Despite depth chart, Good seems favorite for RG.

[Gavin]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

I got a 50 cent piece that you are wrong.

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

[richard pallo]

Since last year the team has been very excited and complimentary about Good.  I really think he could become a real special player for us.  Along the lines of K. Osemele who I don't think was a high draft pick either and who the Ravens couldn't afford to keep last year. This could be his breakout year.

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

 

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Since last year the team has been very excited and complimentary about Good.  I really think he could become a real special player for us.  Along the lines of K. Osemele who I don't think was a high draft pick either and who the Ravens couldn't afford to keep last year. This could be his breakout year.

Osemele was a 2nd rounder

[Gavin]

34 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

Didn't get the message

[Lawrence Owen]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

Either way, Good or Thornton,...the RG position should be much better.  Yes, even if Thornton starts.  Reason for this is because Thornton has not really had serious competition at his position.  Good is obviously pushing for the spot, and Pagano/Philbin is obviously showing thier collective interest in Good with the amount of reps they have givin him.  If Thornton earns the spot, it won't be because he's just 'familiar' with the position.  It will be because he honestly put forth the work and effort and outperformed Good.  

If Good gets the position, it will be because he has learned from those reps during practice, and listened to his position coach.  Compiling his naturaly gifted traits with the work put in to learn what it takes to be a RG.

So all in all, either guy winning it, I will be feeling much better about this position come the beginning of the regular season. As they say, Iron sharpens iron.

[krunk]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

 

Thornton had people like Lance Louis and a broke down Herremans playing over him.    If he was that familiar with his job there wouldn't constantly be musical chairs at his spot pretty much just about every season since he's been here.   I do like him overall and I did predict he'd probably be the starter if healthy, but here we are again waiting on Hugh to recover from injury.  That is most of his story and the main reason I pointed to for why they would choose to replace him.  Plus Good brings way more size and power to the position and he's said to be pretty smart so it wouldn't suprise or shock me if it wasn't Hugh when it's all said and done.

[krunk]

You put Good at guard and I expect him to do more of what he did to that Tampa Bay defender.  Size wise the kid is massive and very strong.(just speaking size here and that's it)  I mean he's 2 inches taller than Larry Allen was and 20 pounds heavier.  Plus he moves well.  I have to see what he looks like against the pass at that position, but against the run I think he and Kelly will open some things up for us. 

[Lawrence Owen]

17 minutes ago, krunk said:

You put Good at guard and I expect him to do more of what he did to that Tampa Bay defender.  Size wise the kid is massive and very strong.(just speaking size here and that's it)  I mean he's 2 inches taller than Larry Allen was and 20 pounds heavier.  Plus he moves well.  I have to see what he looks like against the pass at that position, but against the run I think he and Kelly will open some things up for us. 

I agree with you.  I believe he could very well be our best run blocker with the right coaching.  And being Indy is a 'power, between the tackles' run team, having him at guard just seems logical.  I think he did well at pass defense when he played tackle, but that is a different position, so only hope he can translate that to guard and then just improve.  

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I agree with you.  I believe he could very well be our best run blocker with the right coaching.  And being Indy is a 'power, between the tackles' run team, having him at guard just seems logical.  I think he did well at pass defense when he played tackle, but that is a different position, so only hope he can translate that to guard and then just improve.  

We are more of a zone blocking team this year, but there will still be a mixture of power man blocking also.

[Lawrence Owen]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

We are more of a zone blocking team this year, but there will still be a mixture of power man blocking also.

oh yeah..i forgot that is something we inherited when Philbin was gotten.  They talk a lot about pulling guards as well for lead blockers in Chud's scheme, Could you imagine a lb'er who has to deal with a 6'5" 350lb 'dancing bear' coming at you at a running pace?!  Can't wait to see this in game action...lol 

[CoachLite]

15 hours ago, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

Sounds like the Colts-fan brain trust wants Thornton at RG and Reitz and RT. Same ole right side of the OL, just like last year. How'd that work out for protecting Andrew Luck? We'll have to see if Good can pull as a guard (lateral speed and accuracy is different than straight line). Haeg may be closer to being pro ready than Clark as T (assumed RT, one to move to LT in a couple of years), but both Haeg and Clark have some excellent potential. But potential and $5 may only buy you a cup of coffee. If Good was 2" taller and 20 lbs lighter, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation for RG over RT.

 

The season is almost here and we'll soon see how this all plays out. If the right side of the OL doesn't hold up, and Andrew Luck gets hurt, again ... oh, well, next man up.

 

 

[Footballlax31]

On 8/6/2016 at 4:48 PM, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

I use to play guard and center for my high school team. I think tackle is way harder too play than guard. Tackle you have one man to block yes, but that also puts you on a island one on one. Guard atleast imo is easy when you have center/guard chemistry. Which i think will come with time especially with kelly at center.

 

Good is athletic enough to move and pick up stunts and strong enough to get blitzing linebacker. Once he can pick it up mentally it becomes very easy imo.

[krunk]

15 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Sounds like the Colts-fan brain trust wants Thornton at RG and Reitz and RT. Same ole right side of the OL, just like last year. How'd that work out for protecting Andrew Luck? We'll have to see if Good can pull as a guard (lateral speed and accuracy is different than straight line). Haeg may be closer to being pro ready than Clark as T (assumed RT, one to move to LT in a couple of years), but both Haeg and Clark have some excellent potential. But potential and $5 may only buy you a cup of coffee. If Good was 2" taller and 20 lbs lighter, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation for RG over RT.

 

The season is almost here and we'll soon see how this all plays out. If the right side of the OL doesn't hold up, and Andrew Luck gets hurt, again ... oh, well, next man up.

 

 

Not sure how much the guards will be asked to pull in this scheme, but I don't think it will be much of an issue.  The level of competition from high school to the NFL is way different, but to me pulling is pulling.  The clips are funny as hell, but looking at some of his high school film he pulls quite a bit from the left tackle position and does it with quite a bit of physicality and balance.  I don't think movement will be his problem if asked to pull.

[Gavin]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

Not sure how much the guards will be asked to pull in this scheme, but I don't think it will be much of an issue.  The level of competition from high school to the NFL is way different, but to me pulling is pulling.  The clips are funny as hell, but looking at some of his high school film he pulls quite a bit from the left tackle position and does it with quite a bit of physicality and balance.  I don't think movement will be his problem if asked to pull.

Could be as the season goes along at his weight. Also remember he was up and down at times at RT last year. Gaining a PFF grade of 43.1 as a pass blocker but much higher as a run blocker at 85.8. I still think Thornton starts but if he struggles or gets injured its Goodes job I think

[krunk]

9 hours ago, Gavin said:

Could be as the season goes along at his weight. Also remember he was up and down at times at RT last year. Gaining a PFF grade of 43.1 as a pass blocker but much higher as a run blocker at 85.8. I still think Thornton starts but if he struggles or gets injured its Goodes job I think

 

Overall I'd agree.  I think he was pretty consistent as a pass blocker at Tackle other than that Jacksonville game.  I expected some struggle though coming from Mars Hill.

[krunk]

9 hours ago, Gavin said:

Could be as the season goes along at his weight. Also remember he was up and down at times at RT last year. Gaining a PFF grade of 43.1 as a pass blocker but much higher as a run blocker at 85.8. I still think Thornton starts but if he struggles or gets injured its Goodes job I think

He could stand to lose some weight, but he's always been around 340 to 350 so it's what he's used to.   It's a very long season though so his body will tell him what's best.  Of course the coaches will too.

[richard pallo]

I really think Thornton has to get back in the mix fast.  I know he's pencilled in as the starter and he's a good player when healthy but that's his problem.  He can't stay healthy.  The more playing time the rookies and other players receive over him the tougher it gets.  His lack of availability could be his downfall, and even a roster spot, if the rookies stand out in his absence. 

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I really think Thornton has to get back in the mix fast.  I know he's pencilled in as the starter and he's a good player when healthy but that's his problem.  He can't stay healthy.  The more playing time the rookies and other players receive over him the tougher it gets.  His lack of availability could be his downfall, and even a roster spot, if the rookies stand out in his absence. 

 

Along with the weight loss, he's supposedly eating better nutritionally.  That could help him in the injury department.  Like you pointed out, this is probably his make or break year.

 

Good is a massive human being.  That doesn't mean he's a good lineman, but I bet Philbin will get everything he can from him.  I'd love to see that guy plowing the road for Gore.

[JPFolks]

On 8/6/2016 at 4:48 PM, Gavin said:

your on but if Thornton is healthy he will be the rg come regular season. He is familiar with all the blitzes/Stunts Guards see....which is exactly why I say playing Guard is just as hard as Tackle if not harder because Tackle your usually only responsible for 1 man and that's a DE or OLB. Good no so much. The line that Tackle is so much harder than Guard is a myth

Well, not so fast. In most cases (Houston as one exception) the best D rushes face off with Tackles.  So blocking Von Miller will always be harder than whoever the guard is assigned to block.  

[Gavin]

3 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, not so fast. In most cases (Houston as one exception) the best D rushes face off with Tackles.  So blocking Von Miller will always be harder than whoever the guard is assigned to block.  

I'd personally rather be responsible for 1 man most of the time even if it is Miller than having to keep my head on a swivel all the time. But that's just me

[Lawrence Owen]

6 hours ago, Gavin said:

I'd personally rather be responsible for 1 man most of the time even if it is Miller than having to keep my head on a swivel all the time. But that's just me

Especially as a young lineman.  you can focus on that 1 guy,  rathar than constantly looking for delays or stunts.  With more experience, the game slows down for you, and you begin to be able to 'see' more of what's going on before it happens.  

[BOTT]

There is a reason tackles are paid more....

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, krunk said:

He could stand to lose some weight, but he's always been around 340 to 350 so it's what he's used to.   It's a very long season though so his body will tell him what's best.  Of course the coaches will too.

 

I'd love to see what Good could be at 325.

 

I think anything above that is not very good weight.     But that may be just me.....

 

 

[Lawrence Owen]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd love to see what Good could be at 325.

 

I think anything above that is not very good weight.     But that may be just me.....

 

 

IDK. on average, i would agree with you, and you may be right.  But weight is a fickle thing to some.  He has played this size his entire life.  It's not like he came into the NFL and got lazy.  Loosing that weight may lead to less power behind his blocks, or an imbalance in his footwork.  I have lost weight before and felt 'not right', so i put it back on.  (granted i went from 255-235, and don't play a professional sport)

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

IDK. on average, i would agree with you, and you may be right.  But weight is a fickle thing to some.  He has played this size his entire life.  It's not like he came into the NFL and got lazy.  Loosing that weight may lead to less power behind his blocks, or an imbalance in his footwork.  I have lost weight before and felt 'not right', so i put it back on.  (granted i went from 255-235, and don't play a professional sport)

 

First,   I didn't call him lazy.     And I doubt he is.    But I think he's the victim of what happens with most young players.      They think that by playing at the highest level,  what made them successful in the past isn't enough, so they think they need to get bigger to succeed in the NFL.    Very, very common for young players.

 

And, in many cases,  they learn that too much weight is bad for them.    And I'm not just talking about big lineman.     I'm talking about RB's and WR's and other positions too.     It happens.

 

And I don't know where you got that Good has "played this size his entire life?     355, his entire life?    Huh?

 

When we drafted Good,  the Mars Hill website listed him at 320.      The Colts listed him at 330.

 

Then,   he makes the team and is listed at 340.     That was last year. 

 

This year..........     355.

 

He's been getting bigger and bigger over the last 2-3 years.     I think it's a mistake.

 

There's a good reason why very few players in the NFL weight this much.     It's simply too much.

 

 

[Lawrence Owen]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First,   I didn't call him lazy.     And I doubt he is.    But I think he's the victim of what happens with most young players.      They think that by playing at the highest level,  what made them successful in the past isn't enough, so they think they need to get bigger to succeed in the NFL.    Very, very common for young players.

 

And, in many cases,  they learn that too much weight is bad for them.    And I'm not just talking about big lineman.     I'm talking about RB's and WR's and other positions too.     It happens.

 

And I don't know where you got that Good has "played this size his entire life?     355, his entire life?    Huh?

 

When we drafted Good,  the Mars Hill website listed him at 320.      The Colts listed him at 330.

 

Then,   he makes the team and is listed at 340.     That was last year. 

 

This year..........     355.

 

He's been getting bigger and bigger over the last 2-3 years.     I think it's a mistake.

 

There's a good reason why very few players in the NFL weight this much.     It's simply too much.

 

 

I'm not, and never was saying that 'you' were saying he got lazy. Or is lazy.  Your listings are correct, and I am not disputing this.   But here is why i said that he has played at this 'weight' his whole life.

#1: At the age he is/was, your body is not really 'done' filling out ussually.  Generally you have a couple more years of girth growth.  So this would be a normal thing for one his age. 

#2: Were you ever 'heavy' by popular conception? And then go into a serious workout routine? I've been in sports and had friends in this predicament before.   Ask around and you would find that many who are in a predicament like that, actually gain weight rather than loose it, especially at first.   Since muscle weighs more than fat it is quite typical to gain weight when you work harder.  Especially when you were working already to begin with.  So perhaps this is what is going on.   

    I figure if he was gaining "non-helpful" , or non-expected weight, the trainers and coaches would be all over him. They probably have expected his weight to go up, and probably by design.  If not, then the coaches and trainers would probably be in his ear, (and his face) 24/7.   Just my thoughts.

(and i appologize if you think i was trying to put words in your mouth, that was not my intention, i just didn't explain myself as well as i should have)

[Valpo2004]

On 8/5/2016 at 8:42 PM, aaron11 said:

well hes gone now but newsome was decent for a fifth rounder

 

Newsome had one good year and then had a terrible year.  Not that much of a steal really. 

[krunk]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd love to see what Good could be at 325.

 

I think anything above that is not very good weight.     But that may be just me.....

 

 

Some peoples frames can hold more than others.  I think if he can play at 355 more power to him because he'll be bulldozing over people.  325 is a nice athletic figure though.  Maybe 330-335 for him.  I mean the guy is 6'5" so he can carry some weight.  Don't have any problems with the weight you listed though.  If he wins the starting job I can't wait to see Good and Kelly double team somebody!  Kelly is already huge for center.  He's basically a guard playing the center position.  He's an inch shorter than Good.

[Lawrence Owen]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/08/10/insider-colts-lineman-denzelle-good-good-enough/88529834/

 

Another article about Good.  This one more in depth. a few notable cuts from it: 

 

Right guard was the weakest link. Has been for a while. So they asked Denzelle Good, the seventh-round pick out of the tiny school who only played tackle for them last season, if he wanted it.

“I felt like I was up for the challenge,” Good says.

For now, the job is his. Hugh Thornton, Good’s chief competition, is still battling a foot injury three weeks into the most important training camp of his Colts career. Still, Good has yet to start a game at the guard spot, and has yet to face real competition. It’s only Aug. 10. So much can change.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Consider what General Manager Ryan Grigson said of Good at last spring’s NFL owner’s meetings: “I think Denzelle Good could play about any spot he wants … he blocked people in ways that you don’t typically see a rookie, let alone anyone, block — in terms of finishing, raw power and athleticism.”

 

[Lawrence Owen]

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/08/15/denzelle-good-lastest-news-injury-update/

Good to know the injury was not serious at all. He made the next practice.  Especially considering they signed a OG from Bears after Hugh was deemed"Week-toWeek" and IMO won't make the first cuts now.