Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[DougDew]

In the world we live in, perception is reality. We don't deal in truth and certainly not absolute truths about anything least of all sports and the NFL.

Please.  That sounds like a philosophy that sponsors lying to get out of any situation that you can. 

[Yehoodi]

I would say that if the NFL comes out and agrees with the officials that the balls they removed from the game were under inflated , then a good part of your $64,000 question will be answered . 

 

Yes we will have to wait until all the facts are in.  I hope we get the results of the investigation soon and that the NFL disclosures what it found.  That would be nice.

 

Just the problem that I am having with the situation now is that this deflating thing is not something that been around, nor are there memos telling clubs to watch out about the balls, or teams/players coming out saying "yah that happened to us."    So things are pretty silent on the matter an indication to me that is does not happen much.  And given the fact that all I know is two games in which it happened, both with the same team, makes me wonder that if it might be human intervention, as opposed to a coincidence like change in temperature, it may not be the pats who are doing the mischief.  But time will tell, and again, I just hope we get all the facts that the NFL found.  Should be interesting.

[amfootball]

Speak for yourself.

 

Plenty of things are either true or false. This is one of them.

This isn't about me or you. This IS the reality. That is what I am trying to explain to you. In the bubble there are no absolutes or self evident truths. We don't occupy that kind of world anymore.

[da_pats_troll]

Apparently this happened in November as well. So it seems we're up to 3 footballs now. 

 

If thats true, then the whole, they deflated them (assuming they did) because of the rain loses it meaning. Why deflate in a dome? 

[Yehoodi]

I'll try to answer your question.

 

You are under the assumption that no other team has said anything about this regarding the Patriots. This game is our first public knowledge of such an incident being reported. Nobody knew that there was a complaint in November. It's not a stretch to say that other teams may have reported this as well, just nothing got out to the public.

 

If I was a betting man, I would say that other teams may have taken notice of it, and complained to the league, which is why an issue that would probably be shrugged off as happenstance, is now under a thorough investigation by the league. 

 

I hear yah, time will tell.  Like I mentioned in my last post, the silence is something that bothers me.  Again it is not like we have a memo from the league or others coming out (like GB in Spygate) saying they noticed it too.   Hopefully the NFL will show us all of the cards once they are done with their investigation.

[Dustin]

If thats true, then the whole, they deflated them (assuming they did) because of the rain loses it meaning. Why deflate in a dome? 

 

Still makes it easier to catch/not fumble. 

[Superman]

This isn't about me or you. This IS the reality. That is what I am trying to explain to you. In the bubble there are no absolutes or self evident truths. We don't occupy that kind of world anymore.

 

Please stop trying to explain that to me. I understand what you're saying. 

[DougDew]

Wow...a thread about a childish unprofessional coach possibly coming up with a scheme to deflate footballs is turning into a philosphy discussion. 

 

Go figure...

 

 

[amfootball]

Please stop trying to explain that to me. I understand what you're saying. 

Sorry. I think I might have misread your last post. I didn't mean to come off as condescending just got carried away.

 

I must admit though I do find the communications aspect of this fascinating. I am waiting to see not so much what the league finds or does not find but what they say. This has been a lousy year for them both on and off the field with their "investigations" and handling of delicate situations. This one is a time bomb because it is the Pats and the SB is less than two weeks away. I am betting they are delaying not because they are not done investigating as how long does it really take to inspect balls but because they are getting counsel from their Comm folks on what to say and how to say it.

[DougDew]

Sorry. I think I might have misread your last post. I didn't mean to come off as condescending just got carried away.

 

I must admit though I do find the communications aspect of this fascinating. I am waiting to see not so much what the league finds or does not find but what they say. This has been a lousy year for them both on and off the field with their "investigations" and handling of delicate situations. This one is a time bomb because it is the Pats and the SB is less than two weeks away. I am betting they are delaying not because they are not done investigating as how long does it really take to inspect balls but because they are getting counsel from their Comm folks on what to say and how to say it.

Good point. It wouldn't be hard to just come out and say that there was nothing to it. 

 

But if there was something to it, they would want to figure out a right way to say it and when, like you suggest.  I guess that means the longer there is no news, the worse is more likely.

[da_pats_troll]

Still makes it easier to catch/not fumble. 

 

But the story is a moving target. Next thing, it will be the butler in the hottub with the airpump

[amfootball]

Good point. It wouldn't be hard to just come out and say that there was nothing to it. 

 

But if there was something to it, they would want to figure out a right way to say it and when, like you suggest.  I guess that means the longer there is no news, the worse is more likely.

Actually I think the longer the more likely nothing happened but then they have to try to explain the deflated balls. Actually proving the Pats deflated them is the stickler here. The balls were obviously deflated that they took out of the game so what do you say? You can't say we couldn't prove the Pats did not do it so you have to somehow come up with a plausible reason.

[Superman]

Sorry. I think I might have misread your last post. I didn't mean to come off as condescending just got carried away.

 

I must admit though I do find the communications aspect of this fascinating. I am waiting to see not so much what the league finds or does not find but what they say. This has been a lousy year for them both on and off the field with their "investigations" and handling of delicate situations. This one is a time bomb because it is the Pats and the SB is less than two weeks away. I am betting they are delaying not because they are not done investigating as how long does it really take to inspect balls but because they are getting counsel from their Comm folks on what to say and how to say it.

 

It's not that it's condescending. It's that I disagree. 

 

I look at a lot of things that are widely believed, yet patently false, and I say "that's stupid, people should educate themselves." I don't just accept it as fact, nor do I accept that people accept it as fact. It's false. Perception and reality are sometimes mutually exclusive.

[da_pats_troll]

I'll try to answer your question.

 

You are under the assumption that no other team has said anything about this regarding the Patriots. This game is our first public knowledge of such an incident being reported. Nobody knew that there was a complaint in November. It's not a stretch to say that other teams may have reported this as well, just nothing got out to the public.

 

If I was a betting man, I would say that other teams may have taken notice of it, and complained to the league, which is why an issue that would probably be shrugged off as happenstance, is now under a thorough investigation by the league. 

 

I would think if other teams had made complaints, some reporter would of had that news by now. The source that gave the info to the original reporter probably would of been very happy to supply that info also.  But who knows....

[Yehoodi]

???

 

So you're suggesting that the Colts set the Pats up? 

 

The Colts picked the ball off, said "hey, let's accuse the Pats of deflating balls!!" Then proceeded to deflate balls on their own sideline, so that they could report the deflated balls to the refs? 

 

Seriously?

 

The refs were seen inspecting balls on the field. Balls that came straight from the Pats sideline. So there's not a lot of weight behind your theory already. 

 

It's a really incredible twist, though, I'll give you credit for that.

 

You do realize that the refs took the balls off the field after they were notified by the colts of the deflated balls.

 

The refs were notified at halftime and took the first ball off the field.   Checking the balls by the refs is a way to catch the pats with their pants down but it is also a way to confirm what the colts were complaining about is justified/confirmed (i.e. if the balls in the pats possession where in fact properly inflated or not).

 

Put yourself in the shoes of an NFL employee entrusted with making the decision if what the colts said was correct and that the pats had underinflated balls and you have the following facts:

 

The one ball that the colts handed you was underinflated

The balls your refs checked that were in the custody of the pats were all properly inflated

 

What conclusion do you draw from the fact that the only underinflated ball was the one handed to you by the colts?

 

Checking the other balls is not dispositive that the colts were innocent or that the pats are presumed to be guilty, it was to find out what is going on with the balls in the game.

[Superman]

Actually I think the longer the more likely nothing happened but then they have to try to explain the deflated balls. Actually proving the Pats deflated them is the stickler here. The balls were obviously deflated that they took out of the game so what do you say? You can't say we couldn't prove the Pats did not do it so you have to somehow come up with a plausible reason.

 

They can simply say that the balls were deflated, but there's no evidence that the Pats deflated them, and then move right along.

[amfootball]

It's not that it's condescending. It's that I disagree. 

 

I look at a lot of things that are widely believed, yet patently false, and I say "that's stupid, people should educate themselves." I don't just accept it as fact, nor do I accept that people accept it as fact. It's false. Perception and reality are sometimes mutually exclusive.

The issue is though is you assume you have all the facts to base your reality. You don't. The media does not give them to you or your favorite sports team.

[DougDew]

Actually I think the longer the more likely nothing happened but then they have to try to explain the deflated balls. Actually proving the Pats deflated them is the stickler here. The balls were obviously deflated that they took out of the game so what do you say? You can't say we couldn't prove the Pats did not do it so you have to somehow come up with a plausible reason.

Actually, I wouldn't fault the NFL on this either way.  I'd be surprised is there is really a way to prove it.

 

Bill knows there isn't, that's why he did it.

[amfootball]

They can simply say that the balls were deflated, but there's no evidence that the Pats deflated them, and then move right along.

God, I hope they don't say that.

[da_pats_troll]

Good point. It wouldn't be hard to just come out and say that there was nothing to it. 

 

But if there was something to it, they would want to figure out a right way to say it and when, like you suggest.  I guess that means the longer there is no news, the worse is more likely.

 

Longer is not necessarily bad for the Pats. If they come out with a determination too fast, there will be those that conclude it was simply brushed under the rug. Too long, and there will be those that figure some back room deals were going on. Regardless of the truth of the matter, there will be people making up their mind one way or the other based on how big the tinfoil hat is, and what side of the issue they fall on.

[Superman]

You do realize that the refs took the balls off the field after they were notified by the colts of the deflated balls.

 

The refs were notified at halftime and took the first ball off the field.   Checking the balls by the refs is a way to catch the pats with their pants down but it is also a way to confirm what the colts were complaining about is justified/confirmed (i.e. if the balls in the pats possession where in fact properly inflated or not).

 

Put yourself in the shoes of an NFL employee entrusted with making the decision if what the colts said was correct and that the pats had underinflated balls and you have the following facts:

 

The one ball that the colts handed you was underinflated

The balls your refs checked that were in the custody of the pats were all properly inflated

 

What conclusion do you draw from the fact that the only underinflated ball was the one handed to you by the colts?

 

Checking the other balls is not dispositive that the colts were innocent or that the pats are presumed to be guilty, it was to find out what is going on with the balls in the game.

 

This is what would be called deflection, and/or projection. 

[Superman]

The issue is though is you assume you have all the facts to base your reality. You don't. The media does not give them to you or your favorite sports team.

 

What facts am I missing? 

 

• The Colts tell the league that the balls feel under-inflated
• The league investigates

 

Assuming the league doesn't determine that the Colts tried to set the Pats up, there's no way to flip this back on the Colts.

 

As I initially said, this only reflects on the Patriots.

[DougDew]

Longer is not necessarily bad for the Pats. If they come out with a determination too fast, there will be those that conclude it was simply brushed under the rug. Too long, and there will be those that figure some back room deals were going on. Regardless of the truth of the matter, there will be people making up their mind one way or the other based on how big the tinfoil hat is, and what side of the issue they fall on.

I don't think anybody will think the NFL brushed it under the rug.  Its pretty easy to determine how many balls were deflated... or not. 

 

I think the longer it goes, the more likely the public will think some back room deal has been thought up to circle the wagons for the pats and save the NFL embarrassment, especially if the pats win the SB.

 

This issue is getting twisted into something about where allegiances lie, aided by the shills at espn.  Its not. Its simply about whether or not the balls were deflated by the pats. 

[dw49]

lol. I like poppycock. Because I have never heard of a defensive player making a pick and then saying the ball was kind of flat and that ignite a chain command where the GM is calling the league at halftime. You don't find that to be bizarre and crazy over the top? I am not saying that if the Colts suspected something that they should not make it known but you can't tell me taking a word of a LB who handled one ball on a ridiculously rainy night warranted calling the league??

 

 

BTW... there are conflicting reports on who first thought the ball was soft. One says Jackson and the other says the ball person. I thought I read when this first came out that Jackson was quoted as saying he didn't notice anything with the ball.

 

 

From Kevin Draper...

 

 

The NFL's investigation into whether the Patriots deflated footballs during their AFC Championship Game victory over the Colts was triggered by Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson's second quarter interception, according to reports from both WCVB's Mike Lynch andNewsday's Bob Glauber. Lynch reports that Jackson felt the ball was underinflated and notified the equipment manager, while Glauber says a Colts equipment staffer noticed the supposed underinflation. That set off a cascade of events that eventually reached the league office. Via WCVB:

[da_pats_troll]

I don't think anybody will think the NFL brushed it under the rug.  Its pretty easy to determine how many balls were deflated... or not. 

 

I think the longer it goes, the more likely the public will think some back room deal has been thought up to circle the wagons for the pats and save the NFL embarrassment, especially if the pats win the SB.

 

This issue is getting twisted into something about where allegiances lie, aided by the shills at espn.  Its not. Its simply about whether or not the balls were deflated by the pats. 

 

I totally agree with that. Most reasonable people would. When it comes to football and being a fan of your team however, we all seem to lose our reason, from time to time

[amfootball]

What facts am I missing? 

 

• The Colts tell the league that the balls feel under-inflated
• The league investigates

 

Assuming the league doesn't determine that the Colts tried to set the Pats up, there's no way to flip this back on the Colts.

 

As I initially said, this only reflects on the Patriots.

You really think this thing is/was that simple? There are about 50 shades of gray here. The Colts handled one ball that they felt was deflated. And it was handled by a LB who rarely touches the game balls of other teams. The call was then made at halftime to the league. The refs then pulled multiple balls out of play after half but no one knows why. Balls are pulled all the time from games for being deflated, abnormal or wet. And no one knows how the balls got that way. The weather was a beast as well effecting the ball. At one point in the second half a ball was removed from play and a new ball was put in and again no one knows why. Was a kicking ball put in place by mistake? Was it deflated? Wet? Again, referees discretion.

 

Now the league is investigating. IF nothing is found on the Pats from an accusation stemming from a LB saying one ball is flat I am not sure how you think that does not reflect poorly on the Colts in a game in which they lost 45-7.

[Superman]

You really think this thing is/was that simple? There are about 50 shades of gray here. The Colts handled one ball that they felt was deflated. And it was handled by a LB who rarely touches the game balls of other teams. The call was then made at halftime to the league. The refs then pulled multiple balls out of play after half but no one knows why. Balls are pulled all the time from games for being deflated, abnormal or wet. And no one knows how the balls got that way. The weather was a beast as well effecting the ball. At one point in the second half a ball was removed from play and a new ball was put in and again no one knows why. Was a kicking ball put in place by mistake? Was it deflated? Wet? Again, referees discretion.

 

Now the league is investigating. IF nothing is found on the Pats from an accusation stemming from a LB saying one ball is flat I am not sure how you think that does not reflect poorly on the Colts in a game in which they lost 45-7.

 

Where did anyone say that the Colts LB claimed the ball was under inflated? 

[amfootball]

Where did anyone say that the Colts LB claimed the ball was under inflated? 

From DW49:

From Kevin Draper...

 

 

The NFL's investigation into whether the Patriots deflated footballs during their AFC Championship Game victory over the Colts was triggered by Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson's second quarter interception, according to reports from both WCVB's Mike Lynch andNewsday's Bob Glauber. Lynch reports that Jackson felt the ball was underinflated and notified the equipment manager, while Glauber says a Colts equipment staffer noticed the supposed underinflation. That set off a cascade of events that eventually reached the league office. Via WCVB:

 

Also from ESPN, http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12198323/indianapolis-colts-interception-led-question-whether-new-england-patriots-deflated-balls

[DougDew]

You really think this thing is/was that simple? There are about 50 shades of gray here. The Colts handled one ball that they felt was deflated. And it was handled by a LB who rarely touches the game balls of other teams. The call was then made at halftime to the league. The refs then pulled multiple balls out of play after half but no one knows why. Balls are pulled all the time from games for being deflated, abnormal or wet. And no one knows how the balls got that way. The weather was a beast as well effecting the ball. At one point in the second half a ball was removed from play and a new ball was put in and again no one knows why. Was a kicking ball put in place by mistake? Was it deflated? Wet? Again, referees discretion.

 

Now the league is investigating. IF nothing is found on the Pats from an accusation stemming from a LB saying one ball is flat I am not sure how you think that does not reflect poorly on the Colts in a game in which they lost 45-7.

I think you're stretching.  The game was 14-0 then, and the colts moved the ball and probably should have scored already.  At half time after Grigs called the league...the colts no longer had anything to do with it. 

 

Its not like they started to complain after the game was over, about a ball they touched in the second quarter.

[Yehoodi]

This is what would be called deflection, and/or projection. 

 

Please explain your answer.  I don't follow you.

[Superman]

From DW49:

From Kevin Draper...

 

 

The NFL's investigation into whether the Patriots deflated footballs during their AFC Championship Game victory over the Colts was triggered by Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson's second quarter interception, according to reports from both WCVB's Mike Lynch andNewsday's Bob Glauber. Lynch reports that Jackson felt the ball was underinflated and notified the equipment manager, while Glauber says a Colts equipment staffer noticed the supposed underinflation. That set off a cascade of events that eventually reached the league office. Via WCVB:

 

Also from ESPN, http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12198323/indianapolis-colts-interception-led-question-whether-new-england-patriots-deflated-balls

 

http://www.wthr.com/story/27881499/source-tells-bob-kravitz-that-patriots-may-have-deflated-footballs-against-colts

We did talk to Andrew Luck, and D'Qwell Jackson, who had that interception. They said they did not see a difference with the footballs.

 

http://www.wthr.com/story/27886738/kravitz-and-the-deflategate-investigation-saga-continue

Jackson had an interception but didn't note any difference in the ball.

 

Along with the ESPN story, that adds up to D'Qwell Jackson not having anything to do with the ball being reported. 

 

And really, even if he did, it doesn't matter. It still doesn't reflect on him or the Colts. 

[Superman]

Please explain your answer.  I don't follow you.

 

Your team is being accused of having done something wrong, so you accuse a different team of having done something wrong.

[Yehoodi]

Where did anyone say that the Colts LB claimed the ball was under inflated? 

Adam Schefter said is yesterday.  Apparently you did not read my post.  ;).   Adam Schefter was extremely clear in his statements which I posted in posts tonight and in post #382

[amfootball]

http://www.wthr.com/story/27881499/source-tells-bob-kravitz-that-patriots-may-have-deflated-footballs-against-colts

We did talk to Andrew Luck, and D'Qwell Jackson, who had that interception. They said they did not see a difference with the footballs.

 

http://www.wthr.com/story/27886738/kravitz-and-the-deflategate-investigation-saga-continue

Jackson had an interception but didn't note any difference in the ball.

 

Along with the ESPN story, that adds up to D'Qwell Jackson not having anything to do with the ball being reported. 

 

And really, even if he did, it doesn't matter. It still doesn't reflect on him or the Colts. 

lol. You are proving my point. I have two sources that say it was Jackson and you have two that say it was not Jackson. Yet Grigson made the call to the league at halftime so someone from the Colts told him.

 

Still think this is so simple to figure out? Hint: don't trust the media or your team or the league.

[Superman]

lol. You are proving my point. I have two sources that say it was Jackson and you have two that say it was not Jackson. Yet Grigson made the call to the league at halftime so someone from the Colts told him.

 

Still think this is so simple to figure out? Hint: don't trust the media or your team or the league.

 

No you don't. You have one "source," with no link by the way. The only link you posted was to the ESPN story which says that the staff member reported the under inflated ball, not Jackson. So it's 3 to 1.

 

And what a great closing line, by the way. Don't trust anyone, right?

[DougDew]

Your team is being accused of having done something wrong, so you accuse a different team of having done something wrong.

You should have heard cowherd this morning, he was saying that every team does something like this and that its how the nfl operates.  He pointed to the seahawks aderall abuse and getting dinged for too many physical practices to make his case. 

 

he was basically defending what bellichick and carroll do by comparing it to everybody breaking the speed limit on their way to work.  It was amazing the degree to which he was pretending to be sincerely defending their approach.

[Superman]

Adam Schefter said is yesterday.  Apparently you did not read my post.  ;).   Adam Schefter was extremely clear in his statements which I posted in posts tonight and in post #382

 

Yet D'Qwell Jackson said he didn't notice anything about the ball being under inflated.

[Yehoodi]

Your team is being accused of having done something wrong, so you accuse a different team of having done something wrong.

 

My team is accused of something that was in possession of the accuser.  What part do you not understand.   Are you trolling me or just missing the boat. 

 

My only point was we know very few "facts" but the "facts" that we do know can be looked at in two different ways, that was only my point.  The NFL is going to have a problem on their hands if it is found out that all the balls in the pat's possession were properly inflated, and the only on that was deflated Sunday night is the one that was on the colts sidelines. 

 

I noticed you ducked my question on this manner. 

[Superman]

You should have heard cowherd this morning, he was saying that every team does something like this and that its how the nfl operates.  He pointed to the seahawks aderall abuse and getting dinged for too many physical practices to make his case. 

 

he was basically defending what bellichick and carroll do by comparing it to everybody breaking the speed limit on their way to work.  It was amazing the degree to which he was pretending to be sincerely defending their approach.

 

He's a Pats fan. Not surprising.

[weslo1812]

No Susie, the refs most certainly could have stopped the game. They were handling the ball the entire game whereas the Colts LB had his hands on one ball and as a defensive player he rarely handles the ball to begin with.

It is interesting that this always happens to the Pats, isn't it? And it always seems to be their opponent's whom they have just beat that seem to raise these accusations whether it was Harbaugh last week on the legal formations or now this week with the air of the ball.

All I know is this. IF this turns out to be nothing, it will be a bad, bad look for your organization.

How will it be a bad bad look on the Colts???? Because they brought it to the attention of the league???? Thats a horrible thing to do? Is that dishonerable? If they had a suspicion, they have every right to bring it up and see what the league says. That last statement of yours us quite foolish to be honest. Laughable!!! It's gonna look a WHOLE lot worse on you guys if something does come from it...