Bryce Young, QB, Alabama

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

194 pounds in the NFL is Doug Flutie small. I do think adding weight will help him survive hits more then impact his athleticism. Kyler can get away with it because he's just uber fast at getting away from defenders. Bryce has good speed, but not get away from defenders speed. JMO

 

Kyler Murray was measured at 5'10", 207 pounds, for a BMI of 29.7. If Bryce Young is 6'0", 194 pounds, his BMI is 26.3. I don't think they are very comparable, Murray has a more substantial build. He also has not been a great example of a smaller player staying healthy, he's been hurt each of the last two seasons.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Kyler Murray was measured at 5'10", 207 pounds, for a BMI of 29.7. If Bryce Young is 6'0", 194 pounds, his BMI is 26.3. I don't think they are very comparable, Murray has a more substantial build. He also has not been a great example of a smaller player staying healthy, he's been hurt each of the last two seasons.

According to Daniel Jeremiah Bryce Young measured at 192 last week. He's at some facility preparing for the combine and they are saying he will try to get close to 200 by the combine. No idea how you gain good 8 pounds in 1 week. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

According to Daniel Jeremiah Bryce Young measured at 192 last week. He's at some facility preparing for the combine and they are saying he will try to get close to 200 by the combine. No idea how you gain good 8 pounds in 1 week. 

 

Lots and lots of water

[crazycolt1]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Lots and lots of water

Or lots and lots of beer and pizza?

[CR91]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Kyler Murray was measured at 5'10", 207 pounds, for a BMI of 29.7. If Bryce Young is 6'0", 194 pounds, his BMI is 26.3. I don't think they are very comparable, Murray has a more substantial build. He also has not been a great example of a smaller player staying healthy, he's been hurt each of the last two seasons.

 

Wasn't comparing the two. My point Kyler is more athletic and has better speed and acceleration to avoid defenders so he can play at that weight. Not the same with Bryce.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

According to Daniel Jeremiah Bryce Young measured at 192 last week. He's at some facility preparing for the combine and they are saying he will try to get close to 200 by the combine. No idea how you gain good 8 pounds in 1 week. 

 

If NFL decision makers are really going to be swayed by a staged weigh in, yikes.

 

At this point, I think you either decide that you're okay with his size, or you're not. The 'can he gain and maintain more size' discussion is probably a red herring. 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Wasn't comparing the two. My point Kyler is more athletic and has better speed and acceleration to avoid defenders so he can play at that weight. Not the same with Bryce.

 

If Irsay had an issue with the way Luck played inviting contact and tweeted, it won't take long for him to tweet about Bryce having to protect himself. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Wasn't comparing the two. My point Kyler is more athletic and has better speed and acceleration to avoid defenders so he can play at that weight. Not the same with Bryce.

 

Ah, got it. I guess my point though is that even with more athleticism, Kyler hasn't been too successful avoiding defenders.

 

So more to the point, how do you feel about Young's build + athleticism? If you're deciding, are you okay with betting major draft resources on his ability to hold up physically in the NFL? 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

If NFL decision makers are really going to be swayed by a staged weigh in, yikes.

 

At this point, I think you either decide that you're okay with his size, or you're not. The 'can he gain and maintain more size' discussion is probably a red herring. 

Yeah I agree. If teams can deal with his height his weight is not going to be a factor. 

 

[CR91]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

If Irsay had an issue with the way Luck played inviting contact and tweeted, it won't take long for him to tweet about Bryce having to protect himself. 

 

Here's the thing with Bryce though, he's really good in the pocket. If I had to compare him, id says he's a more athletic Drew Brees.

[Superman]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah I agree. If teams can deal with his height his weight is not going to be a factor. 

 

I see it the opposite way. I'm much less concerned with his height than I am with his build.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Ah, got it. I guess my point though is that even with more athleticism, Kyler hasn't been too successful avoiding defenders.

 

So more to the point, how do you feel about Young's build + athleticism? If you're deciding, are you okay with betting major draft resources on his ability to hold up physically in the NFL? 

 

Honestly the build does scare me. The best ability is availability. I love his game I think he has everything it takes to be a successful QB in the NFL, but one bad hit and I'd be scared for his future.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Here's the thing with Bryce though, he's really good in the pocket. If I had to compare him, id says he's a more athletic Drew Brees.

 

Brees did have taller WR/TEs like Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston and his shoulder level throws hitting them in stride following their helmets and slightly longer depth of drop for his throws with his accuracy helped all around. Blown coverages past 15 yards are visible to QBs of all heights, at least those that can read Ds. Maybe that is also why we draft taller WRs.  

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If NFL decision makers are really going to be swayed by a staged weigh in, yikes.

 

At this point, I think you either decide that you're okay with his size, or you're not. The 'can he gain and maintain more size' discussion is probably a red herring. 

Absolutely agreed. And this will be THE conversation the whole of next week. I think this is red herring indeed. It doesn't matter how he measures on one specific day in March. What really matters is what his playing size and weight will be September through February, when the last thing he will be thinking about is whether he's 200 or 185lbs. And I don't get the appeal of 200 lbs either. OK, he won't be the 0th percentile... he will be the 3d percentile of drafted QBs... he's still one of the smallest QBs to ever get drafted. The question shouldn't be can he go past some imaginary red line, the quesiton should be - do you think him being this small and not having exceptional athletic ability will allow him to succeed in the league and will he be able to avoid injuries. Those 10 extra pounds of padding are nothing when a 300 pound defender slams you on the ground. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I see it the opposite way. I'm much less concerned with his height than I am with his build.

I have a problem with his build as well.  After looking at the picture of him and Murry standing side by side, he does look slight. 

I mentioned his height because that seems to be the issue with the sports media. 

 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Brees did have taller WR/TEs like Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston and his shoulder level throws hitting them in stride following their helmets and slightly longer depth of drop for his throws with his accuracy helped all around. Blown coverages past 15 yards are visible to QBs of all heights, at least those that can read Ds. Maybe that is also why we draft taller WRs.  

 

No problems there. Pitt and Pierce are 6 4 6 5. MAC and Woods are 6 5 and 6 7

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Or lots and lots of beer and pizza?

I've gained about 10 pounds of those since November. I gotta tell you ... it wasn't super hard, but it wasn't too easy either... especially since it took me 3 months and not a week.  

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Honestly the build does scare me. The best ability is availability. I love his game I think he has everything it takes to be a successful QB in the NFL, but one bad hit and I'd be scared for his future.

 

This was my thinking about a month ago. Then I really started watching him, and I think his arm is questionable. He can deliver with accuracy, has some arm angle action, quick release, etc., but velocity and distance aren't all that impressive to me. So before, my thinking was 'if not for his size, he'd be a no brainer,' and now I'm not sure that's the case.

[CR91]

Just now, Superman said:

 

This was my thinking about a month ago. Then I really started watching him, and I think his arm is questionable. He can deliver with accuracy, has some arm angle action, quick release, etc., but velocity and distance aren't all that impressive to me. So before, my thinking was 'if not for his size, he'd be a no brainer,' and now I'm not sure that's the case.

 

That's why I compared him to Brees not just for the size, but unfinished arm development. Brees wasn't the deep or velocity thrower he became, but what he did have was touch, accuracy, and footwork all the traits I believe Bryce has.

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've gained about 10 pounds of those since November. I gotta tell you ... it wasn't super hard, but it wasn't too easy either... especially since it took me 3 months and not a week.  

I went just the opposite.  In the last 3 months I have lost about 35 lbs. Completely losing my appetite and nothing tastes good. 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I went just the opposite.  In the last 3 months I have lost about 35 lbs. Completely losing my appetite and nothing tastes good. 

Hope you are in good health. 35 lbs is a lot to lose... 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Hope you are in good health. 35 lbs is a lot to lose... 

Age and health are taking its toll on me no doubt.  It's he'll getting old. 

[DougDew]

In a way, doesn't Young's small size cancel out any athleticism?  You can't really plan to run with him, or maybe not do many roll outs as to not expose him to oncoming defenders. 

 

I would think he needs to be looked at as more of a pocket passer, who can escape and slide. 

 

Does he have the arm talent to be a successful pocket passer.....worthy of a high draft pick?  

 

It doesn't seem like it.

 

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

In a way, doesn't Young's small size cancel out any athleticism?  You can't really plan to run with him, or maybe not do many roll outs as to not expose him to oncoming defenders. 

 

I would think he needs to be looked at as more of a pocket passer, who can escape and slide. 

 

Does he have the arm talent to be a successful pocket passer.....worthy of a high draft pick?  

 

It doesn't seem like it.

 

Yep. This has been my worry... IMO he will have to win from the pocket predominantly. Maybe in high leverage situations or around the goalline you can use his speed to move the pocket or to run him to the pylon... but yeah. I don't really think he will be able to do what Mahomes for example does as a playmaker out of structure.

[richard pallo]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

In a way, doesn't Young's small size cancel out any athleticism?  You can't really plan to run with him, or maybe not do many roll outs as to not expose him to oncoming defenders. 

 

I would think he needs to be looked at as more of a pocket passer, who can escape and slide. 

 

Does he have the arm talent to be a successful pocket passer.....worthy of a high draft pick?  

 

It doesn't seem like it.

 

That’s not what the experts say.  He is a pocket passer first whose pre snap and post snap reads are excellent.  His RPO reads are excellent as well.  Supposedly he’s a perfect fit for Shane’s system.  I will say he runs well when he has to and he is quick to slide.  And he’s very good at sliding too.  I can see why the Colts like him.  It’s his size you have to get past.

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That’s not what the experts say.  He is a pocket passer first whose pre snap and post snap reads are excellent.  His RPO reads are excellent as well.  Supposedly he’s a perfect fit for Shane’s system.  I will say he runs well when he has to and he is quick to slide.  And he’s very good at sliding too.  I can see why the Colts like him.  It’s his size you have to get past.

The size is not something you just discard because you want to.  There has to be a reason to discard it, and what does he excel at that makes up for it.  Its not running ability.  Its not arm talent.  If he's a pocket passer, his deep outs will look more like Sam E's than Josh Allen's.  He'll be in that "everybody else" bucket that Reich described most NFL QBs arms as being in...separating the guys that have true arm talent.

 

So Young's arm talent limits his structured play from in the pocket....and his size limits his ability to do things out of structure.  That seems like a narrow band of plays that he can be exceptional at.  Not enough to be worthy of a high pick, IMO.

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The size is not something you just discard because you want to.  There has to be a reason to discard it, and what does he excel at that makes up for it.  Its not running ability.  Its not arm talent.  If he's a pocket passer, his deep outs will look more like Sam E's than Josh Allen's.  He'll be in that "everybody else" bucket that Reich described most NFL QBs arms as being in...separating the guys that have true arm talent.

 

So Young's arm talent limits his structured play from in the pocket....and his size limits his ability to do things out of structure.  That seems like a narrow band of plays that he can be exceptional at.  Not enough to be worthy of a high pick, IMO.

And yet he is considered the top quarterback prospect in the draft.   I guess fans opinions are just that.  Opinions.  That’s why we’re just fans.  

[chad72]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I went just the opposite.  In the last 3 months I have lost about 35 lbs. Completely losing my appetite and nothing tastes good. 

Kenny, I’m definitely concerned for you man. Don’t just dismiss the weight loss as getting old, hope you get some medical advice. I know you are dealing with a lot and I’m not in your shoes but keep fighting, will be praying for you.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

And yet he is considered the top quarterback prospect in the draft.   I guess fans opinions are just that.  Opinions.  That’s why we’re just fans.  

Ant top QB prospect in THIS draft might not still be worthy of a high pick.  Some pundits are saying that about the class.

 

QBs get over valued.  And because of Mahomes and Allen, any QB with "mobility" is getting overvalued too, IMO.

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ant top QB prospect in THIS draft might not still be worthy of a high pick.  Some pundits are saying that about the class.

 

QBs get over valued.  And because of Mahomes and Allen, any QB with "mobility" is getting overvalued too, IMO.

 QBs are needed so bad teams don't have much of a  choice but to take a swing. I'm not sure of the percentages but QBs drafted have a better chance of being bust than being franchise QBs. 

The ultimate overvalued position.  

[stitches]

 

[stitches]

Well, here it is... the measurement everybody has been waiting for... Shocking the whole world, Bryce Young is actually huge:

 

 

 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Well, here it is... the measurement everybody has been waiting for... Shocking the whole world, Bryce Young is actually huge:

 

 

 

 

With offenses majority in shotgun, height really doesn't matter. Getting over 200 pounds was the most important thing. If he can get to 210 by his pro day, he's a lock for the first pick imo

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

With offenses majority in shotgun, height really doesn't matter. Getting over 200 pounds was the most important thing. If he can get to 210 by his pro day, he's a lock for the first pick imo

How does height not matter? Last time I checked it's hard to see downfield with guys thats 4-6 inches taller than you rushing after you like a freight train.  Then after that getting hit by one of those freight trains. I'm not saying he lacks the talent but his slight size is a problem. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

How does height not matter? Last time I checked it's hard to see downfield with guys thats 4-6 inches taller than you rushing after you like a freight train.  Then after that getting hit by one of those freight trains. I'm not saying he lacks the talent but his slight size is a problem. 

 

I'm saying it doesn't matter because most offenses operate in shotgun. Eagles offense id say 90 percent was shotgun. Saints offense with Brees was mostly shotgun. Same with Russ and Kyler. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm saying it doesn't matter because most offenses operate in shotgun. Eagles offense id say 90 percent was shotgun. Saints offense with Brees was mostly shotgun. Same with Russ and Kyler. 

Russ and Kyler got their tails knocked off this last season and both of them looked like crap. Bad examples. 

[CR91]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Russ and Kyler got their tails knocked off this last season and both of them looked like crap. Bad examples. 

 

You're taking one season and acting like it's their entire career. Hell Jalen is just 6 1. The days of QBs needing to be 6 5 240 are long gone.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

You're taking one season and acting like it's their entire career.

Kyler has not made the players around him better and Russ has a me me problem. I wouldn't want either one of these two on the Colts. 

[stitches]

I have no idea why we want Bryce Young to be 210lbs at 5'10" slim frame? Do we want him to lose any athleticism and movement ability he has? And before you guys say Kyler Murray or Russell Wilson, both of them were twitched up freaky athletes at the position. Young is not that. 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Kyler has not made the players around him better and Russ has a me me problem. I wouldn't want either one of these two on the Colts. 

 

Kyler took a garbage cardinal offense and turned them into one of the top offenses the previous two seasons. Also what does Russ being a me person have to do with Bryce's size?