Indianapolis Colts Taking Right Steps to Protect Andrew Luck

[HarassedOffTheSite]

This article (IMHO) highlights what I believe to have been Grigson & Pagano's only move that I have disagreed with....the hiring of Arians. I believed Stanford Head Coach Brian Shaw should've been hired as our Offensive Coordinator.

 

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/05/06/indianapolis-colts-taking-right-steps-to-protect-andrew-luck/

 

Much has been made of Robert Griffin III‘s knee and the lack of restraint the Washington Redskins exercised in keeping him out of harm’s way last season. However, what’s been far less publicized is the amount of punishment the Indianapolis Colts allowed their own rookie quarterback to take — more than any passer in the league last year. Of course, erstwhile offensive coordinator Bruce Arians wasn’t the one holding onto the ball well after the pocket collapsed. Though Arians’ scheme does maximize the threat of longer-developing routes, Andrew Luck must make his own adjustments going forward even with Arians departing for Arizona.

[NewColtsFan]

Two things....

 

It's David Shaw....  Brian is the Pacers Assist. coach,  formerly a Lakers assist coach.

 

Second,   David Shaw is a hot candidate to be an NFL Head Coach.   There is zero chance at this point he's going back to the NFL as a coordinator.    Zero.

 

He has his dream job.   He makes great money.   He has great support within the university.    He's been an NFL assistant and did NOT like the life.    He has a wife and 3 small kids and the NFL life is not good for that.

 

No chance Shaw would be interested.     I would've preferred an OC with a West Coast background with NFL experience,  but short of that Pep is the guy.     The one thing he's got going for him is that Luck signed off on him.    When Grigson and Pagano approached him Luck to sound him out about Pep,  I'm sure Luck gave a good review,  otherwise, he wouldn't have been hired. That's the canary in the mine-shaft for me.   Luck has signed off,  means Luck feels Pep can do a good job.

 

Now,  let's hope that's the case.....

[southwest1]

This article (IMHO) highlights what I believe to have been Grigson & Pagano's only move that I have disagreed with....the hiring of Arians. I believed Stanford Head Coach Brian Shaw should've been hired as our Offensive Coordinator.

 

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/05/06/indianapolis-colts-taking-right-steps-to-protect-andrew-luck/

Brian, 

 

I just want to be clear that I understand you correctly. You are not happy with the hiring of ever Bruce Arians or Pep Hamilton as INDY OC's? I'm not criticizing you. I just would like to know that a) this question is actually what you meant & b) further clarification as to why you believe that. Bruce performed well in Pagano's absence & he would have never landed the HC job in AZ without it & Andrew's familiarity with Pep should make this 2nd year in the league a smooth transition correct? Feel free to disagree with me. I'm perfectly fine with it. I just would like more detail on your line of reasoning here. That's all. Thank you. 

[ztboiler]

Every time I visit rantsports I get the feeling I am catching some sort of virus.  There is a lot of stuff going on there.  Doesn't make their content irrelevant, just wonder what I caught to get it.

[21isSuperman]

Of course, protecting Luck is #1.  I like how Grigson has brought in a lot of players to see what we can get.  Bring in as many guys as possible and take the best ones

[southwest1]

Again, I realize that Bruce Arians loved to throw the ball as opposed to run & last year our o-line was indeed horrible to say the least. But, it's not as if Brown & Ballard got zero touches last season either. Was Luck hit too much last season? Yes of course, he was. Grigson will remedy that very quickly. 

 

Maybe Brian just likes a certain OC's style, grit, & intensity like I do with DC Rob Ryan. That's alright. There's nothing with that at all. If you like a guy, you like a guy. I get it. No need to qualify that at all IMO. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

David Shaw is a hot candidate to be an NFL Head Coach.   There is zero chance at this point he's going back to the NFL as a coordinator.    Zero. He has his dream job.   He makes great money.   He has great support within the university.    He's been an NFL assistant and did NOT like the life. He has a wife and 3 small kids and the NFL life is not good for that. No chance Shaw would be interested.

 

Thanks for the correction regarding "Brian" Shaw. It didn't read right to me but I was busy.

 

A ton of conjecture there. The fact is neither of us knows...

 

A. If he was offered the position.

B. If offered an Offensive Coordinator position, he would've passed or accepted.

 

Nevertheless, he was my choice. And given the state of our Oline, probably would've been a much better choice. Especially when considering our ability to run the ball vs pass protect.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I just want to be clear that I understand you correctly. You are not happy with the hiring of ever Bruce Arians or Pep Hamilton as INDY OC's? I'm not criticizing you. I just would like to know that a) this question is actually what you meant & b) further clarification as to why you believe that. Bruce performed well in Pagano's absence & he would have never landed the HC job in AZ without it & Andrew's familiarity with Pep should make this 2nd year in the league a smooth transition correct? Feel free to disagree with me. I'm perfectly fine with it. I just would like more detail on your line of reasoning here. That's all. Thank you. 

 

Arians was not our first choice. And he was run out of Pittsburg (not necessarily good or bad, just is what it is). At the time I thought he was a dead fish. I REALLY approved of his handling the team's culture and approach after Pagano went down. But his offensive style would've probably gotten a lesser QB killed. A lot of our success on offense I credit Luck with as opposed to Arians but I did like him (personally). 

 

Nevertheless, we basically focused last year's Free-Agency and Draft selecting guys for Arians' system. He is now gone and we've moved to a West Coast offense. In my opinion, we should've done that from the beginning. With that said, Shaw may well not have wanted to position and maybe we could not find any other competent West Coast guys (highly unlikely).

[John Dee]

Had Indy's OL stayed healthy last season things would have been better.

 

That said Indy's OL was bad..    Andrew Luck "EARNED" BA's contract with Arizona.    

 

Luck was that advanced / CLUTCH...      as a rookie.     It was a very RISKY play.      But, Luck emerged fine and BA emerged a COTY winner.

 

I guarantee you ALL...  there is NOT ONE OTHER ROOKIE QB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL THAT WOULD / COULD HAVE DONE IT.  

 

Andrew Luck is that good.     Oh well...     Arians is gone...  (thank GOD)  And an O that will let LUCK "deal he cards" is being put in place.

[John Dee]

Arians was not our first choice. And he was run out of Pittsburg (not necessarily good or bad, just is what it is). At the time I thought he was a dead fish. I REALLY approved of his handling the team's culture and approach after Pagano went down. But his offensive style would've probably gotten a lesser QB killed. A lot of our success on offense I credit Luck with as opposed to Arians but I did like him (personally). 

 

Nevertheless, we basically focused last year's Free-Agency and Draft selecting guys for Arians' system. He is now gone and we've moved to a West Coast offense. In my opinion, we should've done that from the beginning. With that said, Shaw may well not have wanted to position and maybe we could not find any other competent West Coast guys (highly unlikely).

Don't blame Arian's for "seeing what he saw"  ...   He watched a ROOKIE QB that could basically do everything he asked Ben R to do the year before.    And he ran with it.....

 

It sucks and BA almost got OUR QB killed but ....        Andrew grew up fast last season.   And survived... 

[NewColtsFan]

Thanks for the correction regarding "Brian" Shaw. It didn't read right to me but I was busy.

 

A ton of conjecture there. The fact is neither of us knows...

 

A. If he was offered the position.

B. If offered an Offensive Coordinator position, he would've passed or accepted.

 

Nevertheless, he was my choice. And given the state of our Oline, probably would've been a much better choice. Especially when considering our ability to run the ball vs pass protect.

 

Well...    let's assume he was offered the position.   

 

What's the incentive to go backwards in your career arch?

 

Chip Kelly was an offensive genius at Oregon.   He didn't go backward to be an OC in the NFL.    He went to the NFL as a Head Coach.      Is there any example of a successful college HC going backward to being an OC in the NFL?    It defies logic.

 

As it is,  when Shaw is asked about NFL HC jobs, his response is roughly this....    I'm not leaving Stanford until my youngest kid can graduate college.    His youngest is younger than 10.    So, he's got 10-12 more years at Stanford. 

 

It is possible -- though it's too early to know -- that Shaw is a much better HC than he is an OC, just as Arians was.   Shaw was the Stanford OC until Harbaugh brought in Greg Roman from Baltimore.    Roman got the title of 'running game coordinator' while Shaw kept the OC title,  but those close to the program say it was Roman and not Shaw who had the offense humming along.

 

My point is this...   we don't know how good an OC Shaw would be.    He's a terrific HC, especially on the college level.   Kids love him.   Some think of him as a father figure.    He's very parental.    Not sure that's a match with NFL players.    Either way, I don't see a reason for him to take an OC gig in the NFL?    Why take a giant step backwards?

[NewColtsFan]

Arians was not our first choice. And he was run out of Pittsburg (not necessarily good or bad, just is what it is). At the time I thought he was a dead fish. I REALLY approved of his handling the team's culture and approach after Pagano went down. But his offensive style would've probably gotten a lesser QB killed. A lot of our success on offense I credit Luck with as opposed to Arians but I did like him (personally). 

 

Nevertheless, we basically focused last year's Free-Agency and Draft selecting guys for Arians' system. He is now gone and we've moved to a West Coast offense. In my opinion, we should've done that from the beginning. With that said, Shaw may well not have wanted to position and maybe we could not find any other competent West Coast guys (highly unlikely).

 

Not saying you're wrong,  but that's the first I've heard of that....

 

Can you say how you know this?    Who was the first choice??

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Don't blame Arian's for "seeing what he saw"  ...   He watched a ROOKIE QB that could basically do everything he asked Ben R to do the year before.    And he ran with it....

 

I don't really know what that means but the problem was Grigson and Pagano saw what they saw in Arians being a deep ball guy who ran an offense that requires a QB to have more than 3 seconds. We did NOT have the Oline for that. Arians was ran out of Pittsburg for not running the ball...he apparently learned a lesson from that and went to the ground here. But Luck's skill-set made thing work out in the end. And Arians was IMO a bad choice considering where our Oline was at. 

[John Dee]

I disagree that Shaw is a "HOT" NFL commodity.  

 

The NFL still has a stigma against college coaches....       Give him a few more years at Stanford and see if he can sustain it.

 

If he does then heads will turn.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

What's the incentive to go backwards in your career arch?

 

That's not backwards.

 

Chip Kelly...

 

Has circumstances that have to do with us.

 

As it is,  when Shaw is asked about NFL HC jobs, his response is roughly this....    I'm not leaving Stanford until my youngest kid can graduate college.    His youngest is younger than 10.    So, he's got 10-12 more years at Stanford.

 

That's cool. But that isn't engraved into tablets brought down from Mt. Sinai. It is what it is.

 

It is possible -- though it's too early to know -- that Shaw is a much better HC than he is an OC, just as Arians was.

 

You're correct.

 

My point is this...I don't see a reason for him to take an OC gig in the NFL? Why take a giant step backwards?

 

I do not agree with your premise.

[John Dee]

Indy was "supposed" to be a run first team....    but the OL and D got butchered early and often by injury...    And the season evolved the way it did....   ...     Luck having to save the day.   Or him being put in that position.    

 

It worked out ...

I don't really know what that means but the problem was Grigson and Pagano saw what they saw in Arians being a deep ball guy who ran an offense that requires a QB to have more than 3 seconds. We did NOT have the Oline for that. Arians was ran out of Pittsburg for not running the ball...he apparently learned a lesson from that and went to the ground here. But Luck's skill-set made thing work out in the end. And Arians was IMO a bad choice considering where our Oline was at. 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Indy was "supposed" to be a run first team....    but the OL and D got butchered early and often by injury...    And the season evolved the way it did....   ...     Luck having to save the day.   Or him being put in that position.

 

Just way off. Arians was run out of town for NOT being a run first guy. Someone somewhere might have said something regarding running first...but Grigson/Pagano's action said something else. As did Arians' play calling. And healthy or not...THAT Oline wasn't going to pass protect anyone.

[John Dee]

"WHO" ever said Arians was a "run first guy?"     CHUCK said that...     And Grigs...   But things change....

 

And Arian's tried in Pitt....  but ...    I'm not even going to go into the state of the Steelers.... 

 

 

 

 

Just way off. Arians was run out of town for NOT being a run first guy. Someone somewhere might have said something regarding running first...but Grigson/Pagano's action said something else. As did Arians' play calling. And healthy or not...THAT Oline wasn't going to pass protect anyone.

[John Dee]

Do you know why?       Tomlin will be next...   

 

But ...     who cares? 

 

Just way off. Arians was run out of town for NOT being a run first guy. Someone somewhere might have said something regarding running first...but Grigson/Pagano's action said something else. As did Arians' play calling. And healthy or not...THAT Oline wasn't going to pass protect anyone.

[Gavin]

2001-Browns OC (466 Passes to 417 run)

2002-Browns OC (552 passes to 406 run)

2003-Browns OC (509 passes to 412 run)

2007-Steelers OC (442 passes to 511 runs)

2008-Steelers OC (506 passes to 460 runs)

2009-Steelers OC (536 passes to 428 runs)

2010-Steelers OC (479 passes to 471 runs)

2011-Steelers OC (539 passes to 434 runs)

 

Total pass plays as OC Prior to being hired as Colts OC: 4029

 

Toltal run plays prior to becoming Colts OC: 3539

 

Add on last years run-pass total: 628 pass to 440 rush

 

4657 total pass plays as OC to 3979 rush plays: difference of 678 

 

397.9 rush plays average per season or 398 rush plays to 465.7 or rounded up 466 pass plays average

 

 

 

If my math is accurate

[HarassedOffTheSite]

2001-Browns OC (466 Passes to 417 run)

2002-Browns OC (552 passes to 406 run)

2003-Browns OC (509 passes to 412 run)

2007-Steelers OC (442 passes to 511 runs)

2008-Steelers OC (506 passes to 460 runs)

2009-Steelers OC (536 passes to 428 runs)

2010-Steelers OC (479 passes to 471 runs)

2011-Steelers OC (539 passes to 434 runs)

 

Total pass plays as OC Prior to being hired as Colts OC: 4029

 

Toltal run plays prior to becoming Colts OC: 3539

 

Add on last years run-pass total: 628 pass to 440 rush

 

4657 total pass plays as OC to 3979 rush plays: difference of 678 

 

397.9 rush plays average per season or 398 rush plays to 465.7 or rounded up 466 pass plays average

 

 

 

If my math is accurate

 

Appreciate you putting in the work to post those numbers. Not nearly as lopsided as I expected...but it definitely shows Arians is anything other than a Run first guy.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Not saying you're wrong,  but that's the first I've heard of that....

 

Can you say how you know this?    Who was the first choice??

 

Off the top of my head I cannot remember who we were pursuing but Arians was the 2nd option.

[Gavin]

Appreciate you putting in the work to post those numbers. Not nearly as lopsided as I expected...but it definitely shows Arians is anything other than a Run first guy.

He is slightly more balanced then what some think ( I think that last year was lopsided do to inability to run the ball consistently) but he still quite a bit favors the pass which is not such a bad thing, My problem with him came when he would throw on 3rd and short and 3rd and mediums to often I think 

[NewColtsFan]

Do you know why?       Tomlin will be next...   

 

But ...     who cares? 

 

You think Tomlin's run at Pittsburgh is near an end?

 

All I can say is they've had three head coaches there over a stretch of roughly 50 years.    Three.

 

If Pittsburgh stays true to themselves,  Tomlin isn't going anywhere in the near future.    Whatever problems they have,  I don't think they're with Mike Tomlin.

 

Just my opinion.....

[NewColtsFan]

2001-Browns OC (466 Passes to 417 run)

2002-Browns OC (552 passes to 406 run)

2003-Browns OC (509 passes to 412 run)

2007-Steelers OC (442 passes to 511 runs)

2008-Steelers OC (506 passes to 460 runs)

2009-Steelers OC (536 passes to 428 runs)

2010-Steelers OC (479 passes to 471 runs)

2011-Steelers OC (539 passes to 434 runs)

 

Total pass plays as OC Prior to being hired as Colts OC: 4029

 

Toltal run plays prior to becoming Colts OC: 3539

 

Add on last years run-pass total: 628 pass to 440 rush

 

4657 total pass plays as OC to 3979 rush plays: difference of 678 

 

397.9 rush plays average per season or 398 rush plays to 465.7 or rounded up 466 pass plays average

 

 

 

If my math is accurate

 

 

For me,  it's not just the ratio of runs to passes....   it's that he favors a vertical passing game which requires longer passing routes and therefor,  the o-lineman holding their blocks much longer to give the QB time.

 

That's what made no sense to me last year.   You know you have a poor OL.   Why keep throwing medium and deep passes which requires our poor OL to keep the DL off of Luck for more time....   seems incredibly bass-akwards...   if you follow my meaning....

 

Seems to me we made it harder on ourselves to be successful.    Made for some very frustrating sequences last year.....

[John Dee]

Tomlin wants to play STEELER football...  but he has NO idea how to do it.

 

He inherited a Cummins Diesel ...    and it is now a Buick.   

 

Even Ben has taken a step back.      Pitt with Arians were supposed to run the ball the last few years.   BUT injuries dictate how a team can play.     And Pitt has been forced to throw a lot over the last few years.     Pittsburgh is a throwing team NOW.    And Ben has payed the price.   He is NOT a great throwing QB.    

 

 

Tomlin's Steelers have NO Identity IMO.   All the All Pro's Tomlin walked into are getting old and .....   Now what?

 

Running the football is all about attitude.         The Colts are "investing" in that attitude.     The Steelers have no idea what they are doing.   They fire Arians to hire Haley?   Really?

 

He is not Bill Cowher.     

You think Tomlin's run at Pittsburgh is near an end?

 

All I can say is they've had three head coaches there over a stretch of roughly 50 years.    Three.

 

If Pittsburgh stays true to themselves,  Tomlin isn't going anywhere in the near future.    Whatever problems they have,  I don't think they're with Mike Tomlin.

 

Just my opinion.....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Something in favor of Mike Tomlin... 

 

 

Something in opposition to Mike Tomlin...  

 

John, IMO Rapelisburger is their problem...old school Steelers fans seem to tolerate him more than anything else. And it is quite clear he has no equity with the Rooneys. He'll be gone before Tomlin will.

[Valpo2004]

Two things....

 

It's David Shaw....  Brian is the Pacers Assist. coach,  formerly a Lakers assist coach.

 

Second,   David Shaw is a hot candidate to be an NFL Head Coach.   There is zero chance at this point he's going back to the NFL as a coordinator.    Zero.

 

He has his dream job.   He makes great money.   He has great support within the university.    He's been an NFL assistant and did NOT like the life.    He has a wife and 3 small kids and the NFL life is not good for that.

 

No chance Shaw would be interested.     I would've preferred an OC with a West Coast background with NFL experience,  but short of that Pep is the guy.     The one thing he's got going for him is that Luck signed off on him.    When Grigson and Pagano approached him Luck to sound him out about Pep,  I'm sure Luck gave a good review,  otherwise, he wouldn't have been hired. That's the canary in the mine-shaft for me.   Luck has signed off,  means Luck feels Pep can do a good job.

 

Now,  let's hope that's the case.....

 

I was going to say why would Shaw have been interested in an NFL OC job when he's already a college head coach at a major college football program.  That is sort of a step down.  

 

And also I'm pretty sure there probably was a private conversation with Luck about if he would want Pep back as his OC.  It's not like they would hire an OC that Luck didn't like working with.  

 

With Franchise QB's, the whole team is built around them, even the coaching staff.