Irsays Breaking News...wants Peyton Back *if* ((Merged))

[coltsblue1844]

Of course it's not over.

Some things are over. Like Manning's career as a Colt. That's over... This mess isn't over? Nowhere near over.

you should stick to things you actually know a lot about, such as the salary cap lol

[MR. Blueblood]

Don't feel that, but don't like games. Have the meeting before saying your intentions to the press. Get Peyton's thoughts on it first. Be clear and honest that it's not just about health. Don't say money is no problem and then say money is a problem.

There definitely has been a game being played, with both sides jockeying for position. Both sides have done things wrong in this situation, and both sides are to be blamed. I've always thought all along that money is definitely the issue because if not he would've just paid Manning already and it would've been done with. But the more anybody looks at the bigger picture you see that this contract as it stands now is too much for anybody to take on. No team, no matter how desperate, is going to throw large amounts of cash his way so he's taking a pay cut no matter what. Now it's a matter of taking a pay cut to stay here or taking a cut to play somewhere else. Mr. Manning it's your serve.

[FireJimCaldwell]

No, I am not kidding you, and I am no being ignorant.

I fully expect there will be a response to this Irsay PR move from PM's camp.

I did not claim anything about Luck in this thread. Why are you bringing him into this? This is between PM and Irsay.

PM has publicly stated that he would like to retire as a Colt. Irsay is calling him on that. Let's see what happens. If there is agreement, then we will know how much PM values retiring as a Colt. If there is no agreement, we know how much PM values his previous sentiment about retiring as a Colt. Either way, we will know.

All Manning would have to say is "I'm under contract with the Indianapolis Colts"

If he's cut, all he has to say is "The Indianapolis Colts decided to release me, it seems they wished to go in another direction."

[UndecidedFrog]

There is no battle!!! It is clearly the work of the media, wanting a story and creating this "feud" between Peyton and Irsay when they have made it clear their relationship is as good as ever.

1) Eggshells, not a place that is good for healing

2) Politician, campaigning, keep in in house

3) Joint statement....love each other

4) If healthy, PM will be a Colt

5) Medical clearance to play football from neurosurgeons on the fusion

6) Tweet...not cleared by the Colts!

7) PM can be a Colt if he wants to be....

8) If he wants to be means he will agree to restructure contract to reflect the uncertainty about his arm

If the above sequence of events do not represent a PR battle, I don't know what you would consider as one. The above is not the work of the media. The above are direct releases from either PM or Irsay.

[Jules]

Oh boy....not sure what to say.

Irsay will take him back but pay him peanuts is what I am gathering here?

Now the ball is in Peyton's court to say/do something.

Actually, smart PR move by Irsay regardless of how this ends up now.

[MR. Blueblood]

because it's not their money and they aren't the ones who will have to answer for it if they get it wrong.

In fact I would dare say most of those fans would be the ones that if the Colts did pay Manning and it didn't work out would screaming at Irsay for picking up the option without knowing if Manning was fully healthy or not in a few months even though they are calling for him it to do it now.

Also for the record I am not talking about the people who are saying hey I would just like to have Manning back if we can. I think almost everyone feels that way. I am just talking about the people who are blindy saying we should keep Peyton Manning no matter the risk or the money.

Absolutely 100% correct!

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Oh boy....not sure what to say.

Irsay will take him back but pay him peanuts is what I am gathering here?

Now the ball is in Peyton's court to say/do something.

Actually, smart PR move by Irsay regardless of how this ends up now.

That does pretty much sum it up.

[UndecidedFrog]

All Manning would have to say is "I'm under contract with the Indianapolis Colts"

If he's cut, all he has to say is "The Indianapolis Colts decided to release me, it seems they wished to go in another direction."

Yes, firejimcaldwell, that is all PM needs to say, if anything. But if he just sticks with that line, he will lose the PR battle. He will be seen as the selfish player unwilling to renegotiate his contract to account for his uncertain "health".

If PM is the competitor we all know he is, I fully expect a more fleshed out response, delivered through an intermediary, like Condon, that will shift the burden of keeping PM on the team, back onto Irsay.

[MR. Blueblood]

Oh boy....not sure what to say.

Irsay will take him back but pay him peanuts is what I am gathering here?

Now the ball is in Peyton's court to say/do something.

Actually, smart PR move by Irsay regardless of how this ends up now.

I would seriously doubt that the contract would be "peanuts", even before bonuses it's not like he's going to be offered the league minimum. And bottom line is that if Manning is going to be healthy and as great as everybody assumes he will be then he will max out the bonuses and make a ton of cash and laugh all the way to the bank. Both sides are happy in that situation, Irsay gets his insurance and a healthy Manning gets paid. Where's the downside?

[Jules]

I was reading about this on my phone. The rumor a while ago per Schefter about Peyton being open to having another team pay him by performance and little to no guaranteed money up front......

I heard Irsay said he is open to doing that with Manning as well.

Which is a smart move to say this by Irsay but also a cold business move since he knows very well he is taking a QB with the first pick and Peyton knows it's Luck.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes, firejimcaldwell, that is all PM needs to say, if anything. But if he just sticks with that line, he will lose the PR battle. He will be seen as the selfish player unwilling to renegotiated his contract to account for his uncertain "health".

If PM is the competitor we all know he is, I fully expect a more fleshed out response, delivered through an intermediary, like Condon, that will shift the burden of keeping PM on the team, back onto Irsay.

I'm still under the thought process that it can't be renegotiated. The release & resign is obviously a different scenario. Truth be told, if I were Manning this latest hypocritical jab by Irsay might be enough for me to sign a league minimum contract elsewhere. Sure he could sign the same thing here, but why would he want to at this point?

[UndecidedFrog]

you should stick to things you actually know a lot about, such as the salary cap lol

That is unfair, and uncalled for.

We all have opinions, and are allowed to express them.

[Jules]

I would seriously doubt that the contract would be "peanuts", even before bonuses it's not like he's going to be offered the league minimum. And bottom line is that if Manning is going to be healthy and as great as everybody assumes he will be then he will max out the bonuses and make a ton of cash and laugh all the way to the bank. Both sides are happy in that situation, Irsay gets his insurance and a healthy Manning gets paid. Where's the downside?

You are going from being the highest paid player in the league a year ago when healthy according to Irsay to now taking a pay cut.

Regardless, things have changed a lot. Irsay will not and should not give Peyton a ton of money based on the surgeries.

I guess much depends on Peyton too. How long he wants to play. Does he want to play for a contender? Is he okay with the Colts spending the first pick on Luck and having him groomed for the future?

There is a lot Peyton has to agree with here as well. I remember him once saying he did not love QBs picked first in the draft to sit too long.

[Jules]

I'm still under the thought process that it can't be renegotiated. The release & resign is obviously a different scenario. Truth be told, if I were Manning this latest hypocritical jab by Irsay might be enough for me to sign a league minimum contract elsewhere. Sure he could sign the same thing here, but why would he want to at this point?

This is what I am wondering. I would love if Peyton did sign for little here. But, why would he at this point given the circumstances? I almost feel as if he is trying to get Peyton to quit at times with the Colts.

I could be wrong but I am not sensing the fairy tale ending some are? If it all works out with a cheaper Manning/Luck then great. I am not sensing it might but I am often wrong.

[Coltsagent]

I'm still under the thought process that it can't be renegotiated. The release & resign is obviously a different scenario. Truth be told, if I were Manning this latest hypocritical jab by Irsay might be enough for me to sign a league minimum contract elsewhere. Sure he could sign the same thing here, but why would he want to at this point?

Why wouldn't he? His family is here, with kids, his charities with a hospital named after him, his QB and running backs coach (and former coach as OC) and an offense where he is allowed to call his own plays, and oh yea a fan base that yells "I Love You Peyton" at the top of their lungs during the NFL Honors show.

[MR. Blueblood]

You are going from being the highest paid player in the league a year ago when healthy according to Irsay to now taking a pay cut.

Regardless, things have changed a lot. Irsay will not and should not give Peyton a ton of money based on the surgeries.

I guess much depends on Peyton too. How long he wants to play. Does he want to play for a contender? Is he okay with the Colts spending the first pick on Luck and having him groomed for the future?

There is a lot Peyton has to agree with here as well. I remember him once saying he did not love QBs picked first in the draft to sit too long.

That's true, every word of it. The kicker of it all is that both sides are dealing with an unprecedented injury. An injury that could heal just fine (and if so how long until it happens) or an injury that could continue to plague his throwing arm with lack of strength and feeling, Seeing as how the arm should be a QB's money maker I can understand such the huge fall from grace $$$ wise.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm still under the thought process that it can't be renegotiated. The release & resign is obviously a different scenario. Truth be told, if I were Manning this latest hypocritical jab by Irsay might be enough for me to sign a league minimum contract elsewhere. Sure he could sign the same thing here, but why would he want to at this point?

We both know that the Colts would be at a disadvantage (compared to other NFL teams) when it comes to negotiating another deal after he is cut, due to the salary cap hit ($10.4).

I'm not sure the NFLPA will be quiet about a vet like PM accepting league minimum, or even vet minimum.

We will see what happens as events unfold.

At least you and I can agree that the latest communication makes it evident that Irsay will not be paying the $28MM option bonus due March 8, as some manning fans suggest.

[Jules]

We both know that the Colts would be at a disadvantage (compared to other NFL teams) when it comes to negotiating another deal after he is cut, due to the salary cap hit ($10.4).

I'm not sure the NFLPA will be quiet about a vet like PM accepting league minimum, or even vet minimum.

We will see what happens as events unfold.

At least you and I can agree that the latest communication makes it evident that Irsay will not be paying the $28MM option bonus due March 8, as some manning fans suggest.

That much is becoming clear. The 28 million won't happen. How much can happen who knows. It is up to Peyton.

BTW how much would Peyton be making compared to Luck next year if he takes a big pay cut?

[FireJimCaldwell]

This is what I am wondering. I would love if Peyton did sign for little here. But, why would he at this point given the circumstances? I almost feel as if he is trying to get Peyton to quit at times with the Colts.

I could be wrong but I am not sensing the fairy tale ending some are? If it all works out with a cheaper Manning/Luck then great. I am not sensing it might but I am often wrong.

It's not fair for Manning to dictate the draft selection or choice, nor do I expect that he would, but I don't see him wanting anything to do with Luck being on the roster. The first time he throws an interception a portion of the fan base will start screaming for Luck to play.

There is no doubt in my mind that Irsay wants Manning to retire. It is the cleanest ending possible. Manning feels he can return.

I'm not buying the Fairy Tale ending either.

[Jules]

That's true, every word of it. The kicker of it all is that both sides are dealing with an unprecedented injury. An injury that could heal just fine (and if so how long until it happens) or an injury that could continue to plague his throwing arm with lack of strength and feeling, Seeing as how the arm should be a QB's money maker I can understand such the huge fall from grace $$$ wise.

Yep.

Which is kinda why I don't blame Irsay for wanting to pay Peyton so much a year ago. I don't think anyone expected this to happen. We didn't. It caught everyone off guard.

Last year was a healthy Manning just turning 35 who people expected was super man and would never miss a game.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

This is what I am wondering. I would love if Peyton did sign for little here. But, why would he at this point given the circumstances? I almost feel as if he is trying to get Peyton to quit at times with the Colts.

I could be wrong but I am not sensing the fairy tale ending some are? If it all works out with a cheaper Manning/Luck then great. I am not sensing it might but I am often wrong.

Posted it a long time ago that Irsay was like a guy wanting to break up with a woman and doing everything instead to make sure she did it instead. I've certainly had that happen to me, don't know about you Jules, but it's a typically guy move

[Jules]

It's not fair for Manning to dictate the draft selection or choice, nor do I expect that he would, but I don't see him wanting anything to do with Luck being on the roster. The first time he throws an interception a portion of the fan base will start screaming for Luck to play.

There is no doubt in my mind that Irsay wants Manning to retire. It is the cleanest ending possible. Manning feels he can return.

I'm not buying the Fairy Tale ending either.

Call me crazy but I often felt the Rob Lowe tweet was a hint from Irsay that did not go over well with Peyton.

Part of what I read tonight had Irsay speaking about the long term health issues and risks.

Yes I do think Irsay has wanted Peyton to retire. I am not sure Peyton will though. He is going to want to try to get back on the field. And no I am sure he would much rather the Colts spend a few first rounders on WRs or o lineman or anything to help the team win now.

But, we pretty much know Irsay is taking Luck.

[UndecidedFrog]

BTW how much would Peyton be making compared to Luck next year if he takes a big pay cut?

Current PM contract= $90MM/5 years, or an average of $18MM per year

Luck contract (assuming 5% increase of Cam Newton's contract) = $23.1MM/4 years or an average of $5.775MM per year

How much of a discount do you see PM agreeing to?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Why wouldn't he? His family is here, with kids, his charities with a hospital named after him, his QB and running backs coach (and former coach as OC) and an offense where he is allowed to call his own plays, and oh yea a fan base that yells "I Love You Peyton" at the top of their lungs during the NFL Honors show.

All fair points, well, except the one about Clyde Christensen(not a selling point in my book). The HC/OC might not give him carte blanche like Caldwell did. There is that portion of the fan base, but there is also a portion of the fan base that will scream PUT LUCK IN, as soon as he throws an interception. Look around there are already people that him gone.

Just not feeling the positive vibe that some are.

[Jules]

Posted it a long time ago that Irsay was like a guy wanting to break up with a woman and doing everything instead to make sure she did it instead. I've certainly had that happen to me, don't know about you Jules, but it's a typically guy move

Yep been there. I think as women we see things at times lol. This is why this can be so tough to watch. You would rather Irsay just break up with him but he won't based on how much they have been together. Irsay also does not want to tick off the friends and family.

Andrew Luck is the younger woman in this situation.

[Jules]

Current PM contract= $90MM/5 years, or an average of $18MM per year

Luck contract (assuming 5% increase of Cam Newton's contract) = $23.1MM/4 years or an average of $5.775MM per year

How much of a discount do you see PM agreeing to?

Not sure at all. What do you think? The rumor per Shefter was Peyton was willing to let another team pay him by performance or something with little up front......

What about the Colts?

[GrizzColt]

What if Luck ends up being just as good as Peyton? It's not unreasonable to think it could happen. Dilfer said he's the BEST he's ever seen coming out of college. Steve Young said he has Stanford season tickets and says he is amazed at what the does. Kiper graded him the 2nd best ever and higher than Peyton. What if Luck is as good as predicted? You have to look at that.

The reasonable man looks at Luck and says given all the evidence, the odds are great that he will excel as an NFL QB. The fool says Luck's going to be a bust because he watched a few videos and feels he sees weaknesses that the scouts "somehow" missed. Yes, the fool somehow has learned more on 3 You Tube highlight videos than the professional scout has learned: 1 watching Luck live 2. watching game tapes over and over and over 3. talked to coaches who have seen him 3. Talked to coaches who have coached him 4. talked to players who have played with him 5. who actually know what to look for in the mechanics of a QB .etc.....Don't feel bad, fool. There are many more just like you. Most are on message boards, some will be timing players at the combine and drafting players with fast times and mediocre tape.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Call me crazy but I often felt the Rob Lowe tweet was a hint from Irsay that did not go over well with Peyton.

Part of what I read tonight had Irsay speaking about the long term health issues and risks.

Yes I do think Irsay has wanted Peyton to retire. I am not sure Peyton will though. He is going to want to try to get back on the field. And no I am sure he would much rather the Colts spend a few first rounders on WRs or o lineman or anything to help the team win now.

But, we pretty much know Irsay is taking Luck.

I think quite a few things have ruffled Manning's feathers. I don't think he's been in the proverbial loop on a lost of decisions, and that's not me trying to say that he should have the ability to voice an opinion, but at least knowledge before the media gets it. I do agree that Sodapop was an issue. I think he's known for awhile that his time here is done, and he wants to move to the next step.

[chad72]

When is the start of the next NFL year? Will either side benefit in any way to postpone the March 8th date by a month, NFL year wise, or contract re-negotiation wise?

[MR. Blueblood]

Not sure at all. What do you think? The rumor per Shefter was Peyton was willing to let another team pay him by performance or something with little up front......

What about the Colts?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll throw in my .02 for what it might be worth. I see the deal first offered being about half of the original amount with the other half being made available by maxing out the various bonuses that would be put in. If you're Manning, your biggest hesitation on something like this would be the thought of them pulling you when you're about to hit those bonuses so they didn't have to pay you. I really would think the people would storm the Irsay castle with pitchforks and torches if that happened, seeing as how he would be performing at a high level. That, however, is something I wouldn't see Irsay doing for just that reason.

[FireJimCaldwell]

We both know that the Colts would be at a disadvantage (compared to other NFL teams) when it comes to negotiating another deal after he is cut, due to the salary cap hit ($10.4).

I'm not sure the NFLPA will be quiet about a vet like PM accepting league minimum, or even vet minimum.

We will see what happens as events unfold.

At least you and I can agree that the latest communication makes it evident that Irsay will not be paying the $28MM option bonus due March 8, as some manning fans suggest.

I'm not sure the NFLPA has a leg to stand on in this case. He is coming off multiple surgeries. I wouldn't view it as a disservice. It's easy to offer an opinion of how one might act if in the same place, like saying, I'd take less, to build a team, etc, but that would be like the CFO saying pay me less say we can get a better Senior VP over advertising.

I've written the 28 million off long ago.. I might kill over if it were paid it would shock me so much.

[Jules]

When is the start of the next NFL year? Will either side benefit in any way to postpone the March 8th date by a month, NFL year wise, or contract re-negotiation wise?

Whats the point? Sometimes I wonder. If Irsay and Peyton don't see eye to eye then either split or get back IMO.

Poop or get off the pot is my new opinion.

This beating around the bush junk is getting old.

[FireJimCaldwell]

When is the start of the next NFL year? Will either side benefit in any way to postpone the March 8th date by a month, NFL year wise, or contract re-negotiation wise?

March 12th is the start of the new year.

In my opinion it can't be postponed. The NFL/NFLPA haven't formally addressed it, but based on the CBA, I don't see how it can be moved. To me, the Colts would be the benefactor if it were postponed.

[UndecidedFrog]

Not sure at all. What do you think? The rumor per Shefter was Peyton was willing to let another team pay him by performance or something with little up front......

What about the Colts?

Current PM contract = $18/year

Current Franchise tag for QB = $14.4MM for this year

Sam Bradford = $13MM/year

Aaron Rodgers = $10.833MM /year

Tom Brady = $15.7MM/year

Alex Smith = $5/year

Tavaris Jackson = $4MM/year

Vince Young = $4MM/year

Michael Vick = $16MM/year

Take your pick.

[runthepost]

could peyton restructure his contract before the bonus??

What happens if we sign peyton to a 2yr deal and he ends up having 2 career years (like 04) what do we do?

[LightninMax]

It seems this thread proves that there are 1001 way to interpret the individual tweets, interviews, and statements. There are as many ways to interpret the intent and/or purpose of the the same.

Many of the statements that so many take as so surely posturing may in fact not be that at all. Each poster is right and entitled to their opinion but there is not one post in this thread that can be considered fact as intended by those that are being second guessed and interpreted.

Every single comment by PM & JI have been after hours of daily conjecture by tens if not hundreds of individuals with platforms of the pen or microphones. It is equally as likely that PM & JI have felt the need to respond to this obsessive ridiculousness.

Then again, they could be in close communitcation and playing with the pundits as the toys they are.

I believe Peyton Manning has always 100% demonstrated himself to be a class and wise individual. Likewise, Jim Irsay has stood out as a class and experienced owner. After all he had a first hand observation of what not to do.

I trust they will make the right decisions at the right time regardless of what you, me, or any tv personality has to think.

I still believe that a strong armed Peyton Manning is the quickest way to become a Super Bowl contender.

[Coltsagent]

All fair points, well, except the one about Clyde Christensen(not a selling point in my book). The HC/OC might not give him carte blanche like Caldwell did. There is that portion of the fan base, but there is also a portion of the fan base that will scream PUT LUCK IN, as soon as he throws an interception. Look around there are already people that him gone.

Just not feeling the positive vibe that some are.

Clyde was Dungy's good friend, he was the one he went on long walks with before games. He is also the one I see Peyton many times congratulating first on the sidelines after a score or win. Clyde for many years was in charge of third-down and red zone packages, which is really where the game is won or lost. I believe there is a really good relationship there and would make Peyton much more comfortable than an entirely new QB coach and new city and a new building.

[chad72]

Whats the point? Sometimes I wonder. If Irsay and Peyton don't see eye to eye then either split or get back IMO.

Poop or get off the pot is my new opinion.

This beating around the bush junk is getting old.

If, as a fan, I know that Peyton is 80-90% and can show considerable improvement in a month, I would think the organization and the fans would want to give him that one last chance. Besides, Irsay would have no qualms in paying the original contract if Peyton indeed can show he can make all the throws. I think the upside is greater than the downside, IMO.

[Jules]

Can we get Eli for the 28 million?

I kid. I kid........

Sorry.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not sure at all. What do you think? The rumor per Shefter was Peyton was willing to let another team pay him by performance or something with little up front......

What about the Colts?

A lot of people seem to take that comment as Manning will to play for a cheaper deal elsewhere.

The way I read it was that he would try to remove risk from the equation. Risk in this case is bonus money.

The contract would have to start with a base salary. The league minimum for a player with Manning's experience is 925k.

The next tool could be a roster bonus, due the opening week. If he's healthy its paid and allocated in 2012. This could range any where from 3 million to 12-15...

Incentives have been thrown about, but the CBA is tricky with those. Some are considered likely to be earned and generally accounted against the cap. This could be set on a # wins, % of plays, games, etc. The unknown of this is that the CBA language says "previous year". In Manning's case would they look at his previous year, or the team's previous year. In my opinion it would be the team's previous year. If the incentive is not likely to be earned, like say paying him 5 million for winning the Super Bowl, that would be accounted for after it is achieved.

The part that puts the Colts at a disadvantage is that Manning is going to count 10.4 million against our cap whether he's here or not. If you add the 925k, he's up over 11 million. then when you add a roster bonus, or any incentive it's only going to continue to grow.