Joe Thomas Jr.

[mahagga73]

The similarities are eery between what happened after the 72 season and now.Irsay Sr. hired Joe Thomas as soon as he got the team and boy did he clean house.First it was Unitas,who was about done,to the Chargers.The fans were irate.Then it was Matte,and the rest of the aging veterans on the team.They then drafted Bert Jones high in the draft.Got Lydell Mitchell,and a lot of other pretty good young players(Carr,Doughty,Kunz,etc.).They stunk for a couple years but eventually they won 3 straight divisions.Unfortunately that was the era where th AFC was awesome with the Steel Curtain and the Raiders of Stabler,etc.Then Jones started getting hurt and they spiraled into oblivion and the result was the Baltimore fans stopped showing up and they moved to Indy.The Unitas Jones and now probably Manning Luck connections as well as the dismantling of the team are eerily similar.

[Ufansince65]

The similarities are eery between what happened after the 72 season and now.Irsay Sr. hired Joe Thomas as soon as he got the team and boy did he clean house.First it was Unitas,who was about done,to the Chargers.The fans were irate.Then it was Matte,and the rest of the aging veterans on the team.They then drafted Bert Jones high in the draft.Got Lydell Mitchell,and a lot of other pretty good young players(Carr,Doughty,Kunz,etc.).They stunk for a couple years but eventually they won 3 straight divisions.Unfortunately that was the era where th AFC was awesome with the Steel Curtain and the Raiders of Stabler,etc.Then Jones started getting hurt and they spiraled into oblivion and the result was the Baltimore fans stopped showing up and they moved to Indy.The Unitas Jones and now probably Manning Luck connections as well as the dismantling of the team are eerily similar.

Correct. I hope he's Joe Thomas Jr., with one difference: Joe was arrogant and obnoxious. He wanted to fire Ted Marchibroda and the team revolted.

Robert Irsay made the wrong call and fired Thomas instead. Thomas had not completed rebuilding the team yet. The linebackers were average and the secondary consisted mostly ( except for Bruce Laird ) of castoffs like Lloyd Mumphord. That's why they lost in the playoffs to passing teams like Pittsburgh and Oakland.

In case you missed it, I referred Colts fans to an old SI article about Joe's 'rampage' through the roster in January 1973: Just Google '11 Days That Shook The Colts'. Boy I hope Grigson finds a team that wants to overpay for Freeney. I'm expecting a 3rd round pick, but maybe a contender desperate for a pass rusher like Atlanta will give us a 2nd. Speaking of eerie QB connections, how about Elway Schleister? Brrrrrrr.....

[Coltsman1788]

The similarities are eery between what happened after the 72 season and now.Irsay Sr. hired Joe Thomas as soon as he got the team and boy did he clean house.First it was Unitas,who was about done,to the Chargers.The fans were irate.Then it was Matte,and the rest of the aging veterans on the team.They then drafted Bert Jones high in the draft.Got Lydell Mitchell,and a lot of other pretty good young players(Carr,Doughty,Kunz,etc.).They stunk for a couple years but eventually they won 3 straight divisions.Unfortunately that was the era where th AFC was awesome with the Steel Curtain and the Raiders of Stabler,etc.Then Jones started getting hurt and they spiraled into oblivion and the result was the Baltimore fans stopped showing up and they moved to Indy.The Unitas Jones and now probably Manning Luck connections as well as the dismantling of the team are eerily similar.

Preach. Manning was the Indy Unitas. Now here comes Luck...could he be the Indy Bert Jones aka Indiana Jones? To this day, my best friend who is also a Colts fans will tell you up and down that Bert Jones was the best Colts quarterback he's ever watched play. He became a Colts fan in the mid to late 70's so never saw Unitas. Bert was Elway before Elway was Elway. If Luck plays as well as Bert did then that would be great just so long as he has a much longer career! If Bert Jones never got hurt I believe the Colts never would have left Baltimore.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Ehhh...okay. I hear a little bit of that.

But the logical process of that comparison should then compare the two cities, Baltimore and Indianapolis and their respective fans, right?

But the problem with the comparison's assumptions is that they imply that the reason the Colts left is because the fans stopped showing up (and all of the assumed impact thereof).

Incorrect.

Robert Irsay left with his franchise because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That forced Irsay to leave. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

That...and not the fans...not the attendance....not the stadium is what provoked Robert Irsay to leave.

http://en.wikipedia....to_Indianapolis

[mahagga73]

Ehhh...okay. I hear a little bit of that.

But the logical process of that comparison should then compare the two cities, Baltimore and Indianapolis and their respective fans, right?

But the problem with the assumption is that the conclusion implies that the reason the Colts left is because the fans stopped showing up (and all of the assumed impact thereof).

Incorrect.

Robert Irsay left with his franchise because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That forced Irsay to leave. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

That...and not the fans...not the attendance....not the stadium is what provoked Robert Irsay to leave.

http://en.wikipedia....to_Indianapolis

that's a little simplistic,and never quote wiikepedia as a reliable source.The lack of attendance had a lot to do with Irsay becoming disillusioned in Baltimore,as well as the stadium issue.They were treated like second class citizens to the Orioles.

[mahagga73]

Correct. I hope he's Joe Thomas Jr., with one difference: Joe was arrogant and obnoxious. He wanted to fire Ted Marchibroda and the team revolted.

Robert Irsay made the wrong call and fired Thomas instead. Thomas had not completed rebuilding the team yet. The linebackers were average and the secondary consisted mostly ( except for Bruce Laird ) of castoffs like Lloyd Mumphord. That's why they lost in the playoffs to passing teams like Pittsburgh and Oakland.

In case you missed it, I referred Colts fans to an old SI article about Joe's 'rampage' through the roster in January 1973: Just Google '11 Days That Shook The Colts'. Boy I hope Grigson finds a team that wants to overpay for Freeney. I'm expecting a 3rd round pick, but maybe a contender desperate for a pass rusher like Atlanta will give us a 2nd. Speaking of eerie QB connections, how about Elway Schleister? Brrrrrrr.....

I remember reading that article,read it again.Let's hope success comes as quickly and lasts longer than those three years of 75 76 and 77.

[DarkHorseColts]

In case you missed it, I referred Colts fans to an old SI article about Joe's 'rampage' through the roster in January 1973: Just Google '11 Days That Shook The Colts'.

That was a pretty good read.

Here's the link if anyone else cares to check it out:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1087030/index.htm

The one line that stood out the most to me was, "A team mushrooms together, wins together and fades together."

It is time to plant anew.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

that's a little simplistic

The truth usually is quite simple.

,and never quote wiikepedia as a reliable source.

I am the individual who made those entries on the Indianapolis Colts wikipedia page. As you can see, all of the information there has been thoroughly researched and sourced.

The lack of attendance had a lot to do with Irsay becoming disillusioned in Baltimore,as well as the stadium issue.They were treated like second class citizens to the Orioles.

The lack of attendance (as you imply being the result of poor play) had NOTHING to do with Mr. Irsay's decision to leave Baltimore. Mr. Irsay made clear on several occasions that his concerns rested with the lack of public funding for stadium upgrades (something he was promised by City officials before trading the Rams franchise to Carol Rosenbloom in exchange for the Colts franchise) or for a completely new stadium. Nevertheless as stated before, Mr. Irsay left the city of Baltimore when he did and in the fashion that he did because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That alone forced Irsay to depart. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

The issues and concerns leading up to City and State officials making such a foolish error in judgement are also well documented and sourced in the same wikipedia page.

[jemack]

Preach. Manning was the Indy Unitas. Now here comes Luck...could he be the Indy Bert Jones aka Indiana Jones? To this day, my best friend who is also a Colts fans will tell you up and down that Bert Jones was the best Colts quarterback he's ever watched play. He became a Colts fan in the mid to late 70's so never saw Unitas. Bert was Elway before Elway was Elway. If Luck plays as well as Bert did then that would be great just so long as he has a much longer career! If Bert Jones never got hurt I believe the Colts never would have left Baltimore.

Jones was burning bridges with Irsay, teammates and fans long before the trade to LA. JI IS doing what his dad did in '73, stripping the team of any locker room leaders (at least on offense). Now, let's hope we don't have to wait another 36 yrs to sniff a Super Bowl

[mahagga73]

The truth usually is quite simple.

I am the individual who made those entries on the Indianapolis Colts wikipedia page. As you can see, all of the information there has been thoroughly researched and sourced.

The lack of attendance (as you imply being the result of poor play) had NOTHING to do with Mr. Irsay's decision to leave Baltimore. Mr. Irsay made clear on several occasions that his concerns rested with the lack of public funding for stadium upgrades (something he was promised by City officials before trading the Rams franchise to Carol Rosenbloom in exchange for the Colts franchise) or for a completely new stadium. Nevertheless as stated before, Mr. Irsay left the city of Baltimore when he did and in the fashion that he did because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That alone forced Irsay to depart. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

The issues and concerns leading up to City and State officials making such a foolish error in judgement are also well documented and sourced in the same wikipedia page.

I never said it was the reason but it had something to do with it,get a life dude.

[mahagga73]

Jones was burning bridges with Irsay, teammates and fans long before the trade to LA. JI IS doing what his dad did in '73, stripping the team of any locker room leaders (at least on offense). Now, let's hope we don't have to wait another 36 yrs to sniff a Super Bowl

I have to admit,I have never heard this one,Bert Jones did this?Not calling you out ,please explain.

[mahagga73]

The truth usually is quite simple.

I am the individual who made those entries on the Indianapolis Colts wikipedia page. As you can see, all of the information there has been thoroughly researched and sourced.

The lack of attendance (as you imply being the result of poor play) had NOTHING to do with Mr. Irsay's decision to leave Baltimore. Mr. Irsay made clear on several occasions that his concerns rested with the lack of public funding for stadium upgrades (something he was promised by City officials before trading the Rams franchise to Carol Rosenbloom in exchange for the Colts franchise) or for a completely new stadium. Nevertheless as stated before, Mr. Irsay left the city of Baltimore when he did and in the fashion that he did because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That alone forced Irsay to depart. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

The issues and concerns leading up to City and State officials making such a foolish error in judgement are also well documented and sourced in the same wikipedia page.

lack of attendance had everything to do with poor play.Irsay was leaving before that eminent domain deal anyway,they refused a new stadium for years and did not deliver because the Colt's were now second fiddle to the O's.I am sure the fact that Irsay had a waiting sellout for years had at least some appeal to him.Never said it was the reason,just one reason they had to eventually leave.The Stadium issue was the main reason,and that stupid attempt to take his team was the final nail in a long line of events that lead to the departure.The City of Baltimore and the other reasons cited,Irsay relationship with the city and the fans,all had some impact on the situation.But it was the stadium issue that was first and foremost.

[jemack]

I have to admit,I have never heard this one,Bert Jones did this?Not calling you out ,please explain.

"It's too bad we don't have an owner that act normal all the time", He didn't live or was a part of the Baltimore community, which irked local fans. Not to mention 3- 1 and dones. Accusations of racial remark by teammates.

[mahagga73]

"It's too bad we don't have an owner that act normal all the time", He didn't live or was a part of the Baltimore community, which irked local fans. Not to mention 3- 1 and dones. Accusations of racial remark by teammates.

huh,interesting.In his defense they were beaten by 3 teams that were better than them.The Steelers were possibly the best team that ever played,and the Raiders were awful good.The Colt's were a good team but benefited by a bad division,after the Dolphins dynasty fell apart.

[MAC]

The truth usually is quite simple.

I am the individual who made those entries on the Indianapolis Colts wikipedia page. As you can see, all of the information there has been thoroughly researched and sourced.

The lack of attendance (as you imply being the result of poor play) had NOTHING to do with Mr. Irsay's decision to leave Baltimore. Mr. Irsay made clear on several occasions that his concerns rested with the lack of public funding for stadium upgrades (something he was promised by City officials before trading the Rams franchise to Carol Rosenbloom in exchange for the Colts franchise) or for a completely new stadium. Nevertheless as stated before, Mr. Irsay left the city of Baltimore when he did and in the fashion that he did because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That alone forced Irsay to depart. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

The issues and concerns leading up to City and State officials making such a foolish error in judgement are also well documented and sourced in the same wikipedia page.

Somehow the stadium wasn't a big problem when the team was winning, however. If it was full, Irsay's pockets would have also been full, AND the city would have been more interested in putting in a new stadium. And any suggestions of broken promises should take into consideration the fact that Irsay was pushing and threatening (forcing the eminent domain legislation out of necessity) during a time when a recession and soaring interest rates had made borrowing money more difficult, and paying it off absurdly more expensive. Irsay should have been more patient and less confrontational. He was an irrational drunk, not a reasonable business man,and I don't blame the city for treating him as they did.

Is any of that referenced in your Wikipedia page? I've never spoken to one of it's posters before. It's a fantastically convenient resource - taking advantage of the fact that everyone knows a little bit about something, and if they share it we are all better off - but it has obvious limitations. Such as the utter lack of fact checking, and the inevitable influence of personal opinion being introduced by those motivated enough to write on a topic in the first place. I'm sure that you've done your research, and that you have the best intentions, but it doesn't mean that your posts there are 100% accurate, any more than one should assume that my posts here are 100% accurate.

[jemack]

huh,interesting.In his defense they were beaten by 3 teams that were better than them.The Steelers were possibly the best team that ever played,and the Raiders were awful good.The Colt's were a good team but benefited by a bad division,after the Dolphins dynasty fell apart.

Raiders were the wild card and as far as the fan base goes, they lost at home to a wild card team. Kind of like '10.

[mahagga73]

Raiders were the wild card and as far as the fan base goes, they lost at home to a wild card team. Kind of like '10.

true.The Colt's defense was strong up front and a sieve on the backend.They probably weren't Superbowl material

[jemack]

true.The Colt's defense was strong up front and a sieve on the backend.They probably weren't Superbowl material

The Broncos would have been tough, but it would have been played in Baltimore, I believe.

[MAC]

true.The Colt's defense was strong up front and a sieve on the backend.They probably weren't Superbowl material

The Broncos would have been tough, but it would have been played in Baltimore, I believe.

I had to look to refresh my memory. The Colts lost to the eventual SB winner in 75, and to the defending SB winner in 76 and 77. The Colts, the Steelers, and the Raiders all made the playoffs all three years (along with the Bengals, Patriots and Broncos - once each). Not all that different from the Colts in 03, 04, and 05. The Colts just weren't quite ready, and matched up about as well with the Steelers as they did with the Patriots more recently. It's a pity that things fell apart in 06 instead of progressing as they did in the Manning years.

[jemack]

I had to look to refresh my memory. The Colts lost to the eventual SB winner in 75, and to the defending SB winner in 76 and 77. The Colts, the Steelers, and the Raiders all made the playoffs all three years (along with the Bengals, Patriots and Broncos - once each). Not all that different from the Colts in 03, 04, and 05. The Colts just weren't quite ready, and matched up about as well with the Steelers as they did with the Patriots more recently. It's a pity that things fell apart in 06 instead of progressing as they did in the Manning years.

The Orange Crush squashed the Raiders (Who beat the Colts) in the AFC Champ game, only to lose to the Cowboys

[basketballsteve]

The similarities are eery between what happened after the 72 season and now.Irsay Sr. hired Joe Thomas as soon as he got the team and boy did he clean house.First it was Unitas,who was about done,to the Chargers.The fans were irate.Then it was Matte,and the rest of the aging veterans on the team.They then drafted Bert Jones high in the draft.Got Lydell Mitchell,and a lot of other pretty good young players(Carr,Doughty,Kunz,etc.).They stunk for a couple years but eventually they won 3 straight divisions.Unfortunately that was the era where th AFC was awesome with the Steel Curtain and the Raiders of Stabler,etc.Then Jones started getting hurt and they spiraled into oblivion and the result was the Baltimore fans stopped showing up and they moved to Indy.The Unitas Jones and now probably Manning Luck connections as well as the dismantling of the team are eerily similar.

When Mr. Thomas was finished with the Colts he went to the Niners and one of the first things he did (besides housecleaning the roster) was get rid of film and other reminders of the "old" Niners whom he considered losers. John Brodie is on the record regarding what the old Niner players thought of Mr. Thomas who attempted to eradicate some of the history of those early SF teams (not great teams but many great players). Let's hope Mr. Grigson has more sense and class, Thomas had none.

[MAC]

The Orange Crush squashed the Raiders (Who beat the Colts) in the AFC Champ game, only to lose to the Cowboys

It sounds better my way. The Colts were clearly flawed (much like the Manning Colts that I compared them too), but virtually every key player had to be 24-28. There was every reason to expect the Colts to improve for the next several years. I'm not sure if the collapse was entirely due to Jone's injury, or also to losing the insane GM Joe Thomas. I couldn't stand the man, but he sure knew talent.

[Fatboyslim11]

I'm surprised we have so many long time Colts fans that remember that era. We did have good talent during that time but the Ghost To The Post broke our hearts.

[jemack]

It sounds better my way. The Colts were clearly flawed (much like the Manning Colts that I compared them too), but virtually every key player had to be 24-28. There was every reason to expect the Colts to improve for the next several years. I'm not sure if the collapse was entirely due to Jone's injury, or also to losing the insane GM Joe Thomas. I couldn't stand the man, but he sure knew talent.

They couldn't run or stop the run (familiar) Marv Hubbard was a beast and Marchabroda used Mitchell sparingly, thinking the bigger back Thomas was better suited for Oakland's front 7.

[MAC]

They couldn't run or stop the run (familiar) Marv Hubbard was a beast and Marchabroda used Mitchell sparingly, thinking the bigger back Thomas was better suited for Oakland's front 7.

I don't remember that, but I certainly remember that the offense was typically based on screen passes to Mitchell. Anything to get the ball in his hands in space. When you willingly give that up (instead of waiting for the other team to take it away) than you deserve to lose. I love Ted, but maybe Thomas was right to want to fire him. Pretty ironic if you think about it.

[jemack]

Yeah, Marchabroda for McCormick..... Brilliant

[HarassedOffTheSite]

...get a life dude.

I have one thank you. And it involves knowing what I am talking about.

lack of attendance had everything to do with poor play. Irsay was leaving before that eminent domain deal

Sorry but you are incorrect. Robert Irsay was leveraging the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland to come through on their promise to either upgrade Memorial Stadium or build a completely new one. Any and every good businessman would have done the same. General attendance was not an immediate issue (that is one of the easiest fixes if you know what you're doing). Revenue through luxury suites, parking and concession were the overarching problems Robert Irsay wanted addressed and he put forward multiple proposals to do so.

...anyway,they refused a new stadium for years and did not deliver because the Colt's were now second fiddle to the O's.

That is also incorrect. Both the Orioles and the Colts ownership were willing to share a stadium. Fixing O problems was indirectly fixing Colts problems. If anything, Robert Irsay was more amenable than the Orioles' owner Jerrold Hoffberger. Irsay said "It's not a matter of saying that there will be no stadium. It's a matter of getting the facts together so everybody is happy when they build the stadium. I'm a patient man. I think the people of Baltimore are going to see those new stadiums in New Orleans and Seattle opening in a year or two around the country, and they are going to realize they need a stadium ... for conventions and other things besides football." Irsay was absolutely correct. It is clear that he was prepared to give the "politicians" in Baltimore and Maryland time. The Orioles owner on the other hand was not. He said "I will bow to the will of the people. They have told us what they want to tell us. First, they don't want a new park and second, they don't want a club." and in short order he sold the team to a new owner than put the city on notice that they had a trial year before he decided to leave.

I am sure the fact that Irsay had a waiting sellout for years had at least some appeal to him.

Of course it had appeal. But all that served as for Irsay was leverage against Baltimore and finally an out if all else failed. Nobody can fault Robert Irsay in any way for that. If anything it should be recognized as good business. Possible stadium sellouts in other cities probably had more to do with the foolish, incompetent overreach committed by the dimwitted turd politicians in Baltimore and Maryland. They were up to that point unwilling to deliver (something they immediately did after the Colts left)...and they knew other cities were.

I Never said it was the reason, just one reason they had to eventually leave.The Stadium issue was the main reason, and that stupid attempt to take his team was the final nail in a long line of events that lead to the departure.The City of Baltimore and the other reasons cited, Irsay relationship with the city and the fans, all had some impact on the situation. But it was the stadium issue that was first and foremost.

You kind of meandered there. Some correct and some not. The "general attendance" at games was not a driving factor. Not an immediate one that somehow forced Robert Irsay's hand. Future revenue from other areas (that I pointed out) was not even a driving factor in his departure. It was a driving factor in negotiations. But the eminent domain legislation (first suggested to the Maryland Governor by an aid to the then Baltimore Mayor) was the as you say "first and foremost" reason Robert Irsay had to leave the state of Maryland. All else is subordinate to that reality.

As far as the notion (many put forward) that Irsay came in and magically had a bad relationship with the local media, implying some fault on the part of Irsay is also incorrect. One of the reason's Carol Rosenbloom cited for trading the team was the poor relationship the local press had with him. Now granted Robert Irsay did not endear himself to the local media. But he was a good businessman. And he approached the whole problem from the standpoint of business. Including getting rid of Johnny Unitas. The press in Baltimore (much like Indy's local media during the Polian regime) was clueless and served as an agitating force for Baltimore's citizens more than a conduit of information to them.

Bottomline: the departure of the Colts rests squarely with the then Baltimore Mayor William Schaefer. The then Governor of Maryland Harry Hughes. And I believe more importantly than both, Baltimore's city comptroller Hyman Pressman who placed an amendment to Baltimore's city charter on the fall 1974 ballot (Question P), that amendment called for declaring "the 33rd Street stadium (Memorial Stadium) as a memorial to war veterans and it also prohibited the use of city funds for construction of any other stadium". This amendment passed by the citizens of Baltimore prevented any of the politicians involved from building any new stadiums for either the Colts or Orioles. And immediately after the Colts left, the amendment was overturned with a 62% vote. And Baltimore then constructed Orioles Park at Camden Yards and M &T bank Stadium.

Had they simply done that from the beginning, the Colts would still be in Baltimore.

[Mameluc]

well i wasnt alive on that era, but heck im gonna be patient. The colts have earned it.

[atapcl]

The truth usually is quite simple.

I am the individual who made those entries on the Indianapolis Colts wikipedia page. As you can see, all of the information there has been thoroughly researched and sourced.

The lack of attendance (as you imply being the result of poor play) had NOTHING to do with Mr. Irsay's decision to leave Baltimore. Mr. Irsay made clear on several occasions that his concerns rested with the lack of public funding for stadium upgrades (something he was promised by City officials before trading the Rams franchise to Carol Rosenbloom in exchange for the Colts franchise) or for a completely new stadium. Nevertheless as stated before, Mr. Irsay left the city of Baltimore when he did and in the fashion that he did because one chamber of the Maryland Legislature voted to use eminent domain laws to take the franchise away from him. That alone forced Irsay to depart. Had he waited around for the second chamber to vote for the legislation and for the governor to sign (which both subsequently did) he would have no long had control over his property.

The issues and concerns leading up to City and State officials making such a foolish error in judgement are also well documented and sourced in the same wikipedia page.

I am not sure but that was the reason I remembered as well. I am from SC and would go to see the Colts play 3 times a year. We needed a new stadium though because my last time in Memorial I got splinters in my posterior sitting on wooden seats.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I am not sure but that was the reason I remembered...

I've pretty much responded in detail. Anything more from me would be going over the same terrain. Y'all have at it.

[oldunclemark]

Preach. Manning was the Indy Unitas. Now here comes Luck...could he be the Indy Bert Jones aka Indiana Jones? To this day, my best friend who is also a Colts fans will tell you up and down that Bert Jones was the best Colts quarterback he's ever watched play. He became a Colts fan in the mid to late 70's so never saw Unitas. Bert was Elway before Elway was Elway. If Luck plays as well as Bert did then that would be great just so long as he has a much longer career! If Bert Jones never got hurt I believe the Colts never would have left Baltimore.

I would accept Luck being as good as Bert Jones...and it truth..Luck's style is more Elway than Manning..

..but I'm just concerned that he is somewhat shy and laid back...and he will face a scrutiny the likes of which no one has ever seen.

There's going to be 6 cameras at the airport the day he gets here.

the big unknown is whether he can handle his every move being broadcast nation-wise and questioned every day.

He seems quiet and meek.

[Portage Coltfans]

The similarities are eery between what happened after the 72 season and now.Irsay Sr. hired Joe Thomas as soon as he got the team and boy did he clean house.First it was Unitas,who was about done,to the Chargers.The fans were irate.Then it was Matte,and the rest of the aging veterans on the team.They then drafted Bert Jones high in the draft.Got Lydell Mitchell,and a lot of other pretty good young players(Carr,Doughty,Kunz,etc.).They stunk for a couple years but eventually they won 3 straight divisions.Unfortunately that was the era where th AFC was awesome with the Steel Curtain and the Raiders of Stabler,etc.Then Jones started getting hurt and they spiraled into oblivion and the result was the Baltimore fans stopped showing up and they moved to Indy.The Unitas Jones and now probably Manning Luck connections as well as the dismantling of the team are eerily similar.

hopefully the texans aren't equivalent to the steel curtain