Jared Verse or Terrion Arnold

[twfish]

Just like the others, take a vote.

 

the more I think about things the less likely we are to take a CB early but that’s another topic…

[stitches]

One of the easier ones IMO. I'd take Arnold. I think he's the best CB in the draft and I think if Ballard drafts him this would mean a bit of a change of direction or at least an attempt to diversify the coverage we are playing since he's one the best preess-man corner prospect in the draft. 

[Solid84]

I voted Verse. I think good DEs are harder to find and we need one. We can find quality CBs on day 2 in my opinion.

[twfish]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

One of the easier ones IMO. I'd take Arnold. I think he's the best CB in the draft and I think if Ballard drafts him this would mean a bit of a change of direction or at least an attempt to diversify the coverage we are playing since he's one the best preess-man corner prospect in the draft. 

I’m personally higher in Mitchell than I am on Arnold. I feel like Mitchell is the better all around CB and can excel in Zone and man and has all the measurables, there’s nothing wrong at all with Arnold I just really like Mitchell.

[MikeCurtis]

23 hours ago, stitches said:

One of the easier ones IMO. I'd take Arnold. I think he's the best CB in the draft and I think if Ballard drafts him this would mean a bit of a change of direction or at least an attempt to diversify the coverage we are playing since he's one the best preess-man corner prospect in the draft. 

We need a CB 

 

BUT

 

If we plan on playing zone all the time his awesome talent might be wasted

[MB-ColtsFan]

21 hours ago, twfish said:

I’m personally higher in Mitchell than I am on Arnold. I feel like Mitchell is the better all around CB and can excel in Zone and man and has all the measurables, there’s nothing wrong at all with Arnold I just really like Mitchell.

I agree (with what little I know about scouting).  I see better closing speed and anticipation from Mitchell.  Yeah, the competition is probably not as great, but the traits are still there, in my opinion.

 

Back to the original question: I would go with Verse.  More of an impact position at this point of our team needs, in my opinion.  We’ve been looking for a quality DE since DFree & Mathis.

[stitches]

44 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

We need a CB 

 

BUT

 

If we plan on playing zone all the time his awesome talent might be wasted

Interestingly enough, his PFF grade in zone is even higher than his grade in man. I think he can play both... but he has press-man experience, which would be helpful if we decide to man up more often or 3d downs. 

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Interestingly enough, his PFF grade in zone is even higher than his grade in man. I think he can play both... but he has press-man experience, which would be helpful if we decide to man up more often or 3d downs. 

But he gives up considerably more yards in zone than man. I forgot who posted this (maybe you in fact?):

 

Just now, Solid84 said:

But he gives up considerably more yards in zone than man. I forgot who posted this (maybe you in fact?):

 

Yeah that's unreadable lol. I'll see if I can find the tweet.

[Solid84]

It was @wig in the "Colts Best 2024 Draft Prospect Fits" thread:

 

In numbers:

 

[Superman]

I don't really like Verse.

[twfish]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't really like Verse.

Elaborate? I haven’t watched the edge rushers as much this year, focused more on DB’s and WR so I’d love to hear your take.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, twfish said:

Elaborate? I haven’t watched the edge rushers as much this year, focused more on DB’s and WR so I’d love to hear your take.

 

This is what I posted a couple months ago:

 

I just watched some of Jared Verse. He's a pretty good athlete, good size, adequate length, seems powerful, and he definitely passes the eyeball test as a football player. Good motor during his rushes, kind of jogs around once the ball goes away from him. He has a good first step, not super explosive, so don't be fooled by the plays where he times up the snap perfectly. He can come out of his stance too high, and then sometimes he'll be too far out over his feet, but when his leverage is right, he can go speed to power and embarrass the lineman. Good chop move, good swim, he'll spin but it's not super effective. Speaking of, he can be incredibly undisciplined with some of his moves, taking himself out of position, giving up rushing lanes, abandoning edge containment, and it happens a little too often. And it's really the lack of of discipline that bugs me throughout the game. He's also not a great tackler, kind of dives around a lot and will miss the ball carrier. He's not great in space, and he doesn't bend the edge very well... look for a mediocre three cone and shuttle. 

 

There are also times when he looks like the most unstoppable player on the field. Watch the Florida game, or the Louisville game... sheesh. Just a wrecking ball. There are plays where he sets up a blocker and hits them with a counter, and even plays where he has to go to his second or third move to beat the blocker, and has some success. If he can refine his technique, and stabilize his attacks, he can be a pretty good DE and pass rusher. If he's disciplined, he can hold up against the run. I don't see him having a high ceiling in the NFL and being a consistent double digit sack guy, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a long career. Think Brandon Graham.

 

He probably wouldn't be my favorite pick at #15.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I wouldn't take either at #15 but basically the question is, if you had a choice between the 2 who would you take at #15. I voted Arnold. Pass Rush is more important but Secondary is the weakest part of our team.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 4/7/2024 at 2:44 PM, twfish said:

I’m personally higher in Mitchell than I am on Arnold. I feel like Mitchell is the better all around CB and can excel in Zone aall-around has all the measurables, therMan nothing wrong at all with Arnold I just really like Mitchell.

Arnold ran a 4.51. 40 times are overrated to an extent,, however one thing is consistent when it comes to corner play. If u r to be a successful man corner, you'd better run in  the 4.4 to 4.3's. I can't think of a corner who played man and had a 4.5. U just don't see. 

[Dr. T]

I picked Arnold, but would be disappointed with either one at #15.

[indyagent17]

I don't see either one falling to 15 but if Bowers is there he is my number one choice (low percentage)

 

WR or CB is the pick if we stay at 15 unless Verse falls. this is what makes the draft so much fun and interesting to see what happens before our pick and do the math 

 

[Lifetime Colt]

Arnold.

IMO biggest needs in the draft are WR/CB, S, LB, IOL depth. With at minimum 4 DE, and ability to scheme up to 6, I would look deeper in the draft, or make it a 2025 priority.

 

I have done many mocks going edge in the first round. My observation is that after pick 15, the priority needs of CB/WR , as they are for many teams, get pushed down in picks 46 and 81 that the quality level of those 2 positions are affected negatively quality wise. With pick 46 a good to decent WR/CB is possible, but down at pick 81, those positions have been thinned out pretty well. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:37 PM, Lifetime Colt said:

Arnold.

IMO biggest needs in the draft are WR/CB, S, LB, IOL depth. With at minimum 4 DE, and ability to scheme up to 6, I would look deeper in the draft, or make it a 2025 priority.

 

I have done many mocks going edge in the first round. My observation is that after pick 15, the priority needs of CB/WR , as they are for many teams, get pushed down in picks 46 and 81 that the quality level of those 2 positions are affected negatively quality wise. With pick 46 a good to decent WR/CB is possible, but down at pick 81, those positions have been thinned out pretty well. 

I just don't get it when people say wr is a bigger need than cb. We have Pittman who we just resigned and Downs shows promise. So we have our wr#2 and our slot in Downs. Now we can just hope Pierce will show some signs with  Richardson throwing the ball. Now tell me this. Based on last year what corner showed u that they are a starting corner in the NFL and gice reasons? Due to injury, draft spot and overall talent coming out of college. Not one of them has shown me they can be either our corner back 1 or 2. The  whole secondary is an absolute crap shoot going into next year.

[Dark Superman]

Cooper DeJean.

[Lifetime Colt]

22 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I just don't get it when people say wr is a bigger need than cb. We have Pittman who we just resigned and Downs shows promise. So we have our wr#2 and our slot in Downs. Now we can just hope Pierce will show some signs with  Richardson throwing the ball. Now tell me this. Based on last year what corner showed u that they are a starting corner in the NFL and gice reasons? Due to injury, draft spot and overall talent coming out of college. Not one of them has shown me they can be either our corner back 1 or 2. The  whole secondary is an absolute crap shoot going into next year.

We just have 2 different philosophy's on what we believe, its OK. I am in favor, or hope to see 2 Wr and/or 2 CB's drafted this year. Last year we had Rogers and Flowers kind of slotted as the opening day starters, that went downhill quickly. Same thing go's for this years wide receivers, take any 2 of the 3 current starters, or even 1 out of the mix and its a real problem. Juju and Jones are not rookies anymore, they are capable starters, not Pro Bowl starters, but are starters and should be better than last year, and Flowers is coming back.  I responded to the post saying Arnold over Verse, that is the topic, and I think the needs of CB/WR far outweigh a DE at this time. My real issue is adding a coverage LB, the amount of open 5-15 yard dump offs all season long with the middle wide open kept the defense on the field a lot, and was no help for the young CB's last season.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Lifetime Colt said:

We just have 2 different philosophy's on what we believe, its OK. I am in favor, or hope to see 2 Wr and/or 2 CB's drafted this year. Last year we had Rogers and Flowers kind of slotted as the opening day starters, that went downhill quickly. Same thing go's for this years wide receivers, take any 2 of the 3 current starters, or even 1 out of the mix and its a real problem. Juju and Jones are not rookies anymore, they are capable starters, not Pro Bowl starters, but are starters and should be better than last year, and Flowers is coming back.  I responded to the post saying Arnold over Verse, that is the topic, and I think the needs of CB/WR far outweigh a DE at this time. My real issue is adding a coverage LB, the amount of open 5-15 yard dump offs all season long with the middle wide open kept the defense on the field a lot, and was no help for the young CB's last season.

I think DE is a huge need. Don't look at the sack stats. As the game wore on into thr 4th  quarter, the rush disappeared. That's why we saw a lof of blown games. Couldn't rush the passer on the 4th and the qbs picked apart the zone coverages.

[Moosejawcolt]

People 

1 hour ago, Lifetime Colt said:

We just have 2 different philosophy's on what we believe, its OK. I am in favor, or hope to see 2 Wr and/or 2 CB's drafted this year. Last year we had Rogers and Flowers kind of slotted as the opening day starters, that went downhill quickly. Same thing go's for this years wide receivers, take any 2 of the 3 current starters, or even 1 out of the mix and its a real problem. Juju and Jones are not rookies anymore, they are capable starters, not Pro Bowl starters, but are starters and should be better than last year, and Flowers is coming back.  I responded to the post saying Arnold over Verse, that is the topic, and I think the needs of CB/WR far outweigh a DE at this time. My real issue is adding a coverage LB, the amount of open 5-15 yard dump offs all season long with the middle wide open kept the defense on the field a lot, and was no help for the young CB's last season.

I keep going back to Ballard's history and I think the 1st pick is Dline. He traded up for Buckner and a 1st rounder in Paye who's 5th year most likely won't  be picked up. I just see a gaping hole at RDE and Ballard preaches the trenches. For this D to work, it's needs a great pass rush. U rush with 4 and will be rotsting a lot. U make the secondary better by improving the rush.

[Lifetime Colt]

5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think DE is a huge need. Don't look at the sack stats. As the game wore on into thr 4th  quarter, the rush disappeared. That's why we saw a lof of blown games. Couldn't rush the passer on the 4th and the qbs picked apart the zone coverages.

Same thing I said about the LB's, defense was on the field too much because every 3rd and 4-6 yards was a given with play action, no coverage in the middle of the field. Colts defense was gassed in over half of their games in the 4th quarter, even with an 8 man rotation DL.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Lifetime Colt said:

Same thing I said about the LB's, defense was on the field too much because every 3rd and 4-6 yards was a given with play action, no coverage in the middle of the field. Colts defense was gassed in over half of their games in the 4th quarter, even with an 8 man rotation DL.

LB is like wr and for me and I look at affding to that after the 3rd.