Colts get serious about protecting Luck

[dw49]

When we look at the problems of the offensive line and then consider Polian and his drafting, after he was fired I could never get over what he said on ESPN was his drafting strategy. When going over his strategy for drafting players, he said he would never draft an offensive linemen in the first round. That blew me away as being really a really bad strategy. His belief is they were not worth a first round draft pick. That was reserved for impact players only, pass rushers, running backs, WR's. That was due to come back and bite us. I think we are incredibly fortunate we only had to go through salary cap heck for one year. Grigson has done an amazing job in just over one year to rebuild both sides of the line. Think about that, just over 18 months since he took over! Great find and I find it amazing Irsay has the foresight to hire him.

 

 

 

I think what Polian might have said or at least "meant  to have said , is that he would not use a 1st round pick on a guard and maybe even a RT. As the man of steel has already pointed out , Polian took a Left Tackle in the first round of his last draft in 2010. It should also be noted , if we want to discuss this , that he traded the Colt's 1st pick in the 2008 draft to select Tony Ugoh , again a LT , in the upper half of round 2 in the 2007 draft. Should be noted that we really didn't have an immediate need at LT as Glenn had not sprung that surprise retirement yet. Also consider that Ugoh was still on the board at pick 42 , while giving up his 1st next year. His reasoning back then was that whenever you get a chance to select a good left tackle at the middle or bottom of round 1 , you jump at it. 

 

That (above) said , you will go crazy if you take everything Polian has said to heart the last 3-4 years . Simply put ... he's all over the place.

[dw49]

I really can't fault Polian a whole lot. The blueprint he used was to have a super good, highly paid QB, surround him with elite weapons on offense and sprinkle in just good enough pieces to compete on defense. It worked for years in the regular season but as Irsay recently noted himself, we had way too many inconsistencies in the playoffs where weaknesses would be blatantly exposed.

The problem was, Polian began to miss on draft picks after 06'. The offense that once had amazing superstar, explosive ability became Peyton Manning turning Blair White into WMDs (in relative terms of course).

There was no 2nd half plan for Peyton's career really. But as noted previously, once your super star QB gets 1/5 of your salary cap, there isn't much money left to go around to build a COMPLETE team. This is why Grigson is spending "aggressively" in FA because the Colts can afford to do so for the duration of Lucks rookie contract. After that, you hope that Grigson built a good enough pool of players through the draft to compete with Luck probably being a top 5 paid QB in the league.

 

 

If you don't blame Polian for letting his son take over and screwing up about 6 straight drafts that eventually led to that horrible mess Grigson inherited , who do you blame ? I know he didn't try to draft poorly but the answer to your "balanced team" with a super star QB is found there. You have to draft well as you can't spend to fill the holes on the team. 

 

Plus the bad drafts , the man also made his share of bad personal decisions. 

[In Luck We Trust]

yeah they look to protect Luck, but honestly i will always say we wasted a 4th pick on holmes  and should have went with schwenke or jones in the 3rd round. Holmes was carted off the field after injuring the same ankle he has had issues with and slowed him down while at USC. 

[Restored]

If you don't blame Polian for letting his son take over and screwing up about 6 straight drafts that eventually led to that horrible mess Grigson inherited , who do you blame ? I know he didn't try to draft poorly but the answer to your "balanced team" with a super star QB is found there. You have to draft well as you can't spend to fill the holes on the team.

Plus the bad drafts , the man also made his share of bad personal decisions.

I fault his bad drafting choices clearly in my post.I just don't fault him for the entire era not producing more championships given how the financial structure of the organization and league was.

Even if you draft good, you have to have money leftover to pay them well if they are of superstar quality (atleast under the old CBA). Nowadays you can get away with drafting a superstar and paying him dirtball cheap for a good 4 years.

The Colts of the past had a small pool of superstars with low-middle/low level players filling everywhere else out. It produced a terrific winning era with lots of regular season excitement, just not much post-season success.

Hopefully it's different this time around.

[FloridaColtsFan]

They weren't serious about protecting him before?

I'm sure the organization didn't want him to get hit like he did, but they didn't do much before or during the season to help protect him. 

[John Dee]

When a team pays 7 or 8 players 70% of your cap space what can you do?

 

But rely on rookies, cast offs, old vets, or just pray.......    or let Manning carry the team?

 

Indy will be right back in the same boat when Luck's and the other rooks rookie contracts are up (errr second year players now).  49ers will face the same issue in a couple of years.     Win and you have to start coughing up the big bucks.

I'm sure the organization didn't want him to get hit like he did, but they didn't do much before or during the season to help protect him. 

[Superman]

I fault his bad drafting choices clearly in my post.I just don't fault him for the entire era not producing more championships given how the financial structure of the organization and league was.

Even if you draft good, you have to have money leftover to pay them well if they are of superstar quality (atleast under the old CBA). Nowadays you can get away with drafting a superstar and paying him dirtball cheap for a good 4 years.

The Colts of the past had a small pool of superstars with low-middle/low level players filling everywhere else out. It produced a terrific winning era with lots of regular season excitement, just not much post-season success.

Hopefully it's different this time around.

 

That bolded part is hard to just blow past. No one drafts perfectly, but our drafting really started a snowball effect that hurt the team. I've outlined my thoughts on this in the past, so I won't bore you with details, but the poor drafting led to us overspending on our own vets, which led to the dead cap space of 2012. The poor drafting affected every corner of the roster, to the point that we didn't have a satisfactory cornerback on the team at the end of 2011, aside from the oft-injured Jerraud Powers.

 

Really, when you look at the mess Grigson inherited, it starts and ends with poor drafting. It doesn't help that Polian wouldn't do anything in free agency to supplement the talent-depleted roster, but the roster was talent-depleted to begin with because of poor drafting over several years.

 

Like you said, hopefully it's different this time. But what won't be different is that, after 2016, we'll have a highly paid quarterback, again taking up 1/6 of the cap (or something like that, given the going rate right now). The question is whether the drafting keeps good talent around him, whether we make mistakes in free agency (either our own or bringing new guys in), and whether we have a reasonable amount of health and luck (not Luck, but that too). 

[FloridaColtsFan]

When we look at the problems of the offensive line and then consider Polian and his drafting, after he was fired I could never get over what he said on ESPN was his drafting strategy. When going over his strategy for drafting players, he said he would never draft an offensive linemen in the first round. That blew me away as being really a really bad strategy. His belief is they were not worth a first round draft pick. That was reserved for impact players only, pass rushers, running backs, WR's. That was due to come back and bite us. I think we are incredibly fortunate we only had to go through salary cap heck for one year. Grigson has done an amazing job in just over one year to rebuild both sides of the line. Think about that, just over 18 months since he took over! Great find and I find it amazing Irsay has the foresight to hire him.

I agree totally. If Luck was not such a stud & great at seeing the field & avoiding sacks, Polian & son  would have looked like much less competent gm's.

[BOTT]

When a team pays 7 or 8 players 70% of your cap space what can you do?

 

But rely on rookies, cast offs, old vets, or just pray.......    or let Manning carry the team?

 

Indy will be right back in the same boat when Luck's and the other rooks rookie contracts are up (errr second year players now).  49ers will face the same issue in a couple of years.     Win and you have to start coughing up the big bucks.

You don't overpay your own and pick up good value free agents

[BOTT]

yeah they look to protect Luck, but honestly i will always say we wasted a 4th pick on holmes  and should have went with schwenke or jones in the 3rd round. Holmes was carted off the field after injuring the same ankle he has had issues with and slowed him down while at USC. 

So you think Holmes is a chronic ankle sprainer? Lol

[Gavin]

Holmes should be a good player when healthy, Health is the real worry to me NOT talent, Talent wise he fits the Zone scheme very well do to his mobility and abilty to get off the snap quick, Hope he continues to develop his strength

[dw49]

I fault his bad drafting choices clearly in my post.I just don't fault him for the entire era not producing more championships given how the financial structure of the organization and league was.

Even if you draft good, you have to have money leftover to pay them well if they are of superstar quality (atleast under the old CBA). Nowadays you can get away with drafting a superstar and paying him dirtball cheap for a good 4 years.

The Colts of the past had a small pool of superstars with low-middle/low level players filling everywhere else out. It produced a terrific winning era with lots of regular season excitement, just not much post-season success.

Hopefully it's different this time around.

 

 

 

So before the new CBA , GMs were really better off not drafting a potentially great QB because it would take too much cap space ? I know that this is not what you mean or believe but what you have regarding Polian's  tenure with Manning , it could be said this is what you infer. 

[dw49]

You don't overpay your own and pick up good value free agents

 

 

That's the key for sure . Sound like the NE formula ? They would have never done the Bob Sanders deal nor the K Hayden deal.

[FloridaColtsFan]

That's the key for sure . Sound like the NE formula ? They would have never done the Bob Sanders deal nor the K Hayden deal.

Yup, it's hard to credit NE with anything, but they have seemed to have the right formula for years now.

[dw49]

Yup, it's hard to credit NE with anything, but they have seemed to have the right formula for years now.

 

 

 

 

A couple of plays away from 5 SB wins is tough to argue with. I think where they have been really stellar is keeping the right players at the right cost and finding cheaper free agents that are good fits. Other than lucking out with Brady in round 6 , I don't think they have drafted any better than the middle of the pack. They have no doubt manipulated for extra picks but Im not sure how well they utilized them.

[John Dee]

Hindsight is 20/20..  

 

Indy was NOT overpaying for the NFL D MVP in Sanders and a really promising CB in Hayden when they did the deals.  They took a chance and got burned.      It happens all the time in the NFL.

 

As things turn out ..    they turned out to be stinkers.   Personally I think Polian really blew it letting Lilja and Scott walk.

 

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.        Its a crap shoot.  

 

But as long as the team has a QB, it's all good.

That's the key for sure . Sound like the NE formula ? They would have never done the Bob Sanders deal nor the K Hayden deal.

[John Dee]

Nice post, NE was a really good team in the early 2000's because they played GREAT D and RAN THE BALL.

 

NOT Tom Brady carrying them.    He was a game manager.    

 

Now it's all Tom Brady and NO D and not a consistent running game.      and they come up short.

 

But to your post, NE has not drafted well at all.     BB is what he is, water finds it's level.   

 

Some seem to forget the GREAT BB coached the Browns for 5 years in the 90's with a pretty good QB in Vinny T.    And flopped.

 

The NFL is a crazy league.

A couple of plays away from 5 SB wins is tough to argue with. I think where they have been really stellar is keeping the right players at the right cost and finding cheaper free agents that are good fits. Other than lucking out with Brady in round 6 , I don't think they have drafted any better than the middle of the pack. They have no doubt manipulated for extra picks but Im not sure how well they utilized them.

[dw49]

Hindsight is 20/20..  

 

Indy was NOT overpaying for the NFL D MVP in Sanders and a really promising CB in Hayden when they did the deals.  They took a chance and got burned.      It happens all the time in the NFL.

 

As things turn out ..    they turned out to be stinkers.   Personally I think Polian really blew it letting Lilja and Scott walk.

 

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.        Its a crap shoot.  

 

But as long as the team has a QB, it's all good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is Polian did not do a good job in particular the last 5-6 years with Manning. The O Line was terrible , the special teams were horrific , the defense in general stunk. Plus Polian hired a coach (puppet ?)  with little success at the college level. The poster I was responding to was inferring that this was not Pokian's fault but the fault lied with having a great QB and some other very good players. When I brought up Sanders and Hayden , it was just a potion of what went wrong in that Polian era we are talking about. 

 

Yes of coarse Sanders was a great player and  looking back it's easy to say now that it was a bad sign . He could have stayed in one piece , although I have my doubts about guys 5'7' that weigh 210 and run 4.37. Usually injuries follow those kinds of extraordinary bodies around. Anyway , there was a body of work that led to what Grigson inherited and IMO , I think it stunk.

[dw49]

Nice post, NE was a really good team in the early 2000's because they played GREAT D and RAN THE BALL.

 

NOT Tom Brady carrying them.    He was a game manager.    

 

Now it's all Tom Brady and NO D and not a consistent running game.      and they come up short.

 

But to your post, NE has not drafted well at all.     BB is what he is, water finds it's level.   

 

Some seem to forget the GREAT BB coached the Browns for 5 years in the 90's with a pretty good QB in Vinny T.    And flopped.

 

The NFL is a crazy league.

 

 

 

Yea it is a crazy league and I do agree that the two most important criteria for winning a SB are running the ball and stopping the run. The game is always changing in one way or another but for the most part , that holds up.

[NewColtsFan]

I misunderstood. Yeah, I kind of agree that Grigson approached the line that way, aside from signing Satele, which didn't quite work out. There's also the injuries, which are no one's fault.

I'm not pretending that Polian didn't leave a mess for Grigson. I'm just saying that Grigson could have done more, given the tough circumstances he was faced with. Like Freeney. And this isn't just hindsight; I preached for weeks and months that we should do something with Freeney's contract. Not just a "we should cut Freeney, he sucks!" kind of thing, either. Specifically suggesting ways we could lower his cap hit, especially with the offensive line in mind.

Grigson isn't perfect, of course. But he's done a heck of a job. I'm just saying that, even with the cards he was dealt, he didn't HAVE TO take the "cheap patchwork o-line" route. He chose to. And that decision wasn't about the junk squad Polian left him.

 

 

I'm not suggesting this did happen....   I'm only asking if you, or anyone else here thinks it might have happened....

 

Any chance that since Irsay was taking such a public relations hit for the release of Manning, he asked Grigson to keep Freeney so as not to take a double-hit of releasing the teams' two giant stars at the same time?

 

Again,  just askin...    I have no stake in the answer.....

[John Dee]

From what I remember, DFree was a 19m cap hit.     if they released him it would not have saved the team that much?   5m maybe?    It was just not economically a good move to cut DFree out right.      If I remember right?

 

And I could be wrong...     I have been many times before.    BUT, IMO Freeney was the most overrated player in the NFL for a long time.         A one trick pony that had no regard for stopping the run.     And it KILLED INDY so many times.  I mean watch JJ Watt, JPP, or Peppers ...          D Free is not anywhere near their league.   

 

 

But whatever...  he is gone.......  finally.  ;)    So tired of seeing a running back run right bye D Free for a gasher.

I'm not suggesting this did happen....   I'm only asking if you, or anyone else here thinks it might have happened....

 

Any chance that since Irsay was taking such a public relations hit for the release of Manning, he asked Grigson to keep Freeney so as not to take a double-hit of releasing the teams' two giant stars?

 

Again,  just askin...    I have no stake in the answer.....

[NewColtsFan]

From what I remember, DFree was a 19m cap hit.     if they released him it would not have saved the team that much?   5m maybe?    It was just not economically a good move to cut DFree out right.      If I remember right?

 

And I could be wrong...     I have been many times before.    BUT, IMO Freeney was the most overrated player in the NFL for a long time.         A one trick pony that had no regard for stopping the run.     And it KILLED INDY so many times.  I mean watch JJ Watt, JPP, or Peppers ...          D Free is not anywhere near their league.   

 

 

But whatever...  he is gone.......  finally.  ;)    So tired of seeing a running back run right bye D Free for a gasher.

 

Actually,  I think your math is backward....

 

Superman's posts have been saying out of $19m we would've taken a $5m hit and saved $14m....   so there was that incentive to do that....

 

Appreciate your thoughts on DFree....   I think I'll stay out of that "Oh, yes he is!   Oh, no he's not!" debate....  

[Superman]

From what I remember, DFree was a 19m cap hit.     if they released him it would not have saved the team that much?   5m maybe?    It was just not economically a good move to cut DFree out right.      If I remember right?

 

And I could be wrong...     I have been many times before.    BUT, IMO Freeney was the most overrated player in the NFL for a long time.         A one trick pony that had no regard for stopping the run.     And it KILLED INDY so many times.  I mean watch JJ Watt, JPP, or Peppers ...          D Free is not anywhere near their league.   

 

 

But whatever...  he is gone.......  finally.  ;)    So tired of seeing a running back run right bye D Free for a gasher.

 

Would have saved us $14m.

 

I'm a big Freeney fan and supporter, by the way. We could parse details all day (night) on his ability and impact, but suffice it to say that I think you overstate his overratedness (????). Either way, I don't think we should have kept him last season without addressing his contract. 

[Superman]

I'm not suggesting this did happen....   I'm only asking if you, or anyone else here thinks it might have happened....

 

Any chance that since Irsay was taking such a public relations hit for the release of Manning, he asked Grigson to keep Freeney so as not to take a double-hit of releasing the teams' two giant stars at the same time?

 

Again,  just askin...    I have no stake in the answer.....

 

I've actually suggested that myself in the past. Don't know whether it happened or not, but it's a legitimate possibility. Still a mistake. And to the point, it isn't Polian's fault. The current management team could have done things differently than they did.

[John Dee]

Ok...   Wow..  I am lazy and don't really care.

 

But why would indy keep him?

 

I'm going to check this out 2morrow.   I am sure i am wrong. 

 

If they could have got cap relief he would have been GONE.

 

Dwight makes one or two plays a game and .....   that is it.

 

oh well...   it's late and he is GONE.

[crazycolt1]

A couple of plays away from 5 SB wins is tough to argue with. I think where they have been really stellar is keeping the right players at the right cost and finding cheaper free agents that are good fits. Other than lucking out with Brady in round 6 , I don't think they have drafted any better than the middle of the pack. They have no doubt manipulated for extra picks but Im not sure how well they utilized them.

Thats true about the Pats finale amount of draft picks that don't pan out. But with that in mind They seen to trade high dollar players when their value is high in turn that salary is gone off the books. The long term players are the ones who don't want to break the bank at the end of their contracts. It's hard to break human nature in players wanting too much money after the team wins 12 plus games a year on a regular bases. Both the Pats and the Steelers have had success by putting together balanced teams across the board by not keeping high dollar players around. Both of those teams have groomed their fan base to realise that big name players who draw big contracts does not help the team in the bigger picture. 

[crazycolt1]

You don't overpay your own and pick up good value free agents

Seems to work for the Pats and the Steelers. 

[crazycolt1]

I've actually suggested that myself in the past. Don't know whether it happened or not, but it's a legitimate possibility. Still a mistake. And to the point, it isn't Polian's fault. The current management team could have done things differently than they did.

You seem to have this criss cross opinion of Polian. Yes Polian did some fantastic things when he started in Indy. Right or wrong success is measured by super bowl wins. The bottom line is Polian is 1 -17 in super bowl bids. History will remember the Colts and the Bills are the teams who couldn't win when it was all on the line. The team he put together in Carolina was not built from scratch as he had NFL forced players taken from other NFL teams. I give credit to Polian in evaluating players but it can't be dismissed his lack of talent in being a strong GM when it came to managing the money side. Keven Colbert (Steelers), Nick Caserio ( Patriots) and Ozzie Newsome (Ravens) have all won multi super bowls by being smart on the business (money) side of football operations. After years of seeing what works Irsay finally brought in personal that hopefully fits that mold. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Ok...   Wow..  I am lazy and don't really care.

 

But why would indy keep him?

 

I'm going to check this out 2morrow.   I am sure i am wrong. 

 

If they could have got cap relief he would have been GONE.

 

Dwight makes one or two plays a game and .....   that is it.

 

oh well...   it's late and he is GONE.

 

I thought they kept Freeney because they hoped to get 1 good year out of him . Which did'nt happen . He was terrible against the run as usual & he just looked out of place . Hind sight is 20 20  whether paying Freeney for playing or 18 for sitting out the year  these moves cost alot & the Colts ended up with nothing to show for it  .

 

Maybe Grigson should have cut them both in hind sight it would have been a good move Right ?  Money wise , Colts fans would have revolted  & there would be even more Indy based Bronco fans .

 

Ryan Grigson is not Mr Perfect but he inherited a mess & made it work  .

 

Bill Polian did pretty good but he never fixed our defense . Ryan Grigson looks like he has . This new Colts team has something going for it that no Polian team started the year with that is balanced & built to stop the RUN .

 

 

 

With Andrew Luck the GM & Owner has made it a point to surround 12 with everything he needs to be successful  unlike the 18 era where the front office dropped the ball & Colts playoff runs were short lived .

 

Offense draws crowds & Defense wins games as Colts fans who knows this better than us .

[In Luck We Trust]

So you think Holmes is a chronic ankle sprainer? Lol

you can laugh about it, but that goes a long way for an offensive lineman. they have to use their legs and feet more then anything else on their body and if he has that issue keep flaring up especially so soon into his NFL career he will be no good to andrew luck. it doesn't help matters that we lost another OL also. and when it is reported that most of the pressure on luck in training camp is coming from the middle of the line at the center and guard positions this could be a repeat of last year. and playing very good defensive teams like san fran , seattle, denver, and houston all who of which have top 10 defenses could possibly hurt us going into the season. all im saying is we would have been better off drafting a better offensive lineman in the third round and getting Jones or schwenke 

[BOTT]

you can laugh about it, but that goes a long way for an offensive lineman. they have to use their legs and feet more then anything else on their body and if he has that issue keep flaring up especially so soon into his NFL career he will be no good to andrew luck. it doesn't help matters that we lost another OL also. and when it is reported that most of the pressure on luck in training camp is coming from the middle of the line at the center and guard positions this could be a repeat of last year. and playing very good defensive teams like san fran , seattle, denver, and houston all who of which have top 10 defenses could possibly hurt us going into the season. all im saying is we would have been better off drafting a better offensive lineman in the third round and getting Jones or schwenke

You are concerned about Homes rolling his ankle, but you're ok with Jones who is coming off lisfranc surgery?

[dw49]

Thats true about the Pats finale amount of draft picks that don't pan out. But with that in mind They seen to trade high dollar players when their value is high in turn that salary is gone off the books. The long term players are the ones who don't want to break the bank at the end of their contracts. It's hard to break human nature in players wanting too much money after the team wins 12 plus games a year on a regular bases. Both the Pats and the Steelers have had success by putting together balanced teams across the board by not keeping high dollar players around. Both of those teams have groomed their fan base to realise that big name players who draw big contracts does not help the team in the bigger picture. 

 

 

That's true , I forgot about those trades that involved players they figured they wouldn't resign when their contracts were up.

[In Luck We Trust]

You are concerned about Homes rolling his ankle, but you're ok with Jones who is coming off lisfranc surgery?

I did not know he had surgery. i dont pay awhole lot of attention to other teams 3rd round picks. 

[Restored]

So before the new CBA , GMs were really better off not drafting a potentially great QB because it would take too much cap space ? I know that this is not what you mean or believe but what you have regarding Polian's tenure with Manning , it could be said this is what you infer.

In reference to Peyton and Polian, Polian at one point asked Irsay to trade Peyton for a kings ransom after the 2003/2004 season (see Irsay-B.Kravitz interview). Polian claimed if they did that, they could build a team like the the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs.

Go ahead and draft a superstar QB under the previous CBA and say goodbye to atleast 1/5 of your cap.

[Restored]

That bolded part is hard to just blow past. No one drafts perfectly, but our drafting really started a snowball effect that hurt the team. I've outlined my thoughts on this in the past, so I won't bore you with details, but the poor drafting led to us overspending on our own vets, which led to the dead cap space of 2012. The poor drafting affected every corner of the roster, to the point that we didn't have a satisfactory cornerback on the team at the end of 2011, aside from the oft-injured Jerraud Powers.

Really, when you look at the mess Grigson inherited, it starts and ends with poor drafting. It doesn't help that Polian wouldn't do anything in free agency to supplement the talent-depleted roster, but the roster was talent-depleted to begin with because of poor drafting over several years.

Like you said, hopefully it's different this time. But what won't be different is that, after 2016, we'll have a highly paid quarterback, again taking up 1/6 of the cap (or something like that, given the going rate right now). The question is whether the drafting keeps good talent around him, whether we make mistakes in free agency (either our own or bringing new guys in), and whether we have a reasonable amount of health and luck (not Luck, but that too).

I agree and my whole point is that Polians blueprint was strictly tied to drafting well due to the cap situation so if at any point he started missing on draft picks (which he did from about 2007 on) the team would begin to crumble. Peyton just covered it up extremely well.

In my mind, the Colts had a period of 5 years where they should of won multiple championships (2003-2007). During that time, Polian could of went "all in" so to speak and bring in any outside talent that could of put the team really over the top. As you noted, Polians stubbornness on FA prevented that.

[dw49]

In reference to Peyton and Polian, Polian at one point asked Irsay to trade Peyton for a kings ransom after the 2003/2004 season (see Irsay-B.Kravitz interview). Polian claimed if they did that, they could build a team like the the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs.

Go ahead and draft a superstar QB under the previous CBA and say goodbye to atleast 1/5 of your cap.

 

 

It's all relevant. No matter who you drafted at the top of the draft under the old CB , you were going to hand out a huge contract. If that player was a bust , that franchise would have cap problems when you cut him. If that player disappointed , you would have an over priced guy.The GM's back then and now will take a franchise QB if he is there. The GM's now are paying the QB's 20-25 million or the 1/5 th of the cap you speak of . Look at the Flacco contract and take it from there. Go ahead at look at t from all the angles. All the teams with high priced QB's are at least figured to contend. GB had no issue paying Rodgers, NO paid Brees , teams were in line to give Manning 20mill at age 36 and they didn't even know how much arm strength would return.

 

As far as Polian wanting to trade Manning , the rhetoric coming out regarding that would tend to make you think it was something he just shot out there out of frustration of not being able to do that 98 mill deal. Pretty sure that was the case but Polian has come out with so much crap over the years .. who knows ?

[Superman]

You seem to have this criss cross opinion of Polian. Yes Polian did some fantastic things when he started in Indy. Right or wrong success is measured by super bowl wins. The bottom line is Polian is 1 -17 in super bowl bids. History will remember the Colts and the Bills are the teams who couldn't win when it was all on the line. The team he put together in Carolina was not built from scratch as he had NFL forced players taken from other NFL teams. I give credit to Polian in evaluating players but it can't be dismissed his lack of talent in being a strong GM when it came to managing the money side. Keven Colbert (Steelers), Nick Caserio ( Patriots) and Ozzie Newsome (Ravens) have all won multi super bowls by being smart on the business (money) side of football operations. After years of seeing what works Irsay finally brought in personal that hopefully fits that mold. 

 

I don't have a criss cross opinion of Polian. I have a comprehensive opinion of him. I recognize both his positives and his negatives. I couldn't disagree more with your characterization of the "bottom line" of analyzing a GM's success or failure, but that's neither here nor there. This really isn't about Polian, to me.

 

The point, as it pertains to this particular thread, is that Ryan Grigson has to take ownership for the state of the offensive line last season because of specific decisions he made. Yes, he was handed a mess. Yes, he did a fantastic job improving the roster, for the most part. Yes, he took Polian's dysfunctional 2-14 team and made decisions that helped lead to an 11-5 season. And far and away, he deserved to be the Executive of the Year in 2012.

 

But there were decisions he could have made that would have allowed him to do more with the offensive line. As bad as things were when he took over, he still had the resources and circumstances to do more than he did with the line. So I reject the idea that Polian's mismanagement prevented Grigson from improving the offensive line in 2012. It did not. Grigson has to take ownership for the roster he put on the field, specifically because Grigson had the ability to do more.

[Superman]

Ok...   Wow..  I am lazy and don't really care.

 

But why would indy keep him?

 

I'm going to check this out 2morrow.   I am sure i am wrong. 

 

If they could have got cap relief he would have been GONE.

 

Dwight makes one or two plays a game and .....   that is it.

 

oh well...   it's late and he is GONE.

 

His base salary in 2012 was $14m. Yes, that means we paid him $14m in 2012, cash. No, that $14m wasn't fully guaranteed, not until the start of the regular season. Yes, we could have released him prior to the start of the regular season and saved that $14m in cash and against the cap, or we could have spent it elsewhere. Yes, we could have asked him to take a pay cut in 2012 (no telling what the outcome would have been). Yes, we could have extended his contract and reduced his 2012 base salary and cap hit. Yes, he was grossly overpaid in 2012.

 

Yes, it is too late, and he is gone.

 

Keep in mind, I'm a Freeney fan and a Grigson fan. I just don't think we handled the situation the best way we could have. And I said this over a year ago, before it happened.

[Superman]

You are concerned about Homes rolling his ankle, but you're ok with Jones who is coming off lisfranc surgery?

 

Kinda silly, huh?

[Superman]

In reference to Peyton and Polian, Polian at one point asked Irsay to trade Peyton for a kings ransom after the 2003/2004 season (see Irsay-B.Kravitz interview). Polian claimed if they did that, they could build a team like the the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs.

Go ahead and draft a superstar QB under the previous CBA and say goodbye to atleast 1/5 of your cap.

 

Manning's contract, at its worst, took up 1/6 of the Colts' cap. At its worst.

 

And really, that's the price of doing business in the NFL anymore. You don't get rid of your franchise quarterback and go try to find another one if you don't have to. You pay your franchise quarterback, and try to work everything else out. Manning was worth every penny he got. The problem is that the guys around him didn't live up to their contracts and/or draft status, and the roster was never as balanced as it should have been (with the exception of 2005 and maybe 2007, but injuries robbed us in 2007).

 

Even now, with the new CBA, quarterbacks are still going to take up 15% of the cap. I really like the structure of Aaron Rodgers' new contract because of how balanced it is; it's only slightly backloaded, but the anticipation is that the cap is going to start increasing more aggressively in a couple years or so, so that's fine. But next season, he'll account for about 14-15% of the cap. Should the Packers have let Rodgers go and drafted a new quarterback?

 

There are no veteran contracts for the new CBA draftees yet; we'll get an idea of how that process goes starting in 2014, when the Panthers have to exercise their Year 5 option on Cam Newton, and then in 2016, when they have to negotiate a new deal with him. But all indications are that quarterbacks will continue to be costly under the new CBA, once their rookie contracts expire.