Bryce Young, QB, Alabama

[Superman]

Here's my report on Bryce Young. Having watched him plenty at Bama, I'm sharing my thoughts. Looking forward to some of you sharing your thoughts also.

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bryce-young-1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryce_Young

 

Basic info: Born in July 2001, he'll be 22 years old at the start of the 2023 season. Born in PA, but raised in CA, and he decommitted from USC to go to Alabama (which is a testament to how far USC had fallen). He backed up Mac Jones for a year, became the starter in 2021 and won the Heisman, lost to Georgia in the championship. In 2022, he hurt his throwing shoulder during the season. Bama also lost a lot of great offensive players to the NFL, but Young had a very productive season. 

 

Size/body: Listings vary, but the team listed him at 6'0", 194 pounds, which is not close to ideal. He's one of the lower BMI NFL prospects of all time, especially for a first round QB. Without belaboring the point, he's very undersized for the position in the NFL. He appears to have good strength and balance, and does a good job avoiding big contact, but this is a major consideration. Reports say he's working to get up to 210 pounds, but until we see him play at that weight, and maintain it, I'm not putting a lot of stock into it. I absolute think size is important in the NFL, including at this position. 2/10

 

Movement/athleticism: Smooth operator in the pocket and in the open field, can make a defender miss while on the run. Good change of direction and wiggle. He has enough speed to escape the pocket, turn the corner and go. Not Kyler Murray fast or elusive, but his athleticism will work in the NFL. What I don't like is his lack of urgency on scrambles, he tends to play with his food, sliding late, not running full steam at times, leaving some yardage out on the field. I'd like to see him really finish the play with zeal, rather than in his casual manner. More in mechanics/footwork... 8/10

 

Throwing ability: His arm is good enough. I had to go back to 2021 to see some big boy throws -- not just the bombs downfield (and he underthrew Jameson Williams a few times, but also dropped quite a few in the bucket), but the far hash, deep out type throws to covered receivers (Auburn 2021). Not an elite arm, and doesn't wow with velocity on tight window throws. At his best when he's comfortable and can really anchor and torque into a throw, but there are some plays where he has a blocker in his lap and he still muscles it 45+ yards in the air. At times some of his throws to the outside would come up short, especially under pressure (LSU 2022, lots of underthrows from a crowded pocket, but that was after the shoulder injury; Texas 2022 was before the injury, and I saw several shallow/underthrown passes with unimpressive velocity. He's at his best throwing timing routes, not sure how much he can rely on his arm to beat tight coverage. 6/10

 

Accuracy: When his footwork is right and he has time, he's consistently accurate, with a few exceptions (the LSU 2022 game was bad). Touch throws, second level throws to moving and settling receivers are mostly on the money, leads receivers when appropriate. Wheel routes and go routes usually are right on target, throws a solid deep over route while giving his receiver the opportunity to adjust to the ball. He has some darts to the back/corner of the end zone. There are some plays when he's on the move or on a scramble drill where his placement is not great, a lot still result in completions but would probably not work against good defenders. His accuracy on all throws suffers tremendously when he's under pressure. 7/10

 

Mechanics/footwork: He's generally sound, again a smooth operator with fluid footwork. Big caveat, he's literally NEVER under center, always in shotgun (I seriously don't think I've seen a single snap under center), so can't speak to his drop back. I really don't like his shotgun drop, it's lackadaisical with no urgency, and I think that his timing in the pocket can be thrown off because he doesn't reach the height of his drop as quickly as he should. There are plays where he winds up getting pressured because of the timing of his drop. I don't think this is a significant issue because it's a simple fix, and it's not a habit that would be likely to pop back up in pressure situations, but it sure is annoying, and it relates back to his lack of urgency when running. He can get toes-y on throws, and he gets bouncy, which undermines delivery and accuracy; this is more concerning than the shotgun drop. You can see his progression-based passing by watching his feet, his reset is smooth, he generally sets and transfers weight appropriately, flips hips, and follows through consistently. Throwing motion is solid, and he has the ability to change his arm angle and deliver accurately. No big technical issues here, but I'm withholding a little because he's never under center. 7/10

 

Processing/anticipation/vision: Appears to be his biggest strength, and it helps he's been with Saban and O'Brien for two years. He makes good, quick reads, can go full field in order, and makes good decisions. It's important to acknowledge that he plays with top notch receiving talent so someone is always open, but he's finding them. And when teams commit to coverage, he gets to his underneath options; against blitzing teams, he gets to his hot routes. He throws with excellent anticipation, against zone or man, appears to have a good pre-snap understanding coupled with good post-snap adjustments, and a great command for the offense. While I dislike his shotgun drop, his footwork gets more aggressive on RPOs, showing that he knows what he intends to do with the ball and is committed to getting himself ready to make a quick throw, and he does so accurately. Nicely demonstrated ability to react to coverage breakdowns and make defenses pay, to all areas of the field. He can linger behind the OL longer than I think he should at times, but that's probably a product of the talent around him; he knows if he waits a little longer someone will come open, and he prefers to find a receiver rather than scramble. 9/10

 

Pocket presence: He moves well within the pocket, sensing pressure and adjusting, but he also has the luxury of a really good OL on most days, which gives him a ton of time on a consistent basis. Teams that blitzed a lot (TN 2022) seemed to fluster him and throw off his rhythm in the pocket. Covered a lot above in mechanics/footwork. I'm not certain how he'll handle NFL pass rush, given his size. He played some big opponents (especially Georgia 2021) and handled them reasonably well, but this is still an unknown due to his height. He also slips defenders in college, and I don't think he'll survive contact in the NFL the way he could at Bama. 8/10

 

Intangibles: Everyone speaks highly of him, he has a clean sheet as far as I know. One nitpick for me is just the lack of finishing on some of his run plays, coupled with his non-urgent drop backs, makes me wonder about the 'eye of the tiger' type stuff, maybe he comes across as too cool...? But scouts and interviewers will dig in on that, it's just my observation from very far away on the Internet. Bama didn't make the CFP but he still played in the bowl game, and said all the right things (contrast with Levis). He's not eligible for the Senior Bowl because he's an underclassman. I'd like to see more toughness on tape, especially given his lack of size, but he plays smart, which will absolutely be necessary for him to survive in the NFL.  8/10

 

Projection: The size comparisons pop up immediately, and I try to resist Drew Brees, but I think it's appropriate. He's obviously more athletic, but he's not going to take defenses apart with his legs, and he's not going to throw 60 yards downfield off his back foot. He has to make teams pay from the pocket, decisively, and what he does outside of structure will be a bonus, but should be done sparingly, because I question his ability to hold up physically. Tua is another comparison in terms of play style and ability, but Tua is 20 pounds heavier, and Young is quicker/faster and has more elusiveness. 

 

Remaining QB prospects: CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson, Hendon Hooker. (A couple other names have been offered up, not sure if they'll happen though. I definitely want to get through the five before the Combine.)

 

Will Levis

[FalseStart]

Young or Stroud are the only real options in the first or at least the top half of the first. The cost in current and future picks is just too much to pay to move up for QB3 (Levi’s) that we may already have on the team. I think we should aim for trading back getting 3-4 picks in the top 40-50. Think Peyton Manning’s Denver Team (Defense) that won the SB. As for Young/Stroud, might be Drew Brees might be Alex Smith… 

[Coltsbluefan]

Don’t think none of these QBs will be franchise type but could be good QBs in the NFL.None of these QBs are gonna be worth trading a Kings ransom for,we should just stay where we’re at and take the best one that’s available.

[stitches]

Thanks for this report, Superman. Adding some of my thoughts below... 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Here's my report on Bryce Young. Having watched him plenty at Bama, I'm sharing my thoughts. Looking forward to some of you sharing your thoughts also.

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bryce-young-1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryce_Young

 

Basic info: Born in July 2001, he'll be 22 years old at the start of the 2023 season. Born in PA, but raised in CA, and he decommitted from USC to go to Alabama (which is a testament to how far USC had fallen). He backed up Mac Jones for a year, became the starter in 2021 and won the Heisman, lost to Georgia in the championship. In 2022, he hurt his throwing shoulder during the season. Bama also lost a lot of great offensive players to the NFL, but Young had a very productive season. 

 

Size/body: Listings vary, but the team listed him at 6'0", 194 pounds, which is not close to ideal. He's one of the lower BMI NFL prospects of all time, especially for a first round QB. Without belaboring the point, he's very undersized for the position in the NFL. He appears to have good strength and balance, and does a good job avoiding big contact, but this is a major consideration. Reports say he's working to get up to 210 pounds, but until we see him play at that weight, and maintain it, I'm not putting a lot of stock into it. I absolute think size is important in the NFL, including at this position. 2/10

The thing is... even if he gets to 210 pounds. What exactly would that mean? Do we think this is a healthy way to increase the weight of an athlete? Add 20 pounds in 2 months? Do we think he will keep that weight when playing? Or is it just for show for the combine? If so, what's the point? And if he can keep that weight... what happens with his mobility and athleticism? How do we evaluate that? 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Movement/athleticism: Smooth operator in the pocket and in the open field, can make a defender miss while on the run. Good change of direction and wiggle. He has enough speed to escape the pocket, turn the corner and go. Not Kyler Murray fast or elusive, but his athleticism will work in the NFL. What I don't like is his lack of urgency on scrambles, he tends to play with his food, sliding late, not running full steam at times, leaving some yardage out on the field. I'd like to see him really finish the play with zeal, rather than in his casual manner. More in mechanics/footwork... 8/10

I have some questions about his functional athleticism at the NFL level. I'm not quite certain he will be able to win with athleticism and movement. Greg Cosell shocked everybody when in the pre-draft process said he doesn't think Tua is of the Kyler/Russell Wilson variety of athlete and that he will need to win from the pocket in order to be successful(and he turned out absolutely correct on that). I'm getting similar hints from Bryce Young. For a player who many think is a great athlete... his stats don't quite paint that picture - as freshman he had negative yardage as a runner(limited snaps), as a sophomore he had 0(ZERO) yards on 81 attempts as a runner and this year he's at 185 yards from 49 attempts. Those are not the stats of a dynamic athletic weapon at QB. He looks much closer to the Tua/Baker mold to me than the other small but athletically explosive athletes like Russell Wilson used to be or like Kyler Murray. Not sure how important that is, but I kind of feel the same way about him - he will need to win predominantly from the pocket IMO. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Throwing ability: His arm is good enough. I had to go back to 2021 to see some big boy throws -- not just the bombs downfield (and he underthrew Jameson Williams a few times, but also dropped quite a few in the bucket), but the far hash, deep out type throws to covered receivers (Auburn 2021). Not an elite arm, and doesn't wow with velocity on tight window throws. At his best when he's comfortable and can really anchor and torque into a throw, but there are some plays where he has a blocker in his lap and he still muscles it 45+ yards in the air. At times some of his throws to the outside would come up short, especially under pressure (LSU 2022, lots of underthrows from a crowded pocket, but that was after the shoulder injury; Texas 2022 was before the injury, and I saw several shallow/underthrown passes with unimpressive velocity. He's at his best throwing timing routes, not sure how much he can rely on his arm to beat tight coverage. 6/10

Agreed... again, very similar to Tua IMO. Not an elite arm. I think it's average at best. Even when he manages to throw some bombs downfield he really needs to step into his throw and it doesn't look seamless ... it looks labored. Some throws requiring velocity occasionally die on him. IMO if he has time and space he can make most throws, but IMO he will have trouble throwing off-platform in the league. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Accuracy: When his footwork is right and he has time, he's consistently accurate, with a few exceptions (the LSU 2022 game was bad). Touch throws, second level throws to moving and settling receivers are mostly on the money, leads receivers when appropriate. Wheel routes and go routes usually are right on target, throws a solid deep over route while giving his receiver the opportunity to adjust to the ball. He has some darts to the back/corner of the end zone. There are some plays when he's on the move or on a scramble drill where his placement is not great, a lot still result in completions but would probably not work against good defenders. His accuracy on all throws suffers tremendously when he's under pressure. 7/10

I like his accuracy when he's kept clean. I think he has one of the better ball placements in this draft. But like I said above - when things get muddy around him, his throws suffer too... 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Mechanics/footwork: He's generally sound, again a smooth operator with fluid footwork. Big caveat, he's literally NEVER under center, always in shotgun (I seriously don't think I've seen a single snap under center), so can't speak to his drop back. I really don't like his shotgun drop, it's lackadaisical with no urgency, and I think that his timing in the pocket can be thrown off because he doesn't reach the height of his drop as quickly as he should. There are plays where he winds up getting pressured because of the timing of his drop. I don't think this is a significant issue because it's a simple fix, and it's not a habit that would be likely to pop back up in pressure situations, but it sure is annoying, and it relates back to his lack of urgency when running. He can get toes-y on throws, and he gets bouncy, which undermines delivery and accuracy; this is more concerning than the shotgun drop. You can see his progression-based passing by watching his feet, his reset is smooth, he generally sets and transfers weight appropriately, flips hips, and follows through consistently. Throwing motion is solid, and he has the ability to change his arm angle and deliver accurately. No big technical issues here, but I'm withholding a little because he's never under center. 7/10

Yeah... I'm no mechanics expert so I leave it to others. I don't see anything out of the ordinary when I watch him throw. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Processing/anticipation/vision: Appears to be his biggest strength, and it helps he's been with Saban and O'Brien for two years. He makes good, quick reads, can go full field in order, and makes good decisions. It's important to acknowledge that he plays with top notch receiving talent so someone is always open, but he's finding them. And when teams commit to coverage, he gets to his underneath options; against blitzing teams, he gets to his hot routes. He throws with excellent anticipation, against zone or man, appears to have a good pre-snap understanding coupled with good post-snap adjustments, and a great command for the offense. While I dislike his shotgun drop, his footwork gets more aggressive on RPOs, showing that he knows what he intends to do with the ball and is committed to getting himself ready to make a quick throw, and he does so accurately. Nicely demonstrated ability to react to coverage breakdowns and make defenses pay, to all areas of the field. He can linger behind the OL longer than I think he should at times, but that's probably a product of the talent around him; he knows if he waits a little longer someone will come open, and he prefers to find a receiver rather than scramble. 9/10

This is where he shines. He just knows how to play. IMO he looks like he has it all when it comes to mental processing, reading the field, recognizing what he sees pre-snap and post-snap and making throws with great vision and anticipation. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Pocket presence: He moves well within the pocket, sensing pressure and adjusting, but he also has the luxury of a really good OL on most days, which gives him a ton of time on a consistent basis. Teams that blitzed a lot (TN 2022) seemed to fluster him and throw off his rhythm in the pocket. Covered a lot above in mechanics/footwork. I'm not certain how he'll handle NFL pass rush, given his size. He played some big opponents (especially Georgia 2021) and handled them reasonably well, but this is still an unknown due to his height. He also slips defenders in college, and I don't think he'll survive contact in the NFL the way he could at Bama. 8/10

Agreed again... looks very solid in this regard. Makes appropriate micro adjustments in the pocket. Good feel about when he needs to leave the pocket. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Intangibles: Everyone speaks highly of him, he has a clean sheet as far as I know. One nitpick for me is just the lack of finishing on some of his run plays, coupled with his non-urgent drop backs, makes me wonder about the 'eye of the tiger' type stuff, maybe he comes across as too cool...? But scouts and interviewers will dig in on that, it's just my observation from very far away on the Internet. Bama didn't make the CFP but he still played in the bowl game, and said all the right things (contrast with Levis). He's not eligible for the Senior Bowl because he's an underclassman. I'd like to see more toughness on tape, especially given his lack of size, but he plays smart, which will absolutely be necessary for him to survive in the NFL.  8/10

Yeah... IMO he was saving his body for the NFL in some of those situations. No idea if he will sacrifice himself for the team and no idea if it's even a good idea. Maybe in the long-run it's better for him to be on the cautious side than the reckless side, having in mind his stature and body. 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Projection: The size comparisons pop up immediately, and I try to resist Drew Brees, but I think it's appropriate. He's obviously more athletic, but he's not going to take defenses apart with his legs, and he's not going to throw 60 yards downfield off his back foot. He has to make teams pay from the pocket, decisively, and what he does outside of structure will be a bonus, but should be done sparingly, because I question his ability to hold up physically. Tua is another comparison in terms of play style and ability, but Tua is 20 pounds heavier, and Young is quicker/faster and has more elusiveness. 

Yep, absolutely agreed... he will need to win from the pocket. I don't believe he will be as dynamic looking in the NFL as he did in some cases in college. I wonder if an NFL team would make him take snaps from under center or would they just retool their offense to suit what he's used to? 

 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Remaining QB prospects: CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson, Hendon Hooker. (A couple other names have been offered up, not sure if they'll happen though. I definitely want to get through the five before the Combine.)

 

Will Levis

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

I have some questions about his functional athleticism at the NFL level. I'm not quite certain he will be able to win with athleticism and movement. Greg Cosell shocked everybody when in the pre-draft process said he doesn't think Tua is of the Kyler/Russell Wilson variety of athlete and that he will need to win from the pocket in order to be successful(and he turned out absolutely correct on that). I'm getting similar hints from Bryce Young. For a player who many think is a great athlete... his stats don't quite paint that picture - as freshman he had negative yardage as a runner(limited snaps), as a sophomore he had 0(ZERO) yards on 81 attempts as a runner and this year he's at 185 yards from 49 attempts. Those are not the stats of a dynamic athletic weapon at QB. He looks much closer to the Tua/Baker mold to me than the other small but athletically explosive athletes like Russell Wilson used to be or like Kyler Murray. Not sure how important that is, but I kind of feel the same way about him - he will need to win predominantly from the pocket IMO. 

 

I think he's a better athlete than Tua/Baker, but he's definitely no Kyler or early RW. He doesn't run a lot because he simply doesn't have to; when you have Jameson Williams, John Metchie, and Brian Robinson, just get them the ball. When he does run, the speed and quickness are there, but he's not blowing past DBs or anything. Great athlete, no. But his athleticism can be a tool, if not a weapon.

 

 

Quote

Yeah... IMO he was saving his body for the NFL in some of those situations. No idea if he will sacrifice himself for the team and no idea if it's even a good idea. Maybe in the long-run it's better for him to be on the cautious side than the reckless side, having in mind his stature and body. 

 

It's not about diving around and playing recklessly to get a couple extra yards. It's about him breaking contain, and then just kind of sauntering his way out of bounds, or jogging in the open field and getting caught from behind. Sometimes, toying around and sliding late/awkwardly. Just get your yardage, then get down or out of bounds.

 

Utah State, 3:40 -- gets caught from behind (he does a version of this five more times in this game, and I hate it)

 

 

[r a y s k i]

15 hours ago, FalseStart said:

Young or Stroud are the only real options in the first or at least the top half of the first. The cost in current and future picks is just too much to pay to move up for QB3 (Levi’s) that we may already have on the team. I think we should aim for trading back getting 3-4 picks in the top 40-50. Think Peyton Manning’s Denver Team (Defense) that won the SB. As for Young/Stroud, might be Drew Brees might be Alex Smith… 

I have this feeling about Richardson becoming a stud in the NFL, not backed up by any data, he just feels like someone who can compete in this age

[MikeCurtis]

29 minutes ago, rayski said:

I have this feeling about Richardson becoming a stud in the NFL, not backed up by any data, he just feels like someone who can compete in this age

First off.. Thanks Superman for writing this up on Young

 

I would be very happy with either Young or Stroud as our pick

 

 

In regards to Richardson

 

If teams trade up and both Young and Stroud are gone (I think its a small chance)

 

But.... If that happens, I would consider taking Richardson over Levis

 

at 4

 

I really dont want to give up 2 firsts and 2 2nds and a player for a move up to 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

To summarize.  Young is a small person by NFL standards, who has a great brain for the game but not a great arm in terms of strength, accuracy when on the move.  And is very athletic but not really athletically elite.

 

Maybe Young could be described as being an athletic version of Chad Pennington?  Not unlike Purdy or Bennett.  Where was Chad drafted?

[Defjamz26]

In regards to his size, I’ve heard people say that he’s closer to 5’10” which is really concerning.

 

After listening to the Locked on Colts podcast and seeing posts like this, I think the QB is going to come down to one important question. Would you rather have Stroud/Young knowing that they may never be able to do the things Levis/Richardson can, or would you rather take Levis/Richardson who aren’t where Young or Stroud are now?

[FalseStart]

2 hours ago, rayski said:

I have this feeling about Richardson becoming a stud in the NFL, not backed up by any data, he just feels like someone who can compete in this age

 

Richardson in the middle/ late first with an extra second rounder, sure I might take a swing.  Could be Steve McNair...Warren Moon...Big Ben could be Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart.  Point being, we would still get those two needed starters at positions of need.  We absolutely need to get 2 impact players before the 3rd round.  

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

In regards to his size, I’ve heard people say that he’s closer to 5’10” which is really concerning.

 

After listening to the Locked on Colts podcast and seeing posts like this, I think the QB is going to come down to one important question. Would you rather have Stroud/Young knowing that they may never be able to do the things Levis/Richardson can, or would you rather take Levis/Richardson who aren’t where Young or Stroud are now?

I think they should stay at #4.  If their not happy with a QB at 4, then take offers for trades.  

[Defjamz26]

18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think they should stay at #4.  If their not happy with a QB at 4, then take offers for trades.  

Just depends on who your guy is. Levis may be there at 4. Texans may take You g or Stroud. 

[ztboiler]

16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think he's a better athlete than Tua/Baker, but he's definitely no Kyler or early RW. He doesn't run a lot because he simply doesn't have to; when you have Jameson Williams, John Metchie, and Brian Robinson, just get them the ball. When he does run, the speed and quickness are there, but he's not blowing past DBs or anything. Great athlete, no. But his athleticism can be a tool, if not a weapon.

 

 

 

It's not about diving around and playing recklessly to get a couple extra yards. It's about him breaking contain, and then just kind of sauntering his way out of bounds, or jogging in the open field and getting caught from behind. Sometimes, toying around and sliding late/awkwardly. Just get your yardage, then get down or out of bounds.

 

Utah State, 3:40 -- gets caught from behind (he does a version of this five more times in this game, and I hate it)

 

 

I'm confident you've watched a lot more of B. Young than I ever will...and it's draft season, so we have to analyze every detail and situation then make a projection.  He's not an elite prospect, and he might not be deserving of the draft capital it would take to pick him at 1 from 4.  It's simple to me with Young.  He's phenomenal before the snap and after the play breaks down with the rhythm, balance and athletic profile to avoid pressure, reset, and deliver the ball accurately to the best option available.  He's faster than he's getting credit for, but that matters little since you only want him running in clear air anyway.  But more than that, he's a quick/sudden athlete, every bit the peer of defenders chasing him (even DB's) in short to medium areas.  He's like a point guard to me that always has you off balance with the handles and quickness to beat any defender to the basket.  Lastly, Young just gets better and better as the stakes get higher.  A QB whose mind gets clear as the noise grows deafening possesses one of the most rare skillsets of all-time.

 

That said, like most QB's, you better put him in the right situation.  Don't ask him to be Josh Allen (I'm not sure the Bills should be asking Josh Allen to be Josh Allen) He's the ideal Shanahan system QB, a rich man's Brock Purdy...and that's a pretty good direction to take your offense in my book.  I don't believe B. Young is a top 10 pick on Ballard's board, and Ballard may get that right in the end, but Young is a far superior prospect to me than all of the recent top picks sans TLaw, Burrow and Herbert (and I mean before we had their NFL failures to evaluate).  In the same draft class, before seeing any of them play an NFL snap, I'd have taken him over Mahomes, Watson, Allen etc.  I'd have been wrong, of course, but as a polished prospect who will translate to a well coached NFL system, he's pretty much a sure thing.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Just depends on who your guy is. Levis may be there at 4. Texans may take You g or Stroud. 

We don't have a clue on where the players are placed on the draft board.  Probably have some changes after the Senior bowl and combine.  

[Defjamz26]

44 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We don't have a clue on where the players are placed on the draft board.  Probably have some changes after the Senior bowl and combine.  

For sure. But Levis is the guy who fits what Ballard values in players, so he may be the guy higher on the board.

-Leadership

-Character

-Size

-Athleticism 

 

Willis checks all of those boxes. After the combine if Willis runs in the 4.6 range, he may be even higher. Also Colts had scouts at I think 4 different Kentucky games, so it’s not a reach to say there is definitely some intrigue there.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:01 PM, Superman said:

Here's my report on Bryce Young. Having watched him plenty at Bama, I'm sharing my thoughts. Looking forward to some of you sharing your thoughts also.

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bryce-young-1.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryce_Young

 

Basic info: Born in July 2001, he'll be 22 years old at the start of the 2023 season. Born in PA, but raised in CA, and he decommitted from USC to go to Alabama (which is a testament to how far USC had fallen). He backed up Mac Jones for a year, became the starter in 2021 and won the Heisman, lost to Georgia in the championship. In 2022, he hurt his throwing shoulder during the season. Bama also lost a lot of great offensive players to the NFL, but Young had a very productive season. 

 

Size/body: Listings vary, but the team listed him at 6'0", 194 pounds, which is not close to ideal. He's one of the lower BMI NFL prospects of all time, especially for a first round QB. Without belaboring the point, he's very undersized for the position in the NFL. He appears to have good strength and balance, and does a good job avoiding big contact, but this is a major consideration. Reports say he's working to get up to 210 pounds, but until we see him play at that weight, and maintain it, I'm not putting a lot of stock into it. I absolute think size is important in the NFL, including at this position. 2/10

 

Movement/athleticism: Smooth operator in the pocket and in the open field, can make a defender miss while on the run. Good change of direction and wiggle. He has enough speed to escape the pocket, turn the corner and go. Not Kyler Murray fast or elusive, but his athleticism will work in the NFL. What I don't like is his lack of urgency on scrambles, he tends to play with his food, sliding late, not running full steam at times, leaving some yardage out on the field. I'd like to see him really finish the play with zeal, rather than in his casual manner. More in mechanics/footwork... 8/10

 

Throwing ability: His arm is good enough. I had to go back to 2021 to see some big boy throws -- not just the bombs downfield (and he underthrew Jameson Williams a few times, but also dropped quite a few in the bucket), but the far hash, deep out type throws to covered receivers (Auburn 2021). Not an elite arm, and doesn't wow with velocity on tight window throws. At his best when he's comfortable and can really anchor and torque into a throw, but there are some plays where he has a blocker in his lap and he still muscles it 45+ yards in the air. At times some of his throws to the outside would come up short, especially under pressure (LSU 2022, lots of underthrows from a crowded pocket, but that was after the shoulder injury; Texas 2022 was before the injury, and I saw several shallow/underthrown passes with unimpressive velocity. He's at his best throwing timing routes, not sure how much he can rely on his arm to beat tight coverage. 6/10

 

Accuracy: When his footwork is right and he has time, he's consistently accurate, with a few exceptions (the LSU 2022 game was bad). Touch throws, second level throws to moving and settling receivers are mostly on the money, leads receivers when appropriate. Wheel routes and go routes usually are right on target, throws a solid deep over route while giving his receiver the opportunity to adjust to the ball. He has some darts to the back/corner of the end zone. There are some plays when he's on the move or on a scramble drill where his placement is not great, a lot still result in completions but would probably not work against good defenders. His accuracy on all throws suffers tremendously when he's under pressure. 7/10

 

Mechanics/footwork: He's generally sound, again a smooth operator with fluid footwork. Big caveat, he's literally NEVER under center, always in shotgun (I seriously don't think I've seen a single snap under center), so can't speak to his drop back. I really don't like his shotgun drop, it's lackadaisical with no urgency, and I think that his timing in the pocket can be thrown off because he doesn't reach the height of his drop as quickly as he should. There are plays where he winds up getting pressured because of the timing of his drop. I don't think this is a significant issue because it's a simple fix, and it's not a habit that would be likely to pop back up in pressure situations, but it sure is annoying, and it relates back to his lack of urgency when running. He can get toes-y on throws, and he gets bouncy, which undermines delivery and accuracy; this is more concerning than the shotgun drop. You can see his progression-based passing by watching his feet, his reset is smooth, he generally sets and transfers weight appropriately, flips hips, and follows through consistently. Throwing motion is solid, and he has the ability to change his arm angle and deliver accurately. No big technical issues here, but I'm withholding a little because he's never under center. 7/10

 

Processing/anticipation/vision: Appears to be his biggest strength, and it helps he's been with Saban and O'Brien for two years. He makes good, quick reads, can go full field in order, and makes good decisions. It's important to acknowledge that he plays with top notch receiving talent so someone is always open, but he's finding them. And when teams commit to coverage, he gets to his underneath options; against blitzing teams, he gets to his hot routes. He throws with excellent anticipation, against zone or man, appears to have a good pre-snap understanding coupled with good post-snap adjustments, and a great command for the offense. While I dislike his shotgun drop, his footwork gets more aggressive on RPOs, showing that he knows what he intends to do with the ball and is committed to getting himself ready to make a quick throw, and he does so accurately. Nicely demonstrated ability to react to coverage breakdowns and make defenses pay, to all areas of the field. He can linger behind the OL longer than I think he should at times, but that's probably a product of the talent around him; he knows if he waits a little longer someone will come open, and he prefers to find a receiver rather than scramble. 9/10

 

Pocket presence: He moves well within the pocket, sensing pressure and adjusting, but he also has the luxury of a really good OL on most days, which gives him a ton of time on a consistent basis. Teams that blitzed a lot (TN 2022) seemed to fluster him and throw off his rhythm in the pocket. Covered a lot above in mechanics/footwork. I'm not certain how he'll handle NFL pass rush, given his size. He played some big opponents (especially Georgia 2021) and handled them reasonably well, but this is still an unknown due to his height. He also slips defenders in college, and I don't think he'll survive contact in the NFL the way he could at Bama. 8/10

 

Intangibles: Everyone speaks highly of him, he has a clean sheet as far as I know. One nitpick for me is just the lack of finishing on some of his run plays, coupled with his non-urgent drop backs, makes me wonder about the 'eye of the tiger' type stuff, maybe he comes across as too cool...? But scouts and interviewers will dig in on that, it's just my observation from very far away on the Internet. Bama didn't make the CFP but he still played in the bowl game, and said all the right things (contrast with Levis). He's not eligible for the Senior Bowl because he's an underclassman. I'd like to see more toughness on tape, especially given his lack of size, but he plays smart, which will absolutely be necessary for him to survive in the NFL.  8/10

 

Projection: The size comparisons pop up immediately, and I try to resist Drew Brees, but I think it's appropriate. He's obviously more athletic, but he's not going to take defenses apart with his legs, and he's not going to throw 60 yards downfield off his back foot. He has to make teams pay from the pocket, decisively, and what he does outside of structure will be a bonus, but should be done sparingly, because I question his ability to hold up physically. Tua is another comparison in terms of play style and ability, but Tua is 20 pounds heavier, and Young is quicker/faster and has more elusiveness. 

 

Remaining QB prospects: CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson, Hendon Hooker. (A couple other names have been offered up, not sure if they'll happen though. I definitely want to get through the five before the Combine.)

 

Will Levis

Thanks for doing this review, I loved to read your take on his Processing/anticipation/vision and I wish he wasn’t soo compromised in other areas, lol. I don’t like that you need to build so much of the team to hide his limitations, I don’t feel comfortable with that. Having said that, I would really love to have a QB with top Processing/anticipation/vision - that is the most important trait to me. Oh well…

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Thanks for doing this review, I loved to read your take on his Processing/anticipation/vision and I wish he wasn’t soo compromised in other areas, lol. I don’t like that you need to build so much of the team to hide his limitations, I don’t feel comfortable with that. Having said that, I would really love to have a QB with top Processing/anticipation/vision - that is the most important trait to me. Oh well…

You can't have everything 

 

These traits are great to have and very few have them at high level, it's okay to take risks and see how it works, rather than leaving him out of choices and keep on looking for all the right things to culminate in one guy again. 

[Superman]

On 1/28/2023 at 8:00 AM, ztboiler said:

I'm confident you've watched a lot more of B. Young than I ever will...and it's draft season, so we have to analyze every detail and situation then make a projection.  He's not an elite prospect, and he might not be deserving of the draft capital it would take to pick him at 1 from 4.  It's simple to me with Young.  He's phenomenal before the snap and after the play breaks down with the rhythm, balance and athletic profile to avoid pressure, reset, and deliver the ball accurately to the best option available.  He's faster than he's getting credit for, but that matters little since you only want him running in clear air anyway.  But more than that, he's a quick/sudden athlete, every bit the peer of defenders chasing him (even DB's) in short to medium areas.  He's like a point guard to me that always has you off balance with the handles and quickness to beat any defender to the basket.  Lastly, Young just gets better and better as the stakes get higher.  A QB whose mind gets clear as the noise grows deafening possesses one of the most rare skillsets of all-time.

 

That said, like most QB's, you better put him in the right situation.  Don't ask him to be Josh Allen (I'm not sure the Bills should be asking Josh Allen to be Josh Allen) He's the ideal Shanahan system QB, a rich man's Brock Purdy...and that's a pretty good direction to take your offense in my book.  I don't believe B. Young is a top 10 pick on Ballard's board, and Ballard may get that right in the end, but Young is a far superior prospect to me than all of the recent top picks sans TLaw, Burrow and Herbert (and I mean before we had their NFL failures to evaluate).  In the same draft class, before seeing any of them play an NFL snap, I'd have taken him over Mahomes, Watson, Allen etc.  I'd have been wrong, of course, but as a polished prospect who will translate to a well coached NFL system, he's pretty much a sure thing.

 

Bryce Young isn't even as good a runner as any of those guys you named (maybe Burrow). And of course, they all had much better arms. I don't agree that he's a better prospect than those guys, maybe with the exception of Allen, who was a tools/traits prospect with significant question marks. I think to a certain extent I'd agree that he has a higher floor than some of those guys -- Mahomes, Watson, Allen...

 

I also agree that he's shown some ability to get better as the stakes get higher, the 2021 SEC championship vs Georgia is a good example of that. But if you watch that game, what really stands out is just how freaking good Jameson Williams was. This is where the questions about supporting cast start to matter, IMO.

 

Based on the QB specific traits that can be seen on tape, he's a really good prospect. I think there's a valid question about his arm strength, but he still looks good enough. The real issue is his size, and there's no point ignoring it or pretending that it doesn't matter. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have some success, but durability and injury are major questions. I also think he gets away from some tackles in college that he wouldn't be able to get away from in the pros, so his ability to make plays while scrambling could be diminished.

 

You mentioned him as a Shanahan QB, but he's never under center, which would be a problem. He does run some pistol play action, so he can turn his back to the defense and still find his receivers. But taking a traditional drop, especially with a play action fake, is something that's just not on tape. It's definitely possible that he can do it, but we don't have proof so far.

[ztboiler]

16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Bryce Young isn't even as good a runner as any of those guys you named (maybe Burrow). And of course, they all had much better arms. I don't agree that he's a better prospect than those guys, maybe with the exception of Allen, who was a tools/traits prospect with significant question marks. I think to a certain extent I'd agree that he has a higher floor than some of those guys -- Mahomes, Watson, Allen...

 

I also agree that he's shown some ability to get better as the stakes get higher, the 2021 SEC championship vs Georgia is a good example of that. But if you watch that game, what really stands out is just how freaking good Jameson Williams was. This is where the questions about supporting cast start to matter, IMO.

 

Based on the QB specific traits that can be seen on tape, he's a really good prospect. I think there's a valid question about his arm strength, but he still looks good enough. The real issue is his size, and there's no point ignoring it or pretending that it doesn't matter. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have some success, but durability and injury are major questions. I also think he gets away from some tackles in college that he wouldn't be able to get away from in the pros, so his ability to make plays while scrambling could be diminished.

 

You mentioned him as a Shanahan QB, but he's never under center, which would be a problem. He does run some pistol play action, so he can turn his back to the defense and still find his receivers. But taking a traditional drop, especially with a play action fake, is something that's just not on tape. It's definitely possible that he can do it, but we don't have proof so far.

Bryce Young as a runner isn’t a feature I referenced…though his athletic abilities, physical and innate, do enhance his play making abilities, and elevate him as a prospect.  He’s fast, but that doesn’t make him a runner.

 

For me, his combined traits project better to the NFL than Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Darnold etc…better than everyone other than Burrow, Herbert, and TLaw.  But the deficiencies are certainly present as noted…and it will take a team willing to overlook those deficiencies.  Everybody drafts an imperfect prospect in the end, and Young has already demonstrated fantastic ability to overcome his deficiencies against folks that will play on Sundays…so I like his odds.

[stitches]

 

[PRnum1]

I agree with the OP, he underthrows alot when throwing to the outside.  Not sure if he played hurt last season but 2021 was a better season for him.  I think he regressed in 2022.

 

Here is an example of one of his underthrows to the outside.

 

Notice it was from a completely clean pocket.

 

 

[coltsfeva]

The thing is, between Levis,  Stroud and Richardson, the Colts may be okay, long term.

  I would hate to move up for Young and lose this year’s 2nd and next year’s 1st, if the three are even close to Young. We need another pass rusher and some Oline help, maybe a secondary guy, blocking TE and WR. 

[Smoke317]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:29 PM, PRnum1 said:

I agree with the OP, he underthrows alot when throwing to the outside.  Not sure if he played hurt last season but 2021 was a better season for him.  I think he regressed in 2022.

 

Here is an example of one of his underthrows to the outside.

 

Notice it was from a completely clean pocket.

 

 

You picked the game where he had lost both of his top receivers. And there was clearly a miscommunication with 2 receivers in the same area.  He definitely played bad in this game though. Go back and watch their previous matchup where he still had at least 1 of his top receivers. He had no problem making all the throws.  He’s definitely more Brees & Manning like as far as arm strength. More anticipation than strong arming throws in like a Herbert or Elway. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I heard someone describe Young as small, slow and have a weak arm. 

I don't think he's slow or his arm is weak but probably only average at best. The combine will tell us a lot assuming he fully participates which I expect. 

His strengths are above his neck for sure and is probably mentally able to start quickly if not on Day 1. He has a chance to be a upper echelon NFL QB if his measurables aren't prohibiting negative, which the combine may show? ....and then I think his Draft stock will drop. 

 

Draft outlook: 

If he does well at the combine(weight, 40yard dash, arm strenght) I think the Bears or Houston draft him.

 

If he doesn't do so well at the combine, I think he'll be available at #4 and the colts will likely pass on him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Young is who I would take if he is there. He also played injured last season in a few games. I keep saying he will put on weight when he gets with the proper NFL nutritionist's and hits the weights. His size doesn't bother me like it does some people. Superman's post points out, he doesn't have many weaknesses. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:39 PM, coltsfeva said:

The thing is, between Levis,  Stroud and Richardson, the Colts may be okay, long term.

  I would hate to move up for Young and lose this year’s 2nd and next year’s 1st, if the three are even close to Young. We need another pass rusher and some Oline help, maybe a secondary guy, blocking TE and WR. 

 

It's ok to lose draft picks if your QB has a good chance of being elite. Bryce Young can be mentally elite from what we hear, but if his size, arm strength, and speed are severely lacking then that may be too much to overcome, especially long-term. 

The combine should say a lot. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Young is who I would take if he is there. He also played injured last season in a few games. I keep saying he will put on weight when he gets with the proper NFL nutritionist's and hits the weights. His size doesn't bother me like it does some people. Superman's post points out, he doesn't have many weaknesses. 

 

I'm more interested in his arm strength and speed and acceleration. 

I think if his measurables add up, the Bears are drafting him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would be ok with Stroud as well. Stroud is obviously bigger and stronger, he isn't as fast as Young though and to me Young has a good arm, it isn't great but good enough.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I'm more interested in his arm strength and speed and acceleration. 

I think if his measurables add up, the Bears are drafting him.

His arm strength isn't great but good. I will cringe if we draft Will Levis. But hey I could be wrong about Levis. I just watched him play 3 stinkers this past year = Georgia, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt. My uncle is also from Kentucky and gets all their games, he likes Young much better.

[stitches]

33 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

I heard someone describe Young as small, slow and have a weak arm. 

I don't think he's slow or his arm is weak but probably only average at best. The combine will tell us a lot assuming he fully participates which I expect. 

Yeah, he's not slow. But I also don't think he's blazing fast(like Kyler Murray or early years Russell Wilson). 

33 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

His strengths are above his neck for sure and is probably mentally able to start quickly if not on Day 1. He has a chance to be a upper echelon NFL QB if his measurables aren't prohibiting negative, which the combine may show? ....and then I think his Draft stock will drop. 

Yeah, his strengths are vision, processing, playmaking... he's a bit of a gamer(which I consider a positive)

33 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Draft outlook: 

If he does well at the combine(weight, 40yard dash, arm strenght) I think the Bears or Houston draft him.

 

If he doesn't do so well at the combine, I think he'll be available at #4 and the colts will likely pass on him. 

No idea how much he will do at the combine. IMO there is a real chance he won't throw, simply because people will realize just how much of a difference there is between him and Levis/RIchardson if you put them on the same field and let them throw one after the other. He might not run either. Not all QBs run at the combine. If he did, I would expect him to run about 4.6-4.7? And he most probably won't run if he's been trying to gain weight just for the combine... I don't know how much I would take from his weigh in... how would we know his weight is legit and not just a sham for the combine? It's so easy to just chug a gallon of water before the weigh in, or gain bad weight just to show he's over 200. Would it really matter that he weighed in 195-200 at the combine when he comes back for training camp and he's 180? 

 

And how much would it matter if he's 180? 

[stitches]

Article by Zach Hicks:

How Shane Steichen Could Build an Offense Around Bryce Young

[chad72]

44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would be ok with Stroud as well. Stroud is obviously bigger and stronger, he isn't as fast as Young though and to me Young has a good arm, it isn't great but good enough.

 

I want either Stroud or Young. Both of them will reap rewards after a year of good coaching. Levis and Richardson will take at least 2-3 years and will be purely traits based QB choices at the top of the draft, and like Josh Allen benefited from Brian Daboll, they should hope they get put in touch with a real QB whisperer because it took Allen a good 3 years to make that turnaround, just like it did with Jalen Hurts. 

 

Both Levis and Richardson, I have a hard time drafting them Top 10 but QBs are always overdrafted. It is all up to what Steichen and Ballard are willing to be patient with. I bet Stroud or Young show their ceiling faster within 1-2 years and both are capable of making the big jump in year 2.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

His arm strength isn't great but good. I will cringe if we draft Will Levis. But hey I could be wrong about Levis. I just watched him play 3 stinkers this past year = Georgia, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt. My uncle is also from Kentucky and gets all their games, he likes Young much better.

 

Yeah, the eye test, like yours, and this article gave me plenty of pause:

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/will-levis-josh-allen-2023-nfl-draft/

 

If Levis didn't have a gun of an arm, he would be out of the Top 10, hands down. What makes it so hard to evaluate however is he didn't have top tier receiving talent but even then, some of the decisions he made didn't need to be made, IMO.

[stitches]

Tota scorel: 55/80

[CR91]

If Bryce was the size of Stroud or Levis, there would be no discussion. He's the best QB in this draft. He has everything you want. Strong arm, super athletic, leader, winner, all the mental intangibles. Imo, if he can get to 210 hes going first rather that's us or the Texans. I'm curious if the threat of Bryce being in the division for years outweighs his physical limitations for the colts.

[Zoltan]

32 minutes ago, CR91 said:

If Bryce was the size of Stroud or Levis, there would be no discussion. He's the best QB in this draft. He has everything you want. Strong arm, super athletic, leader, winner, all the mental intangibles. Imo, if he can get to 210 hes going first rather that's us or the Texans. I'm curious if the threat of Bryce being in the division for years outweighs his physical limitations for the colts.

You are right if Bryce comes into the combine at 5'11" to 6 foot and weighs 200-210 lbs, I think he is undisputed 1st overall.

[Superman]

13 hours ago, CR91 said:

Strong arm, super athletic, leader, winner, all the mental intangibles. Imo, if he can get to 210

 

IMO...

 

His arm is mid, his athleticism pretty good but I would not call him "super athletic," and he really hasn't won anything... Alabama is a perennial 11 win team no matter who the QB is. 

 

And "if he can get to 210" is pointless in the offseason. Could he even play at 210? He's listed at 194, which is probably generous (weights are typically unreliable, and not often updated). Don't you question whether his athleticism -- which we already kind of disagree on -- would be impacted if he increased his body mass by 8% in three months? 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

IMO...

 

His arm is mid, his athleticism pretty good but I would not call him "super athletic," and he really hasn't won anything... Alabama is a perennial 11 win team no matter who the QB is. 

 

And "if he can get to 210" is pointless in the offseason. Could he even play at 210? He's listed at 194, which is probably generous (weights are typically unreliable, and not often updated). Don't you question whether his athleticism -- which we already kind of disagree on -- would be impacted if he increased his body mass by 8% in three months? 

 

How much athleticism can someone lose adding 20 pounds? 5 pounds alone is gonna be water weight anyway at the combine or if he's smart, he can choose not to weigh in and wait til his pro day to get extra time.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

How much athleticism can someone lose adding 20 pounds? 5 pounds alone is gonna be water weight anyway at the combine or if he's smart, he can choose not to weigh in and wait til his pro day to get extra time.

 

I'm asking your thoughts on the bolded. Do you think adding 15-20 pounds would have a noticeable impact on Bryce Young's level of athleticism? I personally think it would for sure, maybe you see it differently.

 

For me, it's not about where he weighs in. It's about what he can maintain, while still playing at a high level. I don't know the answers to those questions, but I don't think they're non factors. And I'm trying not to be dogmatic about it, but I don't think 6'0", 194 pounds will hold up in the NFL at QB...

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm asking your thoughts on the bolded. Do you think adding 15-20 pounds would have a noticeable impact on Bryce Young's level of athleticism? I personally think it would for sure, maybe you see it differently.

 

For me, it's not about where he weighs in. It's about what he can maintain, while still playing at a high level. I don't know the answers to those questions, but I don't think they're non factors. And I'm trying not to be dogmatic about it, but I don't think 6'0", 194 pounds will hold up in the NFL at QB...

 

194 pounds in the NFL is Doug Flutie small. I do think adding weight will help him survive hits more then impact his athleticism. Kyler can get away with it because he's just uber fast at getting away from defenders. Bryce has good speed, but not get away from defenders speed. JMO