The ILB position

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

When we are in pass situations we already had to take D'Qwell off the field and sub in geathers as a Ilb, so obviously that was a problem. If we have another Ilb that has coverage issues then that is another player we have to sub out. With lowery gone we also don't have the depth to be doing things like as liberally as we have been.  

I can't say what defensive plan we are running for our lbs anymore as we have had a lot of coaching changes, but in any scheme at least one Ilb will be counted on to cover a TE or RB, and I have seen D'Qwell get beat time and time again. From what I have read/ watched on Ragland he was getting beat by TEs in college so I'm weary as to his ability to cover NFL caliber TEs.  I'm not saying that pass coverage is a premium on ilbs but you have to have someone to cover TEs and RBs,  and we are left at a major disadvantage if neither Ilb can. A few years ago we had an Ilb named Mario Harvey (I'm sure you remember him). Whenever he was in the game there were a few Teams that switched to hurry up just to exploit the fact that he can't cover. If Teams plan well enough to do that to a part time player, I'm worried about our starters both being two down run stuffers. 

 

You are equating UDFA Mario Harvey to Reggie Ragland, ranked #7 overall by RealFootballNetwork (Pat Kiwan and group) and #13 overall by Scouts Inc. (Todd McShay and group)?  Part time player? The lengths people go to make their point. I counter with this-

 

https://greenbaybobfox.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/a-scouts-take-on-linebacker-reggie-ragland-of-alabama/

 

D'Qwell is less than a million dollar cap hit next year if cut, and likely to miss games this year. He'll also be 33 to 34 years old.  I'd be more interested in the abilities of the other ILB and ROLB linebacking people on the roster more than Ragland if we go that route.  I'd still like a premier ROLB/Edge to land in out lap first.  But if they go Ragland as it appears they possibly may, I've thoroughly studied good NFL minds take on the guy and I'm OK with it. In addition, Manchino will know how exactly how to get the most out of him in his new attacking defense.  But I feel the Bears will take him, with their long lineage of punishing middle backers- Butkus, Singletary, Urlacher, now maybe Ragland.

[ColtRider]

12 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You are equating UDFA Mario Harvey to Reggie Ragland, ranked #7 overall by RealFootballNetwork (Pat Kiwan and group) and #13 overall by Scouts Inc. (Todd McShay and group)?  Part time player? The lengths people go to make their point. I counter with this-

 

https://greenbaybobfox.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/a-scouts-take-on-linebacker-reggie-ragland-of-alabama/

 

D'Qwell is less than a million dollar cap hit next year if cut, and likely to miss games this year. He'll also be 33 to 34 years old.  I'd be more interested in the other ILB and ROLB linebacking people on the roster more than Ragland if we go that route.  I'd still like a premier ROLB/Edge to land in out lap first.  But if they go Ragland as it appears they possibly may, I've thoroughly studied good NFL minds take on the guy and I'm OK with it. In addition, Manchino will know how exactly how to get the most out of him in his new attacking defense.  But I feel the Bears will take him, with their long lineage of punishing middle backers- Butkus, Singletary, Urlacher, now maybe Ragland.

 

This article is a great display and definition of what a very good field general the ILB is supposed to possess on defense. A nice summary from this scout. Ragland fits the bill & more in my mind. He's got a very intense nose for the football & can command a defensive set extremely well. If the Colts have a shot at him, it would behoove them to take him. A very promising LB that can change the course of a game.

[21isSuperman]

27 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You are equating UDFA Mario Harvey to Reggie Ragland, ranked #7 overall by RealFootballNetwork (Pat Kiwan and group) and #13 overall by Scouts Inc. (Todd McShay and group)?  Part time player? The lengths people go to make their point. I counter with this-

 

https://greenbaybobfox.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/a-scouts-take-on-linebacker-reggie-ragland-of-alabama/

 

D'Qwell is less than a million dollar cap hit next year if cut, and likely to miss games this year. He'll also be 33 to 34 years old.  I'd be more interested in the abilities of the other ILB and ROLB linebacking people on the roster more than Ragland if we go that route.  I'd still like a premier ROLB/Edge to land in out lap first.  But if they go Ragland as it appears they possibly may, I've thoroughly studied good NFL minds take on the guy and I'm OK with it. In addition, Manchino will know how exactly how to get the most out of him in his new attacking defense.  But I feel the Bears will take him, with their long lineage of punishing middle backers- Butkus, Singletary, Urlacher, now maybe Ragland.

With Trevathan and Freeman, I don't think they'd spend a first round pick on Ragland

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

With Trevathan and Freeman, I don't think they'd spend a first round pick on Ragland

 

Then they wont get him. (round 2).  I doubt a team like Packers probably passes him up (Clay Matthews to return to OLB).  And with visits to Minnesota Vikings, Buffalo Bills, Jacksonville Jaguars and Baltimore Ravens, one likely won't let him out of the first round if we land a better player at 18 and let Ragland pass us by.

[Coffeedrinker]

I have not watched much Alabama football, so all I have to go on are scouting reports.  And the scouting reports are very favorable

 

Walter Football - Says he's a 3 down LB that is ready to start immediately.

 

CBSSports - Talks about some limitations in coverage but he's is their #1 ILB

 

TheSportsTicker - Compares him to Patrick Willis

 

NFL.com - Says he's good in zone coverage but will struggle in man coverage but compares him to EJ Henderson

 

All in all he's received some pretty lofty praise, and IMO, a guy doesn't start for 3 years in a program like Alabama unless he very, very good.  I think the Colts would be fortunate if they have a chance to draft him.

 

[krunk]

Alabama puts out solid linebackers every year.  People might be able to criticize on some of the DBs from Alabama, but they produce solid DL and LB prospects annually.  If scouts are saying he's a little bit better than C.J. Mosley I'll take him because I was pretty impressed with C.J. Mosley in that Colts vs Ravens game at Lucas Oil Stadium 2 seasons ago.   He's not the only prospect I like, but if the Colts took him I wouldn't fuss about it.

[B~Town]

Everyone complains the Colts need impact players on D now the Colts look at a guy who could start on D and be a impact player and everyone still finds a reason complain . Just be happy they are looking for starters not more project players early in the draft .

[SaturdayAllDay]

5 hours ago, No 1 Manning Fan said:

It may be the Bama homer in me, but I did not see Ragland as a pass defensive liability. He is better run stopper, but he seemed to cover decently. 

He wasn't a complete liability,  but he wasn't good either. That could translate to major problems vs NFL caliber players. Don't get me wrong,  I like Ragland,  I just don't think he has a spot on this team right now. We have D'Qwell as our run stopper and already have a young replacement in Irving. If Ragland can't cover then we leave ourselves in a position where we either can't play him and D'Qwell at the same time,  or we have to rely on him and/or D'Qwell to cover TEs and RBs. We will not be beating the Patriots if that is the case. They beat us with their running game AND quick short passes. If we can't cover,  they shred us through the air instead of the ground. I'd rather take away Brady and Gronk/Edelman then take away James White and Dion Lewis. 

Like I said I like Ragland,  but there should be players who can immediately make a bigger impact on our team available at our first round pick.

[SaturdayAllDay]

5 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You are equating UDFA Mario Harvey to Reggie Ragland, ranked #7 overall by RealFootballNetwork (Pat Kiwan and group) and #13 overall by Scouts Inc. (Todd McShay and group)?  Part time player? The lengths people go to make their point. I counter with this-

 

https://greenbaybobfox.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/a-scouts-take-on-linebacker-reggie-ragland-of-alabama/

 

D'Qwell is less than a million dollar cap hit next year if cut, and likely to miss games this year. He'll also be 33 to 34 years old.  I'd be more interested in the abilities of the other ILB and ROLB linebacking people on the roster more than Ragland if we go that route.  I'd still like a premier ROLB/Edge to land in out lap first.  But if they go Ragland as it appears they possibly may, I've thoroughly studied good NFL minds take on the guy and I'm OK with it. In addition, Manchino will know how exactly how to get the most out of him in his new attacking defense.  But I feel the Bears will take him, with their long lineage of punishing middle backers- Butkus, Singletary, Urlacher, now maybe Ragland.

All I am saying is Harvey was a part time player that didn't get many snaps,  and Teams were still smart enough to key in on him and pick him apart.  Imagine what kind of problems we have with two full time starters that have issues with coverage. I'm not saying he will be comparable to Harvey in ANY way, but with more time on the field will be picked on that much more if he isn't up to par in coverage.  I agree with your statement that we should look at our other lbs if we get Ragland,  but that primarily means D'Qwell.  Is it worth our first round pick to have to choose between Ragland and D'Qwell? I would rather fill a need then create a need to fill by drafting Ragland and cutting D'Qwell. I never once said I don't like Ragland,  and have repeated that sentiment a few times, but I think we are better off getting a similarly ranked CB, G, OLB,  or DL player over him. And I get that D'Qwell isn't a long term solution for us but I honestly think we shouldnt write off Irving as our run stuffing Ilb of the future. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

All I am saying is Harvey was a part time player that didn't get many snaps,  and Teams were still smart enough to key in on him in game and pick him apart.  Imagine what kind of problems we have with two full time starters that have issues with coverage, with a whole week of game planning against them. Im not saying he will be comparable to Harvey in ANY way, but with more time on the field will be picked on that much more if he isn't up to par in coverage.  I agree with your statement that we should look at our other lbs if we get Ragland,  but that primarily means D'Qwell.  Is it worth our first round pick to have to choose between Ragland and D'Qwell? I would rather fill a need then create a need to fill by drafting Ragland and cutting D'Qwell. I never once said I don't like Ragland,  and have repeated that sentiment a few times, but I think we are better off getting a similarly ranked CB, G, OLB,  or DL player over him. And I get that D'Qwell isn't a long term solution for us but I honestly think we shouldnt write off Irving as our run stuffing Ilb of the future. 

 

[jim scheurich]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 4:50 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

How good have our ILB's been at stopping the run?  Our DL and ILB needs to finally end this soft  "getting punched in the mouth" vs. the run stuff.  Ragland fits the bill immediately.  So if premier edge guys aren't there at 18 and Ragland is, I'm in.

D needs some help, but in my opinion ilb is one of our better positions. Andrew is probably tired of getting punched in the mouth. More dire need in my opinion is o-line. Cant really afford to hope the line comes around. If Luck is on the sideline this year colts are going to lose games and fans!!

[Lawrence Owen]

Sorry, i still think we have our core ILB's in D.Q. Moore, Irving and Sylvestry.  We need OLB pass rusher , inner o-line, and a starting caliber CB more than ILB..(IMO)

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Sorry, i still think we have our core ILB's in D.Q. Moore, Irving and Sylvestry.  We need OLB pass rusher , inner o-line, and a starting caliber CB more than ILB..(IMO)

 

Maybe, but they are as unproven as our O line, but Pat Kirwan says Colts go with Ronnie Stanley in round 1, so Luck should be happier if that happens.

[SaturdayAllDay]

40 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Maybe, but they are as unproven as our O line, but Pat Kirwan says Colts go with Ronnie Stanley in round 1, so Luck should be happier if that happens.

I wouldn't say Irving and Moore are unproven. They are unproven in our system maybe, but they were both good players for their previous Teams. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

18 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I wouldn't say Irving and Moore are unproven. They are unproven in our system maybe, but they were both good players for their previous Teams. 

 

Yeah, you got my meaning.  To see how they perform in our system.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yeah, you got my meaning.  To see how they perform in our system.

Yah but we are running new coaches with a new system so realistically all of our players are unproven in that respect.