Single-season TD pass record questions

[jvan1973]

Like I said everyone has an opinion. If you google the 2007 season you will see football expert after football expert call it the best season by a QB and team of all time. It was that season that was brought up when Rodgers was trying to go undefeated and break the 50 TDs in 2011. Not Marino and not Manning.

And of course Manning this year is being compared to that season as well.

that will change in a couple weeks

[amfootball]

I think you're putting extra on it at this point. I said earlier that Brady's 2007 was spectacular, but it wasn't ground breaking. The Patriots had been using that style of offense since 2005, as a matter of fact. They just dramatically upgraded their weapons in 2007, then went into "Screw the World" mode once the Spygate stuff happened. 

Just responding to Jvan.

[amfootball]

that will change in a couple weeks

The TD record, not the season. Manning lost that chance to equal/surpass the 2007 Pats when the Colts beat him.

[jvan1973]

The TD record, not the season. Manning lost that chance to equal/surpass the 2007 Pats when the Colts beat him.

the 07 season is a team accomplishment, not an individual. Plus Mannings team still has a chance to win the superbowl

[amfootball]

the 07 season is a team accomplishment, not an individual. Plus Mannings team still has a chance to win the superbowl

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

[corgi]

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

16-3 + Superbowl Win + Passing records > 2007 Patriots.   Keep in mind I dislike the Broncos more than the Patriots.

[Superman]

Just responding to Jvan.

 

So that excuses your hyperbole? 

[Superman]

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

 

Are you kidding me? From someone who spends so much time talking about how championships are the most important thing, this is madness.

[jvan1973]

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

you keep telling yourself that

[Moose Of Woe]

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

Did you just...seriously say that 18-1 which was a colossal failure is better than 16-3 including a SB win?

 

I'm not saying Denver is going to win the Superbowl. I don't think they will since all they have is an offense while the other two aspects of the team blow. Not to mention a joke of a coaching staff.

 

But yeah...that's just...I don't even...

[amfootball]

Are you kidding me? From someone who spends so much time talking about how championships are the most important thing, this is madness.

What!? All the seasons we are discussing did not have Super Bowl wins. The 1984 Fins, 2004 Colts or 2011 Packers. Of course the 2007 Pats and 1984 Fins at least made the Super Bowl and the 2007 Pats got to 18-0.

[jvan1973]

What!? All the seasons we are discussing did not have Super Bowl wins. The 1984 Fins, 2004 Colts or 2011 Packers. Of course the 2007 Pats and 1984 Fins at least made the Super Bowl and the 2007 Pats got to 18-0.

2013 broncos still have a chance to win the superbowl. That's what everyone but you seems to realize

[amfootball]

2013 broncos still have a chance to win the superbowl. That's what everyone but you seems to realize

Yep they sure do. We will see if they can.

[jvan1973]

Yep they sure do. We will see if they can.

Even if they don't Manning will have the records

[amfootball]

Even if they don't Manning will have the records

*some* of the records. The 16-0 is what sets the team apart from every other team and the 315 point differential. There is a reason why the Packers of 2011 were compared to them and not the Fins of 1972. They are the new benchmark for the best season. Only way they get beat is if a team goes 19-0.

[jvan1973]

*some* of the records. The 16-0 is what sets the team apart from every other team and the 315 point differential. There is a reason why the Packers of 2011 were compared to them and not the Fins of 1972. They are the new benchmark for the best season. Only way they get beat is if a team goes 19-0.

in your mind alone

[amfootball]

in your mind alone

Sure that is why SI named them the team of the decade in 2000 over all the other teams that won SBs that decade, http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2009/12/sicom_names_pat.html

[jvan1973]

Sure that is why SI named them the team of the decade in 2000 over all the other teams that won SBs that decade, http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2009/12/sicom_names_pat.html

Team, not individual.

Manning takes his td title back this week.

[amfootball]

Team, not individual.

Manning takes his td title back this week.

But that is what we are discussing, the team. That is the context it will be put into. Manning is the QB of the 2013 Broncos who is considered to have better talent then his Colts teams so he is not doing it by himself either. Far from it.

[Yehoodi]

Team, not individual.

Manning takes his td title back this week.

 

I thought you were the one that brought up the SB into the equation . . . most around think that is a team accomplished . . . but what ever . . .

 

Yes Manning is in a great position to break the TD record  . . . he should be able to take care of it this weekend, but we will see . . .

[Superman]

Oh boy. I don't think I want to be involved in this.

[jvan1973]

But that is what we are discussing, the team. That is the context it will be put into. Manning is the QB of the 2013 Broncos who is considered to have better talent then his Colts teams so he is not doing it by himself either. Far from it.

maybe you should take a peek at the thread title. You brought the TEAM aspect in, not me.

[amfootball]

Oh boy. I don't think I want to be involved in this.

Hey, how come you never post this.   I just noticed it today and thought of you.

[amfootball]

maybe you should take a peek at the thread title. You brought the TEAM aspect in, not me.

Sure the Op asked about QBs and I had said way back that I think any QB that throws 40 or 50 TDs is having a great season. I would not rank them in any order as they are all superb. But if we are going to compare the seasons then we have to look at the teams and what the QBs did beyond just throwing the TDs.

[Superman]

Hey, how come you never post this.   I just noticed it today and thought of you.

 

I prefer to let others use it in my honor.

 

;)

[amfootball]

I prefer to let others use it in my honor.

 

;)

Ha. That makes sense. I like your new avatar too. Lois Lane was never the prettiest girl but I always liked her with Superman.

[Superman]

Ha. That makes sense. I like your new avatar too. Lois Lane was never the prettiest girl but I always liked her with Superman.

 

[amfootball]

I think she is pretty. Just not "Brady" pretty. I am sure James would agree with me.  ;)

[Yehoodi]

Most TD passes - single season - NFL - all time

 

1. Tom Brady (2007) 50 - age 30

2. Peyton Manning (2004) 49 - age 28

3. Dan Marino (1984) 48 -  age 23

4. Peyton Manning (2013) - 47 -age 37

5. Drew Brees (2011) - 46 - age 32

 

6. Aaron Rodgers (2011) - 45 - age 28

7. Dan Marino (1986) - 44 - age 25

8. Drew Brees (2012) - 43 - age 33

9. Matthew Stafford (2011) - 41 - age 23

10. Kurt Warner (1999) - 41 - age 28

 

 

..Some things come to mind...your comments are welcome....

 

I believe Peyton Manning will tie or pass Brady's record Sunday but ...

 

. How many TDs would Manning have to throw to equal what Dan Marino did in another era..with old school rules...when it was much tougher to pile up TD passes?

 

..and wasnt Dan Marino...in his 20s...really the best ever?? Not greatest because no SBs? But best?

 

* Do Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers (and Denver-Manning) deserve more credit because they rolled up these totals out doors in colder weather (Denver is not as cold as Green Bay or Boston) cities?

 

* Could Matthew Stafford throw 60 indoors if that team ever matures?

 

*Is Peyton throwing 51 TDs (or more) outdoors at age 37 the greatest single season ever for a QB because of his age and his comeback

 

* Did every NFL team really pass on Kurt Warner?

 

* Can anybody average 4 TD passé a game (total of 64)?

 

it should be a fun last too games to watch to see if Manning can break the record  . . .

 

Don't have much time but will as a few quick thoughts on to your points and in no direct order just bulleting pointing my thoughts . . . when we look at all of these great seasons we need to come to a decision of how we analyze something and stick to it and be consistent . . . we can not state a standard then take the opposite view because now our guy benefits from it . . .  

 

Overall TDs:  for me this is just as important as the amount of passing TDs, especially when we are only talking about the difference in a few passing TDs, I know in 2004 and 2011 the amount of rushing TD was low below 12 thereabout (too lazy to relook them up) . . . not to say that the QBs "stole" TDs with play action pass from the 1 yard line, but as luck would have it (a WR breaks it for a TD as opposed to getting knocked out at the 1 thereby the team will run it in, or perhaps a RB gets a TD from the 4 yard line (preventing the QB from attempting a pass on the next play)) and playing calling too some QB benefit from a different set of circumstances. . . . 1984, 2007 and now 2013 (with the broncos at 16 to date) the team not only had/have a high number of passing TD, but also had a high/normal season number of rushing TDs . . . so its not like I am saying the passing selfishly steals TDs, but circumstance which could include favorable play calling and broken plays by the WR (add TDs) and by a RB (subtract TDs) can skew the numbers and one needs to step back and look at it . . .

 

Games played/conditions:  we all know that Manning did not play in most of the last game in 2004 (not sure what Marino did in 1984) and Rodgers sat in 2011 so there is a loss here due to circumstances and team philosophy . . . however what is forgotten about is conditions which can be a factor if the team decides not to cover its stadium . . . in 2007 in December against the Jets came to Foxboro and we had a nor'easter cold, high winds, rains and so on . . .the offenses were grounded that day . . . there were only three TDs scored that day, one was a "pick 6" by Eugene Wilson totaling 5 yards, and two blocked punts one resulting in a jets TD and another resulting in the ball at the jets 3 and the pats ran two run plays for Maroney who punched it in on the second try, remember play calling . . . Brady did play in the last game which was extra, but the team was more concerned about 16-0 . . .so he gained an extra game but at the same time had to play in a nor'easter against the Jets. . .   

 

High scoring and when/defense: in both 2004 and 2007 the colts and Pats got up early on teams with pats doing it more so than the colts . . .both teams also had big leads late in games in which the game was past the point of no return, they also took out their starting QB, and contrary to the local natives on this board, the back up QBs for the two teams played about the same amount of time, possession and games through the first 15 games, again folks we need to be consistent, honest and sincere about our principles and apply the same standard . . . both teams however had their QB in the game for three possessions each that might be viewed as being in the game beyond the point of no return . . . I don't know the numbers for Brees and Rogers but I do remember at least a game or two, again I am too lazy to spend time to fine out the exact numbers they were in past the point of no return in their season

 

so far I can't think of a game in which Manning was in past the point of no return . . .however one caveat that comes to play is the defense and when you score . . . manning has been able to play in almost all of the games, I think all but one he has played the entire game . . .  so if your defense keeps the game close and/or you don't score much early, you get to stay in games later than other teams would be sitting their starters and/or running long drives to shorten the game and possessions . . . so on one hand the 2013 manning has not been in games past the point no return, but circumstances have allowed him to be in late to garner more TDs, a good example is week one, if the broncos are up by three scores and not two late in the game, manning is not in the game to get his 7th TD and so . . . either way the circumstances in these two paragraphs can help a player gained TDs and each season must be looked as to see how many of this exist and can be accounted for in looking at the season as a whole . . .

 

Rules: this really only applies to 1984 as all of the other seasons are post 2004 . . . and this is self explanatory . . .

 

Yards:  I am not totally sold on yards and sometimes if your team is behind a player can get some cheap yards in the 4th qtr and add to his numbers and on the same theme if one is up and has done his job earlier by scoring, there is more rushing in the 4th and thus few opportunities for a QB to get yards even though he has done his job earlier in the game . . .

 

Ints:  I do think Ints are important and the lower the better

 

Winning Records: I do think that the team record is important to the discussion . . . some might think wins are a team accomplishment but so it passing yards, it takes all 11 players to play in unison for things to work on offense, your oline needs to block, WR/TE\/RB need to read the D and get open, the QB needs to throw the ball and WR needs to catch, and can help by taking the ball to the house . . . so the two are intertwined more than some may think or want to recognize . . .

 

Passing Attempts:  I will end here and add more later . . . I am not really sold on pass attempts as invariably they are lost in the point of what happens between the 20s is not so relevant to TDs (that is a check down is a pass attempt but not one intended to be a TD attempt necessarily ), some teams are on the field longer (i.e.  if one QB goes 3& out and the other drives the field the later will have more pass attempts, not really his fault or benefit so to speak). some team have a shorter passing game and thus will have more attempts to move the ball the same distance down field as a longer passing game team. . . yes a few more attempts can benefit in the possibility that the player might take it to the house, like manning's 7th TD against Balt, but for the most part a blanket statement of pass attempt does really matter to me unless one can bring out instances when a receiver unexpectedly broke a 2 yard out on their own 20 for a TD . . . and if there is a disproportional amount of those then we can discuss it . . .

 

pass attempts really might only come into the picture if we look at red zone pass attempts and even then perhaps only ones that were thrown the end zone, but red zone pass attempts can have some value but not a lot . . .

 

However what I will point out regarding pass attempts, is not my view on the matter, but the view of others that pass attempts have some degree of important in trying to qualify a QBs year. . . Indeed in an effort to water down Brady's 2007 season v. manning's 2004 season more than a small handful of some on this board have brought this point up on more than one occasion (and you all know who you are, yah I see you looking at your computer monitor now) and also members of the media have done the same . . . fair enough but I don't agree with them . . . but it will be very, very interesting to see how these same folks view Manning 2013 season . . . indeed, here are the following numbers regarding pass attempts for the seasons in question. . .

 

attempts/tds

 

1984 564/48

2004 497/49

2007 578/50

2011 502/45 rodgers

2011 657/46 brees

2013 580/47 in 14 games  

 

in 14 games in 2013 manning has already thrown for more pass attempts that Brady did in 2007 (and Rodgers and Marino) and is on 2011 brees pace of 40 attempts per game and may end up with around the same about 660ish . . . I will be interested to see how those media person who tried to water down Brady's 2007 season analyze Manning's 2013 season and if they are consistent with their view on pass attempts and how the same qualifies a season . . . I will be eagerly waiting for their response and analysis . . .

 

 

time to go

 

that is for me, just wanted to jot down a few points and will add more later, wow it ended up longer than I thought . . . it is going to be fun to watch the next few weeks . . . and we are going to be having this 1984/2004/2007/2011/2013/and others discussion for some time now . . .

[oldunclemark]

I never mind a QB throwing a1-yard TD pass because a lot of teams (like Denver) are set up that way.

If your QB is a runner..like Cam ....you don't need to throw 1-yard TDs.

 

..The Passer rating includes yards per attempt and not yards per completion>

Why?

 

Yards per completion is the more telling stat. 

Some incompletions are intentional throwaways

 

I dont think overall TDs can be factored into the greatest QB season unless its the QB who runs for them like Andrew Luck does.

 

My memory of  Marino in 1984 and Brady in 2007 is the same feeling....They just couldn't be stopped from the opening kick.

 

Marino threw the ball downfield so much./.14 yards per completion,,,,5,084 yards....years before 5,000 was done again and they were 14-2..Brady was 4,806 in pards and 12.8 per ciompletion but his team was 16-0

 

The feeling Manning gives you is that he figures you out as the game goes on...

Denver has trailed a lot this season and they mount passing rallies.

 

 

Marino's numbers slipped (relatively speaking) as he got into his 30s..

Brady and Manning's have obviously increased dramatically after age 30.

 

The encouraging thing about Peyton Manning is that he appears to be getting better with Denver than he was at the end in Indy and with the age of his receivers (other than Wes) and his O-line  it is very possible, barring injury, he will do as well or better in 2014.

[Shane Bond]

 the 2007 Pats got to 18-0.

And Eli happend

[Shane Bond]

Are you kidding me? From someone who spends so much time talking about how championships are the most important thing, this is madness.

You didnt know in AMF - M stands for madness?.

[Shane Bond]

Did you just...seriously say that 18-1 which was a colossal failure is better than 16-3 including a SB win?

 

I'm not saying Denver is going to win the Superbowl. I don't think they will since all they have is an offense while the other two aspects of the team blow. Not to mention a joke of a coaching staff.

 

But yeah...that's just...I don't even...

 

You cant speak truth and logic.

 

Now you are in her blacklist, no more response to you.

[Shane Bond]

 Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. 

 

Superbowl victory is not better than a super bowl failure?.

 

Do you know i stopped watching comedy movies after seeing your posts?. Best part is your posts are free.

[Narcosys]

I hope manning throws 0 TD on Sunday (Due to Fantasy reasons) After that, have fun..

dont you put that curse on me !!

[Narcosys]

Yep, team led by Brady who set the records and had the fourth quarter comebacks. The two are inseparable. Manning can win the super bowl and it still will not compare to 2007. Have to get to 19-0 to beat that team and set the passing records. Rodgers had the best chance at it until KC and then the Giants.

So if manning sets the records and wins the sb, it still wont match?

You realize the broncos are setting like 7 records right. Lets see if i can remember them all. They are all still possible

most passing td

most passing yards

most points in a season

most 1st downs in a season

most overall yards in a season

....

nope cant remember the other two. Will have to hunt my other post later. But if they set half of them, to include td's. Then yes 13 broncos > 07 pats. Im pretty sure they already passed the pats in points, yards, and 1st downs anyways.

Either way to look at it, Manning vs brady or broncos versus pats. Manning and broncos stats are better. Throw a SB in there and you have no legs to stand on.

[The Laughing Man]

Interesting that no one brings up the fact that the Patriots had to play with the pressure of an undefeated season (the thing that the Colts were so terrified of that they threw away their chance at it...as if they believed that certain players on their team couldn't handle it).

 

Also interesting that people bring up the fact that Brady threw 80 more times, only mentioning that he threw 1 more touchdown...but ignore that he threw 2 fewer interceptions.

 

Not sure I expected anything but biased evaluations on these forums, but I was hoping those points would be made. As far as my own assessment goes, I judge their relative levels of impressiveness on the basis of the eye test. For me, Marino '84>Manning '04>Brady '07>Manning '13. Manning's '04 was the best of this era, and really puts this current season to shame. I don't recall him headhunting by throwing an inordinate amount of his total TDs from the goal line, nor do I remember relying so heavily on YAC.

[Shane Bond]

So if manning sets the records and wins the sb, it still wont match?

You realize the broncos are setting like 7 records right. Lets see if i can remember them all. They are all still possible

most passing td

most passing yards

most points in a season

most 1st downs in a season

most overall yards in a season

....

nope cant remember the other two. Will have to hunt my other post later. But if they set half of them, to include td's. Then yes 13 broncos > 07 pats. Im pretty sure they already passed the pats in points, yards, and 1st downs anyways.

Either way to look at it, Manning vs brady or broncos versus pats. Manning and broncos stats are better. Throw a SB in there and you have no legs to stand on.

Too much truth and logic. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Superman

[Shane Bond]

it should be a fun last too games to watch to see if Manning can break the record  . . .

 

Don't have much time but will as a few quick thoughts on to your points and in no direct order just bulleting pointing my thoughts . . . when we look at all of these great seasons we need to come to a decision of how we analyze something and stick to it and be consistent . . . we can not state a standard then take the opposite view because now our guy benefits from it . . .  

 

Overall TDs:  for me this is just as important as the amount of passing TDs, especially when we are only talking about the difference in a few passing TDs, I know in 2004 and 2011 the amount of rushing TD was low below 12 thereabout (too lazy to relook them up) . . . not to say that the QBs "stole" TDs with play action pass from the 1 yard line, but as luck would have it (a WR breaks it for a TD as opposed to getting knocked out at the 1 thereby the team will run it in, or perhaps a RB gets a TD from the 4 yard line (preventing the QB from attempting a pass on the next play)) and playing calling too some QB benefit from a different set of circumstances. . . . 1984, 2007 and now 2013 (with the broncos at 16 to date) the team not only had/have a high number of passing TD, but also had a high/normal season number of rushing TDs . . . so its not like I am saying the passing selfishly steals TDs, but circumstance which could include favorable play calling and broken plays by the WR (add TDs) and by a RB (subtract TDs) can skew the numbers and one needs to step back and look at it . . .

 

Games played/conditions:  we all know that Manning did not play in most of the last game in 2004 (not sure what Marino did in 1984) and Rodgers sat in 2011 so there is a loss here due to circumstances and team philosophy . . . however what is forgotten about is conditions which can be a factor if the team decides not to cover its stadium . . . in 2007 in December against the Jets came to Foxboro and we had a nor'easter cold, high winds, rains and so on . . .the offenses were grounded that day . . . there were only three TDs scored that day, one was a "pick 6" by Eugene Wilson totaling 5 yards, and two blocked punts one resulting in a jets TD and another resulting in the ball at the jets 3 and the pats ran two run plays for Maroney who punched it in on the second try, remember play calling . . . Brady did play in the last game which was extra, but the team was more concerned about 16-0 . . .so he gained an extra game but at the same time had to play in a nor'easter against the Jets. . .   

 

High scoring and when/defense: in both 2004 and 2007 the colts and Pats got up early on teams with pats doing it more so than the colts . . .both teams also had big leads late in games in which the game was past the point of no return, they also took out their starting QB, and contrary to the local natives on this board, the back up QBs for the two teams played about the same amount of time, possession and games through the first 15 games, again folks we need to be consistent, honest and sincere about our principles and apply the same standard . . . both teams however had their QB in the game for three possessions each that might be viewed as being in the game beyond the point of no return . . . I don't know the numbers for Brees and Rogers but I do remember at least a game or two, again I am too lazy to spend time to fine out the exact numbers they were in past the point of no return in their season

 

so far I can't think of a game in which Manning was in past the point of no return . . .however one caveat that comes to play is the defense and when you score . . . manning has been able to play in almost all of the games, I think all but one he has played the entire game . . .  so if your defense keeps the game close and/or you don't score much early, you get to stay in games later than other teams would be sitting their starters and/or running long drives to shorten the game and possessions . . . so on one hand the 2013 manning has not been in games past the point no return, but circumstances have allowed him to be in late to garner more TDs, a good example is week one, if the broncos are up by three scores and not two late in the game, manning is not in the game to get his 7th TD and so . . . either way the circumstances in these two paragraphs can help a player gained TDs and each season must be looked as to see how many of this exist and can be accounted for in looking at the season as a whole . . .

 

Rules: this really only applies to 1984 as all of the other seasons are post 2004 . . . and this is self explanatory . . .

 

Yards:  I am not totally sold on yards and sometimes if your team is behind a player can get some cheap yards in the 4th qtr and add to his numbers and on the same theme if one is up and has done his job earlier by scoring, there is more rushing in the 4th and thus few opportunities for a QB to get yards even though he has done his job earlier in the game . . .

 

Ints:  I do think Ints are important and the lower the better

 

Winning Records: I do think that the team record is important to the discussion . . . some might think wins are a team accomplishment but so it passing yards, it takes all 11 players to play in unison for things to work on offense, your oline needs to block, WR/TE\/RB need to read the D and get open, the QB needs to throw the ball and WR needs to catch, and can help by taking the ball to the house . . . so the two are intertwined more than some may think or want to recognize . . .

 

Passing Attempts:  I will end here and add more later . . . I am not really sold on pass attempts as invariably they are lost in the point of what happens between the 20s is not so relevant to TDs (that is a check down is a pass attempt but not one intended to be a TD attempt necessarily ), some teams are on the field longer (i.e.  if one QB goes 3& out and the other drives the field the later will have more pass attempts, not really his fault or benefit so to speak). some team have a shorter passing game and thus will have more attempts to move the ball the same distance down field as a longer passing game team. . . yes a few more attempts can benefit in the possibility that the player might take it to the house, like manning's 7th TD against Balt, but for the most part a blanket statement of pass attempt does really matter to me unless one can bring out instances when a receiver unexpectedly broke a 2 yard out on their own 20 for a TD . . . and if there is a disproportional amount of those then we can discuss it . . .

 

pass attempts really might only come into the picture if we look at red zone pass attempts and even then perhaps only ones that were thrown the end zone, but red zone pass attempts can have some value but not a lot . . .

 

However what I will point out regarding pass attempts, is not my view on the matter, but the view of others that pass attempts have some degree of important in trying to qualify a QBs year. . . Indeed in an effort to water down Brady's 2007 season v. manning's 2004 season more than a small handful of some on this board have brought this point up on more than one occasion (and you all know who you are, yah I see you looking at your computer monitor now) and also members of the media have done the same . . . fair enough but I don't agree with them . . . but it will be very, very interesting to see how these same folks view Manning 2013 season . . . indeed, here are the following numbers regarding pass attempts for the seasons in question. . .

 

attempts/tds

 

1984 564/48

2004 497/49

2007 578/50

2011 502/45 rodgers

2011 657/46 brees

2013 580/47 in 14 games  

 

in 14 games in 2013 manning has already thrown for more pass attempts that Brady did in 2007 (and Rodgers and Marino) and is on 2011 brees pace of 40 attempts per game and may end up with around the same about 660ish . . . I will be interested to see how those media person who tried to water down Brady's 2007 season analyze Manning's 2013 season and if they are consistent with their view on pass attempts and how the same qualifies a season . . . I will be eagerly waiting for their response and analysis . . .

 

 

time to go

 

that is for me, just wanted to jot down a few points and will add more later, wow it ended up longer than I thought . . . it is going to be fun to watch the next few weeks . . . and we are going to be having this 1984/2004/2007/2011/2013/and others discussion for some time now . . .

Are you competing with JerodMayo for most number of lines in a post?.

[amfootball]

So if manning sets the records and wins the sb, it still wont match?

You realize the broncos are setting like 7 records right. Lets see if i can remember them all. They are all still possible

most passing td

most passing yards

most points in a season

most 1st downs in a season

most overall yards in a season

....

nope cant remember the other two. Will have to hunt my other post later. But if they set half of them, to include td's. Then yes 13 broncos > 07 pats. Im pretty sure they already passed the pats in points, yards, and 1st downs anyways.

Either way to look at it, Manning vs brady or broncos versus pats. Manning and broncos stats are better. Throw a SB in there and you have no legs to stand on.

No. Because the 2007 season was about more than just passing/offensive records which is what I have been saying all along. The TD record, points record, etc were all side notes to the undefeated season until the SB. It is this fact that puts it on a pedestal all its own. If it was just about winning the SB then SI would not have named that team the best of the 2000 decade - above every other team that won the SB that decade. And I think when you look at Manning's season it will be hard to forget that he was not able to beat a decimated Pats team with a 24 point lead at half. That is a huge blemish IMO.