Pass Rush & The Draft

[FlyLikeTY]

With all the posts on positional needs, OL, OLB, WR, CB, etc...

 

The real need for this team is someone who can put pressure on the QB. 

 

As a prelude to what we're looking at, I have listed below the expected/assumed contributors for the 2013 season. If I'm missing anyone let me know... I am also not factoring in the defensive line, assuming that a 3/4 defense gets most of its pressure from the linebackers and blitzing DB's. 

 

By the numbers:

 

OLB:

 

R. Mathis - Age: 32 (10 Seasons)  *Missed 4 games in 2012

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

147 428 323 105 91.5

 

E. Walden (5 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

68 154 109 45 9.0
 

(5 seasons to accumulate 9 sacks)

 

J. Hughes (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

40 62 41 21 5.0

(3 seasons to accumulate 5 sacks)

 

 

ILB:

 

P. Angerer (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast

Sck

 

43 264 157 107 2.0

 

K. Conner (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

42 215 123 92 1.0

 

J. Freeman (1 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

16 145 90 55 2.0

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In his 10 year pro career Mathis has recorded 91.5 sacks, and as we all know, he knows how to get to the QB. As for everyone else? A combined 15 seasons for only 19 sacks. That is a huge drop off. 

 

Mathis is going on 33 years old and missed 4 games last season. Behind him we have Jerry Hughes, who has shown to be a borderline bust. *Knock on wood* if Mathis were to go down I'd be very, very worried about our pass rush. 

 

If we are unable to get pressure on the QB, our pass coverage will break down eventually and opposing teams will pick our secondary apart. 

 

With that said, I truly believe that a pass rusher is our biggest need in this draft, wether it comes from OLB, ILB, DT, or DE, it needs to be addressed. 

 

 

****Notice: I realize that defensive schemes dictate who will apply pressure on the QB, it can come from any position. I also realize that the ILB in our system do not rush the passer as often as some other teams. This topic is just a heads up, of what I believe is one of our weakest postions, excluding Mathis, and the lack of talented depth we have. 

 

 

[FlyLikeTY]

This does not look anything like the draft did, I hope it's easy to follow the stats. Sorry!

[james_zeigler1994]

Ya pass rush needs a little bit more work but yet so does the O-line and D-line and the DB backfield thoughts?.

[jshipp23]

DE is our #1 need...Margus Hunt or Deonte Jones, or if rush linebacker Jarvis Jones or Mingo fall to us that would be good too....Our O-line is much improved already and if Iljilana our 2nd rd pick 2 years ago is finally healthy we could be solid at guard...If we draft o-line is should be 4th round or later as you can still find quality guards and centers then...I actually like r receiving corps especially when you factor in the TE's and we've addressed the interior D-line with Francois and Franklin and we have Chapman and McKinney coming back as well so we will be stronger there than we have ever been...DE #1, R-OLB#2, RB#3, CB#4, C#5...That is the direction we should go...If we can get Matheiu in the 3rd to play nickel corner and safety we have to , but I doubt he'll be there.....

[Balzer40]

DE is our #1 need...Margus Hunt or Deonte Jones, or if rush linebacker Jarvis Jones or Mingo fall to us that would be good too....Our O-line is much improved already and if Iljilana our 2nd rd pick 2 years ago is finally healthy we could be solid at guard...If we draft o-line is should be 4th round or later as you can still find quality guards and centers then...I actually like r receiving corps especially when you factor in the TE's and we've addressed the interior D-line with Francois and Franklin and we have Chapman and McKinney coming back as well so we will be stronger there than we have ever been...DE #1, R-OLB#2, RB#3, CB#4, C#5...That is the direction we should go...If we can get Matheiu in the 3rd to play nickel corner and safety we have to , but I doubt he'll be there.....

 

 

 

DE..#1 need??? Redding, Mathews, RJF, Guy, Moala, and Nevis. DE is hardly the #1 need. Guard, rush LBer, are the top 2 needs right now and the rest are arguable, but DE is in pretty good shape right now. I really like Hunt, but I wouldn't draft him in the 1st rd. with him being 26 yrs. old. By the time this guy reaches his 2nd contract it will be time to find his replacement.

[BigDaddy19]

DE is our #1 need...Margus Hunt or Deonte Jones, or if rush linebacker Jarvis Jones or Mingo fall to us that would be good too....Our O-line is much improved already and if Iljilana our 2nd rd pick 2 years ago is finally healthy we could be solid at guard...If we draft o-line is should be 4th round or later as you can still find quality guards and centers then...I actually like r receiving corps especially when you factor in the TE's and we've addressed the interior D-line with Francois and Franklin and we have Chapman and McKinney coming back as well so we will be stronger there than we have ever been...DE #1, R-OLB#2, RB#3, CB#4, C#5...That is the direction we should go...If we can get Matheiu in the 3rd to play nickel corner and safety we have to , but I doubt he'll be there.....

 

I don't think DE is the biggest need, Redding, RJF(projected starter at DE, move to interior in nickel looks), Nevis, Matthews. I think if you are talking pass rush for a 3-4 then OLB is where the pass rush should come from. Regardless of previous sentence, if a JJ Watt type DE is available ( I am not draft savy enough to know if a prospect projects like him) then you draft him as BPA.

 

Edit: I forgot Moala.

[TKnight24]

Mathis has 91.5 sacks??!!! You go Boy!!!!

Lol

[jshipp23]

DE..#1 need??? Redding, Mathews, RJF, Guy, Moala, and Nevis. DE is hardly the #1 need. Guard, rush LBer, are the top 2 needs right now and the rest are arguable, but DE is in pretty good shape right now. I really like Hunt, but I wouldn't draft him in the 1st rd. with him being 26 yrs. old. By the time this guy reaches his 2nd contract it will be time to find his replacement.

Redding is injury prone and Mathis is getting old....Mattews,Guy, Moala, Nevis, Francois are all DT's that can play end in stints but aren't true DE's...We need a true defensive end/rush olb and thats Margus Hunt all day sitting in front of our faces, or we can let Belichick take him and develop him into a monster....smh Hunt being 26 is the only downside but he has only been playing 3 years and has less wear and tear than most high school players and defensive ends have long shelf lives...I'd take Jarvis Jones or Mingo if they fall, but if their gone u gotta take Hunt the upside is too great, no risk no reward, and we have the luxury this year to do that because of the free agency moves we have made...We need a player that can play DE and rush linebacker and dion jordan and margus hunt are the only ones that fit that mold and Jordan will be gone top 5...We can sign G Brandon Moore now and Ilijana our former 2nd rd pick at G will finally be healthy this year too..Their are good guards in rds 4 and 5...

[BOTT]

I true difference maker for the front seven would be nice

[jshipp23]

I don't think DE is the biggest need, Redding, RJF(projected starter at DE, move to interior in nickel looks), Nevis, Matthews. I think if you are talking pass rush for a 3-4 then OLB is where the pass rush should come from. Regardless of previous sentence, if a JJ Watt type DE is available ( I am not draft savy enough to know if a prospect projects like him) then you draft him as BPA.

 

Edit: I forgot Moala.

Margus Hunt fits that mold and if not J.J. Watt he could put on 20 lbs and be a derek smith or jared allen type player...either way he has the athleticism to be moved around and wreak havoc...

[jshipp23]

I true difference maker for the front seven would be nice

 

 

I true difference maker for the front seven would be nice

Exactly!!! You'd think playing against J.J. Watt twice a year people would realize the value here....Margus Hunt or bust..

[Balzer40]

Redding is injury prone and Mathis is getting old....Mattews,Guy, Moala, Nevis, Francois are all DT's that can play end in stints but aren't true DE's...We need a true defensive end/rush olb and thats Margus Hunt all day sitting in front of our faces, or we can let Belichick take him and develop him into a monster....smh Hunt being 26 is the only downside but he has only been playing 3 years and has less wear and tear than most high school players and defensive ends have long shelf lives...I'd take Jarvis Jones or Mingo if they fall, but if their gone u gotta take Hunt the upside is too great, no risk no reward, and we have the luxury this year to do that because of the free agency moves we have made...We need a player that can play DE and rush linebacker and dion jordan and margus hunt are the only ones that fit that mold and Jordan will be gone top 5...We can sign G Brandon Moore now and Ilijana our former 2nd rd pick at G will finally be healthy this year too..Their are good guards in rds 4 and 5...

 

 

 

Ok, you have me lost now. Do you understand the 3-4 defense? Not trying to be rude, but everyone of those guys are 3-4 DE's. Mathis is nowhere near a 3-4 DE. He's an OLBer. Moala's natural position is 3-4 DE. Nevis played DE very well last yr. although I do agree he is more of a natural fit for a 4-3 UT. Point is, as of right now were set at DE. Not saying we won't draft one, but it isn't anywhere near our #1 need.

[Nobody]

Freeman has the second most sacks per year of everyone you listed

[TKnight24]

What about the S converted to OLB from Southern Miss??? Let's grab him

[Nobody]

Ok, you have me lost now. Do you understand the 3-4 defense? Not trying to be rude, but everyone of those guys are 3-4 DE's. Mathis is nowhere near a 3-4 DE. He's an OLBer. Moala's natural position is 3-4 DE. Nevis played DE very well last yr. although I do agree he is more of a natural fit for a 4-3 UT. Point is, as of right now were set at DE. Not saying we won't draft one, but it isn't anywhere near our #1 need.

And how is RJF not a DE? He's only ever played in a 3-4

[In Luck We Trust]

With all the posts on positional needs, OL, OLB, WR, CB, etc...

 

The real need for this team is someone who can put pressure on the QB. 

 

As a prelude to what we're looking at, I have listed below the expected/assumed contributors for the 2013 season. If I'm missing anyone let me know... I am also not factoring in the defensive line, assuming that a 3/4 defense gets most of its pressure from the linebackers and blitzing DB's. 

 

By the numbers:

 

OLB:

 

R. Mathis - Age: 32 (10 Seasons)  *Missed 4 games in 2012

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

147 428 323 105 91.5

 

E. Walden (5 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

68 154 109 45 9.0

 

(5 seasons to accumulate 9 sacks)

 

J. Hughes (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

40 62 41 21 5.0

(3 seasons to accumulate 5 sacks)

 

 

ILB:

 

P. Angerer (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast

Sck

 

43 264 157 107 2.0

 

K. Conner (3 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

42 215 123 92 1.0

 

J. Freeman (1 Seasons)

 

G Comb Total Ast Sck

 

16 145 90 55 2.0

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In his 10 year pro career Mathis has recorded 91.5 sacks, and as we all know, he knows how to get to the QB. As for everyone else? A combined 15 seasons for only 19 sacks. That is a huge drop off. 

 

Mathis is going on 33 years old and missed 4 games last season. Behind him we have Jerry Hughes, who has shown to be a borderline bust. *Knock on wood* if Mathis were to go down I'd be very, very worried about our pass rush. 

 

If we are unable to get pressure on the QB, our pass coverage will break down eventually and opposing teams will pick our secondary apart. 

 

With that said, I truly believe that a pass rusher is our biggest need in this draft, wether it comes from OLB, ILB, DT, or DE, it needs to be addressed. 

 

 

****Notice: I realize that defensive schemes dictate who will apply pressure on the QB, it can come from any position. I also realize that the ILB in our system do not rush the passer as often as some other teams. This topic is just a heads up, of what I believe is one of our weakest postions, excluding Mathis, and the lack of talented depth we have. 

Hughes showed alittle sign of life last year, i was actually impressed with a couple of his games. if im not mistaken he also got a sack in the playoff game. 

 

as far as a pass rusher goes, i do agree we need a pass rusher

[Nobody]

Exactly!!! You'd think playing against J.J. Watt twice a year people would realize the value here....Margus Hunt or bust..

Except Hunt has no technique at all. The person who has the best chance to be a Watt type that should fall to us is Datone Jones.

[In Luck We Trust]

Exactly!!! You'd think playing against J.J. Watt twice a year people would realize the value here....Margus Hunt or bust..

i mentioned hunt and i forgot to realize, he is 26 years old. but i love his hunger, he looks like he could be as good as watt. 

[In Luck We Trust]

Except Hunt has no technique at all. The person who has the best chance to be a Watt type that should fall to us is Datone Jones.

that is funny, because the scouting report on him on NFL AM last thursday i believe it was, said that he has the technique to play in a 3-4 defense standing up.

[Nobody]

that is funny, because the scouting report on him on NFL AM last thursday i believe it was, said that he has the technique to play in a 3-4 defense standing up.

Funny how everyone agreed he had no technique until the combine.

[Balzer40]

I think some don't understand the difference in our defense and what the Texans play. The Texans play a 1 gap 3-4 and we play a 2 gap 3-4. The job of our DE's is not to rush the passer. It is to occupy blockers and allow the LBer's to make plays. If our DE's happen to get a sack, it is a bonus, but with our style of play, we won't be having a J.J. Watt DE. 

[deano]

Hunt has not had the production that you would expect from that size speed combo

I have also heard that because of his height that people can get underneath and push him back

He may be a superstar....... He may be a bust.......

Much less risk with other picks

[jshipp23]

Ok, you have me lost now. Do you understand the 3-4 defense? Not trying to be rude, but everyone of those guys are 3-4 DE's. Mathis is nowhere near a 3-4 DE. He's an OLBer. Moala's natural position is 3-4 DE. Nevis played DE very well last yr. although I do agree he is more of a natural fit for a 4-3 UT. Point is, as of right now were set at DE. Not saying we won't draft one, but it isn't anywhere near our #1 need.

I understand it fine , but those guys are more nose tackles than DE's, rush linebacker is still a defensive end he just stands up...lol, those guys are interior rushers we still need guys who can get to the quarterback around the end....Do you understand the 3-4???Do any of those guys fit the James Harrison, Richard Seymour, Demarcus Ware, shawn Merriman mold?? You can call them a rush linebacker all you want , but their still a defensive end and play with their hand down a lot....

[bahhummbug]

DE..#1 need??? Redding, Mathews, RJF, Guy, Moala, and Nevis. DE is hardly the #1 need. Guard, rush LBer, are the top 2 needs right now and the rest are arguable, but DE is in pretty good shape right now. I really like Hunt, but I wouldn't draft him in the 1st rd. with him being 26 yrs. old. By the time this guy reaches his 2nd contract it will be time to find his replacement.

Agree on G and OLB as the most immediate needs just do not think there will be a G at 24 worth it so go BPA on OLB I hope.Should be able to get a G in 3rd Grigs has said he doesnt want to start a rookie G.And again I remind everyone Grigs played proffesionally on the O-line he knows O-line talent.

[jshipp23]

Hunt has not had the production that you would expect from that size speed combo

I have also heard that because of his height that people can get underneath and push him back

He may be a superstar....... He may be a bust.......

Much less risk with other picks

No risk, no reward....In this instance the reward could be great, imagine him tipping passes ala J.J. Watt and he even has the speed and agility to drop in coverage..

[NewColtsFan]

Except Hunt has no technique at all. The person who has the best chance to be a Watt type that should fall to us is Datone Jones.

 

Hunt is like Ansah.....   each has only played the game for just a couple of years and all on the college level.

 

They're completely raw.     You're not taking him for what he is.....   you'd draft him for what you think he can be.....

 

I'd prefer to trade back to take him....   but I would not be upset if the Colts ultimately select him....

 

I also like Jones very much as well.....

[jshipp23]

Hunt is like Ansah.....   each has only played the game for just a couple of years and all on the college level.

 

They're completely raw.     You're not taking him for what he is.....   you'd draft him for what you think he can be.....

 

I'd prefer to trade back to take him....   but I would not be upset if the Colts ultimately select him....

 

I also like Jones very much as well.....

Hunt would flourish in our program he needs to develop , but I still think he could makes plays and be disruptive as a rookie and he can be moved around and play multiple positions and help on special teams..He has the highest "potential" of ANY PLAYER in the draft...

[Balzer40]

I understand it fine , but those guys are more nose tackles than DE's, rush linebacker is still a defensive end he just stands up...lol, those guys are interior rushers we still need guys who can get to the quarterback around the end....Do you understand the 3-4???Do any of those guys fit the James Harrison, Richard Seymour, Demarcus Ware, shawn Merriman mold?? You can call them a rush linebacker all you want , but their still a defensive end and play with their hand down a lot....

 

 

 

You're not getting that the job of a DE in a 2 gap 3-4 defense that we play, is not to rush the passer. They occupy blockers to allow the LBer's to make the plays. I really don't know how else to explain this but you don't have the right idea of what our 3-4 DE's are supposed to do. 

[jshipp23]

I think some don't understand the difference in our defense and what the Texans play. The Texans play a 1 gap 3-4 and we play a 2 gap 3-4. The job of our DE's is not to rush the passer. It is to occupy blockers and allow the LBer's to make plays. If our DE's happen to get a sack, it is a bonus, but with our style of play, we won't be having a J.J. Watt DE. 

Do the Patriots play the same scheme all the time???? Thank god we don't play Tampa-2 anymore and play the exact same d every week every play which makes it easy to gameplan against...You are trying to do the same with the 3-4???? I gap , or 2 gap it is better to have the personnel to switch it up and play multiple looks to confuse offenses and make us extremely difficult to gameplan for.....

[BOTT]

I think some don't understand the difference in our defense and what the Texans play. The Texans play a 1 gap 3-4 and we play a 2 gap 3-4. The job of our DE's is not to rush the passer. It is to occupy blockers and allow the LBer's to make plays. If our DE's happen to get a sack, it is a bonus, but with our style of play, we won't be having a J.J. Watt DE. 

This why Datone Jones may not be a fit for the Colts

[jshipp23]

You're not getting that the job of a DE in a 2 gap 3-4 defense that we play, is not to rush the passer. They occupy blockers to allow the LBer's to make the plays. I really don't know how else to explain this but you don't have the right idea of what our 3-4 DE's are supposed to do. 

Hunt and Jones can do BOTH and gives us flexibility....You can adjust your scheme accordingly, don't put us in a box...They can both play rush linebacker or "2 gap" de....Maybe Hunt more than Jones but Jones can play rush linebacker and can even play ILB for that matter...

[Nobody]

Hunt would flourish in our program he needs to develop , but I still think he could makes plays and be disruptive as a rookie and he can be moved around and play multiple positions and help on special teams..He has the highest "potential" of ANY PLAYER in the draft...

How about giving some facts/proof to support your rambling?

[Jason_]

I understand it fine , but those guys are more nose tackles than DE's, rush linebacker is still a defensive end he just stands up...lol, those guys are interior rushers we still need guys who can get to the quarterback around the end....Do you understand the 3-4???Do any of those guys fit the James Harrison, Richard Seymour, Demarcus Ware, shawn Merriman mold?? You can call them a rush linebacker all you want , but their still a defensive end and play with their hand down a lot....

 

 

Harrison, Ware and Merriman are considered OLB's in the defenses they play in.  Since Dallas is switching to a 4-3, Ware will become a DE.  There basically are the guys who are OLB/DE hybrid like these guys and Mathis, Hughes etc...and then DE/DT hybrid guys like Nevis, Moala, Redding, RJF etc.  So when you just say DE and talk about the Colt defense, people think you're referring to Moala, Nevis, Redding.  A rush linebacker is still technically a LB.  You are right though, our rush LB will often times play with his hand in the dirt and that's when the line becomes a 4 man front and that guy becomes a DE.

[Balzer40]

Do the Patriots play the same scheme all the time???? Thank god we don't play Tampa-2 anymore and play the exact same d every week every play which makes it easy to gameplan against...You are trying to do the same with the 3-4???? I gap , or 2 gap it is better to have the personnel to switch it up and play multiple looks to confuse offenses and make us extremely difficult to gameplan for.....

 

 

 

We play a base 3-4 defense. Pagano switches it up when we play in the nickle which usually has us in a 4 man front. Nevis, Moala, RJF, Mathews ,and Guy can all play the role of DT when we do that and we still have our NT's that can play DT in a 4 man front. Pagano will disguise our blitz scheme's with our LBer's and or CB's. All I'm trying to say is that with our 2 gap scheme, our DE's are around 300 lbs and have to be able to occupy their blockers. It's a different scheme than what the Texans use and our DE's play a different style than theirs.

[jshipp23]

How about giving some facts/proof to support your rambling?

He has the speed to cover or rush the QB, has the height , strength, and jumping ability to block field goals and punts which he did a lot in college, he can add weight and play the run if we choose to develop him that way and Pagono and Manusky have a track record of developing young players....What proof r you looking for???

[Jason_]

Hunt and Jones can do BOTH and gives us flexibility....You can adjust your scheme accordingly, don't put us in a box...They can both play rush linebacker or "2 gap" de....Maybe Hunt more than Jones but Jones can play rush linebacker and can even play ILB for that matter...

 

I agree they both would bring a lot of flexibility, and they could possibly both play OLB in a 3-4 (that's marginal for Jones though), but I don't think either of them would have the strength to play DE in a 2-gap 3-4.  That said, our defense does not play the same formation and technique all the time.  It is a hybrid defense and they use both 1-gap and 2-gap principles depending on the situation.  I wouldn't discount either player but there very likely could be other guys available who would fit the system better.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

DE..#1 need??? Redding, Mathews, RJF, Guy, Moala, and Nevis. DE is hardly the #1 need. Guard, rush LBer, are the top 2 needs right now and the rest are arguable, but DE is in pretty good shape right now. I really like Hunt, but I wouldn't draft him in the 1st rd. with him being 26 yrs. old. By the time this guy reaches his 2nd contract it will be time to find his replacement.

Redding is aging and I think RJF was brought in to start with him and eventually replace him.

Matthews, Nevis and Guy are merely bodies for depth and Moala is coming off of an injury.

If we could land a biggun to be our version of Haloti Ngata then yes DE is a very huge need. Is Jesse Williams that answer, I'd love to find out.

[jshipp23]

We play a base 3-4 defense. Pagano switches it up when we play in the nickle which usually has us in a 4 man front. Nevis, Moala, RJF, Mathews ,and Guy can all play the role of DT when we do that and we still have our NT's that can play DT in a 4 man front. Pagano will disguise our blitz scheme's with our LBer's and or CB's. All I'm trying to say is that with our 2 gap scheme, our DE's are around 300 lbs and have to be able to occupy their blockers. It's a different scheme than what the Texans use and our DE's play a different style than theirs.

Watt lines up all over the field, inside outside , and even nose tackle at times, and Hunt can do the same....Hunt even can cover some rbs and te's for that matter if we coach him up correctly...

[Balzer40]

Redding is aging and I think RJF was brought in to start with him and eventually replace him.

Matthews, Nevis and Guy are merely bodies for depth and Moala is coming off of an injury.

If we could land a biggun to be our version of Haloti Ngata then yes DE is a very huge need. Is Jesse Williams that answer, I'd love to find out.

 

 

That argument can be made, but I'm saying for this next season were fine at DE. If the team see's somebody they really like with our picks, then I'm not against it at all. Just saying DE isn't our #1 need as was suggested earlier.

[deano]

No risk, no reward....In this instance the reward could be great, imagine him tipping passes ala J.J. Watt and he even has the speed and agility to drop in coverage..

That's the upside of the risk....... The downside could be...... Imagine him NOT tipping passes.....or not getting sacks....

To me, you take that type of risk in a later round.

The first round pick you would want someone that produced at a very level in college.

IMHO