McShay's Tiered Rankings Through 3rd Round Grades

[OffensivelyPC]

 

 

Tier 1

This is the elite class of prospects in the 2016 NFL draft. They should be starters from Day 1 and project as perennial Pro Bowl players.

1. Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State (Grade: 96)
2. Laremy Tunsil, OT, Mississippi (95)
3. DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon (95)

Tier 2

A notch below the elite class but still worthy of a top-20 pick in most drafts. Expected to be plug-and-play starters

4. Jalen Ramsey, CB, Florida State (94)
5. Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State (92)
6. Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame (92)
7. Vernon Hargreaves III, CB, Florida (92)
8. Myles Jack, OLB, UCLA (92)
9. Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (92)
10. Jared Goff, QB, Cal (92)

Tier 3

These players carry late first-round grades.

11. Jack Conklin, OT, Michigan State (91)
12. Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama (91)
13. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Mississippi (91)
14. Darron Lee, OLB, Ohio State (91)
15. Jarran Reed, DT, Alabama (91)
16. Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville (91)
17. Shaq Lawson, DE, Clemson (90)
18. Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor (90)
19. Taylor Decker, OT, Ohio State (90)
20. Leonard Floyd, OLB, Georgia (90)
21. Josh Doctson, WR, TCU (90)

Tier 4

Would rather not reach for these prospects late in the first round, but they're good value picks in the first half of Round 2.

22. Vernon Butler, DT, Louisiana Tech (89)
23. Will Fuller, WR, Notre Dame (89)
24. Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame (89)
25. Vonn Bell, S, Ohio State (89)
26. Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State (89)
27. Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis (89)
28. Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Mississippi (88)
29. Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor (88)
30. Germain Ifedi, OT, Texas A&M (88)
31. Kamalei Correa, OLB, Boise State (88)
32. Chris Jones, DT, Mississippi State (88)
33. Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas (88)
34. Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson (88)
35. A'Shawn Robinson, DT, Alabama (87)
36. Austin Johnson, DT, Penn State (87)
37. Noah Spence, OLB, Eastern Kentucky (87)
38. Karl Joseph, S, West Virginia (87)
39. Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama (86)
40. Connor Cook, QB, Michigan State (86)
41. Kevin Dodd, DE, Clemson (86)
42. Kendall Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech (86)
43. Adolphus Washington, DT, Ohio State (86)
44. Emmanuel Ogbah, DE, Oklahoma State (86)

Tier 5

These players are middle or late second-round prospects.

45. Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA (84)
46. William Jackson III, CB, Houston (84)
47. Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State (84)
48. Jason Spriggs, OT, Indiana (84)
49. Keanu Neal, S, Florida (84)
50. Jerell Adams, TE, South Carolina (83)
51. Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma (82)
52. Hassan Ridgeway, DT, Texas (82)
53. Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State (81)
54. Braxton Miller, WR, Ohio State (81)
55. Joshua Garnett, OG, Stanford (80)
56. Derrick Henry, RB, Alabama (80)
57. Jerald Hawkins, OT, LSU (80)
58. Maliek Collins, DT, Nebraska (80)
59. Willie Henry, DT, Michigan (80)
60. Su'a Cravens, S, USC (80)
61. Nick Vannett, TE, Ohio State (80)
62. Will Redmond, CB, Mississippi State (80)

Tier 6

These players are third-round prospects. They could develop into solid starters, but they either have limited upside or come with a higher element of risk than players worth drafting in the first two rounds.

 

63. Artie Burns, CB, Miami (FL) (79)
64. Sheldon Day, DT, Notre Dame (79)
65. Pharoh Cooper, WR, South Carolina (79)
66. Jeremy Cash, S, Duke (79)
67. Austin Hooper, TE, Stanford (79)
68. Jordan Jenkins, OLB, Georgia (79)
69. Jihad Ward, DE, Illinois (79)
70. Nick Martin, OC, Notre Dame (79)
71. Carl Nassib, DE, Penn State (78)
72. Leonte Carroo, WR, Rutgers (78)
73. Joshua Perry, ILB, Ohio State (78)
74. Nick Kwiatkoski, ILB, West Virginia (77)
75. Chris Moore, WR, Cincinnati (77)
76. Jacoby Brissett, QB, North Carolina State (77)
77. Antonio Morrison, OLB, Florida (77)
78. Shilique Calhoun, DE, Michigan State (77)
79. Eric Murray, CB, Minnesota (77)
80. Darian Thompson, S, Boise State (77)
81. Tyler Boyd, WR, Pittsburgh (76)
82. Jonathan Bullard, DE, Florida (76)
83. Xavien Howard, CB, Baylor (76)
84. Nile Lawrence-Stample, DT, Florida State (76)
85. Jalen Mills, S, LSU (76)
86. Kenneth Dixon, RB, Louisiana Tech (75)
87. Cyrus Jones, CB, Alabama (75)
88. Deion Jones, OLB, LSU (75)
89. Cody Whitehair, OG, Kansas State (74)
90. Jordan Howard, RB, Indiana (74)
91. Zack Sanchez, CB, Oklahoma (74)
92. Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas (73)
93. Miles Killebrew, S, Southern Utah (73)
94. D.J. Reader, DT, Clemson (73)
95. Charles Tapper, Oklahoma (73)
96. D.J. White, CB, Georgia Tech (73)
97. Bronson Kaufusi, DE, BYU (72)
98. Shon Coleman, OT, Auburn (71)
99. Briean Boddy-Calhoun, CB, Minnesota (70)
100. Deon Bush, S, Miami (FL) (70)
101. B.J. Goodson, ILB, Clemson (70)
102. Paul Perkins, RB, UCLA (70)
103. Joe Schobert, OLB, Wisconsin (70)
104. Chris Westerman, OG, Arizona State (70)

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Just posting for fun.  The talent appears to drop off substantially after about the top 21 according to McShay, which I kind of agree with (another reason I'm not in favor of trading down by the way).

[Surge89]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Just posting for fun.  The talent appears to drop off substantially after about the top 21 according to McShay, which I kind of agree with (another reason I'm not in favor of trading down by the way).

 

I agree with almost all of it except Jackson III.  I see him with higher value than Eli Apple.

[stitches]

I'd love it if we can get Bullard in the third, but I don't believe he will be there. Hell I'd love it if we can get him in the second, too...

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

anyone else notice that in the top 5 tiers there is only one ILB and one RB...  utilizing this as a tool to draft, the Colts would be smart in drafting either Elliot or Ragland in the 1st...  all other positions are deep in comparison.

[NewColtsFan]

 

This is a newly revised and updated list....      some interesting names have moved up AND down......

 

I'm running out the door now,   but I'll comment on those names later today.....    but some have really caught my eye....

 

Oh,   and thanks to OPC for posting this....   

 

 

[That Guy]

Billings at #18...  It's almost TOO perfect...

[loudnproudcolt]

I can't believe he has Cody Whitehair in the 3rd round. I have seen him no lower than mid 2nd. If McShay is right, there will be some real value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. My question is, if Martin is 3rd round talent with limited upside at center position, then it puts us in a pickle about Kelly. He has him rated lower than I have seen. In the end, you have your own rankings and stand by them. It will be interesting!

 

One more thing: I wonder how many of the guys Nkemdiche, Spence, who seem destined for the first round fall. I think in this draft the smart play is to look for players falling than ascending in this draft. Lot of talent with iffy characteristic traits.

[Surge89]

17 minutes ago, loudnproudcolt said:

I can't believe he has Cody Whitehair in the 3rd round. I have seen him no lower than mid 2nd. If McShay is right, there will be some real value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. My question is, if Martin is 3rd round talent with limited upside at center position, then it puts us in a pickle about Kelly. He has him rated lower than I have seen. In the end, you have your own rankings and stand by them. It will be interesting!

 

One more thing: I wonder how many of the guys Nkemdiche, Spence, who seem destined for the first round fall. I think in this draft the smart play is to look for players falling than ascending in this draft. Lot of talent with iffy characteristic traits.

 

Kelly is right where he should be. Bottom of the 2nd.  He is slightly above average at a position that is not premier.  Everyone mocking in the first and trying to link him to us have no clue what the draft is about nor how it works.

[loudnproudcolt]

4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Kelly is right where he should be. Bottom of the 2nd.  He is slightly above average at a position that is not premier.  Everyone mocking in the first and trying to link him to us have no clue what the draft is about nor how it works.

I am not going to argue the merits of Kelly, since all I have to go on is his college career, and all his accomplishments. I am not a scout. I see players I like, and I look at our needs. What I will argue about, the center position not being premier. I won't get into semantics about what premier means, but the center is the glue of the line. He is incredibly important. When Pitt drafted Pouncey in the first, before we knew what kind of player he would be, did you think picking a center when they did was a bad choice. How about Miami. I look at how we have

struggled with our line, and the revolving center play is one of the top reasons. Saturday may have not been

incredibly athletic, but he made up with it in intelligence. We underestimate how important that relationship is

to the line and the QB, IMHO only.

[COLTS449]

Man. If we could come out of this draft with Cody Whitehair in the 3rd......................................................................................

[COLTS449]

IMO. Nick Martin will be a better Center than Ryan Kelly. I also think Westerman can be a really good Center. He seems like a great fit at either Center or Guard in our ZBS. Getting him or Martin to pair with Cody Whitehair would be pretty awesome.

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, loudnproudcolt said:

I am not going to argue the merits of Kelly, since all I have to go on is his college career, and all his accomplishments. I am not a scout. I see players I like, and I look at our needs. What I will argue about, the center position not being premier. I won't get into semantics about what premier means, but the center is the glue of the line. He is incredibly important. When Pitt drafted Pouncey in the first, before we knew what kind of player he would be, did you think picking a center when they did was a bad choice. How about Miami. I look at how we have

struggled with our line, and the revolving center play is one of the top reasons. Saturday may have not been

incredibly athletic, but he made up with it in intelligence. We underestimate how important that relationship is

to the line and the QB, IMHO only.

 

Your talking about importance to a team.  Yes the center is important.  But when we talk Premier in the NFL Draft we are talking about simple supply and demand.  The amount of players to have an impact at center usually far exceed the number of impact players at positions such as pass rusher, corner, QB, receiver and DT/OT.

 

Because of the rarity the value increases.

 

Apologies hit submit before I finished.  No I didn't think it was a bad pick for the steelers but that didn't have to do with his position but the fact that his talent level warranted a very high pick.  

 

For example a lot of people are on the Spence train right now even calling him a top 10 pick.  But when you compare his ability to that of say Khalil Mack do you see a comparable talent level? If you do the. You are justified but I'd disagree.  So his value would put him at the end of the first on talent alone.  Add in his off the field issues and I can easily see him in the 2nd.

 

Anyways the point I'm making is just because he's a center doesn't mean he can't be drafted in the first but the talent needs to warrant that said pick. If it doesn't you are better off drafting a center later that you can get your value for.

[jim scheurich]

5 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Just posting for fun.  The talent appears to drop off substantially after about the top 21 according to McShay, which I kind of agree with (another reason I'm not in favor of trading down by the way).

Looks like a lot of D talent around #18. IM still hoping to get o-line. Might be lost cause.

[NewColtsFan]

53 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Your talking about importance to a team.  Yes the center is important.  But when we talk Premier in the NFL Draft we are talking about simple supply and demand.  The amount of players to have an impact at center usually far exceed the number of impact players at positions such as pass rusher, corner, QB, receiver and DT/OT.

 

Because of the rarity the value increases.

 

Apologies hit submit before I finished.  No I didn't think it was a bad pick for the steelers but that didn't have to do with his position but the fact that his talent level warranted a very high pick.  

 

For example a lot of people are on the Spence train right now even calling him a top 10 pick.  But when you compare his ability to that of say Khalil Mack do you see a comparable talent level? If you do the. You are justified but I'd disagree.  So his value would put him at the end of the first on talent alone.  Add in his off the field issues and I can easily see him in the 2nd.

 

Anyways the point I'm making is just because he's a center doesn't mean he can't be drafted in the first but the talent needs to warrant that said pick. If it doesn't you are better off drafting a center later that you can get your value for.

 

There are other considerations involved here....

 

This is going to be year 5 for Andrew Luck and he's yet to take a snap from a really good Center.

 

Now Grigson has repeatedly said that he's been a part of three different franchises and ALL of them have reached a Super Bowl with a Free Agent at Center.  (Indy, Philly, St. L)   So, he clearly thinks he can win with a FA center.

 

That said,  he invested a 4 in Khalid Holmes and thought he had the perfect center for the Colts,  but Holmes has yet to pan out.     Maybe he does this year, but he's still a big question mark.

 

So, if we wait until the 4th round again,  and take a guy like Allen at Michigan State or someone else on that level and that guy doesn't work out as well --- the franchise looks like it can't walk and chew gum at the same time.    We HAVE to hit on a Center.     Failure is not an option.    Jobs are on the line if we're drafting a center.     

 

It's why I'm OK if we trade back a bit and take Kelly in the late first round.     Or take a Center in the 2nd.    We have to demonstrate that we're making a commitment to the position.    Another 4th rounder only works if the guy pans out.     But if he doesn't.....     then lots of people inside Colts HQ will be updating their resume's and cover letters as they look for new jobs....

 

 

[SP_21]

Don't really agree with much on this list... pretty terrible IMO

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

 

Tier 1

This is the elite class of prospects in the 2016 NFL draft. They should be starters from Day 1 and project as perennial Pro Bowl players.

1. Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State (Grade: 96)
2. Laremy Tunsil, OT, Mississippi (95)
3. DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon (95)

Tier 2

A notch below the elite class but still worthy of a top-20 pick in most drafts. Expected to be plug-and-play starters

 

4. Jalen Ramsey, CB, Florida State (94)
5. Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State (92)
6. Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame (92)
7. Vernon Hargreaves III, CB, Florida (92)
8. Myles Jack, OLB, UCLA (92)
9. Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (92)
10. Jared Goff, QB, Cal (92)

Tier 3

These players carry late first-round grades.

11. Jack Conklin, OT, Michigan State (91)
12. Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama (91)
13. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Mississippi (91)
14. Darron Lee, OLB, Ohio State (91)
15. Jarran Reed, DT, Alabama (91)
16. Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville (91)
17. Shaq Lawson, DE, Clemson (90)
18. Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor (90)
19. Taylor Decker, OT, Ohio State (90)
20. Leonard Floyd, OLB, Georgia (90)
21. Josh Doctson, WR, TCU (90)

Tier 4

Would rather not reach for these prospects late in the first round, but they're good value picks in the first half of Round 2.

22. Vernon Butler, DT, Louisiana Tech (89)
23. Will Fuller, WR, Notre Dame (89)
24. Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame (89)
25. Vonn Bell, S, Ohio State (89)
26. Eli Apple, CB, Ohio State (89)
27. Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis (89)
28. Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Mississippi (88)
29. Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor (88)
30. Germain Ifedi, OT, Texas A&M (88)
31. Kamalei Correa, OLB, Boise State (88)
32. Chris Jones, DT, Mississippi State (88)
33. Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas (88)
34. Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson (88)
35. A'Shawn Robinson, DT, Alabama (87)
36. Austin Johnson, DT, Penn State (87)
37. Noah Spence, OLB, Eastern Kentucky (87)
38. Karl Joseph, S, West Virginia (87)
39. Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama (86)
40. Connor Cook, QB, Michigan State (86)
41. Kevin Dodd, DE, Clemson (86)
42. Kendall Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech (86)
43. Adolphus Washington, DT, Ohio State (86)
44. Emmanuel Ogbah, DE, Oklahoma State (86)

Tier 5

These players are middle or late second-round prospects.

45. Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA (84)
46. William Jackson III, CB, Houston (84)
47. Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State (84)
48. Jason Spriggs, OT, Indiana (84)
49. Keanu Neal, S, Florida (84)
50. Jerell Adams, TE, South Carolina (83)
51. Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma (82)
52. Hassan Ridgeway, DT, Texas (82)
53. Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State (81)
54. Braxton Miller, WR, Ohio State (81)
55. Joshua Garnett, OG, Stanford (80)
56. Derrick Henry, RB, Alabama (80)
57. Jerald Hawkins, OT, LSU (80)
58. Maliek Collins, DT, Nebraska (80)
59. Willie Henry, DT, Michigan (80)
60. Su'a Cravens, S, USC (80)
61. Nick Vannett, TE, Ohio State (80)
62. Will Redmond, CB, Mississippi State (80)

Tier 6

These players are third-round prospects. They could develop into solid starters, but they either have limited upside or come with a higher element of risk than players worth drafting in the first two rounds.

 

63. Artie Burns, CB, Miami (FL) (79)
64. Sheldon Day, DT, Notre Dame (79)
65. Pharoh Cooper, WR, South Carolina (79)
66. Jeremy Cash, S, Duke (79)
67. Austin Hooper, TE, Stanford (79)
68. Jordan Jenkins, OLB, Georgia (79)
69. Jihad Ward, DE, Illinois (79)
70. Nick Martin, OC, Notre Dame (79)
71. Carl Nassib, DE, Penn State (78)
72. Leonte Carroo, WR, Rutgers (78)
73. Joshua Perry, ILB, Ohio State (78)
74. Nick Kwiatkoski, ILB, West Virginia (77)
75. Chris Moore, WR, Cincinnati (77)
76. Jacoby Brissett, QB, North Carolina State (77)
77. Antonio Morrison, OLB, Florida (77)
78. Shilique Calhoun, DE, Michigan State (77)
79. Eric Murray, CB, Minnesota (77)
80. Darian Thompson, S, Boise State (77)
81. Tyler Boyd, WR, Pittsburgh (76)
82. Jonathan Bullard, DE, Florida (76)
83. Xavien Howard, CB, Baylor (76)
84. Nile Lawrence-Stample, DT, Florida State (76)
85. Jalen Mills, S, LSU (76)
86. Kenneth Dixon, RB, Louisiana Tech (75)
87. Cyrus Jones, CB, Alabama (75)
88. Deion Jones, OLB, LSU (75)
89. Cody Whitehair, OG, Kansas State (74)
90. Jordan Howard, RB, Indiana (74)
91. Zack Sanchez, CB, Oklahoma (74)
92. Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas (73)
93. Miles Killebrew, S, Southern Utah (73)
94. D.J. Reader, DT, Clemson (73)
95. Charles Tapper, Oklahoma (73)
96. D.J. White, CB, Georgia Tech (73)
97. Bronson Kaufusi, DE, BYU (72)
98. Shon Coleman, OT, Auburn (71)
99. Briean Boddy-Calhoun, CB, Minnesota (70)
100. Deon Bush, S, Miami (FL) (70)
101. B.J. Goodson, ILB, Clemson (70)
102. Paul Perkins, RB, UCLA (70)
103. Joe Schobert, OLB, Wisconsin (70)
104. Chris Westerman, OG, Arizona State (70)

 

If we end up with Billings and Spriggs, I don't think anyone in here would be mad. That is what this Board is showing in the numbered spots.

[COLTS449]

I don't see Kelly as an elite, all pro caliber center like Fredrick, Mack, Mangold, etc. So we shouldn't draft him in the first round period. We can get our starting center in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round. Martin, Westerman, Allen, Boehm, and I guess maybe Seumalo. Another guy is Max Tuerk. I'm not a fan of his really. But maybe in a ZBS he could turn into a good starting Center or Guard. But the ZBS is why I've been wondering if we might just draft Tuerk. He's like the prototypical G/C for a ZBS. Westerman is another guy who seems perfect for a ZBS. According to this list I'd love to get Whitehair in the 3rd to be our RG for the next 8 years or so, and Westerman to be our Center. Whether we had to trade back into the 3rd to grab Westerman or not.

 

Castanzo-Mewhort-Westerman-Whitehair-Good....With Thornton, Reitz, Holmes, and whoever else backing up should be a beast offensive line with pretty good depth.

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, The Lucky Neck Beard said:

anyone else notice that in the top 5 tiers there is only one ILB and one RB...  utilizing this as a tool to draft, the Colts would be smart in drafting either Elliot or Ragland in the 1st...  all other positions are deep in comparison.

That line of thinking is a terrible one

[Surge89]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are other considerations involved here....

 

This is going to be year 5 for Andrew Luck and he's yet to take a snap from a really good Center.

 

Now Grigson has repeatedly said that he's been a part of three different franchises and ALL of them have reached a Super Bowl with a Free Agent at Center.  (Indy, Philly, St. L)   So, he clearly thinks he can win with a FA center.

 

That said,  he invested a 4 in Khalid Holmes and thought he had the perfect center for the Colts,  but Holmes has yet to pan out.     Maybe he does this year, but he's still a big question mark.

 

So, if we wait until the 4th round again,  and take a guy like Allen at Michigan State or someone else on that level and that guy doesn't work out as well --- the franchise looks like it can't walk and chew gum at the same time.    We HAVE to hit on a Center.     Failure is not an option.    Jobs are on the line if we're drafting a center.     

 

It's why I'm OK if we trade back a bit and take Kelly in the late first round.     Or take a Center in the 2nd.    We have to demonstrate that we're making a commitment to the position.    Another 4th rounder only works if the guy pans out.     But if he doesn't.....     then lots of people inside Colts HQ will be updating their resume's and cover letters as they look for new jobs....

 

 

 

I'll address in sections k?

 

I'm of the opinion of Luck is going to be paid like he is going to be he does not need to play behind a great center.  He needs to learn to read the game and get rid of the ball faster.  Imo though the Colts FO may completely disagree.

 

I don't think he thinks he can win a super bowl with a FA center but I'll touch this later.

 

I'm on board with giving Holmes a chance (as you know) but I also agree with improving if the value is there which again I'll touch next.

 

Again you are pigeon holding centers to a certain place in the draft.  That is not the case.  I'm fine with taking Kelly if the value is there.  Again the FO might not agree with me at all but taking Kelly at the end of the first is a reach and miss on actual impact talent. Now if he's there in the 2nd? All over it.

 

If he drafts a 4th round center and he doesn't pan out (which is hard to even make that statement) I still doubt he loses his job.  Now if the team starts to not perform as expected than I can see it.  Again this may be because I expect to much from Luck but imo Luck needs to make this work.  And I think he will now that he will have legitimate coaching for the offense.  With that knowledge I don't have center as high of a priority as everyone else does.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

 

I'll address in sections k?

 

I'm of the opinion of Luck is going to be paid like he is going to be he does not need to play behind a great center.  He needs to learn to read the game and get rid of the ball faster.  Imo though the Colts FO may completely disagree.

 

I don't think he thinks he can win a super bowl with a FA center but I'll touch this later.

 

I'm on board with giving Holmes a chance (as you know) but I also agree with improving if the value is there which again I'll touch next.

 

Again you are pigeon holding centers to a certain place in the draft.  That is not the case.  I'm fine with taking Kelly if the value is there.  Again the FO might not agree with me at all but taking Kelly at the end of the first is a reach and miss on actual impact talent. Now if he's there in the 2nd? All over it.

 

If he drafts a 4th round center and he doesn't pan out (which is hard to even make that statement) I still doubt he loses his job.  Now if the team starts to not perform as expected than I can see it.  Again this may be because I expect to much from Luck but imo Luck needs to make this work.  And I think he will now that he will have legitimate coaching for the offense.  With that knowledge I don't have center as high of a priority as everyone else does.

 

Sorry.....    I need to be more clear.

 

No one will lose a job simply because a 4th round center doesn't pan out.

 

They'd lose jobs because the middle of the offensive line will continue to suck and Luck will continue to be under relentless pressure and the running game will continue to underachieve and the team will too.   The team will get bounced out of the playoffs early on and that will make Irsay snap.

 

If the center sucks and yet we somehow win and do well and make a deep run into the playoffs then heads will likely not roll.      But if the o-line continues to under perform and it's viewed as the biggest reason why the Colts aren't doing better,  THEN all bets are off....

 

Hope that clarifies.....      Sorry I wasn't more clear....

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 3/23/2016 at 1:46 PM, OffensivelyPC said:

Just posting for fun.  The talent appears to drop off substantially after about the top 21 according to McShay, which I kind of agree with (another reason I'm not in favor of trading down by the way).

 

Reasonable.  I heard Gil Brandt state on the radio there are only about 16 round 1 quality players and those from 17 through 52 appear somewhat equal in talent and value.  Then there's another drop off, but still talent is backloaded.

 

Pat's don't have a round 1 pick, thus his statement to Patriots.com-

 

“This is a draft that’s a Patriot draft,” Brandt told Patriots.com. “There’s not really many first-rounders. There’s a lot of guys that are in the category of 20 to 50. You don’t have 28 (true) first-rounders, so the (teams) who do their homework are going to do pretty well, because all these (players) look the same.”
 

[MTC]

Why is A'Shawn Robinson so low?

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 3/24/2016 at 9:03 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry.....    I need to be more clear.

 

No one will lose a job simply because a 4th round center doesn't pan out.

 

They'd lose jobs because the middle of the offensive line will continue to suck and Luck will continue to be under relentless pressure and the running game will continue to underachieve and the team will too.   The team will get bounced out of the playoffs early on and that will make Irsay snap.

 

If the center sucks and yet we somehow win and do well and make a deep run into the playoffs then heads will likely not roll.      But if the o-line continues to under perform and it's viewed as the biggest reason why the Colts aren't doing better,  THEN all bets are off....

 

Hope that clarifies.....      Sorry I wasn't more clear....

 

 

Irsay had a long meeting with Chuck and Ryan.  At the end of it, he gave them 4 year extensions virtually stabilizing the organization  for many years.  Irsay even stated they were "contractually tied"  together, and coaches / GM contracts are completely and fully guaranteed, unlike player contracts. They are signed through the 2019 season.

 

So heads rolling in private meetings may happen, but firings so soon in the contract I can't foresee under most any circumstance.

[OffensivelyPC]

52 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Reasonable.  I heard Gil Brandt state on the radio there are only about 16 round 1 quality players and those from 17 through 52 appear somewhat equal in talent and value.  Then there's another drop off, but still talent is backloaded.

 

Pat's don't have a round 1 pick, thus his statement to Patriots.com-

 

“This is a draft that’s a Patriot draft,” Brandt told Patriots.com. “There’s not really many first-rounders. There’s a lot of guys that are in the category of 20 to 50. You don’t have 28 (true) first-rounders, so the (teams) who do their homework are going to do pretty well, because all these (players) look the same.”
 

I think that's Grigson's forte as well.  Hasn't done jack with our first rounders outside of Luck (jury still out on Dorsett), but he's been awfully successful in rounds 2-5.

[ColtsBlueFL]

59 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I think that's Grigson's forte as well.  Hasn't done jack with our first rounders outside of Luck (jury still out on Dorsett), but he's been awfully successful in rounds 2-5.

 

Agree. If Grigs hits on round one, the whole draft could come up roses based upon history.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Irsay had a long meeting with Chuck and Ryan.  At the end of it, he gave them 4 year extensions virtually stabilizing the organization  for many years.  Irsay even stated they were "contractually tied"  together, and coaches / GM contracts are completely and fully guaranteed, unlike player contracts. They are signed through the 2019 season.

 

So heads rolling in private meetings may happen, but firings so soon in the contract I can't foresee under most any circumstance.

 

I don't think Irsay would hesitate to fire them even if they have years on their contracts.    I think new deals only gives them so much protection.     Perhaps two years max if we're under performing.

 

A story surfaced in the last week or two that said Irsay was going to fire Pagano if we had lost the playoff game to Denver where we won.      But had we lost -- Pagano was out, even with a year left on his deal.

 

I'm just saying I think Irsay's patience has limits.....

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 I think new deals only gives them so much protection.     Perhaps two years max if we're under performing.

 

How would they write that into a contract?  Who determines what constitutes under performing?  What quantifiable metric is the benchmark?  Coaches and GM's don't allow that.  Their contracts are fully guaranteed.  Poor performance due to injury, players not caring, bad coaching... doesn't matter.  They either show up to work and get paid, or get fired and get paid.  Then Irsay pays another GM and/or HC while concurrently paying the previous one(s).  It's the way of the coaching world.  And Grigs and Pagano have 4 year deals in place.  It's an easier pill to swallow in year 3 to fire a coach, not year one or 2.  Some statements on coaches contracts by Pat Kirwan-

 

"Once an owner gets an appetite for firing his coach, rather than weathering the storm of a poor season or two, the club is usually headed down a steep cliff with the end result being a bad franchise.

 

When a head coach gets fired they receive the rest of the money in the contract with few exceptions. Occasionally an owner will try and fire a coach with cause. Translation: the owner doesn't want to pay the remaining portion of the contract and thinks he can prove the coach did something to breech the contract.

 

Most NFL head coaches have 'offset' language in their contracts that states if the coach is fired and he takes another job in the NFL as a head coach or assistant, the former team can recoup that portion of his new contract."

 

I think Irsay intrinsically knows the value to coaching staf and club stabilization.  He kept both Griggs and Pagano on when it seemed like or the other (and maybe both) was going to get the boot.

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

How would they write that into a contract?  Who determines what constitutes under performing?  What quantifiable metric is the benchmark?  Coaches and GM's don't allow that.  Their contracts are fully guaranteed.  Poor performance due to injury, players not caring, bad coaching... doesn't matter.  They either show up to work and get paid, or get fired and get paid.  Then Irsay pays another GM and/or HC while concurrently paying the previous one(s).  It's the way of the coaching world.  And Grigs and Pagano have 4 year deals in place.  It's an easier pill to swallow in year 3 to fire a coach, not year one or 2.  Some statements on coaches contracts by Pat Kirwan-

 

"Once an owner gets an appetite for firing his coach, rather than weathering the storm of a poor season or two, the club is usually headed down a steep cliff with the end result being a bad franchise.

 

When a head coach gets fired they receive the rest of the money in the contract with few exceptions. Occasionally an owner will try and fire a coach with cause. Translation: the owner doesn't want to pay the remaining portion of the contract and thinks he can prove the coach did something to breech the contract.

 

Most NFL head coaches have 'offset' language in their contracts that states if the coach is fired and he takes another job in the NFL as a head coach or assistant, the former team can recoup that portion of his new contract."

 

I think Irsay intrinsically knows the value to coaching staf and club stabilization.  He kept both Griggs and Pagano on when it seemed like or the other (and maybe both) was going to get the boot.

What WHAT into a contract?

 

If you're not doing a good job,  you get fired and you get paid off.   

 

It happens every day in sports.

 

If the Colts aren't performing to Irsay's satisfaction he'll fire people and pay them off per the contract.

 

I'm well aware of the rules of a contract.     

 

As for the value of a coaching staff -- the value is zero if Irsay is not happy.    He also knows he has a top QB in Luck and doesn't want to waste those years if he at some point decides that Grigson/Pagano aren't the right guys for the job.       A 4-year contract doesn't guarantee that they get to serve all four years.

 

It only guarantees that they get paid for those years.

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

OK, I thought you were referring to a firing after two years for just cause (under perfoming, however that would be defined) and forgoing the final 2 years payment.  I do agree it is possible, though not probable, that Irsay could pull the plug on the Grigson/Pagano train after 2 years, and eat the money on the final 2 years.  But he will be more involved in day to day operations (sometimes maybe making the final decision on a deadlock, but generally just wanting to be briefed) so knows if the train is on or off track before it gets out of hand, IME.

[throwing BBZ]

McShay has a good feel for this draft.
And i like the names that appear close to us on his current board. lol Go Colts!