pats back the draft pick.

 

However, Tom Brady should have been suspended for a year atleast. Its all on him. Just him.

 

I do not agree with a year suspension.  We are going to have disagree with the seriousness of the violation. fair enough

 

As for the pats, I would not be bothered by a fine.  I would be okay with no penalty directed to the pats too.  But at the same time I would not be bother by some level of vicarious liability tickling back to the pats by the misdeeds of their employees, Brady or McNally.   The rule has up to 50k (monetary fine portion) for a violation.  If they wanted to toss a 100k, 250k or 500k fine I would not be bother, perhaps one on the lower end.   

[amfootball]

I'm not sure I follow....if a person is arrested and convicted of burglary and is later found guilty of burglary again, isn't that the same offense? 

 

That's the whole point. I think Yehoodi laid it out pretty well....if this is on Brady, it's his first offense. 

 

Spygate was about Belichick. You're claiming Deflategate is about Brady. If Tom Brady happens to be in a car and the driver get's a speeding ticket, is he going to get a larger ticket if he is then caught for speeding 8 years later?

Of course ball tampering has never ever been put on the QB. Ever. It has always been a team fine or more often than not a warning.

[Yehoodi]

Maybe you just answered your own question. The Falcons "admitted". Got some points for being honest.

 

I know you want to limit your involvement so I will be brief.   Yes you are correct in the cooperating with the league helps and its understandable that the league will want to impose stiffer fines and penalties.   So agreed.

 

But alas, even when we cooperated, like with Spygate, we still loose a 1st rounder.   Falcons - cooperate - two years crown noise - 5th rounder, Pats - cooperate - 7 years taping - 1st rounder.   I guess no one is ever happy.

[Yehoodi]

One last thing, then im out of this discussion

I believe with my whole being that this is all 100% on Tom Brady.

I was just as surprised as anyone else at the harsh penalty the Pats Organization received. I personally thought it was a little over the top. However, Kraft has accepted it, and is trying to move on.

My opinion is that Tom's punishment fit the crime..

Gramz....out.

 

I hear yah.

 

If Brady was behind a systematic knowing violation of the rules over a long period of time and refuse to cooperate then I can understand a 4 game suspension.  Basically a PED type suspension.  Although its not a performance enhancing drug one could make an extrapolation that a ball outside of the specs, either side, could be an enhancer to one's performance.  I may not personally agree with the conclusion but I can clearly understand the reasoning for taking precedent from one rules violation and using for another where, as in this case, there is really is no precedent.   So I completely see your point.

 

Okay, over and out.        

[Shane Bond]

I do not agree with a year suspension. We are going to have disagree with the seriousness of the violation. fair enough

As for the pats, I would not be bothered by a fine. I would be okay with no penalty directed to the pats too. But at the same time I would not be bother by some level of vicarious liability tickling back to the pats by the misdeeds of their employees, Brady or McNally. The rule has up to 50k (monetary fine portion) for a violation. If they wanted to toss a 100k, 250k or 500k fine I would not be bother, perhaps one on the lower end.

Here is my reasoning.

1. Brady violated the rules.

2. He lied with arrogance.

3. He didn't co operate.

As I told you earlier, no need to fine the Pats or those employees.

[Bad Morty]

To pats fans maybe. Everyone else sees a team that thumbs their nose at the rules and think they don't have to follow them. A history of rule violations is certainly relevant.

If a person is arrested and convicted of burglary and is later found guilty of burglary, the judge will certainly take the first case into consideration when handing down a punishment

Everyone else sees a team that wins all the time and is jealous of it. Therefore, they are gleeful like children that a ridiculously harsh and crippling punishment has been handed down for a trifle of an offense. I guess I'm the only person here willing to talk honestly about this issue.

[HOZER]

Everyone else sees a team that wins all the time and is jealous of it. Therefore, they are gleeful like children that a ridiculously harsh and crippling punishment has been handed down for a trifle of an offense. I guess I'm the only person here willing to talk honestly about this issue.

.

Or.... A bunch of *s fans see their team put in their place for cheating and kick scream and deflect like children because they can't just accept that their joke of a team are a bunch of cheaters....if I talked as "honestly" as I'd like to about the issue I would be banned from this forum.

[HOZER]

Interesting. And not that I disagree with you, I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. There's been so much discussion about the integrity of the game, so much so that the action of deflating the footballs itself has taken a back seat to the assumed lying about it in terms of why people believe the punishment was so harsh. In other words, many believe the Patriots were punished so harshly because of the way they reacted and responded to the situation, which doesn't really have anything to do with what happens on the playing field or affecting the game itself in any way. Yet they still punished them as 'repeat offenders' in a way...so why would the same not hold true for other situations?

Why is it so hard to understand?

Brady knowingly broke the rules and tried to cover up, didn't fully cooperate(phone)- suspended 4 games.

Patriots(Kraft) did not fully cooperate with investigation(refused to let suspect be interviewed again)- Draft picks/fine.

The "team," and Belichick were punished for Spy-gate, didn't learn their lesson, so they got hit even harder the second time.

[Bad Morty]

.

Or.... A bunch of *s fans see their team put in their place for cheating and kick scream and deflect like children because they can't just accept that their joke of a team are a bunch of cheaters....if I talked as "honestly" as I'd like to about the issue I would be banned from this forum.

I guess this must be the next best thing to rooting for a team that wins...

[HOZER]

I guess this must be the next best thing to rooting for a team that wins...

Wins*

[dynasty13]

Wins*

 

Honest question here. Do you truly, truly believe that playing with slightly under inflated footballs is why the Patriots have been so good and continue to win?

 

I'm just curious if you actually feel like the team has somehow 'stolen' something from you, because this thing you're doing....sticking asterisks on every Patriot related word is like when a child covers his ears and stomps his feet saying "na na na na na na I cant hear you!" in any discussion. No substance, nothing to add to a conversation, just New England*, Wins*, Champions*, and Cheaters* as some sort of rallying call for all who need to justify how the Patriots could have possibly beaten their team. The Patriots win at home, they win away, they win with over inflated footballs, they win with under inflated footballs. They outscored your team 100-0 in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship Game playing with probably the most legal and precisely measured footballs in NFL history. As much as you guys all seem to want Patriots fans just to admit wrongdoing and take it, you should probably just admit that they are 4-time Champions and they've earned them all through hard work, preparation, and execution...and there's nothing anyone can ever say to take that away from them as players and us as fans.

[amfootball]

Honest question here. Do you truly, truly believe that playing with slightly under inflated footballs is why the Patriots have been so good and continue to win?

 

I'm just curious if you actually feel like the team has somehow 'stolen' something from you, because this thing you're doing....sticking asterisks on every Patriot related word is like when a child covers his ears and stomps his feet saying "na na na na na na I cant hear you!" in any discussion. No substance, nothing to add to a conversation, just New England*, Wins*, Champions*, and Cheaters* as some sort of rallying call for all who need to justify how the Patriots could have possibly beaten their team. The Patriots win at home, they win away, they win with over inflated footballs, they win with under inflated footballs. They outscored your team 100-0 in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship Game playing with probably the most legal and precisely measured footballs in NFL history. As much as you guys all seem to want Patriots fans just to admit wrongdoing and take it, you should probably just admit that they are 4-time Champions and they've earned them all through hard work, preparation, and execution...and there's nothing anyone can ever say to take that away from them as players and us as fans.

I love your thoughts here and agree whole heartedly.... but this is a Colts board and I think it is easier perhaps for them to see the titles as tainted and I get that on one level. But I spend some time on other fan base boards as well and you would be surprised to see your exact sentiments reflected on many of them.

 

All that being said, when I watch professional sports, I never go into thinking I am sure everything here is on the up and up. On the contrary, I expect gamesmanship, teams to try to get away with what they can when they can and of course a league to enforce the rules. As I have stated more than one here, just in the past few seasons of the NLF you have had the Bountygate Saints win it all, the Ravens who were accused of having its star LB spraying deer antler juice so he could perform on the field, and the PED Hawks. And of course this is just the stuff we know about. Just a couple of months ago we had other teams besides the Pats get punished for violating the integrity of the game with fake crowd noise and sideline texting. None of this makes me happy or something that I feel good about but I also know that championships are earned in every sport and as you say 4 Lombardi's and 6 trips to the SB are not something that can be chalked up to cheating but to hard work and execution. If I was going to go around and feel the need to put asterix next to every team that broke a rule and won a title than I would probably stop watching pro sports and pick up another hobby.

[HOZER]

Honest question here. Do you truly, truly believe that playing with slightly under inflated footballs is why the Patriots have been so good and continue to win?

I'm just curious if you actually feel like the team has somehow 'stolen' something from you, because this thing you're doing....sticking asterisks on every Patriot related word is like when a child covers his ears and stomps his feet saying "na na na na na na I cant hear you!" in any discussion. No substance, nothing to add to a conversation, just New England*, Wins*, Champions*, and Cheaters* as some sort of rallying call for all who need to justify how the Patriots could have possibly beaten their team. The Patriots win at home, they win away, they win with over inflated footballs, they win with under inflated footballs. They outscored your team 100-0 in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship Game playing with probably the most legal and precisely measured footballs in NFL history. As much as you guys all seem to want Patriots fans just to admit wrongdoing and take it, you should probably just admit that they are 4-time Champions and they've earned them all through hard work, preparation, and execution...and there's nothing anyone can ever say to take that away from them as players and us as fans.

Answer: yes.....it has probably contributed to their success just as videotaping opposing teams practices/walkthroughs did. It also makes me ask: what else have they been up to? As the *'s have proven......once a cheater.....

I do not tolerate cheaters, it's not "gamesmanship" it's cheating... I spend my hard earned money and take time out of my busy life to watch football, and expect to watch an honest game, not one that has a team and fan base who continuously cheats and that thinks they are above the law/rules. I don't care who or what team you belong to, you cheat, you pay the consequences.

And spare me on your "substance" claim. It has all been discussed, we have all made our feelings known, yet you guys continue to regurgitate the same deflective garbage, and like a child would do, point at someone else and say, "but but but he did it too, no fair, everybody hates us, wah wah wah."

The asterisk will forever be attached to your team, deal with it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Haven't we covered all of this ground before?

 

Looking around.... looking for it...        

 

Trying to find  switch... twitching finger here....

[dynasty13]

Answer: yes.....it has probably contributed to their success just as videotaping opposing teams practices/walkthroughs did. It also makes me ask: what else have they been up to? As the *'s have proven......once a cheater.....

I do not tolerate cheaters, it's not "gamesmanship" it's cheating... I spend my hard earned money and take time out of my busy life to watch football, and expect to watch an honest game, not one that has a team and fan base who continuously cheats and that thinks they are above the law/rules. I don't care who or what team you belong to, you cheat, you pay the consequences.

And spare me on your "substance" claim. It has all been discussed, we have all made our feelings known, yet you guys continue to regurgitate the same deflective garbage, and like a child would do, point at someone else and say, "but but but he did it too, no fair, everybody hates us, wah wah wah."

The asterisk will forever be attached to your team, deal with it.

 

The Patriots did not videotape opposing team's practices and walkthroughs...so right off the bat, I question what information you base your opinions on. I guess we can chalk that one up to yet another example of misinformation being used to form an opinion about something that so many reference incorrectly when trying to make a point. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Closed for business.