Game 3 Breakdown

[jwilli69]

Lacey is a good player, there was one pass where they tried to go deep on him and he was all over the guy. Lacey is only gonna get better... wish he would put on a few more pounds though.

You are obviously seeing the same thing as the colts coaching staff but differently than most everyone else. You could almost see the QB just plan on going at #27 at will for an easy completion. I liked what Lacey did in his first season but holy crap has he fell backwards since. He is nothing more than an avg cb in this scheme and in this league. It does not help that the scheme calls for 10 yard cushions each time though.

[Jason_]

I thought angerer had good coverage on the finley td,perfect throw by rodgers.

I agree. It was a perfect route by Finley, a perfect throw by Rogers and a great catch by Finley. You'd be hard pressed to find a LB who could have stopped that play. That said, Angerer was out of position several times but that was due to the Tampa 2 scheme and not his fault. The Tampa 2 has the MLB dropping much further back in coverage than a standard Cover 2. He winds up back in the secondary by the time the play starts to develop and if it's a run then he has to stop running backwards and start going forwards and he winds up out of position a lot of the time. I personally am not a fan of the Tampa 2 and that's why. On 2nd and really long or 3rd and long it can work, but in any other situation it becomes a liability and makes it easier for the opposing team to run and throw those short to intermediate passes over the middle.

[Smitto]

You are obviously seeing the same thing as the colts coaching staff but differently than most everyone else. You could almost see the QB just plan on going at #27 at will for an easy completion. I liked what Lacey did in his first season but holy crap has he fell backwards since. He is nothing more than an avg cb in this scheme and in this league. It does not help that the scheme calls for 10 yard cushions each time though.

I just got done watching the game this morning, and the person he really reminds me of is jason david and i did not like jason david.. lacey has skills no one can deny that after seeing him in his rookie season.. He needs to spend some more time watching tape and probably gain a few more pounds cause he's not a great tackler.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Imo lacey has clearly regressed from his rookie year.

[presto123]

Why why why did we not sign a receiver? We have two glass receivers and Garcon is as inconsistent as they come. Would it really kill us to get some insurance being that our offense is built around the passing game? Our receivers are already getting hurt you really think they can last a whole season? Highly doubtful. I think I'm more worried about the receiving corps than DB's.

[GoColts8818]

Why why why did we not sign a receiver? We have two glass receivers and Garcon is as inconsistent as they come. Would it really kill us to get some insurance being that our offense is built around the passing game? Our receivers are already getting hurt you really think they can last a whole season? Highly doubtful. I think I'm more worried about the receiving corps than DB's.

because we probably already six we are going to keep. We just don't have the roster spots.

[Smitto]

Why why why did we not sign a receiver? We have two glass receivers and Garcon is as inconsistent as they come. Would it really kill us to get some insurance being that our offense is built around the passing game? Our receivers are already getting hurt you really think they can last a whole season? Highly doubtful. I think I'm more worried about the receiving corps than DB's.

With the way the secondary look they would have been better off trying to get a CB or something... I still think the secondary will perform well... i actually thought thomas was infront of tryon on the depth chart.. they should try him out starting across powers.

[doogansquest]

Interesting that you mentioned noticing depth. For the first time in a long time, I felt the same thing. Our db's scare me though. Lacey seemed to have a very good rookie year and is fastly becoming the guy teams pick on. He gives far too much cushion and missed a big tackle that resulted in a huge gain for the Packers. All in all, a very inspiring performance. Sadly, even with Manning, I don't see this unit as a "super bowl" caliber team. I found it interesting that Simms mentioned a "slower" indy team tonight. I got the same feeling. We don't seem as fast as we have been in the past.

Im gonna agree with you here. Sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same game I was. Our Defense didn't look very good at all in the 1st qtr. I will say they done good in run defense, but in reality the Packers barely ran the ball at all. Heck, even the announcers mentioned that our d-line was giving Rodgers all day to throw the ball and how that was unusual for a Colts defense.

Colts fans have a tendancy to overexagerate the play of our defense when they are playing just ok. I guess thats because we are use to terrible defense. The defense was much better against the Packers 2nd unit, but im not sure thats anything to get real excited about. The pass defense was an absolute joke and an embarrassment in the 1st half.

Both of these comments about our defense can be explained rather simply, however:

1. We have a lot of new guys on the front seven who are learning the system for the first time. Most of what we are doing out there involves testing the water.

2. The Packers offensive unit, however, has now played together for 3 seasons and was basically trying to go through real game sequences.

For the first 18-20 minutes, this made things awkward. They did adjust to the 1st team of the Packers, however, and this allowed Painter to catch up. Do you really believe, with Peyton Manning, we get down by 10? My guess is, we are up 14-10 at the end of the 1st, followed by a defensive adjustment that permits us to blow it wide open.

The defense will look a little shaky to start the season, but I promise you, this will be a frightening unit by mid-season (barring injuries, of course).

[chad72]

The defense will look a little shaky to start the season, but I promise you, this will be a frightening unit by mid-season (barring injuries, of course).

Things have changed since the Dungy days, haven't they? The D, because the scheme was much simpler, started off more sharp, if not as sharp as the offense when Dungy was around (easier for rookies to grasp too). Coyer's system is not that vanilla (though they play vanilla in pre-season a lot) like that of Ron Meeks. He is still figuring out the players he has, IMO, and the players are figuring out the system as well, maybe except the veterans who have a good grasp of it.

That is why the D will start a little more shaky but the question is, will the O do enough to make up for it?

[Mouthfire]

Why why why did we not sign a receiver? We have two glass receivers and Garcon is as inconsistent as they come. Would it really kill us to get some insurance being that our offense is built around the passing game? Our receivers are already getting hurt you really think they can last a whole season? Highly doubtful. I think I'm more worried about the receiving corps than DB's.

Hmmmm.... I hear Randy Mochocinco-Manzadeh-Owens is still available. I love that guy!!!!!

[doogansquest]

Things have changed since the Dungy days, haven't they? The D, because the scheme was much simpler, started off more sharp, if not as sharp as the offense when Dungy was around (easier for rookies to grasp too). Coyer's system is not that vanilla (though they play vanilla in pre-season a lot) like that of Ron Meeks. He is still figuring out the players he has, IMO, and the players are figuring out the system as well, maybe except the veterans who have a good grasp of it.

That is why the D will start a little more shaky but the question is, will the O do enough to make up for it?

Your question can only be answered, I'm afraid, by the status of Mr. Manning's health. :manning:

[Coffeedrinker]

Our first unit gaved up 150 yards and 10 points in the first qtr. I don't see how that's looking good. While they looked improved (consider what we are comparing to). but that first quarter and halfway through the second qtr was domination by the Packers over our defense. We were fortunate to only be down by 3 at the half.

Actually the Colts were winning 14-10 at the half. And the Packers were fortunate to be that close because of some dropped passes by Garcon and Wayne on the first couple of drives.

People say the Colts are nothing without Manning, but the Colts starters (without Manning) beat the defending SB champ starters. The forced Rogers to do a lot of passes to his outlet receivers, allowed next to no rushing yards and sacked him 4 times in the first half... there is a lot that looked good. The Colts D and Coyer needs to figure out how to NOT leave a gaping hole about 20 yards wide in the center of the field and 12-20 yards deep because that is a huge problem.

[Coffeedrinker]

Things have changed since the Dungy days, haven't they? The D, because the scheme was much simpler, started off more sharp, if not as sharp as the offense when Dungy was around (easier for rookies to grasp too). Coyer's system is not that vanilla (though they play vanilla in pre-season a lot) like that of Ron Meeks. He is still figuring out the players he has, IMO, and the players are figuring out the system as well, maybe except the veterans who have a good grasp of it.

That is why the D will start a little more shaky but the question is, will the O do enough to make up for it?

Speaking of the D where was Brackett? The starters were Conner at WILL, Angerer at MIKE and Wheeler at SAM. (And they actually did pretty well, especially against the run)

[Rich Cannon]

Im gonna agree with you here. Sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same game I was. Our Defense didn't look very good at all in the 1st qtr. I will say they done good in run defense, but in reality the Packers barely ran the ball at all. Heck, even the announcers mentioned that our d-line was giving Rodgers all day to throw the ball and how that was unusual for a Colts defense.

Colts fans have a tendancy to overexagerate the play of our defense when they are playing just ok. I guess thats because we are use to terrible defense. The defense was much better against the Packers 2nd unit, but im not sure thats anything to get real excited about. The pass defense was an absolute joke and an embarrassment in the 1st half.

The reason why the pass d was so bad is because Caldwell said before the game he was simplifying it, I’m hoping that we will not play passive zones as often in the regualr season. Thats the only reason why Arron Rogers looked so good imo.

[Coffeedrinker]

The reason why the pass d was so bad is because Caldwell said before the game he was simplifying it, I’m hoping that we will not play passive zones as often in the regualr season. Thats the only reason why Arron Rogers looked so good imo.

What was the simplification, don't cover anyone beyond 5 yards just form a bubble around them?

[GoColts8818]

What was the simplification, don't cover anyone beyond 5 yards just form a bubble around them?

Well that is the base cover-2. I would love to say I am sure that will change in the regular season but history has shown us it doesn't.

I noticed the Pack tried that play in the second half and Thomas played up on it and the dude turned right into Thomas and he laid the guy out. All it will take is doing that once or twice times and WRs will tell their QBs to leave that play on the sidelines.

[Rich Cannon]

What was the simplification, don't cover anyone beyond 5 yards just form a bubble around them?

lol im just going by what announcers and Caldwell said. I have never been a fan on staying 5-10 yds deep in coverage

[BlueRedZone]

One thing I haven't noticed mentioned, but I am concerned about. Garçon 7 targets, 1 catch. That just isn't gonna cut it.

Well there was a PI that was not called. Another at his foot, and if I remember one that was really out of reach. I only saw one where he should've caught it and didn't.

[BlueRedZone]

Im gonna agree with you here. Sometimes I wonder if people are watching the same game I was. Our Defense didn't look very good at all in the 1st qtr. I will say they done good in run defense, but in reality the Packers barely ran the ball at all. Heck, even the announcers mentioned that our d-line was giving Rodgers all day to throw the ball and how that was unusual for a Colts defense.

Colts fans have a tendancy to overexagerate the play of our defense when they are playing just ok. I guess thats because we are use to terrible defense. The defense was much better against the Packers 2nd unit, but im not sure thats anything to get real excited about. The pass defense was an absolute joke and an embarrassment in the 1st half.

I would say that our defense got vastly better when we actually mounted a drive of our own and gave our D a break. 3 and outs and the D back on the field isn't gonna get it done

The best D's in the league wouldn't hold up well when all they get is 3 and outs by the offense.

[Jason_]

Actually the Colts were winning 14-10 at the half. And the Packers were fortunate to be that close because of some dropped passes by Garcon and Wayne on the first couple of drives.

People say the Colts are nothing without Manning, but the Colts starters (without Manning) beat the defending SB champ starters. The forced Rogers to do a lot of passes to his outlet receivers, allowed next to no rushing yards and sacked him 4 times in the first half... there is a lot that looked good. The Colts D and Coyer needs to figure out how to NOT leave a gaping hole about 20 yards wide in the center of the field and 12-20 yards deep because that is a huge problem.

That's an easy one...stop running the Tampa 2 on anything other than an obvious long yardage passing down. In the Tampa 2, the MIKE drops back into deep zone with the safeties essentially making it a cover 3 instead of a cover 2 but with 2 safeties and 1 LB deep instead of 1 safety and 2 cb's deep. I couldn't count how many times I saw Angerer running backwards 5-10 yards the second the ball is snapped which left him out of position both for runs and for short/intermediate passes over the middle. By the time he was able to determine the play was going to be shorter, he was already out of position and couldn't get back in position in time to have an affect on the play. This is not his fault, imo, but rather the fault of the Tampa 2. This defense should never, imo, be used on 1st down, never on second down unless it's 2nd and 15 or more, and only on 3rd downs when it's 3rd and 10 or more. Obviously this is a simplistic guideline, but the point I'm trying to make is it shouldn't be used as anything more than a prevent-type defense. Hopefully that's how it will be used in the regular season.

I know he didn't play a whole lot but I also liked what I saw from Nate Triplett when he came in as the backup MLB. He was constantly around the ball on running plays and appeared to be a strong, physical tackler.

[JoKeR]

I'd rather have Tryon starting with Thomas playing nickel. Lacey makes me nervous. How the Colts view Lacey to be better than Tryon is beyond me

[Coffeedrinker]

That's an easy one...stop running the Tampa 2 on anything other than an obvious long yardage passing down. In the Tampa 2, the MIKE drops back into deep zone with the safeties essentially making it a cover 3 instead of a cover 2 but with 2 safeties and 1 LB deep instead of 1 safety and 2 cb's deep. I couldn't count how many times I saw Angerer running backwards 5-10 yards the second the ball is snapped which left him out of position both for runs and for short/intermediate passes over the middle. By the time he was able to determine the play was going to be shorter, he was already out of position and couldn't get back in position in time to have an affect on the play. This is not his fault, imo, but rather the fault of the Tampa 2. This defense should never, imo, be used on 1st down, never on second down unless it's 2nd and 15 or more, and only on 3rd downs when it's 3rd and 10 or more. Obviously this is a simplistic guideline, but the point I'm trying to make is it shouldn't be used as anything more than a prevent-type defense. Hopefully that's how it will be used in the regular season.

I know he didn't play a whole lot but I also liked what I saw from Nate Triplett when he came in as the backup MLB. He was constantly around the ball on running plays and appeared to be a strong, physical tackler.

One the Colts don't run the Tampa 2 as much as most people think. Two, you can't really say Angerer is out of position. Out of position means he is not where he is supposed to be. I'm a fan of the Tampa 2 overall, but not the way Coyer runs it when he calls it.