Can We Talk Next Draft Without Luck?

[swflacoltsfans]

Talking about the draft now is way too early. Predictions don't normally work out even a week ahead of the draft unless you are in the top three which we could be this year.

[J@son]

Talking about the draft now is way too early. Predictions don't normally work out even a week ahead of the draft unless you are in the top three which we could be this year.

Of course it's too early....draft boards will change dramatically from now to then and there's no way to even begin to predict the final draft order. Doesn't make it any less fun to consider though so the majority of us will continue to do so.

[Steagles]

Of course it's too early....draft boards will change dramatically from now to then and there's no way to even begin to predict the final draft order. Doesn't make it any less fun to consider though so the majority of us will continue to do so.

We do what's fun and distracts us from the disaster of our season.

[mightisright]

Typically when you mention a free agent acquisition, at least I found on the old forum, that it became a very critical issue, I was simply saying getting the right free agent doesn’t mean over paying for a person either.. but I am not sure about the cheap part, sometimes you get what you pay for.

agreed!

[ALuck12]

Kellen Moore anybody?

[J@son]

Kellen Moore anybody?

I hope that I'm wrong and I'm going to continue watching Boise State's games, but my opinion right now is that Kellen Moore has a very limited future in the NFL and will probably not ever be anything more than a backup.

[hawkeyes]

Kellen Moore anybody?

YES! The guy reminds me of Elway - he will be a star in the league!

[Thewholefnshow28]

I would take Luck in a heart beat, but there might be some issues down the road if Manning does play out his contract and the new CBA.

If Manning plays for another four years then that means Luck is sitting on the bench for four more years. By year two or three we have to make up our mind to pick up Luck's final year. Depending on how long Manning wants to play we could be paying him top tier QB money and paying Luck top tier QB money. Once you pick up that option for the final year you got to pay Luck top QB money. That could cripple our cap number that year.

If we miss out on Luck I would like to see us target a LT like Kalil and move AC over to RT. If we miss on Luck I would just like to see us solidify the offensive line even more.

[Balzer40]

YES! The guy reminds me of Elway - he will be a star in the league!

Wow, I have no idea how you see Elway in Kellen Moore. They are nothing alike. Elway was a big strong armed QB and Moore is exactly the opposite. Moore is not even 6'0" tall and has a very weak arm. Moore is a left handed version of Chad Pennington and is the polar opposite of Elway, he will be lucky to be a good backup in the NFL.

[doogansquest]

If we miss out on Luck I would like to see us target a LT like Kalil and move AC over to RT. If we miss on Luck I would just like to see us solidify the offensive line even more.

You make good points about Luck playing back up and the CBA, but please stop with the Kalil stuff. Every post, in every thread. It's just not logical, for one, because we drafted AC to be our LT of the future. So far, he's doing very well as a rookie. We arent going to move him, draft another rookie to start, and screw up whatever continuity we hoped to gain from that unit this season. We need another interior lineman or two to replace Saturday, Diem, and/or Pollak. Ijalana will take over for one of them, and those guys can be had in later rounds.

[J@son]

I would take Luck in a heart beat, but there might be some issues down the road if Manning does play out his contract and the new CBA.

If Manning plays for another four years then that means Luck is sitting on the bench for four more years. By year two or three we have to make up our mind to pick up Luck's final year. Depending on how long Manning wants to play we could be paying him top tier QB money and paying Luck top tier QB money. Once you pick up that option for the final year you got to pay Luck top QB money. That could cripple our cap number that year.

If we miss out on Luck I would like to see us target a LT like Kalil and move AC over to RT. If we miss on Luck I would just like to see us solidify the offensive line even more.

I really don't get this obsession to draft Kalil, another LT when we've already drafted the LT and RT for the future. If Castonzo or Ijalana turn out to be a bust then sure, draft a new franchise LT. However, we can just as easily shore up the OL by drafting OG's who are used to playing OG as their natural position and not have to use a top 5 pick to do it..

[Balzer40]

You make good points about Luck playing back up and the CBA, but please stop with the Kalil stuff. Every post, in every thread. It's just not logical, for one, because we drafted AC to be our LT of the future. So far, he's doing very well as a rookie. We arent going to move him, draft another rookie to start, and screw up whatever continuity we hoped to gain from that unit this season. We need another interior lineman or two to replace Saturday, Diem, and/or Pollak. Ijalana will take over for one of them, and those guys can be had in later rounds.

Thank you, There are 3 or 4 posters here that keep saying this and no matter how many times you point out that there is absolutely nothing logical about that scenario, they just keep repeating it. I understand if they like the guy but he has no future with the Colts.

[Thewholefnshow28]

You make good points about Luck playing back up and the CBA, but please stop with the Kalil stuff. Every post, in every thread. It's just not logical, for one, because we drafted AC to be our LT of the future. So far, he's doing very well as a rookie. We arent going to move him, draft another rookie to start, and screw up whatever continuity we hoped to gain from that unit this season. We need another interior lineman or two to replace Saturday, Diem, and/or Pollak. Ijalana will take over for one of them, and those guys can be had in later rounds.

You need to relax. I mention his name in maybe two threads so you can stop acting like I run around proclaiming him as a must draft.

Jesus people I said I would like to see us target him. I did not say he was a must draft. He is one of the better LT prospects to come out in awhile and will probably be the BPA. Of course stocks will go up and go down and I much rather target a DT, but nobody right now screams top 3 or 4. If by draft day he is the best player available at three or four then to me you take him instead of a lesser player all because you drafted someone in that spot a year before.

Heck if we drafted Saffold last year I would have been thrilled if we went AC in the first and Ilajana in the second.

Depending on contract situations with Wayne we might want to look at Ashlon Jefferies. Peyton has never had a physical gifted WR like him.

With our crappy secondary Kirkpatrick would not be bad worth targeting either if we trade down.

[J@son]

You need to relax. I mention his name in maybe two threads so you can stop acting like I run around proclaiming him as a must draft.

Jesus people I said I would like to see us target him. I did not say he was a must draft. He is one of the better LT prospects to come out in awhile and will probably be the BPA. Of course stocks will go up and go down and I much rather target a DT, but nobody right now screams top 3 or 4. If by draft day he is the best player available at three or four then to me you take him instead of a lesser player all because you drafted someone in that spot a year before.

Heck if we drafted Saffold last year I would have been thrilled if we went AC in the first and Ilajana in the second.

Depending on contract situations with Wayne we might want to look at Ashlon Jefferies. Peyton has never had a physical gifted WR like him.

With our crappy secondary Kirkpatrick would not be bad worth targeting either if we trade down.

2 problems with what I put in red...1, if you're looking at Kalil then you're looking at a top 5 pick...no way he's the BPA by such a large margin that we would draft him over another position of a much greater need. 2. If were to be the BPA by a mile then you still don't take him unless your plan is to trade either him or Castonzo. There's no need to have 2 franchise LT's on the roster making franchise LT salary...which is the highest on the OL and one of the highest paid positions on the offense in general.

[Portage Coltfans]

I would have no issues making our O-line better than it is already. It is by far the most important (non-QB) position on the offense.

A bad RB can run behind a Good O-line, but a good RB can't run behind a bad O-line. (except barry sanders......) as for pass blocking it is the same.

Do you ever see Tom Brady getting hurried/rushed/sacked? not too often at all

How would Luck help us win a Superbowl in 2012-13-14? he wouldn't. We need players who help win now, not in 2016

[jackbutton96]

I already mentioned the scenario I'm about to mention in an earlier post, but nobody responded and now the conversation is more relevant to what I stated, so I'm gonna mention it again. I'd like to see us trade our top pick (whether it be the #1 or #5 or somewhere in between) for some team's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd middle round picks (potentially plus even more). With their mid-first round pick we could take Cordy Glenn, G from Georgia (6'5", 348 lbs), this kid is a frickin' tank! Then, with our second round pick, we could take Kelechi Osemele, G from Iowa State (6'5", 347 lbs), who is also a frickin' tank! Then with their mid-second round pick we could take any number of players, but I particularly like: Nick Toon, WR from Wisconsin (6'3", 220 lbs) who is the son of Al Toon and is a big, physical WR - Ryan Broyles, WR from Oklahoma (5'11", 188) who is a very good WR as well as an exceptional kick returner, and is excellent running after the catch - or LaMichael James, RB from Oregon (5'9", 195 lbs) who is an excellent RB that is capable of taking it the distance on any given play (I've got a hunch this kid is gonna be the next Barry Sanders). Then with our 3rd round pick, we can take Ben Jones, C from Georgia (6'3", 316 lbs), who is rated the second overall center at this point and has been playing alongside Cordy Glenn for the last 4 years. Drafting both of them could prove to be a very wise move as they already have the chemistry together and can help ease the transition to the NFL for each other. This would give us the pieces necessary to have one of the best olines in the NFL for the next 10+ years and give Manning an oline like Elway played behind in the twilight of his career as he won 2 Superbowls. Any thoughts?

As far as defense, we can address that via free agency and in the later rounds...

[dn4192]

So I started this topic to talk about next year's draft with people who want to help bring in more talent around Manning. I know I am assuming he will be healthy but for this thread lets give it the benefit of the theoretical doubt. I don't watch college football, so can you guys tell me who to look up that we could realistically get? To help get Manning back to the SB next year! The whole Luck topic has gotten really old for me. People, WE WONT GET THE NUMBER ONE PICK. There are at least 3 other teams worse than us! So can we please talk next year with that in mind? Thanks!

After this weekend the odds of us getting the number 1 pick went up. Depending on what/how Minn handles their QB issue it may come down to us and Miami.

[dn4192]

I would have no issues making our O-line better than it is already. It is by far the most important (non-QB) position on the offense.

A bad RB can run behind a Good O-line, but a good RB can't run behind a bad O-line. (except barry sanders......) as for pass blocking it is the same.

Do you ever see Tom Brady getting hurried/rushed/sacked? not too often at all

How would Luck help us win a Superbowl in 2012-13-14? he wouldn't. We need players who help win now, not in 2016

No matter whom we draft...our window is basically closed, we need to start building for 2015 and on and to pass on Luck would be stupid.

[GoColts00]

since we're leaving Luck out of the equation....

IF Tyrann Mathieu decides to enter the NFL Draft this year, I would pick him in the 1st Rd. The guy is a Phenom!!!

[Balzer40]

since we're leaving Luck out of the equation....

IF Tyrann Mathieu decides to enter the NFL Draft this year, I would pick him in the 1st Rd. The guy is a Phenom!!!

I've mentioned it many times but there are 2 posistions I would never draft in the 1st rd.(Of course this is just my opinion), thats RB and CB.

RB's in the NFL have become a dime a dozen and most of the time their careers never last that long.

CB's for some teams are a good idea to draft early, but not the way the Colts play defense. We play far too much zone coverage for an elite CB to make much difference in our defense IMO. Not only that but this kid is tiny and Im not sure he will have the success in the NFL that he's had in college.

[Coffeedrinker]

I will respect the OP and ignore the Luck discussion. I've already floated the idea out there and I've seen a handful of people propose the same idea, but there's also a certain amount of people who want to disagree. I say we draft Kalil -- the standout left tackle at USC. "Why would you do that when we drafted two tackles last year?" I like the idea of Ijanala at guard. I think he can pull it off. They guy is smart and has solid skills. Then we kick Castanzo over to RT. Allow him to develop this year at LT so that protecting Manning next year won't be as much of a surprise. "But Castanzo plays Lt. That's where he supposed to play." The guy can easily make the transition from the left side to the right side. He's smart and has a solid work ethic that will help him pull off the transition. Then we put Kalil at left tackle, who seems (although it is still early to tell) to be an outstanding prospect at the left tackle position. Almost like a Joe Thomas or Jake Long type. Then our O line has the potential to look like this: Kalil, Reitz, Pollack (I'm guessing Saturday will consider retirement), Ijanala (same goes for Diem) Castanzo. So if we draft a young QB later in the draft at least we will have a solid O line to protect whoever is behind center. Plus we get to run the ball -- something we've not been accustomed to. The point is that once Peyton is gone, the Colts will no longer be the same team. No more no huddles (not immediately anyways); no more hurrying to the line to catch a lazy defense off sides or in the middle of their rotation; no more quick releases. The odds are we will have to focus on being a more balanced team. What's so wrong with that? Run. Pass. Play action. Keep our D off the field. A Solid offensive line is key to our overall play. And even better, they'll be young. So they can only get better for years to come.

Now I welcome that guy who is going to say, "No, no, no. We drafted two tackles last year."

This makes next to no sense. AC, in 3 games has already proven to be a very good LT and, as you stated, is smart and has excellent work ethic so there is no reason to think he will not become a top tier LT. And you want to move him to RT so they can draft another guy to play LT? Second it is much tougher to move from the left side to the right side (or vice versa) than most people realize. You practice over and over again so the movement of your hands, feet, body, head becomes muscle memory and then asks someone to do the exact opposite. It can be done and there are some players who do it but there is no reason to do it in this case. If AC was struggling then I can see this argument but from the games I watched he is performing better than any other LT taking in the draft.

Then you want to move Ijalana to guard because you think he can pull it off? Based on what exactly? As I mentioned above, he is trying to retrain his body to do everything exactly the opposite of what he had been doing for the past 4 years. That is 53 games, roughly 400 practices and roughly 10,000+reps learning things one way and people act like because he hasn't made the conversion in 7 weeks he can't. That is ridiculous. I have no problem with drafting a RT if the Colts do not feel Ijalana is going to make it at RT. But to spend a first round draft pick on one does not make sense. And it makes even less sense to spend another first round pick on a LT.

[J@son]

I already mentioned the scenario I'm about to mention in an earlier post, but nobody responded and now the conversation is more relevant to what I stated, so I'm gonna mention it again. I'd like to see us trade our top pick (whether it be the #1 or #5 or somewhere in between) for some team's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd middle round picks (potentially plus even more). With their mid-first round pick we could take Cordy Glenn, G from Georgia (6'5", 348 lbs), this kid is a frickin' tank! Then, with our second round pick, we could take Kelechi Osemele, G from Iowa State (6'5", 347 lbs), who is also a frickin' tank! Then with their mid-second round pick we could take any number of players, but I particularly like: Nick Toon, WR from Wisconsin (6'3", 220 lbs) who is the son of Al Toon and is a big, physical WR - Ryan Broyles, WR from Oklahoma (5'11", 188) who is a very good WR as well as an exceptional kick returner, and is excellent running after the catch - or LaMichael James, RB from Oregon (5'9", 195 lbs) who is an excellent RB that is capable of taking it the distance on any given play (I've got a hunch this kid is gonna be the next Barry Sanders). Then with our 3rd round pick, we can take Ben Jones, C from Georgia (6'3", 316 lbs), who is rated the second overall center at this point and has been playing alongside Cordy Glenn for the last 4 years. Drafting both of them could prove to be a very wise move as they already have the chemistry together and can help ease the transition to the NFL for each other. This would give us the pieces necessary to have one of the best olines in the NFL for the next 10+ years and give Manning an oline like Elway played behind in the twilight of his career as he won 2 Superbowls. Any thoughts?

As far as defense, we can address that via free agency and in the later rounds...

As of now I'll simply say that we need to see how the OL plays through the rest of the season before going that drastic to rebuilding it. As for the RB...not gonna happen imo. We have our 1-2 in Addai and Carter. I believe Evans is still on the PS but could be wrong. If they're going to look for depth behind Addai and Brown they'll look for UDFA.

I like Broyles but don't think he's worth a 2nd round pick. Currently he's projected on most draft sites that I've seen in the 3rd to 4th and I'd be more ok with that. In the NFL he will likely be a very good slot WR and kick returner but highly unlikely he'll be able to be an outside WR.

No matter whom we draft...our window is basically closed, we need to start building for 2015 and on and to pass on Luck would be stupid.

Well if our window is closed then our best bet would be to trade manning. :thdown:

I've mentioned it many times but there are 2 posistions I would never draft in the 1st rd.(Of course this is just my opinion), thats RB and CB.

RB's in the NFL have become a dime a dozen and most of the time their careers never last that long.

CB's for some teams are a good idea to draft early, but not the way the Colts play defense. We play far too much zone coverage for an elite CB to make much difference in our defense IMO. Not only that but this kid is tiny and Im not sure he will have the success in the NFL that he's had in college.

The colts have been blitzing more and appear to be playing man more frequently than in the past. If this trend continues then a first round CB would be very beneficial. If they revert back to playing zone 90% of the time though then I can definitely see your point.