Johnathan Martin To The Colts? [Merge]

[Gavin]

Very rarely do witnesses stand up to or call out a bully. Nor do they typically back up the victim's story. This, unfortunately, is just human nature at its best.

To say anything else would be to indict themselves for being to wimpy to to stop or stand up to the behavior. This is exactly the culture that bullies rely on.

Which is why those that are bullied need to fight back, Its like the kid that always gets picked on at school....sure you can tell the teacher but these days more often then not they do absolutely nothing about it so you have 2 choices......Continue to take the bullying or fight back, Most of the time if ya fight back that bully will not mess with ya anymore.

[dudeski]

Which is why those that are bullied need to fight back, Its like the kid that always gets picked on at school....sure you can tell the teacher but these days more often then not they do absolutely nothing about it so you have 2 choices......Continue to take the bullying or fight back, Most of the time if ya fight back that bully will not mess with ya anymore.

you watch too many Disney movies

[John Dee]

No, Gavin is totally correct.     One earns RESPECT if they step up and take a stand.  And 9 times out of 10 the bully will leave you alone.    

 

It may not be the PC route of action but it is the one that is most effective.

you watch too many Disney movies

[dudeski]

No, Gavin is totally correct. One earns RESPECT if they step up and take a stand. And 9 times out of 10 the bully will leave you alone.

It may not be the PC route of action but it is the one that is most effective.

9 out of 10 times? Yeah right

Did you get that stat the same place you learned how to quote?

[TKnight24]

We are not a team that likes controversy. I doubt we would invite that here.

Seriously Krunk? We LOVE controversy here. Every week there's a controversial thing

Will Andrew Luck have his beard or won't he?

Controversial right there

[John Dee]

No..  I went to public school...        and got my nonsense in accounting in 94.      No internet then. 

 

Sorry if I am not up to YOUR standards...     but then again..  I don't give a flip... .  

9 out of 10 times? Yeah right

Did you get that stat the same place you learned how to quote?

[schwamm]

No, Gavin is totally correct. One earns RESPECT if they step up and take a stand. And 9 times out of 10 the bully will leave you alone.

It may not be the PC route of action but it is the one that is most effective.

I feel dirty that I'm forced to agree with dudeski, but there are many types of bullies. I've never polled any of them, so I can't speak to percentages as fluently as you, but I'd reason that a healthy number actually want the opportunity to assert themselves when victims fight back. A good many use bullying to provoke a reaction, thereby giving themselves justification to increase their violent behavior.

Y'all talk a great game about employing your sledgehammers, though. Tough guys abound on the internet... I wonder they aren't nearly so common in real life...

[Dr. T]

I think you are all forgetting where Martin comes from. He wasn't some thug kid from the streets. His parents were both professors. Growing up, I'm sure that no one messed with Martin because of his size. Stanford was the best place for him to play football, because there is no room for street thug stuff there. Winning football games for them is a science, not a war. So I'm sure that when Martin went to Miami, this was probably the first time in his life where he was taught by intimidation, rather than nuturing. It was so foreign to him that he snapped. He probably thought, "Why would my teammates treat me this way? Are there not better ways to motivate me than playing these abusing mind games?" I would bet that our O-linemen don't treat one another this way. They study film and fix their technique if something is wrong. That is LOGICAL way to go about it. And what happened to Martin in Miami was not LOGICAl, so he couldn't handle it.

In short, Martin has shown in college, protecting none other than Andrew Luck's blind side, that he can be a good football player. He just needs a better environment. Reuniting him with his old Stanford teammates and coach is EXACTLY the best place for him. And he would be a good player for us.

[John Dee]

I feel dirty that I'm forced to agree with dudeski, but there are many types of bullies. I've never polled any of them, so I can't speak to percentages as fluently as you, but I'd reason that a healthy number actually want the opportunity to assert themselves when victims fight back. A good many use bullying to provoke a reaction, thereby giving themselves justification to increase their violent behavior.

Y'all talk a great game about employing your sledgehammers, though. Tough guys abound on the internet... I wonder they aren't nearly so common in real life...

No..  tough guys are not so tough when a "perceived" weak individual that won't fight back gets engaged.     It is all about growing up.    Pier groups are RUTHLESS.      The weak get picked on.   IN EVERY life form.  In my experiences the "tough" guys KNOW they are tough.   and do not get messed with.    THE "wanna be" tough guys are the ones who simply have NO SELF ESTEEM.  

 

They need to feel BIG for acceptance.

 

 

When the "weakling" finally makes a stand...     he earns INSTANT respect from his or her pier group.   It is sad it has to come to that but life is not all candy and roses.

 

I went to Marion HS in the mid 80's...     it was a melting pot in C Indiana.     A LOT of racial and pier group tension going on.

 

Blacks, Mexicans, Jocks, Hoods, Preppies...  it was all a click.

 

BUT, sports brought my crowd together.     Not tear it apart.    You all have very different experienced than I do.    BUT, I guarantee you if you get continually picked on..    and DO NOT fight back .. it won't stop.

 

Fight back,...   you may take an butt whipping but the drama will stop....   most of the time.

 

It is all about earning respect.      The weak are easy targets. 

 

That is just the way I see it.

 

But someone was correct...  the internet turns everyone into an instant tough guy.

 

Oh well...       

[schwamm]

No.. tough guys are not so tough when a "perceived" weak individual that won't fight back gets engaged. It is all about growing up. Pier groups are RUTHLESS. The weak get picked on. IN EVERY life form. In my experiences the "tough" guys KNOW they are tough. and do not get messed with. THE "wanna be" tough guys are the ones who simply have NO SELF ESTEEM.

They need to feel BIG for acceptance.

When the "weakling" finally makes a stand... he earns INSTANT respect from his or her pier group. It is sad it has to come to that but life is not all candy and roses.

I went to Marion HS in the mid 80's... it was a melting pot in C Indiana. A LOT of racial and pier group tension going on.

Blacks, Mexicans, Jocks, Hoods, Preppies... it was all a click.

BUT, sports brought my crowd together. Not tear it apart. You all have very different experienced than I do. BUT, I guarantee you if you get continually picked on.. and DO NOT fight back .. it won't stop.

Fight back,... you may take an butt whipping but the drama will stop.... most of the time.

It is all about earning respect. The weak are easy targets.

That is just the way I see it.

But someone was correct... the internet turns everyone into an instant tough guy.

Oh well...

John Dee, you are absolutely correct in your description of ONE kind of bully. However, there is another... the psychopath... and they actually want a reaction, and want to amp up their violence. And they are more prevalent than many think. Many have just learned to control their impulses.

Advising physical confrontation without first knowing the kind of bully is just not smart.

[John Dee]

I think you are all forgetting where Martin comes from. He wasn't some thug kid from the streets. His parents were both professors. Growing up, I'm sure that no one messed with Martin because of his size. Stanford was the best place for him to play football, because there is no room for street thug stuff there. Winning football games for them is a science, not a war. So I'm sure that when Martin went to Miami, this was probably the first time in his life where he was taught by intimidation, rather than nuturing. It was so foreign to him that he snapped. He probably thought, "Why would my teammates treat me this way? Are there not better ways to motivate me than playing these abusing mind games?" I would bet that our O-linemen don't treat one another this way. They study film and fix their technique if something is wrong. That is LOGICAL way to go about it. And what happened to Martin in Miami was not LOGICAl, so he couldn't handle it.

In short, Martin has shown in college, protecting none other than Andrew Luck's blind side, that he can be a good football player. He just needs a better environment. Reuniting him with his old Stanford teammates and coach is EXACTLY the best place for him. And he would be a good player for us.

Good post

 

I kinda agree...      but in another way I do not.  

 

Martin broke a kind of unwritten locker room rule.. and went to the "teacher" crying....

 

I really wonder if ANY locker room would accept him openly.     I may be wrong but ..   

 

JMO>>>    I would not want him on my team.   

[John Dee]

They get taken care of eventually...  if it goes that far.

 

IF the law has to get involved then something is tragically wrong.

 

But i think that is the extreme..  and not the norm.    Although I have "known" a few...   they are dead or in prison.

 

Just where they NEED to be.

 

 

 

John Dee, you are absolutely correct in your description of ONE kind of bully. However, there is another... the psychopath... and they actually want a reaction, and want to amp up their violence. And they are more prevalent than many think.

Advising physical confrontation without first knowing the kind of bully is just not smart.

[ColtsBlueFL]

They get taken care of eventually...  if it goes that far.

 

IF the law has to get involved then something is tragically wrong.

 

But i think that is the extreme..  and not the norm.    Although I have "known" a few...   they are dead or in prison.

 

Just where they NEED to be.

 

 

But not in Incognito's case.  He had allegedly molested  a lady... got settled and sealed so the truth can't be revealed. He then punched out a security guard who was asking his group to leave. This was buried too. Incognito has the money and wherewithal to bury  his aggressive tendencies.  No accountability. He is not to be trusted to stand up against!

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/report-richie-incognito-punched-knocked-out-a-hotel-security-guard/

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/09/philbin-dolphins-took-immediate-action-after-woman-accused-incognito-of-battery/

 

 

I think it will be hard for his camp to hide this.  And the Dolphins better hope it is just Incognito, because all players and team coaches/F.O. are under the microscope now.  And Incognito will not be able to bury this like other past indiscretions.  and it is hard to prove a case criminally, (IE: O.J.) but easier to win in civil court for rights violations.  So Incognito may evade being deceased, and maybe even incarceration, but possibly not in civil action.

[John Dee]

But not in Incognito's case.  He had allegedly molested  a lady... got settled and sealed so the truth can't be revealed. He then punched out a security guard who was asking his group to leave. This was buried too. Incognito has the money and wherewithal to bury  his aggressive tendencies.  No accountability. He is not to be trusted to stand up against!

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/report-richie-incognito-punched-knocked-out-a-hotel-security-guard/

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/09/philbin-dolphins-took-immediate-action-after-woman-accused-incognito-of-battery/

 

 

I think it will be hard for his camp to hide this.  And the Dolphins better hope it is just Incognito, because all players and team coaches/F.O. are under the microscope now.  And Incognito will not be able to bury this like other past indiscretions.  and it is hard to prove a case criminally, (IE: O.J.) but easier to win in civil court for rights violations.  So Incognito may evade being deceased, and maybe even incarceration, but possibly not in civil action.

Great post...

[NewEra]

There have been plenty if examples of bullying continuing even when victims fight back. Your logic is flawed there.

Well this isn't a case of bullying so yours is flawed.

[NewEra]

You don't know Martin asked for him to stop. Ted Wells is the only one with the whole story from Martin, as he interviewed Martin for 7 hours on Friday. Wells is heading to Miami this week to interview all of the Miami players and others. What did and didn't happen will come out. However, these things seem to be true-

The league has a history of 'rite of passage' : Things rooks must do for the vets.

We are not sure how long this is allowed/supposed to go on

We are not sure where the 'line in the sand' is drawn and you should stop going through the ritual and confront all the vets

Not sure if it is ever good to throw down punches to vets. If in locker room, I'm sure it gets broken up. Outside the locker room, something else gets broken.

May not be good for team mates to elect elect themselves as leaders.

Martin admitted to going along hoping it would end. Most everyone h ere says they'd put Incognito's lights out. (as if...) It escalated to what Martin feels his job and personal safety were at risk. At least he didn't go Aaron Hernandez on Incognito. He took the high road. Doing that took more courage than trying to sucker punch Incognito. The whole league will be changed because of this, and that scares folks. But Martin has civil rights, and he may have just cause. The lawyers have it in their control now.

We will agree to disagree.

[Dr. T]

If Martin was forced to pay a bloated $25,000 restaurant bill for Incognitio and his buddies, that has nothing to do with football. It's extortion, plain and simple.

[ColtsBlueFL]

We will agree to disagree.

 

Duly noted.

[John Dee]

I think Incognito took a little slack a LONG WAY and abused his privileges.

 

The disturbing thing is NOT ONE DOLPHIN PLAYER HAS STEPPED UP AND DEFENDED MARTIN.

 

This behavior was par for the course it seems?     And that is PATHETIC.

 

And the language?    Really?  

 

A really weird situation. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

If Martin was forced to pay a bloated $25,000 restaurant bill for Incognitio and his buddies, that has nothing to do with football. It's extortion, plain and simple.

 

we don't know specifics.  But is was leaked he didn't want to go on a Las Vegas jaunt with O line and was required to pay $15,000 to not attend.  But that alone  wouldn't make a guy quit a profession he worked hard at all his life to attain.  There's more

[BOTT]

But not in Incognito's case.  He had allegedly molested  a lady... got settled and sealed so the truth can't be revealed. He then punched out a security guard who was asking his group to leave. This was buried too. Incognito has the money and wherewithal to bury  his aggressive tendencies.  No accountability. He is not to be trusted to stand up against!

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/report-richie-incognito-punched-knocked-out-a-hotel-security-guard/

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/09/philbin-dolphins-took-immediate-action-after-woman-accused-incognito-of-battery/

 

 

I think it will be hard for his camp to hide this.  And the Dolphins better hope it is just Incognito, because all players and team coaches/F.O. are under the microscope now.  And Incognito will not be able to bury this like other past indiscretions.  and it is hard to prove a case criminally, (IE: O.J.) but easier to win in civil court for rights violations.  So Incognito may evade being deceased, and maybe even incarceration, but possibly not in civil action.

You may want to google that hotel incident. According to the police report there are 3 witnesses who claim Incognito was actually the one trying to break it up....and that the accuser didn't have any injuries, which is odd considering he got punched out by a 6'3 320lb nfl player.

[BOTT]

we don't know specifics.  But is was leaked he didn't want to go on a Las Vegas jaunt with O line and was required to pay $15,000 to not attend.  But that alone  wouldn't make a guy quit a profession he worked hard at all his life to attain.  There's more

And the other linemen claim that Martin agreed to the trip and after all the plans/reservations were set he backed out. None of us know what happened at this point.

[ColtsBlueFL]

And the other linemen claim that Martin agreed to the trip and after all the plans/reservations were set he backed out. None of us know what happened at this point.

 

No we don't. we just know Incognito's friends are his allies, and cover up is his and the Dolphins M.O.  It's not surprising friends will side with their own, now is it?Now it's in the lawyers and investigators hands.  No cover up  will work this time.

 

I have the police report.  I don't see where 3 witnesses verified as Joseph the Aggressor. And a classic case of he said/she said.  Security doesn't pick fights with NFL players for fun during concerts.  Then Dolphins bury it and hotel not releasing security video. The person of interest in this report and charged Misc and Trespassing was Incognito.

 

I might have missed it, but you can look for it and point it out to me.  It's in this article.

 

http://deadspin.com/the-security-guard-richie-incognito-punched-is-a-former-1180365706

[BOTT]

No we don't. we just know Incognito's friends are his allies, and cover up is his and the Dolphins M.O.  It's not surprising friends will side with their own, now is it?Now it's in the lawyers and investigators hands.  No cover up  will work this time.

 

I have the police report.  I don't see where 3 witnesses verified as Joseph the Aggressor. And a classic case of he said/she said.  Security doesn't pick fights with NFL players for fun during concerts.  Then Dolphins bury it and hotel not releasing security video. The person of interest in this report and charged Misc and Trespassing was Incognito.

 

I might have missed it, but you can look for it and point it out to me.  It's in this article.

 

http://deadspin.com/the-security-guard-richie-incognito-punched-is-a-former-1180365706

Man, you continually jump to conclusions based on very little info.

When I read the story on SBNation I assumed the witnesses were part of the police report....my bad. But it's interesting that the only one with injuries was Incognito.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Man, you continually jump to conclusions based on very little info.

When I read the story on SBNation I assumed the witnesses were part of the police report....my bad. But it's interesting that the only one with injuries was Incognito.

 

I beg your pardon, it was You that had jumped to conclusions, based on hearsay.  I look in to all reports for all angles as much as I can, and then only use reports I feel are vetted enough to go with.  I link my sources to go with my suspicions.  You can attack my position, but you must also rebut the sources too, with even more credible ones. Not tell me to do my homework (for which I have likely already done waiting for response) instead of doing it yourself.  Disagree with me, fine.  But the establishment will get shook up over this, and there will only be carnage.  No winners.  Only losers. And that ticks a lot of people off.  I get that.

[BOTT]

I beg your pardon, it was You that had jumped to conclusions, based on hearsay. I look in to all reports for all angles as much as I can, and then only use reports I feel are vetted enough to go with. I link my sources to go with my suspicions. You can attack my position, but you must also rebut the sources too, with even more credible ones. Not tell me to do my homework (for which I have likely already done waiting for response) instead of doing it yourself. Disagree with me, fine. But the establishment will get shook up over this, and there will only be carnage. No winners. Only losers. And that ticks a lot of people off. I get that.

I didn't jump to conclusions. I simply gave another side to the story...I never jumped to the conclusion that Martin was cheap and refused to pay his part. In fact I said that none of us know what happened.

Sources? Dead spin and Mike Florio? Poor sources and then you compound it by saying the hotel and the dolphins are burying the story to protect Incognito.....and then claim Dolphins players are covering up the Vegas trip....and there isn't any evidence of that.

[NewEra]

Duly noted.

And that's not a knock on you or anyone else who sides with Martin. I don't know the whole story. I can only tell you my personally beliefs and how I was raised. I grew up in the military so was always raised to protect and defend myself. I will teach my kids the same. My wife is more like you guys who think they should tell a teacher, walk away and what not. There won't always be people there to bail them out or who they can tell. I was not always an angel and went through something much worse than Martin. Were if you showed weakness you could be dead. So to each his own. I don't knock other peoples beliefs or values. So don't knock mine.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I didn't jump to conclusions. I simply gave another side to the story...I never jumped to the conclusion that Martin was cheap and refused to pay his part. In fact I said that none of us know what happened.

Sources? Dead spin and Mike Florio? Poor sources and then you compound it by saying the hotel and the dolphins are burying the story to protect Incognito.....and then claim Dolphins players are covering up the Vegas trip....and there isn't any evidence of that.

Nice straw man, Blood.  I never mentioned las vegas to you.  We do not know what happened about Las Vegas except hearsay that was leaked; which is suspect. I refer to Foutainbleu security issue  and molestation incidents. Only. 

These were both covered up.  That information is known.  The June 10 incident wasn't even reported by ESPN until August 22, and in the article the specifically say-

 

"The Dolphins have been aware of the incident because, as one source said, "They've done everything to bury it." "

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9588994/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-was-altercation-training-camp

 

Of course, I never mention Incognito knocked out the security guard, but the 'other side of the story, as you like to do, is in the article from a League Source -

 

"League sources said Incognito punched and knocked out the security guard, though the police report makes no mention of this."

 

I am not sure what you're going off about, but it appears not about what I've posted, and you're just not as credible as at this juncture as Adam Schefter, since you appear you will attack any published article not your own.

[BOTT]

Nice straw man, Blood.  I never mentioned las vegas to you.  We do not know what happened about Las Vegas except hearsay that was leaked; which is suspect. I refer to Foutainbleu security issue  and molestation incidents. Only. 

These were both covered up.  That information is known.  The June 10 incident wasn't even reported by ESPN until August 22, and in the article the specifically say-

 

"The Dolphins have been aware of the incident because, as one source said, "They've done everything to bury it." "

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9588994/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-was-altercation-training-camp

 

Of course, I never mention Incognito knocked out the security guard, but the 'other side of the story, as you like to do, is in the article from a League Source -

 

"League sources said Incognito punched and knocked out the security guard, though the police report makes no mention of this."

 

I am not sure what you're going off about, but it appears not about what I've posted, and you're just not as credible as at this juncture as Adam Schefter, since you appear you will attack any published article not your own.

Straw man? You clearly said that it isn't surprising that his friends and teammates would cover for him when the topic was brought up. Again jumping to a conclusion.

And you don't know what what was " covered up." You just go by a bunch of unmanned sources and Adam Shefter....yeah, that guy has never gotten anything wrong. Frankly, you just come as gullible as to how the media works.

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

And that's not a knock on you or anyone else who sides with Martin. I don't know the whole story. I can only tell you my personally beliefs and how I was raised. I grew up in the military so was always raised to protect and defend myself. I will teach my kids the same. My wife is more like you guys who think they should tell a teacher, walk away and what not. There won't always be people there to bail them out or who they can tell. I was not always an angel and went through something much worse than Martin. Were if you showed weakness you could be dead. So to each his own. I don't knock other peoples beliefs or values. So don't knock mine.

 

No, it's fine. I have friends like you in that respect.  I've always been more leaning to the diplomatic avenues first, and not physically confrontational.  IF, those avenues are available. Most often they are, and was in Martin's case.  His life wasn't on the line if he didn't fight Incognito. That is apparent.  But the threats he received about his sister and mother and the harsh physical confrontation forced upon him (reported by his lawyer, David Cornwell) can be construed as lifestyle altering.

 

" Jonathan endured a malicious physical attack on him by a teammate  "

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9588994/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-was-altercation-training-camp

 

But if his life was in imminent danger, He would use his size and strength and the swell of adrenaline... because there's no recourse.  It just seems tough guys try to make it seem like that so they can get their victim to lash out, thus justifying the to respond in kind and unleash full arsenal of punishment with justification.  I'm glad Martin didn't fall for it.

 

I'm not sure I knocked you're values, just those you feel Martin should have done. And noted it, that it was diametrically opposed to mine. You can do as you please. Please show me where I attacked YOU and I will apologize.  I will not tell you how to parent either. OTOH, My son is 11 and a blue belt in Tae Kwon Do. He is mild mannered and has  learned self discipline in his martial arts. When he graduates to the red belt, his skills will be have just become dangerous. However, he is currently loathe to spar (necessary to move up) which makes his skills relatively untested vs.live opponents.  I'm not forcing him to spar, and if he doesn't move up, then fine.  If he does, I know he will not use these skills unnecessarily.  I've already instructed him I don't want to hear about him ever starting something.  But if someone starts something with him, to go report it. To me and to the school. Sorry to those who think otherwise.  I did tell him if ever there is no other recourse but to defend, then, and only then, he could do whatever necessary using whatever methods to ensure his safety, and I'd back him up 100% without fail.

 

So to reiterate, I have no personal beef with you.  Really.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Straw man? You clearly said that it isn't surprising that his friends and teammates would cover for him when the topic was brought up. Again jumping to a conclusion.

And you don't know what what was " covered up." You just go by a bunch of unmanned sources and Adam Shefter....yeah, that guy has never gotten anything wrong. Frankly, you just come as gullible as to how the media works.

 

(Sigh}  You win.  -_-  Martin is all wrong. All Dolphins players are right.

[BOTT]

(Sigh}  You win.  -_-

(Massive eye roll) thanks

[NewEra]

No, it's fine. I have friends like you in that respect. I've always been more leaning to the diplomatic avenues first, and not physically confrontational. IF, those avenues are available. Most often they are, and was in Martin's case. His life wasn't on the line if he didn't fight Incognito. That is apparent. But the threats he received about his sister and mother and the harsh physical confrontation forced upon him (reported by his lawyer, David Cornwell) can be construed as lifestyle altering.

" Jonathan endured a malicious physical attack on him by a teammate "

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9588994/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-was-altercation-training-camp

But if his life was in imminent danger, He would use his size and strength and the swell of adrenaline... because there's no recourse. It just seems tough guys try to make it seem like that so they can get their victim to lash out, thus justifying the to respond in kind and unleash full arsenal of punishment with justification. I'm glad Martin didn't fall for it.

I'm not sure I knocked you're values, just those you feel Martin should have done. And noted it, that it was diametrically opposed to mine. You can do as you please. Please show me where I attacked YOU and I will apologize. I will not tell you how to parent either. OTOH, My son is 11 and a blue belt in Tae Kwon Do. He is mild mannered and has learned self discipline in his martial arts. When he graduates to the red belt, his skills will be have just become dangerous. However, he is currently loathe to spar (necessary to move up) which makes his skills relatively untested vs.live opponents. I'm not forcing him to spar, and if he doesn't move up, then fine. If he does, I know he will not use these skills unnecessarily. I've already instructed him I don't want to hear about him ever starting something. But if someone starts something with him, to go report it. To me and to the school. Sorry to those who think otherwise. I did tell him if ever there is no other recourse but to defend, then, and only then, he could do whatever necessary using whatever methods to ensure his safety, and I'd back him up 100% without fail.

So to reiterate, I have no personal beef with you. Really.

Oh no no no, sorry. Didn't mean you. Meant in general. I know YOU didn't say anything or try to attack me. The other Martin thread got out of hand with the high and mighty's. Heck my biggest fear is someone trying to hurt or bully my kids. I would go to know end. So I'm trying to be better at being non confrontational and such.

Btw, very cool getting your son in martial arts. Don't always want to use it. But there if it's ever needed.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

(Sigh}  You win.  -_-  Martin is all wrong. All Dolphins players are right.

I'm sorry but reading all this I can't help but question why literally everyone is sticking up for Incognito and not a one is claiming any validity to Martin's story. You'd have to trust too much into the "fact" that literally every dolphin is doing a massive cover up just to believe Martin. 

[NewColtsFan]

I think you are all forgetting where Martin comes from. He wasn't some thug kid from the streets. His parents were both professors. Growing up, I'm sure that no one messed with Martin because of his size. Stanford was the best place for him to play football, because there is no room for street thug stuff there. Winning football games for them is a science, not a war. So I'm sure that when Martin went to Miami, this was probably the first time in his life where he was taught by intimidation, rather than nuturing. It was so foreign to him that he snapped. He probably thought, "Why would my teammates treat me this way? Are there not better ways to motivate me than playing these abusing mind games?" I would bet that our O-linemen don't treat one another this way. They study film and fix their technique if something is wrong. That is LOGICAL way to go about it. And what happened to Martin in Miami was not LOGICAl, so he couldn't handle it.

In short, Martin has shown in college, protecting none other than Andrew Luck's blind side, that he can be a good football player. He just needs a better environment. Reuniting him with his old Stanford teammates and coach is EXACTLY the best place for him. And he would be a good player for us.

 

Thanks, Dr. T.....

 

A very thoughtful and thought provoking post by you.    I hope everyone here take the time to read it....    

 

Not sure why anyone would be against having Martin on our team?    He'd be a back-up.   A quality back-up.    His contract is completely affordable and the Dolphins will likely have to release him so we don't even have to trade for him.  

 

So, the cost to the Colts is next to nothing.    

 

I think he'd fit in perfectly in the Colts locker-room and culture....

 

I don't think there's much downside to Martin coming to Indy.....    I'm all for it.    

[BOTT]

(Sigh}  You win.  -_-  Martin is all wrong. All Dolphins players are right.

Well, since you edited your post.....I'm not anyone's side. I would much rather have Martin on the Colts than a meathead like Incognito. That doesn't mean I believe much the media says in sensationalized stories such as this. But I guess if you want to pick a side, go ahead.

[ColtsFreak]

I'm divided on this issue.  It is hard on anyone's psyche to put up with mind numbing drama everyday. It really seems to me, If Martin did stand up to Incognito that the whole little click on that team was going to pounce on Martin.  So instead of stooping to their lower half of the Bell curve level. He simply took the high road and walked away from a toxic situation.  I know Ireland is going to get the blame, But Coach Philbin really comes of as a flaky character.    I think if Martin could make the switch to guard in a positive environment like here, We would see the talent that got him drafted in the 2nd round.  Look at vontae for an example. he is doing a world of better here.

[Dr. T]

I'm divided on this issue.  It is hard on anyone's psyche to put up with mind numbing drama everyday. It really seems to me, If Martin did stand up to Incognito that the whole little click on that team was going to pounce on Martin.  So instead of stooping to their lower half of the Bell curve level. He simply took the high road and walked away from a toxic situation.  I know Ireland is going to get the blame, But Coach Philbin really comes of as a flaky character.    I think if Martin could make the switch to guard in a positive environment like here, We would see the talent that got him drafted in the 2nd round.  Look at vontae for an example. he is doing a world of better here.

I could not agree more. And if it comes out that Philbin and the coaching staff perhaps encouraged Incognitio to "toughen the kid up", many heads in Miami will roll.

[Modern]

If Martin was scared of Incognito then why let other players torment him too ?

Why not go after the player who talked trash about his sister, or go upside the head of someone calling him Big Weirdo ? That would have been a way to let Incognito know that he was tough without having to take him on personally.

I think Martin couldnt handle the atmosphere of the locker room , he doesnt have any killer instincts and is basically soft.

I think he probably snapped because it wasnt an enviornent he could handle and I think since he only had evidence of Incognito's text he used that to throw him under the bus and make him the scapegoat.

Incognito is taking all the criticism but he isnt the one who supposedly attacked Martin physically or talked trash about his sister. I think Martin ran home to his lawyer parents and they took what evidence they could, the infamous voicemail , and started the ball rolling on getting Martin paid without having to play.

He ia gonna say he wants to play, he has to, saying he doesnt want to play anymore would damage their case, they want to try and claim future earnings that were lost over the situation. If he said I am done with football then it would damage their claim for more money.

Martin is soft, he can't hack it in the NFL, he isnt the first guy to realize this and he isnt the first to be bullied.

I think he told his lawyer parents that he was thinking about leaving and they decided to try and get paid. I dont think he is a mastermind behind it all, I think his parents probably control him and make him do what they want just like Incognito did. Some people are just very submissive, I think Martin is this way and the other players couldnt comprehend it, most athletes are alpha males.

[chrisfarley]

I'm sure the talks are heating up.  Miami would want too much but Grigs will chew them down and make it work.  I just don't want Waldon to head-butt him right away.  That's bullying and hazing.