What Players do you think were a bust that Grigs brought in?

[Dustin]

To me, a one year contract for a fill-in guy doesn't qualify as a bust. A late round pick traded for a veteran player to stand in for a year is the same.

"Bust" should be reserved for a player that is taken high in the draft, or is given a sizable contract, and then completely fails to live up to his contract or draft status. And even then, it's overused as fans rush to conclusions on players before they've had a reasonable chance to develop and/or perform.

Satele is a signing that hasn't worked out; I wouldn't call him a bust, because we didn't give him that big of a contract. DHB is a signing that didn't work out, but he was a one year signing on a "prove it" contract; same with Bradshaw. David Reed, Mario Harvey, etc., low level signings that were mostly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, not highly paid, not difficult to replace.

John Boyett isn't a bust; he was a 6th rounder, and his release had nothing to do with his ability on the field, it was about his poor judgment off the field. Justice Cunningham was the last drafted player; there's a reason they call that guy Mr. Irrelevant.

I could go on. My point is just that, to me, the word bust should be reserved for players that come in with high expectations -- on the basis of what it took to acquire them -- and fall far short of fulfilling those expectations. And that label really can't be properly applied for at least couple seasons, under typical circumstances.

 

Disagree with Satele. He's the 10th highest paid center in the NFL, dude is definitely a bust. 

[Superman]

Disagree with Satele. He's the 10th highest paid center in the NFL, dude is definitely a bust.

 

He's actually 11th, but I don't think his rank among other players is all that important. He didn't get a big contract. And part of the reason he's ranked so high is because of how many really good centers are still on their rookie contracts. There's a huge divide between the top paid guys like Kalil and Mangold at $8m/year, and Satele at $3.6m/year. 

 

He hasn't been a good player for us, but I don't think his contract is big enough to qualify for bust. Doesn't really matter; everyone agrees that he's one of the worst players Grigson has brought in. I just disagree with the use of the word "bust" in this case.

[Smonroe]

Yeah, Richardson qualifies for sure. I think he'll play better next year, but we overpaid for sure.

No doubt we overpaid, but that doesn't make him a bust. Not if he has a good year.

Unless you're counting busts based on one year. Which is silly IMHO.

[NewColtsFan]

Satele hasn't worked out.    I get it.

 

But the Colts needed a center and Satele was the highest rated center who we could afford.   Remember Salary Cap Hell?!?

 

We had limitations and Satele was coming off a good year by anyone's grading system.    Hey, sometimes a good idea doesn't work out.    This is one of them.

 

I'm still curious why we gave away Shipley to Baltimore for a 7?   And why Holmes barely saw the field all year at any position?     Without an explanation,  people's immaginations runaway...

[Superman]

No doubt we overpaid, but that doesn't make him a bust. Not if he has a good year.

Unless you're counting busts based on one year. Which is silly IMHO.

 

Qualifies for consideration as a bad move by Grigson. Not a bust, yet. 

[Superman]

I know some would say McGlynn was a better center but, IMO, that's not true.  McGlynn was a better center than guard but Satele is still a better center than McGlynn.

 

You've said this before, and it stands out to me every time. To me, the line played better with McGlynn at center, and that's what's most important. Maybe you think there are other factors that contributed to that?

 

What I'd really like to know, though, is what you think should be done to fix the offensive line. What moves do you think would have the biggest impact right away?

[ColtJ82]

Keep in mind a lot of guys were brought in out of pure necessity.  I don't think we would really want Satele to be our future C, but he was the best option as a stopgap.  So to say those guys were busts might look a little unfair on Grigson since he may not have had much choice.

Thank you for saying this. I don't think McGlynn could be considered a bust. He was pulled from the scrap heap. The expectations were never high enough to be considered a bust. We needed an OG....he was available and familiar to Grigson. Satele may be considered a bust....he was probably considered the best Center available.

 

I kind of feel the same way about DHB. I don't think a guy signed to a 1 year deal at that salary can be considered a bust. He had low expectations, but he didn't really even live up to those......can't really say bust. 

 

I'm not necessarily sure anyone can be considered a bust at this point. It was the first year in the system for a lot of guys. I don't think you can even really get a good evaluation until at least midway through the 2nd season. Richardson is entering a make or break year.....may end up being a bust, but I hope not.

With the exception of Landry and Cherilus, the contracts are very favorably structured. Yes, we paid them more money up front to get them here. However, it gave us flexibility in the 2nd and 3rd years of those deals. I thought they were brilliantly structured. No one broke the bank, we have made the playoffs the last 2 years, and we aren't in Salary Cap purgatory. Those deals didn't cause us to miss out on anyway we could have signed otherwise. 

 

Just my opinions.

[Dustin]

You've said this before, and it stands out to me every time. To me, the line played better with McGlynn at center, and that's what's most important. Maybe you think there are other factors that contributed to that?

 

What I'd really like to know, though, is what you think should be done to fix the offensive line. What moves do you think would have the biggest impact right away?

 

The line plays better when McGlynn is at center because McGlynn isn't playing guard and somebody better than him usually is (Reitz, Nixon, ect...) 

[Superman]

The line plays better when McGlynn is at center because McGlynn isn't playing guard and somebody better than him usually is (Reitz, Nixon, ect...) 

 

So it's a net positive overall, though not really better at center. At least, according to Coffee. I think McGlynn is better at center than Satele, particularly in the run game. 

[Smonroe]

The line plays better when McGlynn is at center because McGlynn isn't playing guard and somebody better than him usually is (Reitz, Nixon, ect...)

This is true. Having two bad players next to each other, and a rookie at the other G, it's amazing Luck survived the season.

I know some people want another ILB, but IMO if we get a really good FA C and draft another G for depth (assuming Thomas is back), our O can set the tone. Dominate on offense and the D doesn't have to be much better than last season.

[Coffeedrinker]

You've said this before, and it stands out to me every time. To me, the line played better with McGlynn at center, and that's what's most important. Maybe you think there are other factors that contributed to that?

 

What I'd really like to know, though, is what you think should be done to fix the offensive line. What moves do you think would have the biggest impact right away?

Two things.  I think the combination of McGlynn and Satele was horrible and whenever one was out the line played better.  I think mCGlynn is a better run blocker but I think Satele is better at making the correct line calls (that is based on it seemed there was a lot more pressure on Luck when it was McGlynn at center vs Satele at center and Nixon or Link at guard) and I attribute that to better line calls so the lineman were better position to handle what the defense did.

 

As far as fixing the line.  That is tough, I think if Thomas and Thornton were the starting guards in 2014 the line will look much improved even if Satele is at center.  I think if they were to get a center like Mack and Thomas and Thornton are the starting guards the line would be a top 10 line.  The bad thing outide of Mack and De La Puenta the other centers available in FA are either old or question marks like Satele. I also think there is a couple of centers in the draft that could come in and be day 1 starters.  I also don't think the team can depend on Thomas being a full year starter.

 

So taking all that into account and the fact that we as fans don't know what Homes brings to the table as a center.  I would release McGlynn and Satele, sign a couple of second tiered guards (assuming they are available I would sign Lauvuo and Pollack, if Lauvuo gets signed  by another team then I would look at Wade Smith as reliable back-ups if Thomas goes down) and then draft Tyler Larsen (who, IMO, is the most NFL ready center in the draft) and let Larsen and Holmes batte it out for starting center.  So that would leave the Colts with Two young centes, Thomas/Thornton as starting guards with the best of Pollack, Lauvuo (or Smith), Nix and Reitz as the back-ups.  I think the Colts are looking good at tackle, depth is a concern but you have to have some questions at depth at some positions.  If Thomas plays an entire season then it's a bonus but I think he could be a good guard for the Colts.

[Superman]

This is true. Having two bad players next to each other, and a rookie at the other G, it's amazing Luck survived the season.

I know some people want another ILB, but IMO if we get a really good FA C and draft another G for depth (assuming Thomas is back), our O can set the tone. Dominate on offense and the D doesn't have to be much better than last season.

 

I don't see why we can't do both. I think we SHOULD do both, one way or the other.

[Superman]

Two things.  I think the combination of McGlynn and Satele was horrible and whenever one was out the line played better.  I think mCGlynn is a better run blocker but I think Satele is better at making the correct line calls (that is based on it seemed there was a lot more pressure on Luck when it was McGlynn at center vs Satele at center and Nixon or Link at guard) and I attribute that to better line calls so the lineman were better position to handle what the defense did.

 

As far as fixing the line.  That is tough, I think if Thomas and Thornton were the starting guards in 2014 the line will look much improved even if Satele is at center.  I think if they were to get a center like Mack and Thomas and Thornton are the starting guards the line would be a top 10 line.  The bad thing outide of Mack and De La Puenta the other centers available in FA are either old or question marks like Satele. I also think there is a couple of centers in the draft that could come in and be day 1 starters.  I also don't think the team can depend on Thomas being a full year starter.

 

So taking all that into account and the fact that we as fans don't know what Homes brings to the table as a center.  I would release McGlynn and Satele, sign a couple of second tiered guards (assuming they are available I would sign Lauvuo and Pollack, if Lauvuo gets signed  by another team then I would look at Wade Smith as reliable back-ups if Thomas goes down) and then draft Tyler Larsen (who, IMO, is the most NFL ready center in the draft) and let Larsen and Holmes batte it out for starting center.  So that would leave the Colts with Two young centes, Thomas/Thornton as starting guards with the best of Pollack, Lauvuo (or Smith), Nix and Reitz as the back-ups.  I think the Colts are looking good at tackle, depth is a concern but you have to have some questions at depth at some positions.  If Thomas plays an entire season then it's a bonus but I think he could be a good guard for the Colts.

 

Good thoughts. We obviously agree on the bottom line -- both Satele and McGlynn need to go. We also need depth at guard, given Thomas' uncertain situation. And no one knows much about Holmes, so I'm nervous about projecting him as the starter.

 

You left Evan Deitrich-Smith out of your list; oversight, or omission?

[Coffeedrinker]

Good thoughts. We obviously agree on the bottom line -- both Satele and McGlynn need to go. We also need depth at guard, given Thomas' uncertain situation. And no one knows much about Holmes, so I'm nervous about projecting him as the starter.

 

You left Evan Deitrich-Smith out of your list; oversight, or omission?

I guess omission.  I think he will be signed by the Pack before FA starts.  I think Mack will be as well but with a new coaching staff you just never know.

[Smonroe]

I guess omission.  I think he will be signed by the Pack before FA starts.  I think Mack will be as well but with a new coaching staff you just never know.

It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I think we have a shot at Mack. The Browns won't tag him since they'd have to pay him like a LT. We have Chud, a bright future, and our owner is the good kind of crazy.

I'm all for overpaying a C like him, then adding depth at G.

[Coffeedrinker]

It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I think we have a shot at Mack. The Browns won't tag him since they'd have to pay him like a LT. We have Chud, a bright future, and our owner is the good kind of crazy.

I'm all for overpaying a C like him, then adding depth at G.

I think it's a possibility.  But I think, if I was a new coach of a team and I was going to try and draft a franchise QB and I had a young, all pro center... he would be my top priority

[dgambill]

I don't consider anyone a bust. I do think Satele has played well under expectations and while the bar wasn't set too high I think DHB didn't achieve what we were hoping for....even though he provided great blocking on the outside.

 

Players I think this year that have a lot to prove would be:

 

**Richardson

Toler

Landry

Thomas

 

others that probably could do more to earn their money or status

RJF

Walden

Werner

 

Players that he has brought in that have exceeded expectations or meeting

Luck

Davis

Butler

Hilton

Allen

Fleener

Chapman

Brazill

Redding

Freeman

Ballard

Cherilus

Mcnary

 

As you can see we've gotten value out of most of Grigson's signings/moves. That said there is still room for some to raise their game and a couple like Richardson, Toler, Thomas who we invested a great deal in who need to really bounce back. It sucks not having a first rd pick...but Trent really needs to shine to make up for that...and if he can be special...we have the opportunity to take the offense to the next level. That is why to me it is really important to fix the interior line to get the most bang for our buck in trading for him....else its a wasted trade if we don't invest in maximizing his and Andrew's talents by improving the OL.

[Smonroe]

I think it's a possibility.  But I think, if I was a new coach of a team and I was going to try and draft a franchise QB and I had a young, all pro center... he would be my top priority

They have the cap space to overpay him. The question is - does Mack want to stay there? With the dysfunctional owner, the history of failure, and their QB transitions, he may have had enough. Does he really want to snap to another rookie? How many QBs has he snapped to in 5 years? I'm guessing 10, it may be more.

He'll get plenty wherever he ends up, so how vested is he in being a Brown? I really don't know much about him in that regard.

[GoColts8818]

Any of the ones he's released since bringing them in.

[Thewholefnshow28]

This is true. Having two bad players next to each other, and a rookie at the other G, it's amazing Luck survived the season.

I know some people want another ILB, but IMO if we get a really good FA C and draft another G for depth (assuming Thomas is back), our O can set the tone. Dominate on offense and the D doesn't have to be much better than last season.

 

So start down the road that we did during the Peyton era?  We saw what happened when we start to neglect the defense and let the offense "dominate." If we are going to take the narrow view where we can only improve one side it should be the opposite of what you suggested.  Offensively we are a couple lineman away and healthy players returning from being really good.  Defensively we need help at all three levels of the defense.

 

Ideally we need to upgrade at guard and center and then feed the monster that can be our defense.  Do not get me wrong the offense cannot be neglected at the expense of the defense either.  We need to continue to stay balanced and not top the scale to either side.  

 

We just have to avoid being put in the situation were one side has to play perfect to get wins because the other side has been neglected.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Has to be Satele because his position is so important.

[DougDew]

None on the list are busts.  Considering most of the more frequently criticized FA's got little guaranteed money, they played up to their contracts quite well, IMO.

 

Toler was hurt, so I wouldn't consider that worthy of bust label after one season.  Landry was hurt but didn't play that well when not, but I would still not say "bust" after just one season. 

 

Same with Richardson, not after one season.