Peyton Manning in Playoff Form Last Night

[Fx Stryker]

Into the wind? Or with it?

They said something along the lines of "Prater was hitting 55 yarders, and with the wind 60 yarders."

[TAPLOOK]

Yeah you are funny

I'm not trying to be. That's exactly what she said when Welker blew the SB. Then they all took a long vacation together. 

[Shane Bond]

I'm not trying to be. That's exactly what she said when Welker blew the SB.

She was not wrong.

[Gramz]

This is what Gramz said:

Gramz, on 25 Nov 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

After the game tying TD, which by the way was thrown into the wind, how Dare Peyton Not recover the Punt and thereby set up a game winning FG for the Pats."

She's implying that after Peyton tied the game, the Patriots then recovered the fumbled punt. That's not true at all.

Hey, Gramz here... and I will speak for myself, if it's okay with you.   I certainly didn't mean to imply that it happened immediately following the tying TD.     Let me re-phrase it, so you might Understand.

 

You were saying how Peyton choked again...  I was pointing out that he orchestrated a game tying drive....which did result in a TD thus,  the tie.  

 

Then came the Overtime.  Neither QB did anything impressive in that  OT.  The game was very close to ending in a tie, when the Punt return team made a HUGE mistake, which set up the Pats for the game Winning FG.   That was Neither Peyton's fault  or to Tom's credit..

[GoPats]

They said something along the lines of "Prater was hitting 55 yarders, and with the wind 60 yarders."

 

Well if that's true, then it would have been about a 56 yarder into a 20-mph wind. I heard Collinsworth say something right before the OT coin flip about Prater booting them WITH the wind... "so you can tell which end he votes for," or something like that.

 

And also, I guess that makes Welker's drop huge-r.

 

Usually I go by kickoffs to gauge how teams will play the wind. I think there was only one touchback when either NE or Denver was kicking toward that end zone (prior to the last Pats drive in regulation). 

[TAPLOOK]

She was not wrong.

No she wasn't. It's only a game and a fun one at that. Last night was classic.

[Superman]

I certainly don't blame Peyton for the loss. But let's face it: he was pedestrian at best last night.

 

This is such a fair post. Manning didn't light the world on fire. Brady played much better, that's for sure. With the exception of the tying drive, Manning didn't look all that impressive. I've been going back and forth in the other thread about how neither QB was dominating the wind, and I stand by that, but Brady did play the better game.

 

I kind of expected that to be the case once the Pats got down early. I expected the Broncos to keep running it; their run game was dominant most of the night, to be honest. I expected the Pats to manufacture some points, somehow, most likely on Brady's back. And I expected the game to be close at the end. I watched the game with friends, one of which is a Pats frontrunner, and he was ready to leave after the first quarter, but I knew better than that. Brady and Belichick are too good, the wind was a huge factor, and anything was possible.

[Fx Stryker]

Well if that's true, then it would have been about a 56 yarder into a 20-mph wind. I heard Collinsworth say something right before the OT coin flip about Prater booting them WITH the wind... "so you can tell which end he votes for," or something like that.

 

And also, I guess that makes Welker's drop huge-r.

 

Usually I go by kickoffs to gauge how teams will play the wind. I think there was only one touchback when either NE or Denver was kicking toward that end zone (prior to the last Pats drive in regulation).

Broncos would have been near the 30 so it was about 47. Very makeable for Prater. If they had the wind the game was over easily even without the catch.

The one thing about the Denver receivers that bothers me is they do not fight for the ball. Especially Decker he gives up every time he is touched and cries for a flag. He just need to catch the ball first and foremost. Forget about the stupid possibility of a flag.

[Bluboy]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-new-england-patriots-tom-brady/

Peyton Manning was in playoff form against the Patriots — and that’s not a good thing

When push came to shove, Manning fell over. Again.

By Mike Foss – November 25, 2013 at 8:05am EST

Today’s big winner: Tom Brady

He did it again. Down 24-0 at halftime, Tom Terrific brought the Patriots back from life support and with the help of a muffed punt, New England stunned the Denver Broncos 34-31. Brady was sublime. 344 yards, three touchdowns, and zero interceptions.

Peyton Manning was terrible. I take that back.

Peyton Manning encapsulated Peyton Manning’s entire career Sunday night. The Broncos dropped 24 unanswered points in the first half. Bloated, stupendous, jaw-dropping numbers. Manning had support from the run game Sunday as well. Knowshon Moreno had 224 yards and a touchdown. Everything seemed perfect.

Then came the second half. When it mattered, Manning folded. 150 yards, two touchdowns, one interception.

He was outplayed by Brady. Plain and simple.

Where does this leave the Broncos? Pretty much in the same place they were before Sunday. Denver takes on Kansas City for the second time in three weeks this Sunday. On a two-game losing streak, the Chiefs could potentially be facing the Broncos without both of their starting outside linebackers. There’s no question that Denver is still in position to not only beat back Kansas City but also take the top seed in the AFC heading into the playoffs.

The questions begin when the pressure starts. When the games matter. Manning’s struggles in the playoffs have been well documented. He has a Super Bowl ring, yes. He’s also been to the playoffs 12 times and is 9-11 lifetime in the postseason. The question has always been whether Manning can step up when it matters.

He did little to dissuade those concerns on Sunday.

 

This article is mostly crap. Peyton didn't cause that last problem on the punt that really lost the game. I blame this one on the coach. He has a 24-0 lead in the third quarter and he went conservative with the wind at the team's back. That is when they should have been going for the kill. They didn't and they let the Pats back in the game. Peyton was still in position to win that game until that last punt by NE was muffed..... :36dancing:

[Gramz]

And so did Brady, but here is the difference. Without a ST gaffe the game had two outcomes 1) the Broncos win or 2) it was going to be a tie. There was less than 3 minutes left and the Patriots were not going to see the ball again. So if you want to say Peyton failed then so did Brady because he didn't win that game in OT, and wasn't getting another chance to. It was a great game that unfortunately came down to an anticlimactic finish.

Yes, This, exactly.   

[Moose Of Woe]

Except that he had multiple possessions in OT, not just one. Did you watch the game?

So did Tom. He had two, Manning had two, and neither put away the game.

 

Although it seems people are singing his praises for his "clutch" game winning punt. Brady had a good night overall, but did nothing in the last 7+ minutes of regulation and all of OT. Doesn't sound very "clutch" to me. Manning had a mediocre at best night and simply handed it off/Trent Dilfer mode. With Moreno running like he was I would hand it off, too. Too bad all the other backs suck and blew everything good Moreno did.

 

The receivers weren't exactly stellar, either. If Peyton "choked" in OT then so did Brady against the Giants because both missed a pass to Welker on third down  that was dropped -only Peyton actually threw a good pass. That would have pretty well sealed it. I'm sure the double standard applies as always.

 

Special teams sucked all night and, ultimately were the biggest factor in the outcome of the game along with turnovers. 4 turnovers VS 3. Manning had one so he gets part of the blame on it. Tom almost had two including a pick six that was dropped by Woodyard, but he lucked out. Neither team can afford to commit that many turnovers and expect to win a game, the Broncos just happened to make one more than the Patriots did and bailed them out.

 

I'll say this - I'd rather the Broncos straight up lose on some boneheaded play than get jobbed by the refs. Or both like the AFC Ravens title game. Steratore did a pretty decent job overall aside from one play that Brady was chewing him out on that should have been flagged. I'd say he made it up to Brady by not flagging him directly after his tantrum.

[dynasty13]

And so did Brady, but here is the difference. Without a ST gaffe the game had two outcomes 1) the Broncos win or 2) it was going to be a tie. There was less than 3 minutes left and the Patriots were not going to see the ball again. So if you want to say Peyton failed then so did Brady because he didn't win that game in OT, and wasn't getting another chance to. It was a great game that unfortunately came down to an anticlimactic finish.

 

I gotta say though, the only thing about game that WOULD have been anticlimactic would have been a tie. There was nothing anticlimactic about that ending, it was just disappointing for many of you that the Patriots won it. Turnovers early directly led to the Broncos building a seemingly insurmountable lead, late turnovers gave the Patriots the win. 

 

It's essentially no different than the 4th and 2 game a couple of years ago...when Patriots were up big early, Peyton clawed back, and a turnover on downs gave him the ball in the offensive zone and it was an easy game winning drive. I dont remember any of you saying THAT was anticlimactic...it was just the result you desired.

[TAPLOOK]

But Brady DID win the game. What were you people watching?

[Moose Of Woe]

But Brady DID win the game. What were you people watching?

I saw him on the sideline after going 3 and out for the second straight time in OT (third time in a row if you count regulation) and watched as his special teams recovered a Broncos stupid mistake. Not to mention the drive between those three with 28 seconds to go and they did absolutely nothing.

 

Then I watched his field goal kicker make a 31 yard chip shot.

 

Unless you mean when he centered the ball. Yeah that was masterful.

[Superman]

I gotta say though, the only thing about game that WOULD have been anticlimactic would have been a tie. There was nothing anticlimactic about that ending, it was just disappointing for many of you that the Patriots won it. Turnovers early directly led to the Broncos building a seemingly insurmountable lead, late turnovers gave the Patriots the win. 

 

It's essentially no different than the 4th and 2 game a couple of years ago...when Patriots were up big early, Peyton clawed back, and a turnover on downs gave him the ball in the offensive zone and it was an easy game winning drive. I dont remember any of you saying THAT was anticlimactic...it was just the result you desired.

 

Nothing anti climactic about it, I agree. I expected it to end in a tie when I saw where the punt was going. That would have sucked.

[dynasty13]

I saw him on the sideline after going 3 and out for the second straight time in OT (third time in a row if you count regulation) and watched as his special teams recovered a Broncos stupid mistake. Not to mention the drive between those three with 28 seconds to go and they did absolutely nothing.

 

Then I watched his field goal kicker make a 31 yard chip shot.

 

Unless you mean when he centered the ball. Yeah that was masterful.

 

Can't argue with that.

 

But just for curiosity's sake, if you had to pick one quarterback who did 'win' Manning vs Brady XVI, which one would you select?

[Moose Of Woe]

Can't argue with that.

 

But just for curiosity's sake, if you had to pick one quarterback who did 'win' Manning vs Brady XVI, which one would you select?

The New England Patriots. I don't think quarterbacks win games. No player does. That applies for championships, too.

 

I do, however, think players can all but single handedly lose games if they suck horribly.

[Fx Stryker]

I gotta say though, the only thing about game that WOULD have been anticlimactic would have been a tie. There was nothing anticlimactic about that ending, it was just disappointing for many of you that the Patriots won it. Turnovers early directly led to the Broncos building a seemingly insurmountable lead, late turnovers gave the Patriots the win. 

 

It's essentially no different than the 4th and 2 game a couple of years ago...when Patriots were up big early, Peyton clawed back, and a turnover on downs gave him the ball in the offensive zone and it was an easy game winning drive. I dont remember any of you saying THAT was anticlimactic...it was just the result you desired.

That's absolutely not true at all. In a game like this I want it to come down to clutch play at the end. I truly would have preferred Brady having the game winning drive compared to what happened. It wasn't the result it was how the result happened.

[Moose Of Woe]

That's absolutely not true at all. In a game like this I want it to come down to clutch play at the end. I truly would have preferred Brady having the game winning drive compared to what happened. It wasn't the result it was how the result happened.

Still better than a ref jobbing, though. At least the players decided the game, not the zebras. Those are the ones that are flat out vomit inducing.

[Shane Bond]

Broncos would have been near the 30 so it was about 47. Very makeable for Prater. If they had the wind the game was over easily even without the catch.

The one thing about the Denver receivers that bothers me is they do not fight for the ball. Especially Decker he gives up every time he is touched and cries for a flag. He just need to catch the ball first and foremost. Forget about the stupid possibility of a flag.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

Their WRs need to toughen up and catch the ball first. I am sure someone tells them that. They did the same against KC too.

[dynasty13]

The New England Patriots. I don't think quarterbacks win games. No player does. That applies for championships, too.

 

I do, however, think players can all but single handedly lose games if they suck horribly.

 

I agree...but say if you HAD to choose which quarterback outplayed the other...which would you select?

[Shane Bond]

I saw him on the sideline after going 3 and out for the second straight time in OT (third time in a row if you count regulation) and watched as his special teams recovered a Broncos stupid mistake. Not to mention the drive between those three with 28 seconds to go and they did absolutely nothing.

 

Then I watched his field goal kicker make a 31 yard chip shot.

 

Unless you mean when he centered the ball. Yeah that was masterful.

Yeah the Pats fans will ignore all that.

 

Only reason Pats are what they are is 2 words - BILL BELICHICK. Period. If they dont have Brady, he will still find a way to win.

[TAPLOOK]

I saw him on the sideline after going 3 and out for the second straight time in OT (third time in a row if you count regulation) and watched as his special teams recovered a Broncos stupid mistake. Not to mention the drive between those three with 28 seconds to go and they did absolutely nothing.

 

Then I watched his field goal kicker make a 31 yard chip shot.

 

Unless you mean when he centered the ball. Yeah that was masterful.

Did you see him drive the Patriots to 31 unanswered points after being down 24-0? If he didn't do that the Broncos could have dropped punts to their hearts desire.    

[Shane Bond]

I agree...but say if you HAD to choose which quarterback outplayed the other...which would you select?

 

Snow, your question has underlying assumptions. Manning stats doesnt say the whole picture. He didnt have to throw the ball. Brady had to throw as they were trailing. 

 

Look at all the Manning/Brady games. Its usually Colts who were trailing and Manning has to throw a lot and his yards would always be higher.

 

When Manning throwed yesterday, his receivers didnt help him similar to what happend to Brady during week 1 to week 5.

[-JJ-]

That's absolutely not true at all. In a game like this I want it to come down to clutch play at the end. I truly would have preferred Brady having the game winning drive compared to what happened. It wasn't the result it was how the result happened.

That's not football tho. And don't tell as a fan when your team is losing you yell for an INT, a penalty, a fumble, a bolt of lighting...anything to win. And that's ok- its football. Heck I was wishing for an INT when we were down every time Manning dropped back

 

Just because you want it to end sterilized doesn't make it football.

[Moose Of Woe]

I agree...but say if you HAD to choose which quarterback outplayed the other...which would you select?

Brady had a better night, no question. I keep saying Manning was basically Trent Dilfering it all night to Moreno.

 

On the occasion he did pass, it was often dropped or his receivers cried for a flag instead of fighting for the ball. Or both. Decker and D.Thomas both do it, but Decker in particular is god awful with it.

[Shane Bond]

Did you see him drive the Patriots to 31 unanswered points after being down 24-0? If he didn't do that the Broncos could have dropped punts to their hearts desire.    

Its like saying Manning drove for 24-0 in the first half.

 

Look, like i said, WRs decided the game yesterday. Pats were better, Period.

[Moose Of Woe]

Did you see him drive the Patriots to 31 unanswered points after being down 24-0? If he didn't do that the Broncos could have dropped punts to their hearts desire.    

Yes he put those 31 points up all by himself. He's amazing.

 

That's like saying Peyton put up 24 unanswered when most of those were off a short field/turnovers and Moreno running his guts out. The same thing happened for NE when the Broncos kept forking the ball right back to them.

 

Turnovers were the difference - not any one player. Keep in mind Brady had one of his own (fumble) that went for six. He had a second one that bounced right back to him. Manning had an INT and fumble that bounced back to him as well. Both had two and lucked on one. Brady threw a pick six that was dropped by Woodyard as well.

[Moose Of Woe]

Yeah the Pats fans will ignore all that.

 

Only reason Pats are what they are is 2 words - BILL BELICHICK. Period. If they dont have Brady, he will still find a way to win.

They both deserve credit. Along with the entire team. It does start with coaching, but the entire team won the game. Not either of them. That's football.

[TAPLOOK]

Yeah the Pats fans will ignore all that.

 

Only reason Pats are what they are is 2 words - BILL BELICHICK. Period. If they dont have Brady, he will still find a way to win.

That's explains why BB wastes all that cap space on Brady.

[Superman]

I agree...but say if you HAD to choose which quarterback outplayed the other...which would you select?

 

Last night, Brady, absolutely. No question about it. And in any game with that kind of wind, at this point, I'd prefer Brady. He has the superior arm.

 

That doesn't mean Manning had a bad game.

[TAPLOOK]

Its like saying Manning drove for 24-0 in the first half.

 

Look, like i said, WRs decided the game yesterday. Pats were better, Period.

No it's not. Manning had very little contribution to the 24-0 lead.

[Shane Bond]

That's explains why BB wastes all that cap space on Brady.

 

If you think Belichick has nothing to do with NE success, that explains what you think of NE

[dynasty13]

Last night, Brady, absolutely. No question about it. And in any game with that kind of wind, at this point, I'd prefer Brady. He has the superior arm.

 

That doesn't mean Manning had a bad game.

 

Agreed. 

[Shane Bond]

No it's not. Manning had very little contribution to the 24-0 lead.

I was waiting for you to say that, its not like he tried and failed, he wasnt required to.

 

When he was required, he marched them down for a game tying score and a game winning field goal drive ( thanks to Welker and DT to helping him avoid that )

[chad72]

Do any of you here think that the Dungy Colts with Mathis and Freeney would have let a 24-0 lead evaporate at Foxboro? I don't think so.

 

Bogie is right, no lead is safe with that Broncos' D, they are heavily reliant on the QB providing them the cushion. G-men shut down the Pats after the Pats went up 17-9 in SB 46 in the 3rd qtr., such characteristics are consistently lacking in this D that is nowhere close to championship caliber.

 

When the Ravens get a TD lead on you, you should see them play, it almost ends up in a 2 TD win for them (unless you turn the lights off ). Case in point, the whooping they gave the Pats at Foxboro 33-17 a few years ago, and then the recent whooping they gave the Pats at Foxboro 28-13. When the Steelers get a TD lead on you, you should see them play. All their approaches are considerably different from how the Broncos' D has played in the past, present and possibly in the future while nursing a lead.

[dynasty13]

Bogie is right, no lead is safe with that Broncos' D, they are heavily reliant on the QB providing them the cushion. G-men shut down the Pats after the Pats went up 17-9 in SB 46 in the 3rd qtr., such characteristics are consistently lacking in this D that is nowhere close to championship caliber.

 

When the Ravens get a TD lead on you, you should see them play. When the Steelers get a TD lead on you, you should see them play. All their approaches are considerably different from how the Broncos' D has played in the past, present and possibly in the future while nursing a lead.

 

Which begs the question...why does this always seem to be the primary characteristic of a Peyton Manning-led team?

[Shane Bond]

Do any of you here think that the Dungy Colts with Mathis and Freeney would have let a 24-0 lead evaporate at Foxboro? I don't think so.

 

Bogie is right, no lead is safe with that Broncos' D, they are heavily reliant on the QB providing them the cushion. G-men shut down the Pats after the Pats went up 17-9 in SB 46 in the 3rd qtr., such characteristics are consistently lacking in this D that is nowhere close to championship caliber.

 

When the Ravens get a TD lead on you, you should see them play. When the Steelers get a TD lead on you, you should see them play. All their approaches are considerably different from how the Broncos' D has played in the past, present and possibly in the future.

 

Totally agree. Denver D is horrible.

 

Yesterday especially within few minutes, they lost DRC, Vickerson, Bruton and Bolden. It was over.

[Superman]

Which begs the question...why does this always seem to be the primary characteristic of a Peyton Manning-led team?

 

Do you have some hypothesis? Are you suggesting that Manning's presence somehow diminishes the quality of the defense?

[Moose Of Woe]

Which begs the question...why does this always seem to be the primary characteristic of a Peyton Manning-led team?

Cowardly, hyper-conservative coaching that lets off the gas. Doesn't make appropriate adjustments on defense and doesn't put players in position to win. Or does something stupid like, I don't know, put your punt return team out in OT or call timeouts for the other team.

 

Bill Belichick>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jim Mora>>Tony Dungy>A dead fish>John Fox>=<Jack Del Rio>=<Jim Caldwell

 

 

Said it before. Will say it again. Should have gone to San Fran. Whatever relationship might have come between Harbaugh/Manning at least Harbaugh has the balls to stomp on another team's throat. Let alone having a legitimate defense.