Possible trade up mock on draft day, would love opinions on it.

[Yoshinator]

The most likely scenario is that we are going to enter the 2018 NFL Draft with the 9 picks that we currently have. When the draft starts though and it comes to our 6th overall pick, anything goes. I have an interesting scenario where we could get a couple top players and still have a good draft. Let me know if you think Ballard might get frisky and pull the trigger.

Round 1:

6.) Bradley Chubb DE

10.) Trade: Colts trade picks 36, 37, and 104 to the Raiders for pick 10 and select Roquan Smith ILB

Round 2:

49.) Braden Smith OG

Round 3:

67.) Brian O' Neill OT

Round 4:

No picks

Round 5:

140.) Kalen Ballage RB

Round 6:

178.) Allen Lazard WR

Round 7:

221.) Mike McCray OLB

 

This draft would only have 7 picks, but we would get the two elite defensive players that fit the 4-3 defense we are building, we fix the offensive line, and get some nice depth players that should all make an impact at weak positions. Would you be happy if Ballard made that trade and drafted this way or close to it (including the first two picks)? I think something similar could happen on draft day, although I'm taking it to the extreme. Let me know in the comments below!

 

[ColtsBlitz]

I’m not a big trade-up guy, but I’d rather have Edmunds there at 10. It would however add two great defensive studs to a defense that needs it. 

 

If Smith or Edmunds are there, it would take more I think to trade up. The Raiders need a LB and will be trading out of the first round where one will be. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlitz said:

I’m not a big trade-up guy, but I’d rather have Edmunds there at 10. It would however add two great defensive studs to a defense that needs it. 

 

If Smith or Edmunds are there, it would take more I think to trade up. The Raiders need a LB and will be trading out of the first round where one will be. 

I could do a 3rd instead of a 4th for a definite trade up. I don't think Ballard would lose a trade though just to get one player. This trade allows us to fill needs and get a normal draft the rest of the way. Not sure if the Raiders would do the trade, but 10th seemed like the "sweet spot". 9th would cost too much, and as you said, Roquan Smith could easily be gone at 11.

[Boiler_Colt]

Would love it but no way in heck Oakland trades from 10 to out of the first round entirely without future #1's involved.

[Gigc]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The most likely scenario is that we are going to enter the 2018 NFL Draft with the 9 picks that we currently have. When the draft starts though and it comes to our 6th overall pick, anything goes. I have an interesting scenario where we could get a couple top players and still have a good draft. Let me know if you think Ballard might get frisky and pull the trigger.

Round 1:

6.) Bradley Chubb DE

10.) Trade: Colts trade picks 36, 37, and 104 to the Raiders for pick 10 and select Roquan Smith ILB

Round 2:

49.) Braden Smith OG

Round 3:

67.) Brian O' Neill OT

Round 4:

No picks

Round 5:

140.) Kalen Ballage RB

Round 6:

178.) Allen Lazard WR

Round 7:

221.) Mike McCray OLB

 

This draft would only have 7 picks, but we would get the two elite defensive players that fit the 4-3 defense we are building, we fix the offensive line, and get some nice depth players that should all make an impact at weak positions. Would you be happy if Ballard made that trade and drafted this way or close to it (including the first two picks)? I think something similar could happen on draft day, although I'm taking it to the extreme. Let me know in the comments below!

 

why does Oakland want to trade up to 6? who's the player they would be after? I'm reading they like Roquan Smith

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Gigc said:

why does Oakland want to trade up to 6? who's the player they would be after? I'm reading they like Roquan Smith

You misunderstood the mock. We are trading them picks 36, 37, and 104 to move up to 10 to take Roquan Smith. The point of this "bold" mock was to do a big trade up to get BOTH Bradley Chubb and Roquan Smith for the new 4-3 defense. Oakland is trading down in this scenario, not up. The whole point of trading up with them at exactly 10 is to get Roquan Smith since they would take him at 10.

[DaColts85]

Why would you think the Raiders trade #10 and a blue chip player for 2 second round picks and a 4th?  That sounds highly unlikely, and borderline terrible for the start of the Gruden era.  A future 1st would almost be a must and maybe we keep a 2nd...not sure on that but Raiders have 0 incentive in your scenario.

[mad dog curtis]

no way theywant a linebacker i look for a lot of trading on drat night   if we dont get chubb we will be moving back

[CopenhagenColt]

Honestly, I think that would be complete madness.

Roquan is an exciting prospect, but it's just way to expensive when it's likely that we could grab either Vander Esch or Rashaan Evans in the second round.

[crazycolt1]

23 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The most likely scenario is that we are going to enter the 2018 NFL Draft with the 9 picks that we currently have. When the draft starts though and it comes to our 6th overall pick, anything goes. I have an interesting scenario where we could get a couple top players and still have a good draft. Let me know if you think Ballard might get frisky and pull the trigger.

Round 1:

6.) Bradley Chubb DE

10.) Trade: Colts trade picks 36, 37, and 104 to the Raiders for pick 10 and select Roquan Smith ILB

Round 2:

49.) Braden Smith OG

Round 3:

67.) Brian O' Neill OT

Round 4:

No picks

Round 5:

140.) Kalen Ballage RB

Round 6:

178.) Allen Lazard WR

Round 7:

221.) Mike McCray OLB

 

This draft would only have 7 picks, but we would get the two elite defensive players that fit the 4-3 defense we are building, we fix the offensive line, and get some nice depth players that should all make an impact at weak positions. Would you be happy if Ballard made that trade and drafted this way or close to it (including the first two picks)? I think something similar could happen on draft day, although I'm taking it to the extreme. Let me know in the comments below!

 

Now why would Oakland trade out of the 10 spot without a 1st round pick coming back to them?

We are in more need of extra players than the Raider are.

It is always more expensive to move up than move down and we cant afford it at this time.

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, mad dog curtis said:

no way theywant a linebacker i look for a lot of trading on drat night   if we dont get chubb we will be moving back

That is something no one will know till we are on the clock draft day. If there is a player that Ballard want's at pick 6 he will take him. IMO Chubb will not be there at #6 and it will not effect what Ballard does.

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Why would you think the Raiders trade #10 and a blue chip player for 2 second round picks and a 4th?  That sounds highly unlikely, and borderline terrible for the start of the Gruden era.  A future 1st would almost be a must and maybe we keep a 2nd...not sure on that but Raiders have 0 incentive in your scenario.

I don't think Ballard would trade 2 second round and a fourth for the 10 spot anyway. The second round is where we will be getting our most combined impact players.

[Gigc]

22 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You misunderstood the mock. We are trading them picks 36, 37, and 104 to move up to 10 to take Roquan Smith. The point of this "bold" mock was to do a big trade up to get BOTH Bradley Chubb and Roquan Smith for the new 4-3 defense. Oakland is trading down in this scenario, not up. The whole point of trading up with them at exactly 10 is to get Roquan Smith since they would take him at 10.

yeah, i really misunderstood that. but now I'm even more confused about why the Raiders would do that. I just don't see that.

[Yoshinator]

Well, a lot of people don't like the trade. Oakland is still somewhat rebuilding, and they can get a linebacker with one of our early 2nds if we do the trade with them and have additional ammo to rebuild themselves. Gives Gruden picks to build the team in his image. We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't put it past Ballard to go after his guys. I think everyone is thinking he'll get extra picks, he may go the opposite and get his exact guys.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, a lot of people don't like the trade. Oakland is still somewhat rebuilding, and they can get a linebacker with one of our early 2nds if we do the trade with them and have additional ammo to rebuild themselves. Gives Gruden picks to build the team in his image. We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't put it past Ballard to go after his guys. I think everyone is thinking he'll get extra picks, he may go the opposite and get his exact guys.

The thing is no one knows who his guys are?  Not to be insulting but what makes you think you know who Ballard wants?  Because it's a couple of guys you might want does not mean it matches his and what he would be willing to do to get them.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, a lot of people don't like the trade. Oakland is still somewhat rebuilding, and they can get a linebacker with one of our early 2nds if we do the trade with them and have additional ammo to rebuild themselves. Gives Gruden picks to build the team in his image. We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't put it past Ballard to go after his guys. I think everyone is thinking he'll get extra picks, he may go the opposite and get his exact guys.

What you seem to think is John Gruden is the GM of the Raiders. He is not, he is the head coach.

Reggie McKenzie is the GM.  McKenzie was named 2016 Executive of the Year. He will be doing the drafting.

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is no one knows who his guys are?  Not to be insulting but what makes you think you know who Ballard wants?  Because it's a couple of guys you might want does not mean it matches his and what he would be willing to do to get them.

I know he likes Chubb and Roquan to fit the new 4-3 defense, and that's who he wants to build his new defense around. Odds are we only get one of them, but there's a reason why we are so interested in them, and that's because they fit our new scheme so well. This is a bold trade up, but Ballard could do it to get the two guys he wants to anchor the defense for 10+ years. The rest of the draft I don't know if those are guys he likes, but Chubb and Roquan I do for a fact. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you seem to think is John Gruden is the GM of the Raiders. He is not, he is the head coach.

Reggie McKenzie is the GM.  McKenzie was named 2016 Executive of the Year. He will be doing the drafting.

I know McKenzie is in charge, however, Gruden wouldn't take the job if he wasn't given some input on which guys he was able to get on his team from the draft. I guarantee he has a lot more power than you think. He even got rid of Marquette King because of personality issues, and I doubt that was McKenzie's decision.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you seem to think is John Gruden is the GM of the Raiders. He is not, he is the head coach.

Reggie McKenzie is the GM.  McKenzie was named 2016 Executive of the Year. He will be doing the drafting.

 

Ahhh....   uhhhh....   ehhhh....

 

If you think Jon Gruden won't have a big say in who the Raiders pick, I think your kidding yourself.

 

McKenzies job was rumored to be close to ending when Gruden got hired.   I don't know if Gruden was given control of the final 53 man roster, but at the very least, he's going to have a lot of input on every pick, every decision.   His $100 million dollar contract makes him the power player with McKenzie.  

 

Gruden is a Rock Star.   That's why the Raiders are on Monday Night football week one.   McKenzie does not have the power in this relationship..

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/18/2018 at 7:31 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

The most likely scenario is that we are going to enter the 2018 NFL Draft with the 9 picks that we currently have. When the draft starts though and it comes to our 6th overall pick, anything goes. I have an interesting scenario where we could get a couple top players and still have a good draft. Let me know if you think Ballard might get frisky and pull the trigger.

Round 1:

6.) Bradley Chubb DE

10.) Trade: Colts trade picks 36, 37, and 104 to the Raiders for pick 10 and select Roquan Smith ILB

Round 2:

49.) Braden Smith OG

Round 3:

67.) Brian O' Neill OT

Round 4:

No picks

Round 5:

140.) Kalen Ballage RB

Round 6:

178.) Allen Lazard WR

Round 7:

221.) Mike McCray OLB

 

This draft would only have 7 picks, but we would get the two elite defensive players that fit the 4-3 defense we are building, we fix the offensive line, and get some nice depth players that should all make an impact at weak positions. Would you be happy if Ballard made that trade and drafted this way or close to it (including the first two picks)? I think something similar could happen on draft day, although I'm taking it to the extreme. Let me know in the comments below!

 

 

First,  I should give you Mad Props for some seriously good outside-the-box thinking.     I personally don't do a good job of that,  and I appreicate it when I see it from others....    so,  my initial reaction is to say that's some creatively good thinking...

 

But there are a series of reasons why I don't think the proposal flies.    First, your hypothetical says two 2's and a 4.   I think you've figured out by now that the math does NOT work.    We'd have to offer two 2'd and a 3 to make it work.   Do you still think Ballard would want to do that?    Three Day Two picks for the 10th overall?     I don't see that happening.

 

As I've stated in other threads,  we are not one gerat player (Smith) away from being a great team.    We are a largue number of great players away.    Trading 3-for-1 is taking us in the opposite direction.

 

The other issues are these...    you might have to flip-flop Smith and O'Neil to make that work...   I think O'Neil might go before Smith.

 

Also....

 

In R5,  I hate Ballage.   Perhaps my least favorite RB.

 

And, while I like both your picks in R's 6 and 7,  I think both will likely be gone before the round you having us taking them.

 

So, ultimately,  I don't see this mock working out for the Colts.     Still, I appreicate the effort and thought behind it!

 

 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First,  I should give you Mad Props for some seriously good outside-the-box thinking.     I personally don't do a good job of that,  and I appreicate it when I see it from others....    so,  my initial reaction is to say that's some creatively good thinking...

 

But there are a series of reasons why I don't think the proposal flies.    First, your hypothetical says two 2's and a 4.   I think you've figured out by now that the math does work.    We'd have to offer two 2'd and a 3 to make it work.   Do you still think Ballard would want to do that?    Three Day Two picks for the 10th overall?     I don't see that happening.

 

As I've stated in other threads,  we are not one gerat player (Smith) away from being a great team.    We are a largue number of great players away.    Trading 3-for-1 is taking us in the opposite direction.

 

The other issues are these...    you might have to flip-flop Smith and O'Neil to make that work...   I think O'Neil might go before Smith.

 

Also....

 

In R5,  I hate Ballage.   Perhaps my least favorite RB.

 

And, while I like both your picks in R's 6 and 7,  I think both will likely be gone before the round you having us taking them.

 

So, ultimately,  I don't see this mock working out for the Colts.     Still, I appreicate the effort and thought behind it!

 

 

Appreciate the lengthy response NCF! Always like reading your posts because of their length. It's bold, and yes, we'd probably have to trade two 2nds and a 3rd. However, this is really the best we could offer, and I'd rely on Gruden having an itchy trigger finger to rebuild the team in his image with this trade. The 5th-7th round picks are very volatile, so those guys could definitely fall to those slots. We'll definitely be surprised at a handful of guys that fall late for one reason or another. I picked guys there at positions that were weak that I thought could make an impact and make the team. 

 

Just an idea thread. It'd be amazing if Ballard could snag both Chubb and Roquan.

[crazycolt1]

56 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ahhh....   uhhhh....   ehhhh....

 

If you think Jon Gruden won't have a big say in who the Raiders pick, I think your kidding yourself.

 

McKenzies job was rumored to be close to ending when Gruden got hired.   I don't know if Gruden was given control of the final 53 man roster, but at the very least, he's going to have a lot of input on every pick, every decision.   His $100 million dollar contract makes him the power player with McKenzie.  

 

Gruden is a Rock Star.   That's why the Raiders are on Monday Night football week one.   McKenzie does not have the power in this relationship..

 

McKenzie's job was not in jeopardy after being named executive of the year in 2016 after going 12-4. He had 7 pro bowl players that year.

Rumors are rumors. The Raiders would have been stupid to fire him when the team way under performed with Jack Del Rio as coach. He is the one who got fired.

All head coaches have input on every pick the teams make.

Till Gruden takes over the GM duties he is the head coach.

You may think Gruden is a rock star but he is going to come back to earth when the seasons starts.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know McKenzie is in charge, however, Gruden wouldn't take the job if he wasn't given some input on which guys he was able to get on his team from the draft. I guarantee he has a lot more power than you think. He even got rid of Marquette King because of personality issues, and I doubt that was McKenzie's decision.

Well if Gruden is going to be in charge of drafting and head coaching his rock star status is going to crash really fast. The Raiders will do no better than the Bucs did when he was there.

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well if Gruden is going to be in charge of drafting and head coaching his rock star status is going to crash really fast. The Raiders will do no better than the Bucs did when he was there.

We'll see. Belichick seems to be able to do both well, and Gruden is one of the few who can compare. I also wouldn't compare the Raiders now to the 2000s Bucs. They won a SB with Gruden. It may of been with Dungy's team, but Gruden still coached them to a SB win. If he crashes and burns, then it's on the Raiders. AS NCF said though, he has a $100 million dollar contract, so it'll be his team to crash and burn or lead to the promised land.

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

McKenzie's job was not in jeopardy after being named executive of the year in 2016 after going 12-4. He had 7 pro bowl players that year.

Rumors are rumors. The Raiders would have been stupid to fire him when the team way under performed with Jack Del Rio as coach. He is the one who got fired.

All head coaches have input on every pick the teams make.

Till Gruden takes over the GM duties he is the head coach.

You may think Gruden is a rock star but he is going to come back to earth when the seasons starts.

 

Fine....    don't take it from me....    how about the media stories surrounding the hire...

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/gruden-fold-who-responsible-roster-construction

 

Or this one....

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/happens-reggie-mckenzie-oakland-234625484.html

 

Or this one....

 

https://www.blackholebanter.com/how-would-jon-gruden-and-reggie-mckenzie-work-together/

 

Or this one....

 

https://justblogbaby.com/2018/03/24/reggie-mckenzie-is-drafting-for-his-future/

 

Now, lots of this is rumor...   and some is speculation...   and there are some facts involved here...   but there's lots and lots of smoke in Oakland.     And that typically means something.      The Raiders didn't give Gruden $100 Million to take a back seat to the GM --- any GM. 

 

I don't think you've followed the Raiders as closely as you seem to think.    The good will of McKenzie being the GM of the Year in 2016 appears to have disappated if not disappeared.    It sure looks like he's got one year to prove himself to Gruden and the owner.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

McKenzie's job was not in jeopardy after being named executive of the year in 2016 after going 12-4. He had 7 pro bowl players that year.

Rumors are rumors. The Raiders would have been stupid to fire him when the team way under performed with Jack Del Rio as coach. He is the one who got fired.

All head coaches have input on every pick the teams make.

Till Gruden takes over the GM duties he is the head coach.

You may think Gruden is a rock star but he is going to come back to earth when the seasons starts.

 

It's not that I think Jon Gruden is a rock star.    So does the National Football League and that's what matters.   So does the media that covers the NFL.

 

The Raiders were 6-10 last year and they have FOUR premium night telecasts with a national audience.   Now why do you think that is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ColtsGermany]

I think IF we trade up at some point it will be into the late 1st round to grab a OG/OT if we got chubb at 6.... 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's not that I think Jon Gruden is a rock star.    So does the National Football League and that's what matters.   So does the media that covers the NFL.

 

The Raiders were 6-10 last year and they have FOUR premium night telecasts with a national audience.   Now why do you think that is?

 

You can keep spitting into the wind and telling yourself that moisture hitting you is nothing but rain...    but that doesn't make it so...

 

 

 

 

 

 

We shall see.

For one thing Mark Davis IMO was a fool to sign Gruden to the deal he did.

Gruden is going to have to show he did learn a couple of things with his time away from coaching. I don't know how much input he had in the drafting process in Tampa Bay but he is going to have to do a better job that what went on there. Lets hope he also learned how to treat the players as men and not lie or be two faced as many players who have played for him has stated.

Will he run Carr out of town like he has every QB that has ever played for him?

Will he put of his "Chucky" mask more often every time a camera gets close to him?

IMO the Raiders signing Gruden was more about putting fans in the seats and getting the attention of signing him from the media.

I do wish the Raiders well but I don't think Gruden was the answer. It might shine like a new silver dollar at first but in the long run it will end up being a copper penny. The expectations are too high for any coach to endure in the long run.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We'll see. Belichick seems to be able to do both well, and Gruden is one of the few who can compare. I also wouldn't compare the Raiders now to the 2000s Bucs. They won a SB with Gruden. It may of been with Dungy's team, but Gruden still coached them to a SB win. If he crashes and burns, then it's on the Raiders. AS NCF said though, he has a $100 million dollar contract, so it'll be his team to crash and burn or lead to the promised land.

IMO they will crash and burn. If Gruden hasn't learned the things a head coach has to know about working with people his coaching ability will not be the issue.

You putting Gruden's name with Belichick's as a comparison is a massive and colossal stretch.

[Finball]

7 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well, a lot of people don't like the trade. Oakland is still somewhat rebuilding, and they can get a linebacker with one of our early 2nds if we do the trade with them and have additional ammo to rebuild themselves. Gives Gruden picks to build the team in his image. We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't put it past Ballard to go after his guys. I think everyone is thinking he'll get extra picks, he may go the opposite and get his exact guys.

 

Getting an extra second and 4th is pretty bad value for dropping from top 10 to early second. Getting more picks for a rebuilding team makes sene but giving up a top 10 pick for couple of 2nds and a 4th is not what rebuilding or any team should do. It's pretty unprecented in terms of recent NFL history too.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

On 4/18/2018 at 10:31 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

The most likely scenario is that we are going to enter the 2018 NFL Draft with the 9 picks that we currently have. When the draft starts though and it comes to our 6th overall pick, anything goes. I have an interesting scenario where we could get a couple top players and still have a good draft. Let me know if you think Ballard might get frisky and pull the trigger.

Round 1:

6.) Bradley Chubb DE

10.) Trade: Colts trade picks 36, 37, and 104 to the Raiders for pick 10 and select Roquan Smith ILB

Round 2:

49.) Braden Smith OG

Round 3:

67.) Brian O' Neill OT

Round 4:

No picks

Round 5:

140.) Kalen Ballage RB

Round 6:

178.) Allen Lazard WR

Round 7:

221.) Mike McCray OLB

 

This draft would only have 7 picks, but we would get the two elite defensive players that fit the 4-3 defense we are building, we fix the offensive line, and get some nice depth players that should all make an impact at weak positions. Would you be happy if Ballard made that trade and drafted this way or close to it (including the first two picks)? I think something similar could happen on draft day, although I'm taking it to the extreme. Let me know in the comments below!

 

No team in their right mind makes that trade.... to get back up that far it’s going to take way more than 2 seconds and a fourth... it would take our first next year...