Teams Warned About Faking Injuries

[Coltssouth]

The NFL has sent a memo to all 32 teams warning of fines, suspensions and loss of draft picks if the league determines players faked injuries during a game.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7000274/nfl-threatens-fines-bans-faking-injuries

Good deal imo. Seems too many times I have seen a player come out of the game injured only to come back in on the next play with a "damaged" knee and run down the field.

[12>18]

This is a great idea considering how many teams are employing hurry up offenses. Elite QBs will always want more time to see the defense, and now these defenders can't be babies about the tempo. Oh, and I love how the NFL is making the game a game for wussies according to these defenders, but they can't even be in good enough shape to play football. Cmon. It's not like its soccer. Or rugby. Good call NFL.

[-JJ-]

good luck in telling what is fake or not.

my prediction..you won't see any fines.

[chad72]

My solution to it - the player goes out for 3 downs or a change in possession, whichever happens first. Otherwise, the team should take a timeout. That is the best middle ground to provide a deterrent to players faking it while letting players with injuries come back later.

So, if the player is injured legitimately before the 1st down or fakes it before the 1st down, he will have to wait till the 1st down, 2nd down and 3rd down are over to re-enter the game. 3 downs after the player is injured should deter a LOT of teams from faking it. If it is a valuable piece with a legit injury like a QB, they can take the timeout.

[ruksak]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/deon-grant-giants-fake-injury-rams_n_970957.html

Video of what happened Monday night. This kind of crap has no place in the game.

[-JJ-]

man that was horrible faking. More like a ballet:)

[-JJ-]

My solution to it - the player goes out for 3 downs or a change in possession, whichever happens first. Otherwise, the team should take a timeout. That is the best middle ground to provide a deterrent to players faking it while letting players with injuries come back later.

So, if the player is injured legitimately before the 1st down or fakes it before the 1st down, he will have to wait till the 1st down, 2nd down and 3rd down are over to re-enter the game. 3 downs after the player is injured should deter a LOT of teams from faking it. If it is a valuable piece with a legit injury like a QB, they can take the timeout.

no big loss. a 3rd stringer can just fake it.

this will go nowhere. Refs cannot and never will judge intent.

You can't even prove a cramp.

The best the warning will do is make you fake it better.

[NM_Colts]

wth This whole topic just ticks me off. This has been happening against us for a long time (the fake injuries) and nothing has been done, but let the Rams whine about it and the league finally takes notice. :rolleyes:

[P-Money]

wth This whole topic just ticks me off. This has been happening against us for a long time (the fake injuries) and nothing has been done, but let the Rams whine about it and the league finally takes notice. :rolleyes:

Get off the NFL is out to screw the Colts train. They've been aware of it for a long time. It just so happens that a defense finally miss communicated on who was suppose to fake an injury when the defensive captain yells out a certain code word and they got caught. It'll never be stopped. Offenses just need to deal with it as they have for the years past. I bet they were doing this in the leather helmet days. Its a cheat that's easy to exploit and almost impossible to catch.

[patsallday]

wth This whole topic just ticks me off. This has been happening against us for a long time (the fake injuries) and nothing has been done, but let the Rams whine about it and the league finally takes notice. :rolleyes:

it's shocking polian couldn't get this done sooner. he was all over the DB contact rules after that '04 playoff loss :ref:

[Andy]

loss of draft pick?? Oh crap, that's pretty rough.

[patsallday]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/deon-grant-giants-fake-injury-rams_n_970957.html

Video of what happened Monday night. This kind of crap has no place in the game.

cristiano ronaldo would be ashamed of that flopping lol

[patsallday]

loss of draft pick?? Oh crap, that's pretty rough.

it's a mighty large threat, but i don't know how they could enforce/quantify it.

[chad72]

no big loss. a 3rd stringer can just fake it.

this will go nowhere. Refs cannot and never will judge intent.

You can't even prove a cramp.

The best the warning will do is make you fake it better.

What are the odds that a 3rd stringer is getting into a starting defensive line up when an opponent goes no huddle thus not allowing defensive substitutions, let alone a 2nd stringer? It normally happens after a few plays on offense have happened, so greater the chances that the starting line up is out there. Nobody plans the faking, it is a spur of the moment thing if tempo is not in favor of the D. 9 out of 10 times, it is a starter that is faking it, not a second or third stringer.

[-JJ-]

Get off the NFL is out to screw the Colts train. They've been aware of it for a long time. It just so happens that a defense finally miss communicated on who was suppose to fake an injury when the defensive captain yells out a certain code word and they got caught. It'll never be stopped. Offenses just need to deal with it as they have for the years past. I bet they were doing this in the leather helmet days. Its a cheat that's easy to exploit and almost impossible to catch.

lol..that was funny the miscommunication on who goes down.

I agree,offenses will just have to deal with it as it can't be proved.

the warning might slow some of it down.

[P-Money]

Nobody plans the faking

Your only kidding yourself if you think for one minute that defenses don't practice this and put plans in place for different scenarios that may happen.

[patsallday]

Your only kidding yourself if you think for one minute that defenses don't practice this and put plans in place for different scenarios that may happen.

i agree with this.

[Thewholefnshow28]

They need to do something because what the Giants did made a mockery of the game itself.

The NFL should make it that if you are hurt and trainers or time is stopped because of your injury you must sit until the next stoppage of time i.e., end of a half, quarter, timeout, or turnover. This way you are not really punishing the really hurt and catching the fakers at the same time.

I still remember Willie McGinest pulling that crap and then running around celebrating.

[chad72]

Your only kidding yourself if you think for one minute that defenses don't practice this and put plans in place for different scenarios that may happen.

Maybe I should elaborate. No matter what hand signals are practiced in practice, they cannot know when exactly they will need to fake it, period. An offense can decide to go no huddle in the first quarter, second quarter etc. The defensive unit could have all starters, or second stringers in it. One may go no huddle but the D may be able to adjust fine to it. One may go no huddle and when the D is not able to adjust to the tempo, that is when they have to fake it.

That is what I meant when I said "you cannot plan the faking". What I actually meant is you cannot time the faking perfectly because you may have different personnel at different times and if you are a D and you choose a starter who you think can be easily rotated with a replacement for 3 downs, then you will still go ahead and fake it. But then, the O, if they have a smart QB, will go right after the position that was rotated with another no huddle set of 3 downs and could put your D in a pickle. Thus, 3 downs (or 1 possession if they use all 3 downs) would be a good deterrent, IMO.

If Belichick had to be without McGinnest for 3 downs, he would have taken a timeout or re-considered the faking (or McGinnest would have), especially if the faking was close to the goal line which was the case that game (and the case in the Rams-Giants game as well where the Rams got a FG). It is not like he would have wanted a second stringer in while Manning was driving the Colts down to potentially win it down (the score was 34-38 for the Colts) by the goal line just for having the option of faking it. The faking was the last option when everything else he had tried had failed, and the veteran McGinnest used/abused the rules. If it were for 3 downs, McGinnest would have put up, shut up and lined up.

[P-Money]

Maybe I should elaborate. No matter what hand signals are practiced in practice, they cannot know when exactly they will need to fake it, period. An offense can decide to go no huddle in the first quarter, second quarter etc. The defensive unit could have all starters, or second stringers in it. One may go no huddle but the D may be able to adjust fine to it. One may go no huddle and when the D is not able to adjust to the tempo, that is when they have to fake it.

That is what I meant when I said "you cannot plan the faking". What I actually meant is you cannot time the faking perfectly because you may have different personnel at different times and if you are a D and you choose a starter who you think can be easily rotated with a replacement for 3 downs, then you will still go ahead and fake it. But then, the O, if they have a smart QB, will go right after the position that was rotated with another no huddle set of 3 downs and could put your D in a pickle. Thus, 3 downs (or 1 possession if they use all 3 downs) would be a good deterrent, IMO.

If Belichick had to be without McGinnest for 3 downs, he would have taken a timeout or re-considered the faking (or McGinnest would have), especially if the faking was close to the goal line which was the case that game (and the case in the Rams-Giants game as well where the Rams got a FG). It is not like he would have wanted a second stringer in while Manning was driving the Colts down to potentially win it down (the score was 34-38 for the Colts) by the goal line just for having the option of faking it. The faking was the last option when everything else he had tried had failed, and the veteran McGinnest used/abused the rules. If it were for 3 downs, McGinnest would have put up, shut up and lined up.

I totally get what your trying to say but your missing the obvious. Everything you said are different scenarios that coaches get payed to figure out and have their team prepared for. I guarantee different players, considering the scenario, have there own code word or motion by the defensive captain that gives them the nod to hit the ground and moan like a lil school girl.

[chad72]

I totally get what your trying to say but your missing the obvious. Everything you said are different scenarios that coaches get payed to figure out and have their team prepared for. I guarantee different players, considering the scenario, have there own code word or motion by the defensive captain that gives them the nod to hit the ground and moan like a lil school girl.

The question is not whether they know how to hit the ground, not whether they have code words or not to hit the ground in different situations, the question is what will be deterrent enough to keep them from hitting the ground? 3 downs is a start for the player that hits the ground, if they are not willing to spend a timeout to keep him on the field, that is all I am saying .

With the injuries that the Giants had on their secondary, would they have dared to use a starter or multiple starters on their secondary to fake it (which is what they did) if they had to leave for 3 downs each when the Rams were at the goal line? No freaking way!!!

[Coltsagent]

There were no code words for the Giants...even Bradford went on the record to say he heard the Giants saying to each other someone go down with a cramp.

[P-Money]

The question is not whether they know how to hit the ground, not whether they have code words or not to hit the ground in different situations, the question is what will be deterrent enough to keep them from hitting the ground? 3 downs is a start for the player that hits the ground, if they are not willing to spend a timeout to keep him on the field, that is all I am saying .

With the injuries that the Giants had on their secondary, would they have dared to use a starter or multiple starters on their secondary to fake it (which is what they did) if they had to leave for 3 downs each when the Rams were at the goal line? No freaking way!!!

So is it fair to punish teams for when a player legitimately had a cramp? How would you feel if the Colts have the lead by 4 and Brady drove down to the 10 yard line with time running out and Freeney got a cramp with first and goal? Now we gotta rely on Hughes!! God help us! Not a good idea to make a player sit out 3 downs IMO.

[chad72]

So is it fair to punish teams for when a player legitimately had a cramp? How would you feel if the Colts have the lead by 4 and Brady drove down to the 10 yard line with time running out and Freeney got a cramp with first and goal? Now we gotta rely on Hughes!! God help us! Not a good idea to make a player sit out 3 downs IMO.

No, we use a timeout, that is why I gave the option of a timeout if it is a critical pass rusher like Freeney or even Manning!!! I do not see a fair way to make all parties happy here, hence the option of the timeout if you are not faking it.

Right now, the rule is Freeney would sit out 1 down at least, right? The current rule also states that if we take a timeout, we can tend to Freeney and he can play the next immediate down without missing any downs if the above were the case of legitimate cramps. So, I am extending the very same rule to 3 downs since 1 down is not deterrent enough.

[P-Money]

What if a team is out of timeouts? Then there's no option for their starter to return. Not fair. I believe the best thing to do is leave it alone and if a team fakes injury as blatant as the Giants did Monday night then you hand down the punishment.

[chad72]

What if a team is out of timeouts? Then there's no option for their starter to return. Not fair. I believe the best thing to do is leave it alone and if a team fakes injury as blatant as the Giants did Monday night then you hand down the punishment.

How on earth is anyone going to determine if the injuries are fake or not? Will they go based on injury reports where the coaches lie anyway ?

If a team is out of timeouts, 3 downs it is then. That is why teams build quality depth anyway. Without Freeney for 1 down, which would be the case of a normal stoppage as per the current rules, we would be playing a down at the goal line without Freeney anyway, with no timeouts. If we can manage that for 1 down, we should be able to manage for 3 downs if we are a team that has built quality depth.

It is like doctors being scared of treating a patient because they do not want to get sued. A few big lawsuits change the way the medical profession approaches medical care, not everyone is going to be happy. Same case with several NFL rules, fair or not, a deterrent for a few will not make everyone happy.

[P-Money]

They can't determine if they're fake or not. They haven't been able too since the birth of football. We wouldn't even be having this discussion right now if the Giants hadn't got caught with their pants down. The NFL didn't want to pursue this problem but since the Giants made fools of themselves now they're forced to make some kinda statement. There just isn't a fair way to do it unless its blatant. I bet the NFL leaves the ruling where it stands now unless another team embarrasses them again on national TV.

[-JJ-]

They can't determine if they're fake or not. They haven't been able too since the birth of football. We wouldn't even be having this discussion right now if the Giants hadn't got caught with their pants down. The NFL didn't want to pursue this problem but since the Giants made fools of themselves now they're forced to make some kinda statement. There just isn't a fair way to do it unless its blatant. I bet the NFL leaves the ruling where it stands now unless another team embarrasses them again on national TV.

correct. It was so obvious it got the attention of the NFL.

I see no way of stopping..other than the warning was sent out and maybe teams won't be too obvious for fear of getting called in by the NFL.

But good luck on the NFL saying it was fake and taking a draft pick away.

On the flip side one could argue the hurry up isn't fair.<shrug>

Infact SD did it to NE. I just said ah crap..oh well Tom..you'll have to get a TD the normal way. Afterall he hurried them up down the field already.And we did score anyway. So not the biggest deal all said and done.

[FairleySuhper]

If NFL players want to learn how to fake it better, they should talk to some of my ex-girlfriends.

[P-Money]

If NFL players want to learn how to fake it better, they should talk to some of my ex-girlfriends.

lol Post of the week right here!!

[NM_Colts]

it's shocking polian couldn't get this done sooner. he was all over the DB contact rules after that '04 playoff loss :ref:

Nice attempt at trolling :rolleyes: but get your facts straight.

[Steagles]

Good luck proving anything, Goodell. Just implement something where if someone gets hurt and comes out, he has to stay out for the drive.

If NFL players want to learn how to fake it better, they should talk to some of my ex-girlfriends.

Yes, this is the post of the week. Maybe of the month!

[P-Money]

Good luck proving anything, Goodell. Just implement something where if someone gets hurt and comes out, he has to stay out for the drive.

So let's say Manning is on a game winning drive and gets hurt, nothing major, now he has to sit out the entire drive? What rule you implement on the injury question at hand has to be enforced on both sides of the ball. The NFL made the right call by handing out fines and not making any rule changes. Goodell finally made a good decision and didn't go overboard like he usually does.

[P-Money]

Good luck proving anything, Goodell. Just implement something where if someone gets hurt and comes out, he has to stay out for the drive.

So let's say Manning is on a game winning drive and gets hurt, nothing major, now he has to sit out the entire drive? What rule you implement on the injury question at hand has to be enforced on both sides of the ball. The NFL made the right call by handing out fines and not making any rule changes. Goodell finally made a good decision and didn't go overboard like he usually does.

[Steagles]

So let's say Manning is on a game winning drive and gets hurt, nothing major, now he has to sit out the entire drive? What rule you implement on the injury question at hand has to be enforced on both sides of the ball. The NFL made the right call by handing out fines and not making any rule changes. Goodell finally made a good decision and didn't go overboard like he usually does.

Well I'm not saying its perfect but Goodell will have a very, very, very tough time proving anything was faked.

[P-Money]

That's why he made the wise decision to "NOT" make any rule changes. He isn't trying to catch teams doing this. Not sure why everyone thinks he's out to put a stop to it. The Giants got caught witch forced Goodell to email out a memo to all 32 teams. He's not stupid. He knows you can't stop it. That's why there was no rule changes. I really don't understand why people don't get this.

[-JJ-]

Chargers found a way to slow down New England on Sunday — albeit very briefly — when San Diego linebacker Shaun Phillips went down early in the game. Phillip returned to the contest shortly afterward, but his actions (as well as the actions of some of the players in the Giants-Rams game Monday night) have sparked a discussion across the league about defensive players possibly faking injuries in hopes of taking an offense out of a rhythm.

Belichick's take on it.

I think we all see, the way the game is now,” said Patriots coach Bill Belichick, speaking on a conference call with reporters Tuesday afternoon. “There are different breaks in the game at all points in time. You can have the momentum, and positive things going in your favor, and we stop and review a play, review a score, or a play gets challenged, or a player gets injured, a beach ball rolls on to the field. It could be a dog runs out there. It could be anything. Streakers, you could have that.

“Things happen,” Belichick added. “That’s part of being focused and playing through the situation, whatever it is that comes up, you have to be able to deal with it, both sides of the ball, for and against it, on the road and home. It’s just part of the game. I think if you want to address that whole issue, that’s something that needs to go to the people who make the rules.”

[P-Money]

Chargers found a way to slow down New England on Sunday — albeit very briefly — when San Diego linebacker Shaun Phillips went down early in the game. Phillip returned to the contest shortly afterward, but his actions (as well as the actions of some of the players in the Giants-Rams game Monday night) have sparked a discussion across the league about defensive players possibly faking injuries in hopes of taking an offense out of a rhythm.

Belichick's take on it.

I think we all see, the way the game is now,” said Patriots coach Bill Belichick, speaking on a conference call with reporters Tuesday afternoon. “There are different breaks in the game at all points in time. You can have the momentum, and positive things going in your favor, and we stop and review a play, review a score, or a play gets challenged, or a player gets injured, a beach ball rolls on to the field. It could be a dog runs out there. It could be anything. Streakers, you could have that.

“Things happen,” Belichick added. “That’s part of being focused and playing through the situation, whatever it is that comes up, you have to be able to deal with it, both sides of the ball, for and against it, on the road and home. It’s just part of the game. I think if you want to address that whole issue, that’s something that needs to go to the people who make the rules.”

Smart man right there!! That's why he's a HOF coach. Nice post JJ. Thank you

[Nadine]

I would like to see an especially DRAMATIC Ref sign for this call.

FAKING IT!

The more humiliating the better. It is appalling the number of players who own up to this being part of the game.

Either than or add a combine drill on ACTING

[hawkeyes]

"warned" - its a hollow threat. Seriously theres not a whole lot they can do about this.... teams who do employ the tactic will just stress that players do a better job "faking" and it won't be as easily identified.