I Just Feel Like What I Think Needs To Be Heard.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team in 2013.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $67.9MM to play one season ($26MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

Peyon has already got his signing bonus. Also I believe the cap is 150 millon so peytons # wouldn't be 24% of our cap, if I am correct. Altough it is still high, I believe if Peyton is close health wise Irsay will pay him, if not he will cut him & caulk it up to health reasons.

[UndecidedFrog]

Peyon has already got his signing bonus. Also I believe the cap is 150 millon so peytons # wouldn't be 24% of our cap, if I am correct. Altough it is still high, I believe if Peyton is close health wise Irsay will pay him, if not he will cut him & caulk it up to health reasons.

Yes, Peyton received the $20MM signing bonus in 2011. However, the pro-rated parts of this signing bonus is spread throughout his contract years for purposes of the salary cap ($4/year for 5 years). The non-amortized portions of these pro-rated bits all accelerate if the Peyton is cut before the contract term expires, and hits the salary cap for that year when he is cut.

The 2012 salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM.

So the worse case scenario is if the Colts pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM in March, and then Peyton retires or is released before June1, 2012, the salary cap hit in 2012 will be $38.4MM (or 32%of the total cap).

If Peyton manages to play the 2012 season, but retires right after, the salary cap hit in 2012 will be $17MM (14% of the 2012 total cap) and in 2013 will be $28.8MM (23% of the 2013 total cap).

[JoKeR]

I am a huge Manning fan, but a bigger Colts. So hear me out. I was born in '92 so I did not have to endure the bottom years most fans did. I have faint memories of Jim Harbaugh, but more vivid memories I have of those times is Tony Siragusa. I use to cheer for "the Goose." When I got older Peyton came to Indy, and I started to understand the game more. Peyton was my biggest hero, I use to mimic him in my backyard. I know every aspect of the game because of Peyton. There is no way that I believe one player is above a team though, even if it is Manning. I had to watch Sosa leave the Cubs.

We all know the 2012-13 season is a rebuilding year. I can probably say 100 percent guarantee no one believes the #1 pick, either it be Andrew Luck, RG3, or any other QB we see fit, will lead us to a Super Bowl next year. So the only chance of a Super Bowl next year is with Peyton.

A lot of reports and indications point towards Peyton getting pushed out the door. Do you not think Peyton gets a chance above and beyond? I mean he brought a Super Bowl to a franchise that was the laughing stock of the league for many, many years. Say we take a gamble, and pick up the bonus while using our #1 pick on a QB. If it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season, or when Jim Irsay sits down with Peyton he should say "Peyton I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You can be our guy if you are healthy. When the times comes though, and you aren't ready we need you to retire." The only chance we have of winning a Super Bowl in the next three-four years is with Peyton. This team will not win a Super Bowl with that #1 pick in the coming years. I'm not saying it is incapable of a young QB to win a Super Bowl, i.e. Brady and Roethlisberger, but the #1 is not going to inherit the Patriot defense or the Steeler defense. Yes, our defense is going to be revamped, and most likely be improved in the offseason. Is that not another reason for us to take a gamble with Peyton? For once he has a chance to play with a strong defense.

Well you can say if we take Peyton we could hault the progress of our #1. Well if it works out Peyton can go in 2012, and our #1 gets a phenomenal mentor. If it doesn't work out our #1 won't miss his rookie season anyway because Manning is incapable of playing.

So what I am basically saying is give Peyton the benefit of the doubt above and beyond. If it doesn't work out we absorb the cap hit during the "rebuilding year." We have until June 1st until Peyton's contract counts against us next year, 2013-14 season. If by that time Peyton is a no go he must retire, or we release him. He at least deserves the chance.

Good post but Irsay has already said he will be a Colts if he's healthy enough. He doesn't have to be 100% for the evaluation, just healthy enough to indicate he will healthy by next season.

Ignore the media until Irsay &Manning give word. They're all about trade and release possibilities.

[UndecidedFrog]

Good post but Irsay has already said he will be a Colts if he's healthy enough. He doesn't have to be 100% for the evaluation, just healthy enough to indicate he will healthy by next season.

Different people have different ideas of what "healthy enough" means.

For some, it may mean to have the ability to throw the ball the same way pre-injury.

For others, it may mean something less than that.

What we don't know is how Irsay means it.

But we will find out come March 9.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

So you are 20? I am guessing that most of your life the Colts had Manning and were contenders?

I watched my first Colts game, that I can remember, in 1971 (I was 4) and it was the Superbowl vs the Cowboys...which we won. Now by saying "we" I mean the Colts...just for clarification.

Soon after Johnny U was shown the street and the greatest QB I ever saw, Bert Jones, brought the Colts back to respectibility...only to suffer from injuries and a trade to the Rams. From 1978 to 1998, with the exception of the strike induced 1987 divisional champ and 1995 team that lost to Pitt, there was little to cheer about.

I was ecstatic when PM was drafted in '98. I was a fan of his Father and was hopeful for a chance at greatness. It came, it was great and it was frustrating, as defensively those teams rarely could hold their own against the elite.

All said, I am greatful for what has transpired and what PM has given to the team but as a man once said, " the only constant in life is change. ". It's time for that change, imvho...and I embrace it with the hopes of a more balanced team and aggressive defense.

Bert Jones ws the ^chiz^!! He ws an MVP of the league & interusting enough when he got hurt the same thing that happened then happened this year. We the Colts went into I huge tail spin!! HUM

[Jaric]

So $38.4MM isn't worth a gamble in a "rebuilding year?" The Colts aren't going anywhere next season under a rookie QB. It just isn't going to happen.

\

No, not even close. That would be devastating to the franchise and put us back a good 2-3 years.

[UndecidedFrog]

\

No, not even close. That would be devastating to the franchise and put us back a good 2-3 years.

I agree. That would mean that almost 1/3 of the total team cap space for 2012 is used up by one player who cannot play. Big time ouch.

[Jaric]

I agree. That would mean that almost 1/3 of the total team cap space for 2012 is used up by one player who cannot play. Big time ouch.

That's completely unfathomable how anyone could take that risk.

If Manning isn't 100% heathly, they almost have no choice but to release him. As painful a thought as that is, it's far less painful than 40 million dollars in dead cap space.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Yes, Peyton received the $20MM signing bonus in 2011. However, the pro-rated parts of this signing bonus is spread throughout his contract years for purposes of the salary cap ($4/year for 5 years). The non-amortized portions of these pro-rated bits all accelerate if the Peyton is cut before the contract term expires, and hits the salary cap for that year when he is cut.

The 2012 salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM.

So the worse case scenario is if the Colts pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM in March, and then Peyton retires or is released before June1, 2012, the salary cap hit in 2012 will be $38.4MM (or 32%of the total cap).

If Peyton manages to play the 2012 season, but retires right after, the salary cap hit in 2012 will be $17MM (14% of the 2012 total cap) and in 2013 will be $28.8MM (23% of the 2013 total cap).

Well I don't pretend to know alot about the cap, if all this is true, If Peyton is not 100% healthy come time his bonus is due thats it folks he will be gone. You CAN NOT KILL THE TEAM FINCIALY FOR YEAR PERIOD. Not even Peyton would want to that.

[UndecidedFrog]

Well I don't pretend to know alot about the cap, if all this is true, If Peyton is not 100% healthy come time his bonus is due thats it folks he will be gone. You CAN NOT KILL THE TEAM FINCIALY FOR YEAR PERIOD. Not even Peyton would want to that.

Don't worry, many people don't understand the consequences of the current Peyton contract and what it may do to the salary cap.

This is why I think you see many people spending Mr. Irsay's money so freely, without regard to the consequences. But the consequences in this case are dire.

People need to understand what they are suggesting, and how it may negatively affect the team.

[Superman]

Don't worry, many people don't understand the consequences of the current Peyton contract and what it may do to the salary cap.

This is why I think you see many people spending Mr. Irsay's money so freely, without regard to the consequences. But the consequences in this case are dire.

People need to understand what they are suggesting, and how it may negatively affect the team.

The question remains: Will Manning be healthy for his March 1 evaluation?

If the answer is "no," then the next step is painful, but necessary. If the answer is "yes," then the next step is risky and even costly, but I believe it to be worth the cost.

If the answer is iffy, then it raises another question: Can the option bonus be pushed back? There are conflicting reports, but aside from objection by the NFLPA (which shouldn't come up at all, considering Manning's status and the fact that he was paid almost $30 million to do nothing but generate headlines all season), there shouldn't be any reason why the bonus can't be pushed back to April 1, or even April 15. The draft isn't until April 26.

Also, and this is directed to no one in particular, but I don't think it's fair to insinuate that just because someone wants to see Manning stay in Indy that they are somehow not interested in the long-term welfare of the team. I agree that a lot of people don't really understand the ramifications of not making a decision before the deadline.

[UndecidedFrog]

The question remains: Will Manning be healthy for his March 1 evaluation?

If the answer is "no," then the next step is painful, but necessary. If the answer is "yes," then the next step is risky and even costly, but I believe it to be worth the cost.

If the answer is iffy, then it raises another question: Can the option bonus be pushed back? There are conflicting reports, but aside from objection by the NFLPA (which shouldn't come up at all, considering Manning's status and the fact that he was paid almost $30 million to do nothing but generate headlines all season), there shouldn't be any reason why the bonus can't be pushed back to April 1, or even April 15. The draft isn't until April 26.

Also, and this is directed to no one in particular, but I don't think it's fair to insinuate that just because someone wants to see Manning stay in Indy that they are somehow not interested in the long-term welfare of the team. I agree that a lot of people don't really understand the ramifications of not making a decision before the deadline.

I did not mean to insinuate that people are not interested in the long-term welfare of the team. I meant to insinuate that some people do not realize what their suggestions may mean for the long term welfare of the team.

I partially agree and partially disagree with what you wrote.

If Peyton is not healthy enough in early March, the rational decision is to release him before the March 8 option bonus is due.

If Peyton is healthy enough in early March, a careful decision and projection should then be made as to the estimated longevity of Peyton's remaining playing career. Is it the remaining 4 years of his contractual term? If it is anything less, this points to a hard decision to be made:

1) either live with the consequences of an earlier than contractual term retirement and the salary cap hit that will entail (in previous threads, firejimcaldwell and I have delineated the amounts given which year he retires), or

2) renegotiate the contract. Firejimcaldwell has even suggested one that is workable. However, it would mean a significant reduction in value to Peyton from his current contract (about a 50% discount)

I do not know if a push-back on the option bonus date is doable or not. However, I don't see Peyton wanting to agree to that for the same reasons why I don't see Peyton agreeing to the discounted renegotiated contract.

[LUVTHESHOE]

I hate to interject some common sense here, but does'nt anyone think they already have some kind of of clue on Peyton's health.Man people we all love PM but for gods sake the guy has had 3 major operations in 19 months. I am fairly sure that Jim Irsay is more aware on PM health than any of us and is acting accordingly. I believe they are just waiting for the super bowl to end and the anouncements will start. I feel they have had the news PM WILL NOT BE HEALTHY enough to play next year they day the house cleaning started.Jim has said that if PM was going to be ready to go he would be happy to pay him any amount and we have no reason not to believe him. So I realize this might be hard to accept,but can we please stop acting like Mr Irsay has just thrown PM OUT LIKE OLD GARBAGE!BECAUSE THAT IS JUST NOT THE CASE.I would willing to bet this is a heck of alot harder on JI than any of us.Keep in mind he is not the one who hurt PMs neck, but I am sure that will be some knuckleheads next thought. Good luck with your health PM and thank you JI for doing all you can for 12 to 15 more years of success.

[Superman]

I did not mean to insinuate that people are not interested in the long-term welfare of the team. I meant to insinuate that some people do not realize what their suggestions may mean for the long term welfare of the team.

Cool deal.

I partially agree and partially disagree with what you wrote.

If Peyton is not healthy enough in early March, the rational decision is to release him before the March 8 option bonus is due.

If Peyton is healthy enough in early March, a careful decision and projection should then be made as to the estimated longevity of Peyton's remaining playing career. Is it the remaining 4 years of his contractual term? If it is anything less, this points to a hard decision to be made:

The cap is projected to go up pretty significantly in 2014, so we're really only talking about 2012 and 2013. A $19 and $20 million cap hit in 2014 and 2015 is not that worrisome. Especially if there's a possibility of a restructure before we pick up the option bonus this year.

1) either live with the consequences of an earlier than contractual term retirement and the salary cap hit that will entail (in previous threads, firejimcaldwell and I have delineated the amounts given which year he retires), or

2) renegotiate the contract. Firejimcaldwell has even suggested one that is workable. However, it would mean a significant reduction in value to Peyton from his current contract (about a 50% discount)

The cap ramifications of keeping him through 2015 or of him retiring before then are only prohibitive through 2013, because of the anticipated cap increase in 2014.

I do not know if a push-back on the option bonus date is doable or not. However, I don't see Peyton wanting to agree to that for the same reasons why I don't see Peyton agreeing to the discounted renegotiated contract.

Reports differ on whether the push-back is a viable option or not. I don't know anymore than you do.

But I don't understand why you'd not see Manning agreeing to restructure and take less money. If he's able to play, and Irsay wants to keep him, and we redo his deal, he'd make more money than he would if we released him and he went and played somewhere else for $10 million a year or whatever he'd get on the open market. From his perspective, I don't see it being about money. Not saying he's willing to play for free, or even for cheap. Just saying that if there was a possibility of working out a reduced value contract and keeping him, then it makes sense for both sides to pursue it. If he's healthy, that is.

[BMack24]

I agree that Peyton deserves the chance to finish what he started. This is the house that Peyton built. If he's healthy enough to go next year, he's our QB. I've accepted the drafting of Luck or RGIII, but either could use the tutilage and example of Peyton Manning. 28 million...SO WHAT!!! New England pays Tom Brady that kind of contract AND they used their 3rd rounder on a QB in last years draft. With the way the rookie scale works this year, we shouldn't be paying much more than NE does at the QB position. We could cut some other contract weight by releasing Dallas Clark, Gary Brackett, Melvin Bullitt, and signing Dwight Freeney to a more cap friendly deal.

You must be crazy if the colts will cut clark.....he's peyton go to guy when the situation gets real heavy....maybe brackett he's getting old....bullitt is still good use to us especially when the defense is about to get better but for some reason I really think they may let mathis go I dont know why but that's my opinion

[Superman]

You must be crazy if the colts will cut clark.....he's peyton go to guy when the situation gets real heavy....maybe brackett he's getting old....bullitt is still good use to us especially when the defense is about to get better but for some reason I really think they may let mathis go I dont know why but that's my opinion

Clark hasn't played at a high level since 2009. Still one of my favorite players, but he's a cap liability at this point. I'd be very surprised if he's still a Colt next season.

[UndecidedFrog]

The cap is projected to go up pretty significantly in 2014, so we're really only talking about 2012 and 2013. A $19 and $20 million cap hit in 2014 and 2015 is not that worrisome. Especially if there's a possibility of a restructure before we pick up the option bonus this year.

The 2011 total cap was 120MM.

I have projected the cap to increase by 1% per year until 2014, where the increased TV revenues will hit, at which time I project a 10% increase, then a 2% per year increase thereafter.

2011: 120MM

2012: 121.2 MM

2013: 122.4 MM

2014: 134.6 MM

2015: 137.3MM

The cap ramifications of keeping him through 2015 or of him retiring before then are only prohibitive through 2013, because of the anticipated cap increase in 2014.

The $19 and $20 cap hits for Peyton together with the #1 picked QB and a #3QB in 2014 and 2015 will represent approximately 19% and 20% of the total cap, respectively.

If Peyton retires before the expiration of his contractual term, the hits and their respective % of total cap (as projected above) will be (assuming he is paid in March) one of these scenarios:

1) if Peyton retires before June 1, 2012, $38.4MM to 2012, or 32% of the 2012 cap.

2) After 2012 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2013, $28.8MM or 23.5% of the 2013 cap.

3) After 2013 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2014, $19.2MM or 15.5% of the 2014 cap.

4) After 2014 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2015, $9.6MM or 7.6% of the 2015 cap,

All these cap hits are exacerbated when you add in the cap hits for #1 drafted QB and #3QB.

But I don't understand why you'd not see Manning agreeing to restructure and take less money. If he's able to play, and Irsay wants to keep him, and we redo his deal, he'd make more money than he would if we released him and he went and played somewhere else for $10 million a year or whatever he'd get on the open market. From his perspective, I don't see it being about money. Not saying he's willing to play for free, or even for cheap. Just saying that if there was a possibility of working out a reduced value contract and keeping him, then it makes sense for both sides to pursue it. If he's healthy, that is.

I don't see Manning/Condon agreeing to take less money, because he has no incentive to do so. If given a choice between getting $63MM over the next 4 years, of which $28MM is now, and getting about $32MM over the next 4 years, of which only $16MM is now, I know what I would choose. There is no way to give him more money without hitting the cap more severely than it is already hit, unless it is in terms of ULTBE (unlikely to be earned) incentives.

[BleedingBlue]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team in 2013.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $67.9MM to play one season ($26MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

Your tax dollars helped build the house that peyton built. Its not other peoples money it is yours. Irsay said its not about money..But hey lets cut the GOAT because that seems to be the sentiment around here. Sickening.

[UndecidedFrog]

Your tax dollars helped build the house that peyton built. Its not other peoples money it is yours. Irsay said its not about money..But hey lets cut the GOAT because that seems to be the sentiment around here. Sickening.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you claiming to own any part of the Colts organization? Are you claiming any rights to spend their money?

[Superman]

If Peyton retires before the expiration of his contractual term, the hits and their respective % of total cap (as projected above) will be (assuming he is paid in March) one of these scenarios:

1) if Peyton retires before June 1, 2012, $38.4MM to 2012, or 32% of the 2012 cap.

2) After 2012 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2013, $28.8MM or 23.5% of the 2013 cap.

3) After 2013 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2014, $19.2MM or 15.5% of the 2014 cap.

4) After 2014 season, if Peyton retires before June 1, 2015, $9.6MM or 7.6% of the 2015 cap,

All these cap hits are exacerbated when you add in the cap hits for #1 drafted QB and #3QB.

If you can, compare these numbers to the cap hits if we release him.

[FireJimCaldwell]

If you can, compare these numbers to the cap hits if we release him.

The #'s should be the same whether he's no longer on the roster via trade, release, or retirement. The one different would be if he's released after 6/1 on any given year the $amount would be split between that current year and the following year.

So if he were cut July 1 2013, it would be a 14.4 cap hit in 2013, and a 14.4 cap hit in 2014.

If you are asking about releasing him before the option bonus, then that is still the 10.4 (16 million -5.6)

[UndecidedFrog]

If you can, compare these numbers to the cap hits if we release him.

If the Colts cut Peyton and not pay him the $28MM bonus due on March 8, the 2012 cap hit will be $10.4MM, or 8.5% of the total 2012 cap.

If the Colts cut Peyton after paying him the $28MM bonus due on March 8, the cap hits will be this, depending on when you cut him:

1) Before June 1, 2012, $38.4MM to 2012, or 32% of the 2012 cap.

2) After 2012 season, before June 1, 2013, $28.8MM or 23.5% of the 2013 cap.

3) After 2013 season, before June 1, 2014, $19.2MM or 15.5% of the 2014 cap.

4) After 2014 season, before June 1, 2015, $9.6MM or 7.6% of the 2015 cap,

[Superman]

If the Colts cut Peyton and not pay him the $28MM bonus due on March 8, the 2012 cap hit will be $10.4MM, or 8.5% of the total 2012 cap.

If the Colts cut Peyton after paying him the $28MM bonus due on March 8, the cap hits will be this, depending on when you cut him:

1) Before June 1, 2012, $38.4MM to 2012, or 32% of the 2012 cap.

2) After 2012 season, before June 1, 2013, $28.8MM or 23.5% of the 2013 cap.

3) After 2013 season, before June 1, 2014, $19.2MM or 15.5% of the 2014 cap.

4) After 2014 season, before June 1, 2015, $9.6MM or 7.6% of the 2015 cap,

Just to make sure I understand, if they cut him before March 8, then there are no cap ramifications beyond the 2012 league year?

[UndecidedFrog]

Just to make sure I understand, if they cut him before March 8, then there are no cap ramifications beyond the 2012 league year?

Correct. If the Colts cut Peyton before March 8, and not pay him the bonus, the only hit will be to the 2012 cap for $10.4MM. Nothing beyond.

[Superman]

Correct. If the Colts cut Peyton before March 8, and not pay him the bonus, the only hit will be to the 2012 cap for $10.4MM. Nothing beyond.

Cap hit, that is. Still guaranteed money to be paid, but not on the cap. Right?

Either way, that makes releasing him a lot more sensible than I thought, especially beyond 2012.

[shakedownstreet]

many of the people who spew about the terrible colts cutting wonderful lord peyton manning don't understand this stuff, and probably still wouldn't if you spelled it out for them ten times

i can just imagine the blank stare after you've laid it out the tenth time, "but there talkin bout cuttin payton mannings!" [intentional spinal tap reference]

[UndecidedFrog]

Cap hit, that is. Still guaranteed money to be paid, but not on the cap. Right?

Either way, that makes releasing him a lot more sensible than I thought, especially beyond 2012.

Yes, Cap hit. If the Colts cut Peyton before March 8, and not pay him the bonus, the only cap hit will be to the 2012 cap for $10.4MM. Nothing beyond.

There are no guaranteed monies to be paid.

[UndecidedFrog]

many of the people who spew about the terrible colts cutting wonderful lord peyton manning don't understand this stuff, and probably still wouldn't if you spelled it out for them ten times

i can just imagine the blank stare after you've laid it out the tenth time, "but there talkin bout cuttin payton mannings!" [intentional spinal tap reference]

I have come to learn this. It seems, no matter how simply I lay it out, they don't understand. Perhaps it is because they don't want to understand.

We all like to think of our hero archetypes to be heroes without being paid.

[David Wagner]

My brother in law lives in Green Bay. He was there when the packers divorced brett farve. It was ugly, fans trying to tick on Aaron Rodgers booing him.

It is going to get ugly and that is just how it is.

[David Wagner]

when I say it is going to get ugly I also mean for Andrew Luck. Manning fans will continually find ways to put him down. it is just the nature of the game. so when the colts have bad times with a rookie qb, and they will you will see the cracks in the colt fans who really were manning fans.

[UndecidedFrog]

My brother in law lives in Green Bay. He was there when the packers divorced brett farve. It was ugly, fans trying to tick on Aaron Rodgers booing him.

It is going to get ugly and that is just how it is.

But now, they love Aaron Rodgers. See how fickle fans can be?

[David Wagner]

But now, they love Aaron Rodgers. See how fickle fans can be?

i agree they love him now but it was hard times for the first year. I expect the same. i have not followed the colts as closely since Jim Caldwell was hired. I always felt manning could have been to more super bowls had colts org. invested in a better defense. it was nice to draft donald brown but when your defense is sieve it does not do you much good. the colts had too much ying and not enough yang over the years thus creating an imbalance. my hope is they do not go all the way over to the other side and be a defense only team like the ravens and niners.

[Superman]

Yes, Cap hit. If the Colts cut Peyton before March 8, and not pay him the bonus, the only cap hit will be to the 2012 cap for $10.4MM. Nothing beyond.

There are no guaranteed monies to be paid.

Yeah, that makes me come to terms with this idea. I don't like it, but it makes sense. The only thing that would keep us from releasing him would be if he is absolutely 100% healthy and his arm strength has returned. Other than that, it's a surefire out from $54 million of real money over the next four years ($90 million minus the $26 million last year and the $10.4 million in 2012).

For 2012, I'd rather pay Manning and Luck and another backup than pay Luck and two other backups, and a $10.4 million cap hit for Manning anyways.

I'll hold out hope for restructure, but it's probably unlikely. I get why people say that he's likely done in Indy. It would take a serious vote of confidence from the doctors for Irsay to keep him.

[BMack24]

Clark hasn't played at a high level since 2009. Still one of my favorite players, but he's a cap liability at this point. I'd be very surprised if he's still a Colt next season.

Ok you're talking 2 years going into 3....you cant blame dallas clark for getting injuried in 2010 because he was a beast before he got hurt....I'm telling you dallas is a top 5 TE and he proves it each year beside this past season

[OLD FAN MAN]

You contridicted yourself by saying "I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams." Those young QB's did win, how they won is besides the point. Im not saying the Colts would make the playoffs next season with Luck, all Im saying is.....it is definitely possible.

with our new coach i think it is very possible

[Superman]

Ok you're talking 2 years going into 3....you cant blame dallas clark for getting injuried in 2010 because he was a beast before he got hurt....I'm telling you dallas is a top 5 TE and he proves it each year beside this past season

Yes he was a monster from the 2006 playoffs through 2009. And like I said, he's one of my favorite Colts. But he hasn't been productive since then. And honestly, his production is replaceable. Austin Collie showed that in 2010, at least when he was on the field. Dallas is 32, and probably won't get back to his previous level of play. I think the smart thing to do is to release him, take the cap savings, and replace him by keeping Tamme, drafting an athletic tight end, and maybe getting into secondary free agency. All that together would probably cost about half of what Clark will next season.

And then the savings get even bigger in 2013.

[JoKeR]

Yes he was a monster from the 2006 playoffs through 2009. And like I said, he's one of my favorite Colts. But he hasn't been productive since then. And honestly, his production is replaceable. Austin Collie showed that in 2010, at least when he was on the field. Dallas is 32, and probably won't get back to his previous level of play. I think the smart thing to do is to release him, take the cap savings, and replace him by keeping Tamme, drafting an athletic tight end, and maybe getting into secondary free agency. All that together would probably cost about half of what Clark will next season.

And then the savings get even bigger in 2013.

Are you sure? What's the hit in dead cap space? He's still a great TE too, so why release him again? Even if we magically got a Gronk type, Whitten type TE, Clark would still have alot of value as a slot receiver. Releasing him gives the Colts zero value.

[Superman]

Are you sure? What's the hit in dead cap space? He's still a great TE too, so why release him again? Even if we magically got a Gronk type, Whitten type TE, Clark would still have alot of value as a slot receiver. Releasing him gives the Colts zero value.

He's a really good tight end only if he's healthy. But he has a cap hit of $7.3 and $8.1 million (?) for the next two seasons. Releasing him (or trading him) saves us a little money in 2012, and a lot of money in 2013.

I don't know why the dead cap space matters, considering the fact that he's essentially been dead cap space the last two years.

And we don't need a top five tight end, by the way. It would be nice to have one, but a lot of people want a top five everything -- receiver, quarterback, running back, guard, tackle, defensive tackle, linebacker, safety, corner, kick returner, and so on. You can't have a top five everything in the salary cap era.

So if you want to retool your defense and put talent around your new quarterback that he can grow with, then it becomes easier to part ways with Dallas. Jacob Tamme has done a very good job the last two years. We have Eldridge as an inline tight end. We can find a couple more guys to fill out the spot, and maybe even hit on a really good young guy in the draft.

Ideally, we'd trade Dallas for a 5th rounder or something. But if we just have to cut him, so be it. I think it makes a ton of sense at this point.

[BMack24]

Yes he was a monster from the 2006 playoffs through 2009. And like I said, he's one of my favorite Colts. But he hasn't been productive since then. And honestly, his production is replaceable. Austin Collie showed that in 2010, at least when he was on the field. Dallas is 32, and probably won't get back to his previous level of play. I think the smart thing to do is to release him, take the cap savings, and replace him by keeping Tamme, drafting an athletic tight end, and maybe getting into secondary free agency. All that together would probably cost about half of what Clark will next season.

And then the savings get even bigger in 2013.

Naw bruh dallas clark is one of kind some may come close but not like him his speed for a TE is fast which is why alot of LB's have a hard time covering him and he's too strong for a safety or cornerback.....this is why I really think mathis may get cut....offensively the colts are good (besides the running game) but defensively we're terrible and I think alot of changes will be on the defensive side....I mean tamme is good but he's not as fast he's probably a better blocker than clark but clark has the experience which peyton would really like to have if they come to an agreement on the contract but we will find out soon enough