My Numbers Say We Are In Really Good Cap Shape For 2012

[BmoreColt]

TY for providing the new Freeney and Mathis contract terms.

So,,,,continuing our mock cap 2012 analysis:

11) Sign Mathis (FA) to new 3 year deal, $10MM per year, with a $10MM signing bonus = average per year compensation at $13.33MM

Add to 2012 cap: $13.33MM

Now we have 28 players at $100.88 MM salary cap.

12) Restructure Freeney to new 3 year deal, $10MM per year, with a $12MM signing bonus = average per year compensation at $14MM

Replace the $19.035MM cap hit with a $19MM cap hit ($5MM acceleration of prorated bonuses from previous contract + $14MM new contract)

Now we have 28 players at $100.84MM salary cap.

Add in the remainder of 25 players to fill in the 53-man roster at league minimum, and we have 53 players at $110.59MM of the cap.

Any more changes you would like to make to your mock roster?

What about Addai and Clark?

Addai's current contract is:

He is in the middle of his 3 year contract that pays him upfront bonus of $5.58MM and annual salaries of $2.45; $2.9; $3.07

Clark is also in the middle of his 3 year contract that pays him upfront bonus of $8.37MM and annual salaries of $4.2; $4.53; $5.33

BMore Colt, I'm having great fun doing this mock with you. I hope you are too.

I am enjoying this, I have a whole new respect for you working with me and sharing some of your great cap knowledge'

[BmoreColt]

So far, and in summary of your mock cap 2012:

Your team has re-signed Mathis, restructured Freeney and Manning

Your team has cut Bullitt, Brackett, Moala, Mookie Johnson, Painter, and Snow

Your team has allowed the following FAs to leave: Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler.

You now have 28 players under contract at $100.84MM salary cap.

Add in the remainder of 25 players at league minimum to bring up your team to the 53 man roster with $110.59MM to the 2012 cap.

The 2012 team salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM

I think you have some holes to fill at LS, WR, TE, OL, LB(?). And you have about $10.5MM to spend.

We have to re work Clarke and addai to lower them both. I need to structure Wayne and garçon, as well, but there's not much cap room..

[Tark The Shark]

I was born in 1992 and I remember watching the Colts in 2002 when they went 6-10 and I love watching the history of the Colts and the QBs that came before Manning and how the franchise wasn't the same since coming to Indy before Jim "Captain Comeback" Harbaugh took us to the AFC Championship in 1995 (I believe). I love Peyton and how enjoying watching him over the years, like the season when he had the 121.0 QB rating and threw 49 touchdown passes. And all the magnificant throws to Marvin, Reggie, Stokley, Pollard, Clark. I think what I am trying to get at is that us fans should enjoy the god times we had with Manning and we all know how important Manning was to the franchise and I don't believe any of us want to throw him out of town. It would be a perfect scenario if we could have a healthy Manning and Andrew Luck behind him for a few years and possibly have Peyton win another SB or two. But after all these years I see Manning as the alpha male and if I was him, I wouldn't want my successor waiting to take my job. But it seems like it was the perfect storm with Andrew Luck coming in and we got the first pick because Peyton got short-changed by the lockout. I hate the idea of losing Manning but if so, I am happy for the future with Andrew Luck or possibly Robert Griffin III. As a fan I will shed a tear if we cut Manning but I will be excited for a possible heir to the throne in Luck or Griffin. I don't condone with how Irsay has handled all this but in the end, I will support the Colts no matter what.

[UndecidedFrog]

We have to re work Clarke and addai to lower them both. I need to structure Wayne and garçon, as well, but there's not much cap room..

Yes, that is a common problem. LOL.

I think this exercise, thus far has been a useful one. Not many people get into this level of detail, and don't appreciate how difficult it is to stay under the cap while building a competitive team. I know of many fans who wave their hands and make nebulous claims that it will all work out without testing the details with the red-face test, while adding various expensive FAs left and right.

[Tark The Shark]

and also I am loving all the cap explanations, I wasn't sure how we were doing in the cap. I do say it is time to part with Dallas because it is turning into Bob Sanders situation. And Tamme seems like he could be a good replacement for Clark. Same goes with Brackett. How would we be if we cut Peyton, signed Andrew Luck, cut Clark, and Brackett and I apologize if this has already been explained earlier, i just skimmed through this thread briefly.

[BmoreColt]

Yes, that is a common problem. LOL.

I think this exercise, thus far has been a useful one. Not many people get into this level of detail, and don't appreciate how difficult it is to stay under the cap while building a competitive team. I know of many fans who wave their hands and make nebulous claims that it will all work out without testing the details with the red-face test, while adding various expensive FAs left and right.

The problem is trying to convince people to take less than maximum for the good of the team. Manning would renegotiate, I heard recently polian claims somehow that deal can be reworked without the drastic dead cap hit. Freeney won't want less... Wayne wants to get paid, Mathis and garçon need deals, I would recommend 1-3 quality free agents. Redding/Brant DE, Franklin NT, maybe a G like Jake Scott, need about 10 million in cap space for the 3.

[BmoreColt]

and also I am loving all the cap explanations, I wasn't sure how we were doing in the cap. I do say it is time to part with Dallas because it is turning into Bob Sanders situation. And Tamme seems like he could be a good replacement for Clark. Same goes with Brackett. How would we be if we cut Peyton, signed Andrew Luck, cut Clark, and Brackett and I apologize if this has already been explained earlier, i just skimmed through this thread briefly.

The big savings are in Freeney and Manning, like you I'm not willing to let him go if healthy. So thus we are at the debacle.

[Tark The Shark]

Well in the end I do believe we end up keeping Freeney at the same contract because Pagano and Manusky will definitely want to keep Mathis and Freeney for the pass rush. But if we can convince Freeney's agent that if we can restructure his deal it will keep Mathis and less on the shoulders for Freeney, maybe we can do that. Wishful thinking probably, but who knows?

[UndecidedFrog]

and also I am loving all the cap explanations, I wasn't sure how we were doing in the cap. I do say it is time to part with Dallas because it is turning into Bob Sanders situation. And Tamme seems like he could be a good replacement for Clark. Same goes with Brackett. How would we be if we cut Peyton, signed Andrew Luck, cut Clark, and Brackett and I apologize if this has already been explained earlier, i just skimmed through this thread briefly.

Tarken,

I recommend you read post #218 of this thread. That will give you an idea of where we started and where we are. As soon as BMoreColt and I have finished with his mock cap, I can do yours.

As BMoreColt has suggested, the largest chunks of the cap space are Freeney ($19) and Manning ($17).

The total team cap space for 2012 is projected to be $121.2MM and the Colts need to be at or under that figure.

Feel free to look at the source website I cited in post #218 to determine which players you want to cut, restructure, etc.

[UndecidedFrog]

The problem is trying to convince people to take less than maximum for the good of the team. Manning would renegotiate, I heard recently polian claims somehow that deal can be reworked without the drastic dead cap hit. Freeney won't want less... Wayne wants to get paid, Mathis and garçon need deals, I would recommend 1-3 quality free agents. Redding/Brant DE, Franklin NT, maybe a G like Jake Scott, need about 10 million in cap space for the 3.

Too many people want money, and there is only so much we can spend of Mr. Irsay's money given NFL cap rules.

[BmoreColt]

Too many people want money, and there is only so much we can spend of Mr. Irsay's money given NFL cap rules.

Let's try to cut Addai and Clarkes numbers, by at least 3-5 million total cap hit. Wayne for a very similar contract as before with a slight pay raise I think 7 million cap hit for Wayne 3 for Garçon. It seems not everyone can be resigned like I originally thought.... Not good

[Ramblinwreck7]

Let's try to cut Addai and Clarkes numbers, by at least 3-5 million total cap hit. Wayne for a very similar contract as before with a slight pay raise I think 7 million cap hit for Wayne 3 for Garçon. It seems not everyone can be resigned like I originally thought.... Not good

Everyone can be resigned, it just takes making the players happy and giving out contracts of what the players are worth. I don't really pay attention to all this cap stuff, but it would hurt if we do draft Andrew Luck, I want to say $5+ million dollars a year? Rookie contracts may have gone down quite a bit, but that's still a lot. We would have to save $5 million dollars somewhere. That's one of the reasons why I want to trade the pick, not just because of the talented players that we could get in return.

The 2 guys that would probably be a good idea to restructure their contracts are Dallas Clark and Dwight Freeney. Clark could take a little less because he's been injured lately, and Freeney could be extended. If we keep Peyton Manning and get the colts into top shape by next season, then Reggie Wayne would love to be back, as well as Jeff Saturday.

[Tark The Shark]

Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Mathis, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler.

Anderson, Brayton (both good players but just didn't seem to fit our system, but did make good plays), Diem (if I had a nickel for everytime he had a false start or holding penalty I could own the Indianapolis Colts), Foster (good player but small and is coming off a horrible injury), Gonzalez (good first couple of years, injury bug hit + emergence of Garcon and Collie = expendable), Muir (didn't see him at all this year), Richard (same as Muir), Toudouze (same as previous). All those guys I think we should cut. Garcon (most explosive player we have on offense), Lacey (because we have nobody except for Rucker who could replace him), Mathis (best player on defense), Saturday (if Manning stays, I see Saturday staying), Tamme (like a young Dallas Clark), Wayne (best WR we have), Wheeler (solid tackler which is rare in our defense). All the guys in the previous sentence we keep. What would our salary cap look like with my scenario or cutting Manning, drafting Luck, and keeping Freeney at same salary

[GoColts8818]

Everyone can be resigned, it just takes making the players happy and giving out contracts of what the players are worth. I don't really pay attention to all this cap stuff, but it would hurt if we do draft Andrew Luck, I want to say $5+ million dollars a year? Rookie contracts may have gone down quite a bit, but that's still a lot. We would have to save $5 million dollars somewhere. That's one of the reasons why I want to trade the pick, not just because of the talented players that we could get in return.

The 2 guys that would probably be a good idea to restructure their contracts are Dallas Clark and Dwight Freeney. Clark could take a little less because he's been injured lately, and Freeney could be extended. If we keep Peyton Manning and get the colts into top shape by next season, then Reggie Wayne would love to be back, as well as Jeff Saturday.

Rookies are slotted now. It doesn't matter who we take with the top pick it's going to cost about the same. Frankly if we trade the pick and pick up more picks we would end up paying more for rookies as a whole than we would if we just used to the top pick on a QB.

[UndecidedFrog]

Let's try to cut Addai and Clarkes numbers, by at least 3-5 million total cap hit. Wayne for a very similar contract as before with a slight pay raise I think 7 million cap hit for Wayne 3 for Garçon. It seems not everyone can be resigned like I originally thought.... Not good

OK, so back to your mock cap.

13) Cut Addai to what? He is due $2.9 in 2012 and $3.07 in 2013. His 2012 cap hit is now at $4.76. If you cut him outright, the acceleration of prorated bonus will hit (2x 1.86 = $3.72), and you will save about $1MM to the cap, but then you will need to shop for another RB...are you thinking draft one/UDFA?

14) Cut Clark to what? He is due $4.53 in 2012 and $5.33 in 2013. His 2012 cap hit is now at $7.32. If you cut him outright, the acceleration of prorated bonus will hit (2x 2.79= $5.58), and you will save about $1.74 to the cap, but then you will need to sign Tamme, or shop for another TE..

If you want to restructure either, you will again have to provide me terms of their new contracts:

a) $ upfront for bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year.

15) Wayne's last contract was 5 years for $32.56MM or an average of $6.51 a year. It was structured as $10.42MM bonus with salaries of $3; 3.5; 4.22; 5.47; 5.95.

Last year Wayne hit the 2011 cap at $8.03MM. With that in mind, what are the terms you want to give him?

16) Garcon's last contract was 4 years for $1.80MM or an average of $0.45 a year. It was structured as $0.09MM bonus with salaries of $0.30; 0.39; 0.47; 0.56.

Last year Wayne hit the 2011 cap at $0.58MM. With that in mind, what are the terms you want to give him? I think his value has risen substantially, even though he has rock hands.

[UndecidedFrog]

Everyone can be resigned, it just takes making the players happy and giving out contracts of what the players are worth. I don't really pay attention to all this cap stuff, but it would hurt if we do draft Andrew Luck, I want to say $5+ million dollars a year? Rookie contracts may have gone down quite a bit, but that's still a lot. We would have to save $5 million dollars somewhere. That's one of the reasons why I want to trade the pick, not just because of the talented players that we could get in return.

The 2 guys that would probably be a good idea to restructure their contracts are Dallas Clark and Dwight Freeney. Clark could take a little less because he's been injured lately, and Freeney could be extended. If we keep Peyton Manning and get the colts into top shape by next season, then Reggie Wayne would love to be back, as well as Jeff Saturday.

No, if you read post #218 of this thread, you will see that not everyone can be re-signed and still be under the cap.

The 15 FAs accounted for $34.94MM of the 2011 cap.

The 31 contracted players for 2012 account for $88.02 of the 2012 cap

Add 7 players to bring the team up to 53 at league minimum, add 2.73MM to the 2012 cap.

Even assuming the 15 FAs can be had in 2012 at the same cap price as 2011, we would be over the 2012 cap by about $4.5MM.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Rookies are slotted now. It doesn't matter who we take with the top pick it's going to cost about the same. Frankly if we trade the pick and pick up more picks we would end up paying more for rookies as a whole than we would if we just used to the top pick on a QB.

I was thinking about that. A good trade down in the 2012 NFL draft would involve the #4, #22, and # 36 picks from the Cleveland Browns. Those are just picks involving this next draft.

The salaries for these picks were

# 1 - Cam Newton - 4year $22 million

# 4 - A.J. Green - 4 year $19.6 million

# 22 - Anthony Castonzo - 4 year $8 million

# 36 - Colin Kaepernick - 4 year $5.22 million

The 4, 22, and 36 picks would add up to around $8.205 million dollars a year. Cam Newton received $5.5 million dollars a year in his contract, which is $2.705 million dollars less that the other picks. It may cost more, but you wouldn't have to sign as many quality free agents as you would if you just kept the #1 pick. If you include those expensive additions, then it saves at least a little money to trade the #1 pick.

[Ramblinwreck7]

No, if you read post #218 of this thread, you will see that not everyone can be re-signed and still be under the cap.

The 15 FAs accounted for $34.94MM of the 2011 cap.

The 31 contracted players for 2012 account for $88.02 of the 2012 cap

Add 7 players to bring the team up to 53 at league minimum, add 2.73MM to the 2012 cap.

Even assuming the 15 FAs can be had in 2012 at the same cap price as 2011, we would be over the 2012 cap by about $4.5MM.

Yeah, but everyone wouldn't cots the same and some contracts could be reworked like I said, such as Clark and Freeney.

[UndecidedFrog]

Anderson, Brayton (both good players but just didn't seem to fit our system, but did make good plays), Diem (if I had a nickel for everytime he had a false start or holding penalty I could own the Indianapolis Colts), Foster (good player but small and is coming off a horrible injury), Gonzalez (good first couple of years, injury bug hit + emergence of Garcon and Collie = expendable), Muir (didn't see him at all this year), Richard (same as Muir), Toudouze (same as previous). All those guys I think we should cut. Garcon (most explosive player we have on offense), Lacey (because we have nobody except for Rucker who could replace him), Mathis (best player on defense), Saturday (if Manning stays, I see Saturday staying), Tamme (like a young Dallas Clark), Wayne (best WR we have), Wheeler (solid tackler which is rare in our defense). All the guys in the previous sentence we keep. What would our salary cap look like with my scenario or cutting Manning, drafting Luck, and keeping Freeney at same salary

You don't need to tell me who you don't want to re-sign as FAs.

All I need is a list of FAs you do want to re-sign, and provide me with the details as to the terms of the new contracts you will provide them:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each of those years.

If you cut Manning now (before paying the option bonus) the cap hit to 2012 will reduce from $17MM to $10.4MM, a net cap savings of $6.6 in 2012($18 in 2013, $19 in 2014, $20 in 2015)

If you draft anyone at the #1 overall pick, you can expect a 2012 cap hit of $4.2MM ($5.2 in 2013, $6.3 in 2014, $7.4 in 2015)

Freeney will hit the 2012 cap at $19.035MM, and will become a FA in 2013.

[UndecidedFrog]

Yeah, but everyone wouldn't cots the same and some contracts could be reworked like I said, such as Clark and Freeney.

Good luck on getting them to take less money.

[WoolMagnet]

Thanks BlueShoe and FireJimCaldwell! I really appreciate your information and diligence regarding all the intriciaties(sp?) of the NFL Salary Cap. Indy is in better shape then I thought!

Yea, thanks from me too!

I've been wondering where we were at.

It seems that we're in better shape than I thought.

Hey! Some GOOD news!

Who'd have believed THAT?

[Superman]

We can only safely assume these things if you can provide me the details of how PM and Freeney will restructure. I will need your assumptions on:

a) $ upfront bonus money

b) # years of contract

c) salary for each year of the contract.

Please identify which of the 15 FAs you want to re-sign and provide the details (a, b, c) so that I can input the numbers,

Yes, the picture is accurate. We will be over the permitted cap space, if you assume we get all our FAs to re-sign at their 2011 cap hit numbers.

We are about $20MM under the cap space if we assume we get none of our FAs back. Here is where the rubber hits the road...which ones do you want back, and how are you going to pay them? Once you can provide this information to me, I can tell you the impact on the cap space.

I'm talking macro; you're talking micro.

It sounds pretty certain that Irsay isn't going to pick up the option on Manning's contract as it currently stands. Since it seems like they can't renegotiate the option, then we're looking at a dead cap hit of $10.4 million (unless something changes and the option can be renegotiated). That's $6.6 million right there. Whether another deal is worked out for Manning remains to be seen, but it seems unlikely at this point. Possible, but unlikely. I'm assuming just a $10.4 million cap hit.

I can't imagine keeping Freeney on his current contract for the entire season, not at $19 million to the cap. I figure that as to come down to at least $10 million. That's another $9 million right there. So the cap hit for Manning and Freeney combined would probably wind up being around $17 million, not $36 million. That's over 25% of the cap, to two players. Insanity. I think we'd sooner see Manning at $17 million and Luck at $5 million. So yeah, I'm working under the assumption that something gets done with both of their contracts; Manning next month, Freeney sometime during training camp, at the latest.

To the bolded, that's a ridiculous assumption. When has any team with 15 free agents ever had them all back at the same cap numbers as before? I mentioned in another thread that we could be looking at Garcon, Mathis, Tamme, Wheeler, and maybe Brayton coming back. The rest, I think, are gone, save for one or two on smaller contracts. And I'm including Mathis even though he's probably gone, too. I don't know what kind of contracts those four or five would be getting from us, but if they can't be worked into the constraints we need them to be, then they'll walk. Obviously, because as you say, bringing everyone back can't work.

So yeah, if you figure everything is going to stay the same as it was last season, then we're burning in salary cap heck. But we're really more in salary cap purgatory, just waiting for some decisions to be made. It's not as bad as I originally assumed, or as bad as people claimed it was. Manning and Freeney will be addressed. We will keep at least a few of our own free agents, but not on monster contracts, for the most part. By the time we finish the draft, we won't have a ton of cap space, but if we release/trade a few of vets (Clark, Addai, Brackett, Bullitt, and likely Manning), we'll free up more space in 2013. The sky isn't falling.

[BmoreColt]

Everyone can be resigned, it just takes making the players happy and giving out contracts of what the players are worth. I don't really pay attention to all this cap stuff, but it would hurt if we do draft Andrew Luck, I want to say $5+ million dollars a year? Rookie contracts may have gone down quite a bit, but that's still a lot. We would have to save $5 million dollars somewhere. That's one of the reasons why I want to trade the pick, not just because of the talented players that we could get in return.

The 2 guys that would probably be a good idea to restructure their contracts are Dallas Clark and Dwight Freeney. Clark could take a little less because he's been injured lately, and Freeney could be extended. If we keep Peyton Manning and get the colts into top shape by next season, then Reggie Wayne would love to be back, as well as Jeff Saturday.

You know I'm with you bro, but at this point, they are taking Luck, so we need to play cap mocks to make it work. Surprisingly Luck only counts 1 million more against the cap then what the Colts had at QB last year. Colts need two free agents, Redding or Bryant for DE or both and a NT Franklin or McKinney. Maybe bring back G Jake Scott cheap too. So that's about 10 million in free cap space needed.

[BmoreColt]

OK, so back to your mock cap.

13) Cut Addai to what? He is due $2.9 in 2012 and $3.07 in 2013. His 2012 cap hit is now at $4.76. If you cut him outright, the acceleration of prorated bonus will hit (2x 1.86 = $3.72), and you will save about $1MM to the cap, but then you will need to shop for another RB...are you thinking draft one/UDFA?

14) Cut Clark to what? He is due $4.53 in 2012 and $5.33 in 2013. His 2012 cap hit is now at $7.32. If you cut him outright, the acceleration of prorated bonus will hit (2x 2.79= $5.58), and you will save about $1.74 to the cap, but then you will need to sign Tamme, or shop for another TE..

If you want to restructure either, you will again have to provide me terms of their new contracts:

a) $ upfront for bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year.

15) Wayne's last contract was 5 years for $32.56MM or an average of $6.51 a year. It was structured as $10.42MM bonus with salaries of $3; 3.5; 4.22; 5.47; 5.95.

Last year Wayne hit the 2011 cap at $8.03MM. With that in mind, what are the terms you want to give him?

16) Garcon's last contract was 4 years for $1.80MM or an average of $0.45 a year. It was structured as $0.09MM bonus with salaries of $0.30; 0.39; 0.47; 0.56.

Last year Wayne hit the 2011 cap at $0.58MM. With that in mind, what are the terms you want to give him? I think his value has risen substantially, even though he has rock hands.

13. Addai may need to be cut unless we can figure a way to reduce his cap by one or two million.

14. Clarke two year six million dollar deal two million dollar bonus for playing ball otherwise he too is cut.

15. Wayne something like 3 years 18million with a six million dollar bonus.

16. Garçon 5 year 20 million with a five million bonus.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm talking macro; you're talking micro.

Yes, if it doesn't work micro, it cannot work macro.

It sounds pretty certain that Irsay isn't going to pick up the option on Manning's contract as it currently stands. Since it seems like they can't renegotiate the option, then we're looking at a dead cap hit of $10.4 million (unless something changes and the option can be renegotiated). That's $6.6 million right there. Whether another deal is worked out for Manning remains to be seen, but it seems unlikely at this point. Possible, but unlikely. I'm assuming just a $10.4 million cap hit.

Yes, PM's current contract is one of the largest chunks of the 2012 cap at $17MM. If a renegotiation cannot be worked out, and the Colts cut PM, that will free up $6.6MM to the cap. Some posters have posted that Irsay doesn't care if the new contract hits the 2012 cap even harder than before ($17), as long as the outer years' caps are lessened. At this point in time, PM has not been cut, and there is no information about a new deal, so I will continue holding PM at $17, until you provide me the details of what you think will happen, and then I can run a personalized mock cap for you, like I did for BMoreColt.

I can't imagine keeping Freeney on his current contract for the entire season, not at $19 million to the cap. I figure that as to come down to at least $10 million. That's another $9 million right there. So the cap hit for Manning and Freeney combined would probably wind up being around $17 million, not $36 million. That's over 25% of the cap, to two players. Insanity. I think we'd sooner see Manning at $17 million and Luck at $5 million. So yeah, I'm working under the assumption that something gets done with both of their contracts; Manning next month, Freeney sometime during training camp, at the latest.

Yes, you can figure that it "has to" come down to some number. But unless you can structure a renegotiated agreement that passes the red-face test which Freeney and his agent will find acceptable, this is akin to manufacturing free lunches. I encourage you to attempt to come up with this restructured agreement, noting that Freeney's current contract was purposefully backloaded such that he will be making $14.035MM salary this upcoming season. The other $5MM of the cap hit comes from the last pieces of unamortized prorated bonus. If you want him to forego this money, what kind of new agreement must you provide to entice him to accept? This is where the rubber hits the road.

To the bolded, that's a ridiculous assumption. When has any team with 15 free agents ever had them all back at the same cap numbers as before? I mentioned in another thread that we could be looking at Garcon, Mathis, Tamme, Wheeler, and maybe Brayton coming back. The rest, I think, are gone, save for one or two on smaller contracts. And I'm including Mathis even though he's probably gone, too. I don't know what kind of contracts those four or five would be getting from us, but if they can't be worked into the constraints we need them to be, then they'll walk. Obviously, because as you say, bringing everyone back can't work.

Yes, that bolded assumption may not reflect reality. However, the IF/THEN statement is factually true. Of the 5FAs listed you want back, if you can provide the details (as I have asked for previously) of the contracts you want to provide them, I can run those numbers into your mock cap and see how it comes out. I encourage you to look at this source to see what their previous contracts were to help you structure something that they will accept (otherwise we would be manufacturing free lunches again).

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwight-freeney/

So yeah, if you figure everything is going to stay the same as it was last season, then we're burning in salary cap heck. But we're really more in salary cap purgatory, just waiting for some decisions to be made. It's not as bad as I originally assumed, or as bad as people claimed it was. Manning and Freeney will be addressed. We will keep at least a few of our own free agents, but not on monster contracts, for the most part. By the time we finish the draft, we won't have a ton of cap space, but if we release/trade a few of vets (Clark, Addai, Brackett, Bullitt, and likely Manning), we'll free up more space in 2013. The sky isn't falling.

I am willing to work with you to come up with your personalized mock cap. However, I would need some details as I have previously asked for. Without working out the mock cap, and making sure the details pass the red-face tests, I cannot say we are free and clear of the 2012 cap. The only way I can do that is if we assume another unrealistic assumption that we get no FAs back.

[UndecidedFrog]

13. Addai may need to be cut unless we can figure a way to reduce his cap by one or two million.

14. Clarke two year six million dollar deal two million dollar bonus for playing ball otherwise he too is cut.

15. Wayne something like 3 years 18million with a six million dollar bonus.

16. Garçon 5 year 20 million with a five million bonus.

TY for the additional information.

So.....back to your mock cap.

13) To reduce his cap by 1 or 2 million would mean he would have to agree to receive either a 33% or 66% discount to his salary ($2.9). I don't see that as likely.

Therefore I am cutting him per your instructions.

Now we have 27 contracted players with $99.80MM to the cap.

14) What you have suggested for a Clark restructure is problematic. Using your assumptions, the 2012 cap hit would increase from current 7.32 to 9.79 because of the 2.79 worth of unamortized prorated bonus pieces that accelerate. Otherwise Clark would have no problems accepting the $6 salary which is an upgrade from his scheduled $4.53 salary in 2012. I am going to cut him.

Now we have 26 contracted players with $98.06MM to the cap.

15) Sign Wayne to a 3 year $6MM/year salary contract with a $6MM bonus. Average annual compensation = $8MM. I think this is borderline, Last year Wayne had a $5.95 salary. This may not be enough of an upgrade for him to agree.

2012 cap hit = $8MM.

Now we have 27 contracted players with $106.06MM to the cap.

16) Sign Garcon to a 5 year $4MM/year salary contract with a $5MM bonus. Average annual compensation = $5MM.

Now we have 28 contracted players with $111.06 to the cap.

Add in the 25 additional players at league minimum to round out the 53m roster, and we have 53 players on your mock team with $120.81MM to the mock cap.

You are under the cap by $0.29MM, and you still need some TEs, a RB, OL, SS, LB(?), CBs?

[UndecidedFrog]

So far, and in summary of your mock cap 2012:

Your team has re-signed Mathis, Wayne and Garcon, restructured Freeney and Manning

Your team has cut Bullitt, Brackett, Moala, Mookie Johnson, Painter, Snow, Addai, Clark

Your team has allowed the following FAs to leave: Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Gonzales, Lacey, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, and Wheeler.

You now have 28 players under contract at $111.06MM salary cap.

Add in the remainder of 25 players at league minimum to bring up your team to the 53 man roster with $120.81MM to the 2012 cap.

The 2012 team salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM

I think you have some holes to fill at LS, TE, OL, LB(?), CB(?), SS(?). And you have about $0.29MM to spend.

[Superman]

Yes, if it doesn't work micro, it cannot work macro.

Yes, PM's current contract is one of the largest chunks of the 2012 cap at $17MM. If a renegotiation cannot be worked out, and the Colts cut PM, that will free up $6.6MM to the cap. Some posters have posted that Irsay doesn't care if the new contract hits the 2012 cap even harder than before ($17), as long as the outer years' caps are lessened. At this point in time, PM has not been cut, and there is no information about a new deal, so I will continue holding PM at $17, until you provide me the details of what you think will happen, and then I can run a personalized mock cap for you, like I did for BMoreColt.

Yes, you can figure that it "has to" come down to some number. But unless you can structure a renegotiated agreement that passes the red-face test which Freeney and his agent will find acceptable, this is akin to manufacturing free lunches. I encourage you to attempt to come up with this restructured agreement, noting that Freeney's current contract was purposefully backloaded such that he will be making $14.035MM salary this upcoming season. The other $5MM of the cap hit comes from the last pieces of unamortized prorated bonus. If you want him to forego this money, what kind of new agreement must you provide to entice him to accept? This is where the rubber hits the road.

Yes, that bolded assumption may not reflect reality. However, the IF/THEN statement is factually true. Of the 5FAs listed you want back, if you can provide the details (as I have asked for previously) of the contracts you want to provide them, I can run those numbers into your mock cap and see how it comes out. I encourage you to look at this source to see what their previous contracts were to help you structure something that they will accept (otherwise we would be manufacturing free lunches again).

http://www.spotrac.c...dwight-freeney/

I am willing to work with you to come up with your personalized mock cap. However, I would need some details as I have previously asked for. Without working out the mock cap, and making sure the details pass the red-face tests, I cannot say we are free and clear of the 2012 cap. The only way I can do that is if we assume another unrealistic assumption that we get no FAs back.

We MUST be free and clear of 2012 cap. We have no choice.

I'm saying that, with some changes, the cap is very workable, 2012 and beyond. You're asking me specifically how. It's obvious how: 1) We can't go over the cap, so something has to be done; 2) We have several free agents that, if necessary, we can just let walk; 3) We have a number of players that haven't contributed in two seasons and can be cut for minimal cap savings in 2012 but significant cap savings in 2013 and beyond; 4) We have two players under contract whose deals can be restructured or jettisoned to free up cap space in 2012 and beyond.

We will be under the cap in 2012; we have to be. The question is "how much flexibility will we have?" And from the looks of it, though it will take some tough decisions, we'll have plenty of flexibility. That's the macro.

Micro? Based on the assumption that we'll opt out of Manning's contract, this is what we could do:

After releasing Manning we'd be starting at $71 million.

Extend Freeney at four years, $55 million, $20 million guaranteed: 2012: $11 million; 2013: $13 million; 2014: $15 million; 2015: $16 million

Resign Mathis at five years, $60 million, $20 million guaranteed: 2012: $8.5 million; 2013: $10.5 million; 2014: $14 million; 2015: $15; 2016: $16 million

Resign Garcon at four years, $30 million, $7 million guaranteed: 2012: $5.5 million; 2013: $ 6.5 million; 2014: $ 8 million; 2015: $10 million

Resign Tamme at four years, $15 million, $4 million guaranteed: 2012: $3 million; 2013: $3.5 million; 2014: $3.75 million; 2015: $4.75 million

Total of $28 million in 2012 for those four (net result is + 20 million, because of Freeney's extension).

Let everyone else who is a free agent walk, and if they're still available in secondary free agency, see if you can fit guys like Brayton and Wheeler back in on two or three year deals with $2 or $3 million cap hits in 2012.

Release Brackett, Bullitt, and Addai. Try to trade Clark for a 5th rounder, if not, release him. Cap savings of $4 million in 2012.

Puts us with 8 draft picks, plus I'm projecting two compensatory picks for Session and Johnson, no earlier than the 6th round. Combined cap hit probably around $10 million, assuming no trades.

We're at $103 million, with a 41 man roster.

Tweak some things here and there, maybe we don't keep Freeney and Mathis (might be better to trade Freeney and keep Mathis, long-term). But it's still workable. And the savings from releasing the four vets and possibly trading Freeney, and opting out of Manning's deal, put us in better shape in 2013.

[UndecidedFrog]

After releasing Manning we'd be starting at $71 million.

Extend Freeney at four years, $55 million, $20 million guaranteed: 2012: $11 million; 2013: $13 million; 2014: $15 million; 2015: $16 million

Resign Mathis at five years, $60 million, $20 million guaranteed: 2012: $8.5 million; 2013: $10.5 million; 2014: $14 million; 2015: $15; 2016: $16 million

Resign Garcon at four years, $30 million, $7 million guaranteed: 2012: $5.5 million; 2013: $ 6.5 million; 2014: $ 8 million; 2015: $10 million

Resign Tamme at four years, $15 million, $4 million guaranteed: 2012: $3 million; 2013: $3.5 million; 2014: $3.75 million; 2015: $4.75 million

Total of $28 million in 2012 for those four (net result is + 20 million, because of Freeney's extension).

Let everyone else who is a free agent walk, and if they're still available in secondary free agency, see if you can fit guys like Brayton and Wheeler back in on two or three year deals with $2 or $3 million cap hits in 2012.

Release Brackett, Bullitt, and Addai. Try to trade Clark for a 5th rounder, if not, release him. Cap savings of $4 million in 2012.

Puts us with 8 draft picks, plus I'm projecting two compensatory picks for Session and Johnson, no earlier than the 6th round. Combined cap hit probably around $10 million, assuming no trades.

We're at $103 million, with a 41 man roster.

Tweak some things here and there, maybe we don't keep Freeney and Mathis (might be better to trade Freeney and keep Mathis, long-term). But it's still workable. And the savings from releasing the four vets and possibly trading Freeney, and opting out of Manning's deal, put us in better shape in 2013.

OK, Here is Superman's 2012 mock cap, given the information above:

0) Base cap, assuming 0 FAs, Luck, QB3, cut Painter = $92.62MM, 32 players under contract

1) release PM. This frees up $6.6MM cap space ($17-$10.4) = $86.02, and 31 players under contract

2) extend Freeney at 4 years, $20MM bonus; salaries: $11,13,15,16. With this structure, I think Freeney will accept foregoing the current $14, because of the big bonus.

However, given the bonus, and the pieces of unamortized bonus from previous contract ($5), the 2012 cap hit for Freeney has gone from $19.035 to $21.

Now you have 31 players under contract and cap spend at $87.98

3) Re-sign Mathis at 5 years; $20MM bonus; salaries: $8.5;10.5; 14,15,16.

This adds 12.5 to the cap this year.

Now you have 32 players under contract and cap spend at $100.48

4) Re-sign Garcon at 4 years; $7MM bonus; salaries:5.5; 6.5; 8; 10.

This adds 7.25 to the cap this year.

Now you have 33 players under contract and cap spend at $107.73

5) Re-sign Tamme at 4 years; $4MM bonus; salaries: 3; 3.5; 3.75; 4.75

This adds 4 to the cap this year.

Now you have 34 players under contract and cap spend at $111.73

6) I am assuming we don't add back Brayton and Wheeler.

Still, you have 34 players and cap spend at $111.73

7) Release Brackett. You save a net 0.2 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 33 players and cap spend at $111.53

8) Release Bullitt. You save a net 1.06 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 32 players and cap spend at $110.47

9) Release Addai. You save a net 1.04 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 31 players and cap spend at $109.43

10) Trade/Release Clark. You save a net 1.74 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 30 players and cap spend at $107.69

The trade scenario for a 5th rounder is the same, since the 5th rounder will be had at league minimum.

Add the remainder of the 53m roster, 23 players at league minimum, and you have 53 players and cap spend of $116.66

I am assuming that all the non-#1 picks in the draft (including compensatories) will be at league minimum, but in fairness, I think the #34 pick should get an incremental $1 cap hit, and #65 should get an incremental $0.5.

Which leaves you with a 53 player team and a total cap spend of $118.16MM

Congratulations! You are under the $121.2MM total team cap by $3.04MM

However, your mock roster looks like this:

You have cut Addai, Clark, Bullitt, Brackett, Painter and Manning.

You have re-signed 3 FAs: Mathis, Garcon, Tamme

You have allowed these FAs to walk: Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Gonzales, Lacey, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler

You have restructured Freeney.

You have signed Luck and QB3

You may want to look into spending that $3MM on depth at WR, TE, OL, CB, SS, RB

[Superman]

OK, Here is Superman's 2012 mock cap, given the information above:

0) Base cap, assuming 0 FAs, Luck, QB3, cut Painter = $92.62MM, 32 players under contract

1) release PM. This frees up $6.6MM cap space ($17-$10.4) = $86.02, and 31 players under contract

2) extend Freeney at 4 years, $20MM bonus; salaries: $11,13,15,16. With this structure, I think Freeney will accept foregoing the current $14, because of the big bonus.

However, given the bonus, and the pieces of unamortized bonus from previous contract ($5), the 2012 cap hit for Freeney has gone from $19.035 to $21.

Now you have 31 players under contract and cap spend at $87.98

3) Re-sign Mathis at 5 years; $20MM bonus; salaries: $8.5;10.5; 14,15,16.

This adds 12.5 to the cap this year.

Now you have 32 players under contract and cap spend at $100.48

4) Re-sign Garcon at 4 years; $7MM bonus; salaries:5.5; 6.5; 8; 10.

This adds 7.25 to the cap this year.

Now you have 33 players under contract and cap spend at $107.73

5) Re-sign Tamme at 4 years; $4MM bonus; salaries: 3; 3.5; 3.75; 4.75

This adds 4 to the cap this year.

Now you have 34 players under contract and cap spend at $111.73

6) I am assuming we don't add back Brayton and Wheeler.

Still, you have 34 players and cap spend at $111.73

7) Release Brackett. You save a net 0.2 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 33 players and cap spend at $111.53

8) Release Bullitt. You save a net 1.06 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 32 players and cap spend at $110.47

9) Release Addai. You save a net 1.04 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 31 players and cap spend at $109.43

10) Trade/Release Clark. You save a net 1.74 because of the unamortized prorated pieces accelerating that net against the salary savings.

Now you have 30 players and cap spend at $107.69

The trade scenario for a 5th rounder is the same, since the 5th rounder will be had at league minimum.

Add the remainder of the 53m roster, 23 players at league minimum, and you have 53 players and cap spend of $116.66

I am assuming that all the non-#1 picks in the draft (including compensatories) will be at league minimum, but in fairness, I think the #34 pick should get an incremental $1 cap hit, and #65 should get an incremental $0.5.

Which leaves you with a 53 player team and a total cap spend of $118.16MM

Congratulations! You are under the $121.2MM total team cap by $3.04MM

However, your mock roster looks like this:

You have cut Addai, Clark, Bullitt, Brackett, Painter and Manning.

You have re-signed 3 FAs: Mathis, Garcon, Tamme

You have allowed these FAs to walk: Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Gonzales, Lacey, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler

You have restructured Freeney.

You have signed Luck and QB3

You may want to look into spending that $3MM on depth at WR, TE, OL, CB, SS, RB

Are you saying there's no way to structure an extension for Freeney with $20 million guaranteed (which, to my mind, would include the $5 million we owe him for 2012 even in a release) without increasing his cap hit? I don't believe that's accurate. The entire objective of extending him is to lower his cap hit. And that's what I'm assuming with an $11 million cap hit. We're not piling his extension on top of his old contract.

Same thing for 2-5; the numbers I'm giving would have to be cap hits, not salaries. We can be as creative as necessary to free up cap space in 2012 and 2013.

[Superman]

Are you saying there's no way to structure an extension for Freeney with $20 million guaranteed (which, to my mind, would include the $5 million we owe him for 2012 even in a release) without increasing his cap hit? I don't believe that's accurate. The entire objective of extending him is to lower his cap hit. And that's what I'm assuming with an $11 million cap hit. We're not piling his extension on top of his old contract.

Same thing for 2-5; the numbers I'm giving would have to be cap hits, not salaries. We can be as creative as necessary to free up cap space in 2012 and 2013.

Edit: Edit:

Use this as the model for Tamme's new contract: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/kevin-boss/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/zach-miller/

Freeney/Mathis' new contract model: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/ray-edwards/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/tamba-hali/

Garcon's new contract model: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/lance-moore/

You'll also be addressing some of those depth positions in the draft.

[UndecidedFrog]

Are you saying there's no way to structure an extension for Freeney with $20 million guaranteed (which, to my mind, would include the $5 million we owe him for 2012 even in a release) without increasing his cap hit? I don't believe that's accurate. The entire objective of extending him is to lower his cap hit. And that's what I'm assuming with an $11 million cap hit. We're not piling his extension on top of his old contract.

Same thing for 2-5; the numbers I'm giving would have to be cap hits, not salaries. We can be as creative as necessary to free up cap space in 2012 and 2013.

We do not owe Freeney the $5. He was paid the bonus upfront, back in 2007. The $5 is what we owe our accounting system. It is the left-over pieces of pro-rated pieces thus far unaccounted from his existing contract that become due this year, his final year. They do not disappear because you provide him an extension. The extension now gives him a new salary, and a new pro-rated annual bonus that is spread over his new contractual term. This is accurate.

Freeney's old contract provided this:

6 year term

Signing bonus paid in 2007 of $15

Miscl. bonus paid in 2008 of $12.5

Salaries: 0.75; 0.75; 6.22; 8.825; 11.42; 14.035

So under cap accounting, here are the cap hits:

2007: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + salary 0.75 = 3.25

2008: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + pro-rated piece of miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5+salary 0.75 = 5.75

2009: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + pro-rated piece of miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5+salary 6.22 = 11.22

2010: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + pro-rated piece of miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5+salary 8.825 = 13.825

2011: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + pro-rated piece of miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5+salary 11.42 = 16.42

2012: Pro-rated piece of the signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + pro-rated piece of miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5+salary 14.035 = 19.035

Your new extension does not make the pro-rated pieces not already accounted for (the pieces for 2012) disappear.

Your new extension now provides:

2012: Left-over prorated piece of old signing bonus (15/6) = 2.5 + left-over piece of old miscl. bonus (12.5/5)= 2.5 + new pro-rated signing bonus (20/4) = 5 + salary 11= 21

2013: new pro-rated piece of signing bonus (20/4) = 5 + salary 13 = 18

2014: new pro-rated piece of signing bonus (20/4) = 5 + salary 15 = 20

2015: new pro-rated piece of signing bonus (20/4) = 5 + salary 16 = 21

The above is the cap.

What Freeney sees in real dollars were/will be:

2007: $15.75

2008: $13.25

2009: $6.22

2010: $8.825

2011: $11.42

2012: without your extension : $14.035

2012, with your new extension: $31

2013: $13

2014: $15

2015: $16

I'm sorry, I cannot work backwards. I need to know the salaries, not the projected cap hits. The players are interested in the real dollars, and will compare offers based on real dollars, guaranteed/unguaranteed splits, etc. I asked for the salaries. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

[UndecidedFrog]

Edit: Edit:

Use this as the model for Tamme's new contract: http://www.spotrac.c...ers/kevin-boss/ http://www.spotrac.c...ks/zach-miller/

Freeney/Mathis' new contract model: http://www.spotrac.c...ns/ray-edwards/ http://www.spotrac.c...efs/tamba-hali/

Garcon's new contract model: http://www.spotrac.c...ts/lance-moore/

You'll also be addressing some of those depth positions in the draft.

Ray Edwards did a contract with the Falcons in 2011:

5 years; $11 signing bonus, and salaries of 0.5; 3; 5.5; 5; 5

Freeney's old contract with the Colts in 2007:

6 years; $15 Signing bonus paid in 2007; $12.5 Miscl. bonus paid in 2008, and salaries: 0.75; 0.75; 6.22; 8.825; 11.42; 14.035

Do you really think Freeney and his agent will accept the Ray Edwards deal now, in lieu of the $14.035 salary?

IMO Freeney will not swap a $14.035 income for a $11.5 income.

[The Fish]

You don't need to tell me who you don't want to re-sign as FAs.

All I need is a list of FAs you do want to re-sign, and provide me with the details as to the terms of the new contracts you will provide them:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each of those years.

If you cut Manning now (before paying the option bonus) the cap hit to 2012 will reduce from $17MM to $10.4MM, a net cap savings

of $6.6 in 2012($18 in 2013, $19 in 2014, $20 in 2015)

If you draft anyone at the #1 overall pick, you can expect a 2012 cap hit of $4.2MM ($5.2 in 2013, $6.3 in 2014, $7.4 in 2015)

Freeney will hit the 2012 cap at $19.035MM, and will become a FA in 2013.

How much of your personal time would we be saving if we just cut Peyton so you can stop running hypothetical numbers for folks? We could easily re sign everyone else in that instance correct? Time is money!

[Ramblinwreck7]

Good luck on getting them to take less money.

? That wasn't the point, Dwight Freeney would get an extension, so that he would make more money over a longer period of time. Dallas Clark has been injured too much lately. If we need a little extra cap space, I bet he would restructure his contract to help out the team. Not every athlete is greedy you know.

[Ramblinwreck7]

You know I'm with you bro, but at this point, they are taking Luck, so we need to play cap mocks to make it work. Surprisingly Luck only counts 1 million more against the cap then what the Colts had at QB last year. Colts need two free agents, Redding or Bryant for DE or both and a NT Franklin or McKinney. Maybe bring back G Jake Scott cheap too. So that's about 10 million in free cap space needed.

If Pagano is as good as people say he is with using the players that he has to their advantages, then he won't switch the colts to a base 3-4 defense. We are just a couple of pieces away from having a very good base 4-3 defense, so I don't think Pagano would want to mess that up. I think a base 4-3 defense with hybrid formations is what Pagano should do to maximize our players' talents.

Don't just assume that we will draft Andrew Luck. Sure it may seem like it, but that's all just speculation, random unnamed sources, and possibly smokescreens. I bet Irsay has learned a few tricks from Bill Polian about hiding his intentions to make people think that the colts will do something else. No one ever new who Bill Polian would draft, so I think Irsay has learned from his experience. I was worried the colts wouldn't draft a LT last year, which shows how good they are at keeping secrets.

[Superman]

I'm sorry, I cannot work backwards. I need to know the salaries, not the projected cap hits. The players are interested in the real dollars, and will compare offers based on real dollars, guaranteed/unguaranteed splits, etc. I asked for the salaries. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

I'm interested in the cap dollars. My objective with the above scenarios is to have those players with the cap hits I mentioned. It can be done. You're converting my cap hit figures to salary figures, and that's throwing the entire projection off.

Ray Edwards did a contract with the Falcons in 2011:

5 years; $11 signing bonus, and salaries of 0.5; 3; 5.5; 5; 5

Freeney's old contract with the Colts in 2007:

6 years; $15 Signing bonus paid in 2007; $12.5 Miscl. bonus paid in 2008, and salaries: 0.75; 0.75; 6.22; 8.825; 11.42; 14.035

Do you really think Freeney and his agent will accept the Ray Edwards deal now, in lieu of the $14.035 salary?

IMO Freeney will not swap a $14.035 income for a $11.5 income.

I'm not talking about Ray Edwards deal. I'm talking about the model used for his deal. And for Tamba Hali's deal, both of which were done under the new CBA. Freeney will accept an extension that guarantees him more money than what he'd make if he forced the Colts' hand. And we can do that and lower his cap hit for 2012.

[Manning2Wayne]

Rookies are slotted now. It doesn't matter who we take with the top pick it's going to cost about the same. Frankly if we trade the pick and pick up more picks we would end up paying more for rookies as a whole than we would if we just used to the top pick on a QB.

so if we draft them, does it necessarily mean we have to sign them all to contracts or can they be apart of the organization, and be signed the next season?

[GoColts8818]

so if we draft them, does it necessarily mean we have to sign them all to contracts or can they be apart of the organization, and be signed the next season?

if we draft someone we own their rights for a year. If they do not sign with us by the draft the following year they can return to the draft. This happened to Bo Jackson. The Bucs took him high and he did sign with them and the following year he returned to the draft and was drafted by the Raiders.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I'm interested in the cap dollars. My objective with the above scenarios is to have those players with the cap hits I mentioned. It can be done. You're converting my cap hit figures to salary figures, and that's throwing the entire projection off.

I'm not talking about Ray Edwards deal. I'm talking about the model used for his deal. And for Tamba Hali's deal, both of which were done under the new CBA. Freeney will accept an extension that guarantees him more money than what he'd make if he forced the Colts' hand. And we can do that and lower his cap hit for 2012.

Freeney can't really force the Colts hand. He agrees to an extension or he's traded, or cut.

Look at what you want to do with him(which is far too high in my opinion).

Extend Freeney at four years, $55 million, $20 million guaranteed: 2012: $11 million; 2013: $13 million; 2014: $15 million; 2015: $16 million

You'd have to lower the 2012 cap hit to make it more cap friendly short term.

2012 5m(existing cap hit), Signing bonus(5 million), base salary of say 3 million)= 13

2013 SB 5 million base salary 10= 15

2014 SB 5 million base salary 11=16

2015 SB 5 million base salary 12=17

Total

20 Million up front, 55 total

That would lower his 2012 cap hit 6 million, and give a slight increase to your proposed #'s.

If the Colts offered him that deal, he'd break his wrist and go on IR trying to sign it so fast.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a 18 million signing bonus over 3 years.with 1, 6, 10 million base salaries would get him under contract.

2012 5m(existing cap hit), Signing bonus(6 million), base salary of say 1 million)= 13

2013 SB 6 million + base salary 8 =14

2014 SB 6 million + base salary 10 =16

Total extension 3 years 18 up front 37 total.

Who really knows what his asking price will be and what he would be willing to accept. The fun part of negotiations.

The key to any deal would be to have a low base salary for him in 2012, since he's getting the signing bonus in 2012 to offset it, to make it more cap friendly.