What's The Real Arguement Against Pey-Luck?

[scorptile]

He is not being drafted under a healthy Manning. We have no idea how Manning will be next season. This is why it is a very real possibility Luck could be starting. I am not saying he will for sure but if we were talking about a 100% Manning that never had the surgery and somehow in an unlikely scenario we got Luck, Then no, Luck would NOT be starting over Manning. But this is different, this is a different Manning right now.

I do agree that we don't know if Peyton will take a cut. For some reason fans think Manning will come back to the Colts and take a mediocre Salary and try to carry a rebulding team back to the Super Bowl. Mannings first and foremost priority is to win Super Bowls. Not retire as a Colt, not please the fans, not teach a backup QB how to play, its to win super bowls. He may very well find another team that is more SB ready for the Colts and choose them regardless.

sorry to say it was manning saying he did not want a big contract and to build a team around him. and if you dont remember he has said many many many many times he wants to retire a colt. but the problem is alot of fans have already decided luck is 1000 times better then manning ever was. but yet he has yet to play a single second in the nfl. but yet hes the next montana, manning etc. i think instead of spewing off at the mouth inaccuracies i think alot of fans should get their facts straight first before they post. for all we know luck can be just like ryan leaf and be gone in 3 years. anyone ever question why luck didnt wanna throw at the combine? i brought this point up wiht a few at work and came up with maybe his WR's are that good and making him look better and not the other way around.

[BleedingBlue]

i had a Huge arguement with a sports editor friend of mine over the Chargers trading of Drew Brees. I thought they were crazy....He thought Brees was hurt so they needed to move on.

Not a day goes by that I don't let him forget it. I'm like a freaking elephant.

[Superman]

i had a Huge arguement with a sports editor friend of mine over the Chargers trading of Drew Brees. I thought they were crazy....He thought Brees was hurt so they needed to move on.

Not a day goes by that I don't let him forget it. I'm like a freaking elephant.

They didn't trade Drew Brees. He was a free agent and they let him go to New Orleans.

[UndecidedFrog]

sorry to say it was manning saying he did not want a big contract and to build a team around him. and if you dont remember he has said many many many many times he wants to retire a colt. but the problem is alot of fans have already decided luck is 1000 times better then manning ever was. but yet he has yet to play a single second in the nfl. but yet hes the next montana, manning etc. i think instead of spewing off at the mouth inaccuracies i think alot of fans should get their facts straight first before they post. for all we know luck can be just like ryan leaf and be gone in 3 years. anyone ever question why luck didnt wanna throw at the combine? i brought this point up wiht a few at work and came up with maybe his WR's are that good and making him look better and not the other way around.

1) I do not want a big contract = I want a small, eensty, binsy, miniscule, almost zero minimum contract?

2) I want to retire a colt = I can go to many other teams, but eventually, I will do a one day deal so that I am traded to the colts, where I can retire.

3) Fans who see more value in drafting and starting the QB of the future for the team = Fans who think Luck is 1000 x better than PM ever was?

4) Spewing off at the mouth.... you don't say.

[WSO]

sorry to say it was manning saying he did not want a big contract and to build a team around him. and if you dont remember he has said many many many many times he wants to retire a colt. but the problem is alot of fans have already decided luck is 1000 times better then manning ever was. but yet he has yet to play a single second in the nfl. but yet hes the next montana, manning etc. i think instead of spewing off at the mouth inaccuracies i think alot of fans should get their facts straight first before they post. for all we know luck can be just like ryan leaf and be gone in 3 years. anyone ever question why luck didnt wanna throw at the combine? i brought this point up wiht a few at work and came up with maybe his WR's are that good and making him look better and not the other way around.

Do you really not understand why Luck did not throw at the combine? And why he will at his pro day? I hope I dont have to explain it

[WSO]

Condon says all those things. Of course Condon has a problem with it. Peyton brings him the most income of all his clients.You think an agent is okay with the their client taking little to nil money? No, that means they also get little to nil money. If you think in Peyton's mind he feels like he is obligated to this money you are dead wrong. The only thing he feels obligated to is earning what they give him. Time and time again Peyton has proved money isn't what he is after. His last contract Jim Irsay was dancing about saying he is going to make Peyton the highest paid player ever, somewhere around a contract of $125-130 million. Peyton came out instantly and said he didn't want that at all. His contract in '04 he did the same thing. In Peyton's mind he feels he needs to earn that money. When he entered the league, you can see in that interview, Peyton was asked by the media what he is going to do with his money and he said "earn it." Which he did actually say. I can guarantee it bothered him last season he made that money by doing nothing. This is why he pushed himself as hard as he could to come back an try and help his team. So until you have words from Peyton's mouth saying money is what I want then you have no argument.

His last contract was initially going to be 5 years 100 million and he deffered and took a WHOPPING 10 million discount. /sarcasm

Manning, Colts Reach Five-Year, $90M Deal

30th July, 2011 - 5:08 pm

Chris Mortensen/ESPN.com - The Colts and quarterback Peyton Manning have agreed to a five-year, $90 million contract, according to sources.

An Indianapolis source said Manning had told owner Jim Irsay that a five-year, $100 million proposal was not necessary to give him a $20 million average that no NFL player has ever attained

And he takes less so the Colts can surround him with better talent and re-sign more players. . .except the Colts aren't doing that this year. They are taking his successor instead of trading the pick to surround him with young talent. This goes back to, if Manning is truly the short term decision for the franchise, Why not surround him with talent by trading the first pick? Even if he comes back and re-structures his contract for far less money, trading the pick would allow them to grab a lot of young talent AND have money to re-sign free agents. This would be what is best for Manning. But instead the Colts are taking a quarterback, bring in a new offensive coordinator, and so far have not reached out to Mannings #1 target (Wayne) to be re-signed. Why? Then there is still Diem, Saturday, Garcon, Tammee. . .and the only one left is Christensen who isn't even an OC anymore.

[WSO]

(IMO Grigs and Pag have seen him throw), obviously this can't be proven so Ill agree with you here.

Here I disagree. After Eli won ring #2 Peyton was asked point blank if there is a need for another ring to compete with little brother and he said he would be happy with his achievements if he never took another snap in teh NFL again. In a seperate interview he said he wants to retire a colt. IN an older interview he said he wants to play about 16 years (which leaves 2).

Let me just throw this out there. Remember when we were furious over the fact that Caldwell hadn't been fired? Then all of the sudden, Irsay fires him, the rest of the staff and the GM.

We could very well be reading this whole thing entirely wrong. Posturing is always a possibility.

Now those older interviews, were they pre or post surgery(The latest one)? Because pre surgery of course he would retire as a colt and want to play 16 years. As for the rings, you cannot seriously think Manning is contempt with 1 SB ring can you? He wants more. Every NFL player wants more. You have to realize Manning says the RIGHT things in interviews because he has a lot of character and is an outstanding person. He is not going to sit there and say, "I want to win 1 or 2 at least to be ahead of ELi" or anything like that. He says the right things.

This is one of the most competitive guys in the game and I cannot believe you think his main focus is NOT to win a SB. I'm sure retiring as a Colt and pleasing fans is up there but I guarantee winning a SB is his first and foremost priority.

[BleedingBlue]

I agree that there is posturing. possibly on both sides.

[Fx Stryker]

His last contract was initially going to be 5 years 100 million and he deffered and took a WHOPPING 10 million discount. /sarcasm

And he takes less so the Colts can surround him with better talent and re-sign more players. . .except the Colts aren't doing that this year. They are taking his successor instead of trading the pick to surround him with young talent. This goes back to, if Manning is truly the short term decision for the franchise, Why not surround him with talent by trading the first pick? Even if he comes back and re-structures his contract for far less money, trading the pick would allow them to grab a lot of young talent AND have money to re-sign free agents. This would be what is best for Manning. But instead the Colts are taking a quarterback, bring in a new offensive coordinator, and so far have not reached out to Mannings #1 target (Wayne) to be re-signed. Why? Then there is still Diem, Saturday, Garcon, Tammee. . .and the only one left is Christensen who isn't even an OC anymore.

Okay say we build that team for Manning. Then when he is done who is taking over? Dan Orlovsky? No disrespect to Dan, I like him a lot, he was a hero for us this year. We have a chance at a real unique situation in acquiring Andrew Luck, and everyone agrees you cannot pass on this kid. Just because you do not agree with Andrew sitting a handful of years doesn't mean it's wrong.

By the way Arians was Peyton's first quarterbacks coach you know.

The Colts haven't done anything this off-season yet. So saying they haven't reached out to Reggie doesn't mean anything. We heard what, Garcon declined a deal which later his agent said was untrue.

[WSO]

Okay say we build that team for Manning. Then when he is done who is taking over? Dan Orlovsky? No disrespect to Dan, I like him a lot, he was a hero for us this year. We have a chance at a real unique situation in acquiring Andrew Luck, and everyone agrees you cannot pass on this kid. Just because you do not agree with Andrew sitting a handful of years doesn't mean it's wrong.

By the way Arians was Peyton's first quarterbacks coach you know.

The Colts haven't done anything this off-season yet. So saying they haven't reached out to Reggie doesn't mean anything. We heard what, Garcon declined a deal which later his agent said was untrue.

If the Colts build that team, it is not my problem. I am AGAINST trading the pick. I want the Colts to take Luck and just be ready for the long term future and not worry about the QB position 3 or 4 years down the road. I'm saying IF the Colts REALLY saw Manning as the short term answer, they would trade the pick. By not trading the pick I am assuming they are more concerned with the long term future in Luck than the short term future with Manning. They do not want to be in the scenario 4 years from now not having an answer to Manning leaving. Which is why Manning will be cut. IF he does come back, it will be a one or two year deal. Not a long term deal. And Luck is not sitting on the bench for 4 years. I will bet everything I have that he won't sit for 4 years.

Also Reggie is the one that came out and said the Colts have not contacted him.

If Andrew Luck is such a can't miss prospect, why is he going to be sitting for 4 years? You sure talk him up a lot, even more than I yet you want him to sit for 4 years. Doesn't make sense to me. If a prospect is that good, he should be starting day 1.

[Fx Stryker]

If the Colts build that team, it is not my problem. I am AGAINST trading the pick. I want the Colts to take Luck and just be ready for the long term future and not worry about the QB position 3 or 4 years down the road. I'm saying IF the Colts REALLY saw Manning as the short term answer, they would trade the pick. By not trading the pick I am assuming they are more concerned with the long term future in Luck than the short term future with Manning. They do not want to be in the scenario 4 years from now not having an answer to Manning leaving. Which is why Manning will be cut. IF he does come back, it will be a one or two year deal. Not a long term deal. And Luck is not sitting on the bench for 4 years. I will bet everything I have that he won't sit for 4 years.

Also Reggie is the one that came out and said the Colts have not contacted him.

If Andrew Luck is such a can't miss prospect, why is he going to be sitting for 4 years? You sure talk him up a lot, even more than I yet you want him to sit for 4 years. Doesn't make sense to me. If a prospect is that good, he should be starting day 1.

Trading the pick jeopardizes the future of the franchise. Manning is our short term answer. Just as Luck can be our long term answer. You don't have to choose between one or the other. Not trading the pick doesn't necessarily mean you are committed to the future more. Balancing the short and long is what they are doing. All are not "signs" Manning is cut. Four years is not a long term deal. Luck will still have 13/14 years to play after. I mean he can start day 1. Except The other QB is Peyton Manning.

Reggie talks all the time. The thing is we haven't contacted anyone as far as fans know. Reggie probably feels he is the only one not getting talked to. When in reality no one is.

[WSO]

Trading the pick jeopardizes the future of the franchise. Manning is our short term answer. Just as Luck can be our long term answer. You don't have to choose between one or the other. Not trading the pick doesn't necessarily mean you are committed to the future more. Balancing the short and long is what they are doing. All are not "signs" Manning is cut. Four years is not a long term deal. Luck will still have 13/14 years to play after. I mean he can start day 1. Except The other QB is Peyton Manning.

Reggie talks all the time. The thing is we haven't contacted anyone as far as fans know. Reggie probably feels he is the only one not getting talked to. When in reality no one is.

so the short term future will be a 36 year old QB with 3 (4?) surgeries who hasn't played in a year instead of a #1 overall QB? Why is it that Luck cannot start day 1? Manning is not 100% and yes nearly everyone suggests Manning will be cut. That doesn't mean he won't be a Colt but the Colts are certainly not going to pay Manning 28 million dollars.

"I want him to be able to make the choice. We would love to have him back here if he can get healthy and we can look at doing a contract that reflects the uncertainty of the … healing process with the regeneration of the nerve."

This isn't the 2010 Manning, this is a different Manning and we have no idea how he will play from here on out.

[Fx Stryker]

so the short term future will be a 36 year old QB with 3 (4?) surgeries who hasn't played in a year instead of a #1 overall QB? Why is it that Luck cannot start day 1? Manning is not 100% and yes nearly everyone suggests Manning will be cut. That doesn't mean he won't be a Colt but the Colts are certainly not going to pay Manning 28 million dollars.

This isn't the 2010 Manning, this is a different Manning and we have no idea how he will play from here on out.

I thought Luck was here for the long term? So now you are saying Luck is a better option than Manning right away? Jim Irsay doesn't think so.

If he's healthy, he'd handle 2012 better than Andrew could.

http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mfTfLpmZ

You mean this Manning?

"He threw the ball and he threw it quite well. The ball had good velocity. He was accurate. He was able to stand on the left hash and throw it to the right sideline. And vice versa. He threw the ball pretty well. He didn't get much beyond 25 or 28 yards. But all the throws that he made were accurate, on the money and had good velocity,"

This was only do to the fact because they restricted the workout, and they knew he would have tried. This would have messed his fusion healing. So two months ago we knew he could throw the ball "quite well" even with his fusion not fully healed. Since then he has continued to rehab, and now his neck is 100%.

[UndecidedFrog]

Since then he has continued to rehab, and now his neck is 100%.

And you know this because of the medical clearance to play football.

Since his neck isn't the appendage that is throwing the football 28 yards, how do you know if his arm is 100%?

[WSO]

I thought Luck was here for the long term? So now you are saying Luck is a better option than Manning right away? Jim Irsay doesn't think so.

You mean this Manning?

This was only do to the fact because they restricted the workout, and they knew he would have tried. This would have messed his fusion healing. So two months ago we knew he could throw the ball "quite well" even with his fusion not fully healed. Since then he has continued to rehab, and now his neck is 100%.

yes key word healthy, this is what Irsay has been saying for months now. . nothing new. Yet. . . he isn't healthy.

Despite all the reports I do not see anything about Manning being declared 100 % healthy. There is no short term for Luck. He starts and thats it. Do you expect him to stop after a few seasons or something?

Also his neck is not the problem. Its the regenerating nerve.

ALSO I also hope you aren't claiming that report was from 2 months ago as that is a direct quote from Polian just days ago. You claim "two months ago we know he could throw the ball quite well". . . Try to get your facts straight.

[WSO]

And you know this because of the medical clearance to play football.

How do you know if his arm is 100%?

Hes trying to pass off that quote from "2 months ago" even though Polian just stated all that 4 or 5 days ago. I also have no idea where the 'restricted work out' came from.

[Fx Stryker]

And you know this because of the medical clearance to play football.

Since his neck isn't the appendage that is throwing the football 28 yards, how do you know if his arm is 100%?

Never claimed his arm was 100%. I just said he was throwing "quite well" within a 25 yard range. They limited it in 25 yard range because at the time his neck was still healing. Which was two months ago. Since then he has continued to rehab, and progress.

yes key word healthy, this is what Irsay has been saying for months now. . nothing new. Yet. . . he isn't healthy.

Despite all the reports I do not see anything about Manning being declared 100 % healthy. There is no short term for Luck. He starts and thats it. Do you expect him to stop after a few seasons or something?

Also his neck is not the problem. Its the regenerating nerve.

ALSO I also hope you aren't claiming that report was from 2 months ago as that is a direct quote from Polian just days ago. You claim "two months ago we know he could throw the ball quite well". . . Try to get your facts straight.

I never claimed Peyton being completely healthy. I said his neck is 100%, the fusion is complete and if that was the only issue he could play. I never once said his arm was 100%. Do not spin my words.

Also I never said Luck is just a short term. I just said in the short term of our future. Which is our immediate future. Luck isn't the better option to a healthy Peyton Manning. Which is what Irsay said. You said "Why is it Luck cannot start day day 1?" This suggests he is better option at any time.

At the time of the workout his neck was still an issue.

Hes trying to pass off that quote from "2 months ago" even though Polian just stated all that 4 or 5 days ago. I also have no idea where the 'restricted work out' came from.

That workout was in December. Doesn't matter when Polian said it. doesn't shift the time of when the workout happened. So yes two months ago he could throw the ball within the redzone. This was setup as a scripted workout. Polian has said this many times. If it's scripted Peyton cannot go outside of the workout so therefor it is restricted to 25 yards.

[UndecidedFrog]

Never claimed his arm was 100%. I just said he was throwing "quite well" within a 25 yard range. They limited it in 25 yard range because at the time his neck was still healing. Which was two months ago. Since then he has continued to rehab, and progress.

I never claimed Peyton being completely healthy. I said his neck is 100%, the fusion is complete and if that was the only issue he could play. I never once said his arm was 100%. Do not spin my words.

Also I never said Luck is just a short term. I just said in the short term of our future. Which is our immediate future. Luck isn't the better option to a healthy Peyton Manning. Which is what Irsay said. You said "Why is it Luck cannot start day day 1?" This suggests he is better option at any time.

At the time of the workout his neck was still an issue.

That workout was in December. Doesn't matter when Polian said it. doesn't shift the time of when the workout happened. So yes two months ago he could throw the ball within the redzone.

So, even though his neck is at 100%, we have no evidence that his arm is at NFL levels now.

[Fx Stryker]

So, even though his neck is at 100%, we have no evidence that his arm is at NFL levels now.

No, but I never claimed it has been NFL level. We know he can throw within a 25 yard range two months ago. This is with a neck that wasn't 100% so that could have held him back. To this date he has a fully healthy neck, thus not restricting him, and has two more months of rehab towards his progress. It's safe to assume he can throw the ball within bigger parameters. What they are we do not know.

[UndecidedFrog]

No, but I never claimed it has been NFL level. We know he can throw within a 25 yard range two months ago. This is with a neck that wasn't 100% so that could have held him back. To this date he has a fully healthy neck, thus not restricting him, and has two more months of rehab towards his progress. It's safe to assume he can throw the ball within bigger parameters. What they are we do not know.

I did not accuse you of claiming that his arm is back. I just wanted to confirm that you and I are seeing the same information and evidence, from which to draw conclusions.

[WSO]

Never claimed his arm was 100%. I just said he was throwing "quite well" within a 25 yard range. They limited it in 25 yard range because at the time his neck was still healing. Which was two months ago. Since then he has continued to rehab, and progress.

I never claimed Peyton being completely healthy. I said his neck is 100%, the fusion is complete and if that was the only issue he could play. I never once said his arm was 100%. Do not spin my words.

Also I never said Luck is just a short term. I just said in the short term of our future. Which is our immediate future. Luck isn't the better option to a healthy Peyton Manning. Which is what Irsay said. You said "Why is it Luck cannot start day day 1?" This suggests he is better option at any time.

At the time of the workout his neck was still an issue.

That workout was in December. Doesn't matter when Polian said it. doesn't shift the time of when the workout happened. So yes two months ago he could throw the ball within the redzone. This was setup as a scripted workout. Polian has said this many times. If it's scripted Peyton cannot go outside of the workout so therefor it is restricted to 25 yards.

Im not twisting any words, you provided a quote from Irsay stating a healthy Manning is a better option than a 2012 Luck. I get it but where is the healthy Manning? That was my question. We are sitting a week away from the bonus and he still isn't healthy. Also I didn't know Irsay was referring to that workout. That being said the issue was always arm strength anyways. Around december there was also a report about Manning throwing short to short/intermediate passes very well as quoted by Addai but nothing deep.

When I originally stated Luck was the long term, I am talking from day 1. I dont understand how Luck can be short term even if he starts day 1. Manning on the other hand I get. Right now Luck is a better option than Manning because we do not know what Mannings health is like. We know he will almost certainly be cut and then it will be up to Manning if he wants to return. That is my point.

[coltsgoodin]

Its been talked about before but lets set it all out..

Ive heard how Luck sitting 3 years behind Peyton Manning will ^fool^ his growth as a player..

I've heard how Manning will resent the Colts draft his successor.

But Luck's dad was in the NFL..he knows rookie QB s history..and Andrew does not sound like an egomaniac who would demand to play immediately....ahead of an NFL star

.. Manning knows he wont play forever and its actually a compliment to him to ask him to groom his successor....especailly a kid he already knows and a friend of the family. Its perfect for him.

Money isnt the issue. Luck can only be paid so much and Manning will renegotiate his contract..

Manning has structured his deal before to allow his teammates to be paid.

History shows its no problem for him.

Assuming these statements to be true.....

Why not have them both? We would have the top QB tandem in all of football.

We would have depth at the most important offensive position...

We would be taking ther best player available and would still have the No. 34 pick (approximately the final pick in the first round where we drafted aftre 2009)

WE would have the smooth transition to the future without going through another 2-14 or even 6-10

(and we would finally win an exhibition game)

There's got to be something more here.

I understand those who wants Manning and not Luck.

I understand the ones who want Luck and not Manning.

I DONT UNDERSTAND those who wouldnt want both.

What would your confidence level in the Colts chances be this fall with both Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck under contract?.

What would media attention for our team be like?

What do you think their record would be.?

Why not have both?

That using the phrase "pey-luck" is the stupidest terminology that anybody could ever use.

[Fx Stryker]

Im not twisting any words, you provided a quote from Irsay stating a healthy Manning is a better option than a 2012 Luck. I get it but where is the healthy Manning? That was my question. We are sitting a week away from the bonus and he still isn't healthy. Also I didn't know Irsay was referring to that workout. That being said the issue was always arm strength anyways. Around december there was also a report about Manning throwing short to short/intermediate passes very well as quoted by Addai but nothing deep.

When I originally stated Luck was the long term, I am talking from day 1. I dont understand how Luck can be short term even if he starts day 1. Manning on the other hand I get. Right now Luck is a better option than Manning because we do not know what Mannings health is like. We know he will almost certainly be cut and then it will be up to Manning if he wants to return. That is my point.

Where are you getting Manning isn't healthy? Jason La Canfora? I'm not saying he is healthy, but you cannot say he isn't healthy. We have heard nothing recently concerning his health. The last thing we heard about his throwing ability is he can throw within a 25 yard range two months ago. Which is the quote from Polian I gave about the workout. It's not an Irsay quote. When Irsay speaks about his health it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't close to being healthy. He is just concerned about his future health after football.

Our immediate future is within the next five years. Our long term future is after that. Luck is potentially our guy in the long term. Now the question is Peyton the QB in the short term future, or is Luck? Luck can be our QB in our short term future, and the continue for us in long term.

[UndecidedFrog]

Where are you getting Manning isn't healthy?

One reason I am getting that Manning isn't healthy (arm strength back to normal) is that he is currently still rehabbing after multiple neck surgeries. In an interview he gave to Wingo, PM said that he is trying very hard to get better. If he was healthy (arm strength back to normal), he wouldn't be trying.

[Fx Stryker]

One reason I am getting that Manning isn't healthy (arm strength back to normal) is that he is currently still rehabbing after multiple neck surgeries. In an interview he gave to Wingo, PM said that he is trying very hard to get better. If he was healthy (arm strength back to normal), he wouldn't be trying.

At the time of the interview we know he is still unhealthy. That is all that concludes. Also in the interview he said he is still making progress. So within the month we know nothing about he could have gotten close to 100%, but we don't know. To unanimously so he isn't healthy is not fair to Peyton. He could have woken up one day within this month, and has complete feeling in his arm. We know nothing though.

[WSO]

Where are you getting Manning isn't healthy? Jason La Canfora? I'm not saying he is healthy, but you cannot say he isn't healthy. We have heard nothing recently concerning his health. The last thing we heard about his throwing ability is he can throw within a 25 yard range two months ago. Which is the quote from Polian I gave about the workout. It's not an Irsay quote. When Irsay speaks about his health it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't close to being healthy. He is just concerned about his future health after football.

Our immediate future is within the next five years. Our long term future is after that. Luck is potentially our guy in the long term. Now the question is Peyton the QB in the short term future, or is Luck? Luck can be our QB in our short term future, and the continue for us in long term.

The bolded was exactly what I was stating except I consider it all long term.

Wait so you can't say he is healthy and I can't say he is not healthy? What does that even mean? Multiple interviews even with Manning himself state he is progressing but not at the 100 % mark. We know he isn't at the 100% mark because he hasn't said he is at the 100% mark.

If you look at the two sides even with the past, there is evidence he is not healthy, while on the other side not a single shred of evidence shows he is healthy. What you're doing in your post is guessing. Using your logic, whos to say he hasn't plateud? There are articles of doctors stating that nerve regeneration can plateu.. Even though no one has said he has plateu'd and there is not a shred of evidence, you can't say he hasn't and I can't say he has. See how this logic is flawed?

There would be a lot of incentitive for Manning to state he is healthy. That would put a lot of pressure on Irsay NOT ONLY to keep him as a Colt but a very real possibility he may actually pay the 28million if he deems him 28million dollars healthy. On the other side even if he is cut, by him stating he is healthy, it attracts a lot of attention from other teams. So Manning if he was healthy would certainly let the world know as its a huge incentitive for him. Especially being the bonus is due just over a week from now.

[number28]

Where are you getting Manning isn't healthy? Jason La Canfora? I'm not saying he is healthy, but you cannot say he isn't healthy. We have heard nothing recently concerning his health. The last thing we heard about his throwing ability is he can throw within a 25 yard range two months ago. Which is the quote from Polian I gave about the workout. It's not an Irsay quote. When Irsay speaks about his health it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't close to being healthy. He is just concerned about his future health after football.

Our immediate future is within the next five years. Our long term future is after that. Luck is potentially our guy in the long term. Now the question is Peyton the QB in the short term future, or is Luck? Luck can be our QB in our short term future, and the continue for us in long term.

well said!! You basically just summed up exactly what I wanted to say.

[Fx Stryker]

The bolded was exactly what I was stating except I consider it all long term.

Wait so you can't say he is healthy and I can't say he is not healthy? What does that even mean? Multiple interviews even with Manning himself state he is progressing but not at the 100 % mark. We know he isn't at the 100% mark because he hasn't said he is at the 100% mark.

If you look at the two sides even with the past, there is evidence he is not healthy, while on the other side not a single shred of evidence shows he is healthy. What you're doing in your post is guessing. Using your logic, whos to say he hasn't plateud? There are articles of doctors stating that nerve regeneration can plateu.. Even though no one has said he has plateu'd and there is not a shred of evidence, you can't say he hasn't and I can't say he has. See how this logic is flawed?

There would be a lot of incentitive for Manning to state he is healthy. That would put a lot of pressure on Irsay NOT ONLY to keep him as a Colt but a very real possibility he may actually pay the 28million if he deems him 28million dollars healthy. On the other side even if he is cut, by him stating he is healthy, it attracts a lot of attention from other teams. So Manning if he was healthy would certainly let the world know as its a huge incentitive for him. Especially being the bonus is due just over a week from now.

Everyone knows a healthy Peyton is better for us in the immediate future. Luck can be our immediate guy, but is not more beneficial in anyway. As long as both are in this league Andrew is not a better QB. So if that means in the fifth year of Peyton's contract we have Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, Andrew will be on the bench.

Same thing I said to Frog on what Peyton said, At the time of the interview we know he is still unhealthy. That is all that concludes. Also in the interview he said he is still making progress, significant is the word I believe he used. So within the month we know nothing about he could have gotten close to 100%, but we don't know. To unanimously say he isn't healthy is not fair to Peyton. He could have woken up one day within this month, and has complete feeling in his arm. We know nothing though. In the past there is evidence he is more than capable of throwing a football.

So how does letting the media know he is healthy help him exactly? You are assuming Peyton needs to be open about how he has progressed. Yes, him saying can inform us, but he isn't obligated. As fans though we are suppose to stand behind, and support everyone on this team. Currently Peyton is, and Andrew is not. I support Curtis Painter more than Andrew Luck because there is a difference between Peyton and Curtis then Andrew. They are Indianapolis Colts. Andrew is not.

When have the Colts ever been open about a player's health? You could take him being quiet as the basic Colt protocol. We aren't open about player injuries so there is no need for him to be. Irsay knows exactly knows where Peyton is which is all that matters. They are in constant communication. Peyton, Irsay, and the Colts have no obligation to let anyone know until March 8th, and they just have to inform the NFL. The media is not obligated to hear anything.

[WSO]

Everyone knows a healthy Peyton is better for us in the immediate future. Luck can be our immediate guy, but is not more beneficial in anyway. As long as both are in this league Andrew is not a better QB. So if that means in the fifth year of Peyton's contract we have Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, Andrew will be on the bench.

Same thing I said to Frog on what Peyton said, At the time of the interview we know he is still unhealthy. That is all that concludes. Also in the interview he said he is still making progress, significant is the word I believe he used. So within the month we know nothing about he could have gotten close to 100%, but we don't know. To unanimously say he isn't healthy is not fair to Peyton. He could have woken up one day within this month, and has complete feeling in his arm. We know nothing though. In the past there is evidence he is more than capable of throwing a football.

So how does letting the media know he is healthy help him exactly? You are assuming Peyton needs to be open about how he has progressed. Yes, him saying can inform us, but he isn't obligated. As fans though we are suppose to stand behind, and support everyone on this team. Currently Peyton is, and Andrew is not. I support Curtis Painter more than Andrew Luck because there is a difference between Peyton and Curtis then Andrew. They are Indianapolis Colts. Andrew is not.

When have the Colts ever been open about a player's health? You could take him being quiet as the basic Colt protocol. We aren't open about player injuries so there is no need for him to be. Irsay knows exactly knows where Peyton is which is all that matters. They are in constant communication. Peyton, Irsay, and the Colts have no obligation to let anyone know until March 8th, and they just have to inform the NFL. The media is not obligated to hear anything.

Not obligated but it's an incentitive and a powerful tool for Manning. They sure havent been open about it in the past but it's been much different this off season with all the rumors around Manning. Irsay came out and put the ball in Mannings court by saying he is open to renegotiating a contract that takes his health into account. This puts pressure on Manning to stay with the Colts. If manning says "hey I'm healthy" then Irsay will really not have an excuse to not sign Manning.

Still the logic is flawed. He could have woken up one day and felt like his nerve has plateaud. I have no evidence for it but you surely can't say im wrong as its a possibility. I want to make it clear I do think be is improving but just showing how the logic doesn't make sense. We all say he is unhealthy based on the evidence presented in front of us. Not any assumptions or guesses. There is no evidence right now that shows he is 100%. He may not be obligated to tell us he is 100% healthy but vice versa he doesn't have to tell us if he had run into complications or isn't getting arm strength back. I'm just saying the evidence shows that right now he is still unhealthy. Until further notice from the Colts or Manning.

[scorptile]

Do you really not understand why Luck did not throw at the combine? And why he will at his pro day? I hope I dont have to explain it

so wait please explain why he didnt throw at the combine to WR's hes never thrown to before to see if he really is as good as he is on film instead of waiting to go back to the WR's he has been throwing to for what 3 years minimum? yeah that makes sense. for all we know is those recievers are reall ygood at catching the ball and luck could be throwing to the vicinity of those players. this is what im talking about.

then again you are one of those that just want manning to go away so you can drool over luck. and btw if the colts say luck is to sit for 3-4 years on the bench then he will sit for 3-4 years. its his job not his decision whether he starts day one.

oh i forgot to add didnt luck specifically express his feelings that he did not want to play for the colts not once but on several occasions? so why even bother with that arrogant QB that in my opinion is gonna be like all the rest of the recent top picks that have proved they arnt as good as their draft status.

[scorptile]

1) I do not want a big contract = I want a small, eensty, binsy, miniscule, almost zero minimum contract? it was meant to say he wanted less money or the same he was making so the colts could get him better players to help with the success of the colts.

2) I want to retire a colt = I can go to many other teams, but eventually, I will do a one day deal so that I am traded to the colts, where I can retire.meaning he wants to have one place he calls home and not end up like alot of QB's that were shipped off in teh latter part of their careers.

3) Fans who see more value in drafting and starting the QB of the future for the team = Fans who think Luck is 1000 x better than PM ever was? dont you read any of the posts by these luck fans that already want peyton gone? according to them and a few other fans luck has already won us 2-3 superbowls without even playing a second in the nfl.

4) Spewing off at the mouth.... you don't say. nope just saying that certain fans have already ran manning out of town and trying to discredit him and the colts. and if they dont take luck all he double hockey sticks are gonna break lose.

[UndecidedFrog]

it was meant to say he wanted less money or the same he was making so the colts could get him better players to help with the success of the colts.

So, to make it crystal clear, what contract terms do you think will be acceptable to PM?

meaning he wants to have one place he calls home and not end up like alot of QB's that were shipped off in teh latter part of their careers.

If you were PM, would you play for vet minimum to stay in Indy?

dont you read any of the posts by these luck fans that already want peyton gone? according to them and a few other fans luck has already won us 2-3 superbowls without even playing a second in the nfl.

I read many posts, and I have yet to find any fan who claim that Luck already won us 2-3 SBs.

nope just saying that certain fans have already ran manning out of town and trying to discredit him and the colts. and if they dont take luck all he double hockey sticks are gonna break lose.

I doubt any fan can run any player out of town.

I doubt any fan has attempted to discredit PM or the Colts.

I think it is very much the opposite. It is the Manning fans that are over-emotional and attempt to discredit Luck, or anyone else they perceive as a threat that would make PM expendable.

[Fx Stryker]

Not obligated but it's an incentitive and a powerful tool for Manning. They sure havent been open about it in the past but it's been much different this off season with all the rumors around Manning. Irsay came out and put the ball in Mannings court by saying he is open to renegotiating a contract that takes his health into account. This puts pressure on Manning to stay with the Colts. If manning says "hey I'm healthy" then Irsay will really not have an excuse to not sign Manning.

Still the logic is flawed. He could have woken up one day and felt like his nerve has plateaud. I have no evidence for it but you surely can't say im wrong as its a possibility. I want to make it clear I do think be is improving but just showing how the logic doesn't make sense. We all say he is unhealthy based on the evidence presented in front of us. Not any assumptions or guesses. There is no evidence right now that shows he is 100%. He may not be obligated to tell us he is 100% healthy but vice versa he doesn't have to tell us if he had run into complications or isn't getting arm strength back. I'm just saying the evidence shows that right now he is still unhealthy. Until further notice from the Colts or Manning.

It's a powerful tool in a political battle. That isn't what Peyton and Jim are doing. What happened during the Super Bowl struck everyone so much because antithesis of how Peyton and Jim work. Now everything they say is view as a political battle. Irsay only has expressed concern for his future health and the money restraints the team is feeling. Like most other teams.

Healthy can has varied definitions among everyone. One hundred percent may not necessarily be what Irsay is looking for. He might just be looking for him to be able to throw the ball.

[scorptile]

So, to make it crystal clear, what contract terms do you think will be acceptable to PM?

easy restructure it to make it more manageable between the two parties.

If you were PM, would you play for vet minimum to stay in Indy?

did i say vet minimum? no i said a reduction in pay now your putting words in my mouth.

I read many posts, and I have yet to find any fan who claim that Luck already won us 2-3 SBs.

its how alot of "luck" fans are acting. like we will win 2-3 SB's with luck right out of the gate. like he is that great of a QB. Im starting to think he is jeff george the second coming.

I doubt any fan can run any player out of town.

I doubt any fan has attempted to discredit PM or the Colts.

I think it is very much the opposite. It is the Manning fans that are over-emotional and attempt to discredit Luck, or anyone else they perceive as a threat that would make PM expendable.

fans have influence over the teams they support and dont say they dont. between ticket sales and merchendise sales they have alot of influence.

how do you think certain players get a bad rep? its fans that start it.

what has luck done for this organization? luck fans have manning gone, and luck as the GOAT already. manning is not gone, and luck is still a college player. what do we really know about andrew luck? is he like peyton? is he like cam newton? is he like jeff george? so far from what ive seen he is acting an awful like jeff george. and the "luck" fans are all over luck like jeff's fans were even irsay its just really really erie

[UndecidedFrog]

fans have influence over the teams they support and dont say they dont. between ticket sales and merchendise sales they have alot of influence.

how do you think certain players get a bad rep? its fans that start it.

what has luck done for this organization? luck fans have manning gone, and luck as the GOAT already. manning is not gone, and luck is still a college player. what do we really know about andrew luck? is he like peyton? is he like cam newton? is he like jeff george? so far from what ive seen he is acting an awful like jeff george. and the "luck" fans are all over luck like jeff's fans were even irsay its just really really erie

The day the GM or an owner takes what fans want into consideration over roster, draft and contract decisions, it is the day the team implodes.

There are much more football-knowledgeable people who staff the FO than fans, as apparent in some of these posts.

[dgambill]

fans have influence over the teams they support and dont say they dont. between ticket sales and merchendise sales they have alot of influence.

how do you think certain players get a bad rep? its fans that start it.

what has luck done for this organization? luck fans have manning gone, and luck as the GOAT already. manning is not gone, and luck is still a college player. what do we really know about andrew luck? is he like peyton? is he like cam newton? is he like jeff george? so far from what ive seen he is acting an awful like jeff george. and the "luck" fans are all over luck like jeff's fans were even irsay its just really really erie

Alright...first off I want Peyton back just as much as you but Luck has done nothing to run him out of town or do anything but say all the right things. To make a bad guy out of Luck for no reason is really poor taste. I want them both right if the situation is right. I would trade the pick if the situation is right...mostly I want the best decission made for the team and if Peyton goes than ok as long as it is done with some class. I see no reason to throw mud at Andrew or anyone in the thread. I give Luck the benefit of the doubt he will be great and even so that doesn't mean we can't trade the pick if it will make us even better. Who knows someone else may be just as good an option and we get more players but I see no reason to make up stuff or say such negative things about a guy who more than likely will be a Colt moving forward. I don't even have anything negative to say about Jeff George...he was a Colt..so I supported him. I know I am new to posting on the board but I have been a Colt fan since they came to Indy and I really think that you are simply trying to stir up crap with you just throwing out lies and such over the top comments. I would imagine a mod will be here soon because on other boards that would get you suspended.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

This last one was less money, and he has moved it around before, but this one is entirely different. Mark likes to claim thing as fact when it is far from it.

Are you going to change your name since Caldwell has been fired or do you want him fired from Baltimore now too!? lol

[mmcrazylikeafox]

THIS SITUATION IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT!

I don't think any of the situations discussed were ENTIRELY THE SAME! But PM's character and integrity seems to be in question by some in the forums. He is not greedy or selfish and has done great things for the Colts, Indy and fans! He may not restructure but the chance he will is not any less than the chance he wont but IMO leans more towards "he will" based on his character and integrity.

[Kyle]

yuck. i cant dislike your post enough.

That's extremely rude. I am so sick of people like you.

[Kyle]

= myopia

We don't even know if Manning can throw the ball 50 yards down the field right now. And even if he can, and even if he does go to three straight Pro Bowls, what makes you think that Luck's chances of going to the Pro Bowl are that low? You realize that Derek Anderson has been a Pro Bowler? Matt Cassel? Jeff Garcia went four times. Vince Young went twice.

You're saying it's more likely that Luck is essentially a bust than that Manning can't get back to Pro Bowl level and stay there for three years. I don't think you're being realistic. There is consensus on Andrew Luck like there hasn't been on a quarterback since John Elway. Not even Manning had this kind of consensus. Not Carson Palmer. Not Michael Vick. Not Eli Manning. How many Pro Bowls do those #1 picks have between them?

Luck isn't Jamarcus Russell or David Carr. He's going to be good, barring catastrophic injury. Let's just be real. Whether he becomes really good or even great is in the air, but let's not act like we're taking a flier on a quarterback just because we need one. We're not reaching for an iffy prospect.

I was responding to it not being certain that manning will play again. The real point i was trying to make was that no one is certain to do anything.