Spending a top-20 pick on a RB is one of the worst decisions a team can make

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

I knew exactly what you were doing. Don't worry. No need to show your hand before it's played out. You were setting him up Chubb to fail against a standard that everybody considers elite, but you for some reason don't.

 

I don't think Chubb runs 4.74. I think he will be closer to 4.8. To me his explosiveness and agility numbers will be much more important than his 40. I will also be looking at his 10 yard split for quickness.  

Watch, he will test very close to Thomas..If I am wrong feel free to tell me you were right after combine..

[PrincetonTiger]

Find My Happy Place Find My Happy Place

 

   Is it 1 CST yet

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Watch, he will test very close to Thomas..If I am wrong feel free to tell me you were right after combine..

If he tests close to Solomon Thomas you can forget about us trading back and you can forget about Barkley IMO. If he is there at 3, Ballard will run to the podium himself with the pick. But IMO if he tests as athletic as Thomas I cannot see how he drops to us. Unless both Cleveland and the Giants absolutely love the QBs at 1 and 2. 

[jshipp23]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Cam Jordan and Ryan Kerrigan type of player is MUCH more valuable in the league than Barkley. If I knew Chubb will be this type of player, I draft him without much hesitation. 

I agree man usually..I just think Barkley is that good, and value him higher than any RB in last 10 years..I don't want to pass on him for Chubb just my opinion..Now if we pick up a couple seconds in a trade back to pass on Barkley and still get Chubb, Nelson, or Fitzpatrick I'm on board with that..

[stitches]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

I agree man..I just think Barkley is that good..I don't want to pass on him for Chubb just my opinion..Now if we pick up a couple seconds in a trade back to pass on Barkley and still get Chubb, Nelson, or Fitzpatrick I'm on board with that..

Barkley is special. He is the best RB I've seen come out of college since I've been watching college football. If I had to rank him, I'd rank him above Elliot and above Fournette and above McCaffrey and above Gurley. And I still don't think any of them is worth the pick they were drafted with. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, stitches said:

Barkley is special. He is the best RB I've seen come out of college since I've been watching college football. If I had to rank him, I'd rank him above Elliot and above Fournette and above McCaffrey and above Gurley. And I still don't think any of them is worth the pick they were drafted with. 

IMO 

  The Colts can’t afford to miss on the pick and at this point drafting a RB at 3 is trying to put a square peg in a round hole

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Barkley is special. He is the best RB I've seen come out of college since I've been watching college football. If I had to rank him, I'd rank him above Elliot and above Fournette and above McCaffrey and above Gurley. And I still don't think any of them is worth the pick they were drafted with. 

Yeah Barkley is the closest thing at RB I have seen since Peterson came out in 2007. I think he will be slightly better than Zeke and Zeke was Great his Rookie Season. I have been wrong before though so I guess we will see. I like Chubb, it may seem like I don't but I think he will be a Good Pro at worse. I am just not sure about his greatness. It's really a guessing game at this point.

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Barkley is special. He is the best RB I've seen come out of college since I've been watching college football. If I had to rank him, I'd rank him above Elliot and above Fournette and above McCaffrey and above Gurley. And I still don't think any of them is worth the pick they were drafted with. 

That's fair, you very well could prove to be right..I value RB higher than you do if they are elite just my personal preference, I think other than QB they impact the game more than any other player..They effect everything, keep defense off the field, open things up for qbs and receivers off play action, make opposing defenses honest and afraid to blitz which also protects QB..Barkley is also the best receiving RB I have ever seen, he is a guy you can put a certain number of plays in the slot even when you play Mack, he is a different beast all together..

[stitches]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

IMO 

  The Colts can’t afford to miss on the pick and at this point drafting a RB at 3 is trying to put a square peg in a round hole

I don't really agree with this... Barkley will be fantastic fit in any system IMO, including in ours. I expect him to have great career if we pick him. I just don't like the value RBs provide when picked this high. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

That's fair, you very well could prove to be right..I value RB higher if they are elite, I think other than QB they impact the game more than any other player..They effect everything, keep defense off the field, open things up for qbs and receivers off play action, make opposing defenses honest and afraid to blitz which also protects QB..Barkley is also the best receiving RB I have ever seen, he is a guy you can put a certain number of plays in the slot even when you play Mack, he is a different beast all together..

I feel a bit different but I am an OL Through and Through 

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't really agree with this... Barkley will be fantastic fit in any system IMO, including in ours. I expect him to have great career if we pick him. I just don't like the value RBs provide when picked this high. 

It is not based on his abilities but the team needs and IMO the team has greater ones as of now

 

   If there weren’t guys like Chubb, Nelson or even Fitzpatrick or good RB prospects like Chubb out there I might feel a bit different 

[jshipp23]

9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I feel a bit different but I am an OL Through and Through 

I agree it's important..I just think we should sign Norwell and Sitton both in free agency and use our draft picks to strengthen areas you can't find in free agency..Every year there are good Guards available in FA and it takes rookie offensive lineman time to develop and they can bust, the last 2 guards picked top ten were busts..Now if we needed an elite tackle that's a different story, they rarely are available in FA so you have to draft them high..I don't think that is a major need yet for us..

[jshipp23]

The analytics part of it is overrated as far as grading out football players..If it's baseball it's a different story..I think you should choose football players off what you see on tape mainly, as well as judging their mentality and character traits..

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I don't agree with the mentality that a position that carries the football 20-30 times or more in a game should not acquire a possible generatonal talent to do so. Not that he would get 100% of the carries but a significant number.

 

Surely  average to slightly above avetage players that fit needs can be acquired later.

 

 

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

His height weight and 40 have been..

 

Well, that settles it then. 

 

 

Who cares about a 40 time for a Dlineman?

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Growing up around and in Locker Rooms and Coaches Meeting I see things very different than many. Instead of the diamond that could be had I see the sink holes that are there everywhere else

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Well, that settles it then. 

 

 

Who cares about a 40 time for a Dlineman?

 

Nfl scouts and G.Ms

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Nfl scouts and G.Ms

Not as much as one would think

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not as much as one would think

I think the fact Dwight Freeney ran a 4.48 forty at combine probably played a role in Polian taking him at 11 in first round..

[Cynjin]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Nfl scouts and G.Ms

 

Not for Dlinemen they don't.  They care about the 10 yard split, the 3 cone, the shuttle, the vertical, and the broad jump as far as measurables on Dlineman.  Anything that shows explosiveness, agility, and flexibility, the 40 shows straight-line speed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not as much as one would think

Building a Great O.Line is very important IMO. I hope in Free Agency we get one of those Great one's that have been talked about. Having a Great Line can make QB's and RB's look better than they are actually. Protecting Luck is really key now since his injuries.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Not for Dlinemen they don't.  They care about the 10 yard split, the 3 cone, the shuttle, the vertical, and the broad jump as far as measurables on Dlineman.  Anything that shows explosiveness, agility, and flexibility, the 40 shows straight-line speed.

There are so many factors 

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Not for Dlinemen they don't.  They care about the 10 yard split, the 3 cone, the shuttle, the vertical, and the broad jump as far as measurables on Dlineman.  Anything that shows explosiveness, agility, and flexibility, the 40 shows straight-line speed.

Yeah for interior lineman it isn't as important, but 40 time is important for OLBs and Defensive ends thay often have to run close to that chasing plays down..

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Building a Great O.Line is very important IMO. I hope in Free Agency we get one of those Great one's that have been talked about. Having a Great Line can make QB's and RB's look better than they are actually. Protecting Luck is really key now since his injuries.

Yes 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Yeah for interior lineman, 40 time is important for OLBs and Defensive ends thay often have to run close to that chasing plays down..

40s are losing their importance since it is very coachable 

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Not for Dlinemen they don't.  They care about the 10 yard split, the 3 cone, the shuttle, the vertical, and the broad jump as far as measurables on Dlineman.  Anything that shows explosiveness, agility, and flexibility, the 40 shows straight-line speed.

Usually in order to run a fast 40 you need a quick burst and explosion to get up to speed fast, it's not just about straight line speed..Initial burst and fast twitch muscles is extremely important..

[Cynjin]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Yeah for interior lineman it isn't as important, but 40 time is important for OLBs and Defensive ends thay often have to run close to that chasing plays down..

 

It has very little relevance for a DE, very little.  The 10 yard split is far more significant for a DE, then the 20 yard split.  There are many, many factors that NFL teams would look at before they ever considered the 40 yard time.  The 40 time just has very little to do with what , DE does in football.

[Cynjin]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Usually in order to run a fast 40 you need a quick burst and explosion to get up to speed fast, it's not just about straight line speed..Initial burst and fast twitch muscles is extremely important..

 

Right, which is why teams care about the 10 yard split and the other tests much more than the 40.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

Right, which is why teams care about the 10 yard split and the other tests much more than the 40.

They go hand in hand you aren't gonna run a fast 40 without a fast 10 yard split..10 yard is more important for Defensive tackles because they aren't going to have the endurance to be running down plays like an end..

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Right, which is why teams care about the 10 yard split and the other tests much more than the 40.

How do you know what most teams care about?

[PrincetonTiger]

A Great 40 time doesn’t make a Great Football Player

  They are run

    With No Pads in special clothing

    When the player is Fresh

    Without Pressure

[jshipp23]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

A Great 40 time doesn’t make a Great Football Player

  They are run

    With No Pads in special clothing

    When the player is Fresh

    Without Pressure

Who said it did? I think football players should mainly be picked off game film..Instincts plays a major role in football players, a slower less athletic guy like a Zach Thomas or Terrell Suggs make up for lack of speed with instincts and feel for the game..Then you have guys like T.j Green with insane athletic traits with zero instincts or awareness..Ideally you want a guy with both, but just because a player doesn't test well doesn't mean he won't be a great player or vice versa..

[Cynjin]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

How do you know what most teams care about?

 

Because they care about what is relevant to the position.  Rarely do DE's have to run 40 yards in a straight line, they do have to run 10 or fewer yards all the time, usually not in a straight line.  The 40 time is way down the list, the 3 cone, shuttle, etc. are more important.  Honestly, they care more about what they see on tape.  That is why some players that did not test as well end up being better players.

[Malakai432]

On 2/23/2018 at 3:21 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Guice will be gone too but he could be there early in Round 2 if we are lucky because I think we take Chubb in the 1st.

 

If possible, it would be nice to do a trade back for either Chubb or Nelson, then snag Guice.  Mack and Guice could make a great tandem.  

[jshipp23]

14 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Because they care about what is relevant to the position.  Rarely do DE's have to run 40 yards in a straight line, they do have to run 10 or fewer yards all the time, usually not in a straight line.  The 40 time is way down the list, the 3 cone, shuttle, etc. are more important.  Honestly, they care more about what they see on tape.  That is why some players that did not test as well end up being better players.

Well, when you have to chase down Watson, Mariota, and Bortles 6 games a year I think it is wise to draft fast players including 40 times in your assesment..Just my opinion..

[PrincetonTiger]

11 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

If possible, it would be nice to do a trade back for either Chubb or Nelson, then snag Guice.  Mack and Guice could make a great tandem.  

Nick Chubb could be a possibility too 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Nick Chubb could be a possibility too 

I like Guice better but we are splitting hairs on that one. Chubb will be pretty Good IMO. Guice is a little faster.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

30 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

How do you know what most teams care about?

 

Well even though he wasn't born in a football locker room or raised by coaches JSship has picked up things here and there.

 

 

 

Just joking Princeton Tiger, just messing with you.

 

Incidentally, I was practically raised inside a Dog Track. My second income lol.

I have this recurring dream where i keep saying outload in my sleep "8 over 1346, 8 over 1346". Lol

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Guice better but we are splitting hairs on that one. Chubb will be pretty Good IMO. Guice is a little faster.

No problem with DG just adding another name

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Well even though he wasn't born in a football locker room or raised by coaches JSship has picked up things here and there.

 

 

 

Just joking Princeton Tiger, just messing with you.

 

Incidentally, I was practically raised inside a Dog Track. My second income lol.

I have this recurring dream where i keep saying outload in my sleep "8 over 1346, 8 over 1346". Lol

 

 

My demonstration speech in Speech Class was “How to Pull and Seal in a Wing T Offense”