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A 3-4 Defence Might Just Could Happen Next Season


joo 2h

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To anyone saying we don't have the size at DT to play NT in a 3-4.......tell that to Jay Ratliff.

Now obviously Ratliff is better than our DTs, but I think Nevis could definitely play the position if he's healthy. At DE you line up any combo of Moala, Anderson, Brayton, and Mookie. The OLBs in a 3-4 do not try to match up against WRs. It would be like telling a running back to block Jared Allen in pass protection. This just doesn't happen. When the offense goes 3 wide, you go to your Nickel package. You bring out 3 CBs, 4 down linemen, and 2 LBs. A 3-4 is only a base package. It is used typically on first down when the offense has 2 wide, a TE, an H-back, and a running back. The OLBs responsibilty in this formation is to hold up against the run while rushing the QB, or to cover the flat on their side. They guard against a running back or tight end running some little dink and dunk route, they do not try to cover a TE running down the seam.

Freeney has covered the flat before, but he's a pass rusher anyway, he'd only come in for 2nd or 3rd down. When Wade Phillips went to Houston, everyone was all 'How do they expect Mario Williams to play OLB???? He can't cover!!!!' Well he held that position just fine til he got hurt. The good thing about a 3-4, is that you can fill the positions with lesser talent. The dline just has to be strong against the run. The OLBs job is not as hard as a 4-3 DE. The ILBs do not need to be huge as people seem to be thinking. Their job is more in the line of covering TEs. They don't differ a whole lot from any of the 4-3 linebackers jobs. Play the run first, if the TE goes out for a pass, cover him. You don't need to be 260 lbs to play coverage. Angerer is underrated in coverage. He does his job well, it's just that the scheme demands him to drop 20 yards down the field, so the short dumpoff passes are easy to complete. Conner and Angerer would be fine at ILB in a 3-4. I love Wheeler. He can rush the passer, play coverage, and stop the run. He's my favorite linebacker on the team because of his versatility. Hughes is very much an unknown, but I honestly think he'd be a good 3-4 OLB. It's what he played in college so they might as well let him play his natural position.

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To anyone saying we don't have the size at DT to play NT in a 3-4.......tell that to Jay Ratliff.

Now obviously Ratliff is better than our DTs, but I think Nevis could definitely play the position if he's healthy. At DE you line up any combo of Moala, Anderson, Brayton, and Mookie. The OLBs in a 3-4 do not try to match up against WRs. It would be like telling a running back to block Jared Allen in pass protection. This just doesn't happen. When the offense goes 3 wide, you go to your Nickel package. You bring out 3 CBs, 4 down linemen, and 2 LBs. A 3-4 is only a base package. It is used typically on first down when the offense has 2 wide, a TE, an H-back, and a running back. The OLBs responsibilty in this formation is to hold up against the run while rushing the QB, or to cover the flat on their side. They guard against a running back or tight end running some little dink and dunk route, they do not try to cover a TE running down the seam.

Freeney has covered the flat before, but he's a pass rusher anyway, he'd only come in for 2nd or 3rd down. When Wade Phillips went to Houston, everyone was all 'How do they expect Mario Williams to play OLB???? He can't cover!!!!' Well he held that position just fine til he got hurt. The good thing about a 3-4, is that you can fill the positions with lesser talent. The dline just has to be strong against the run. The OLBs job is not as hard as a 4-3 DE. The ILBs do not need to be huge as people seem to be thinking. Their job is more in the line of covering TEs. They don't differ a whole lot from any of the 4-3 linebackers jobs. Play the run first, if the TE goes out for a pass, cover him. You don't need to be 260 lbs to play coverage. Angerer is underrated in coverage. He does his job well, it's just that the scheme demands him to drop 20 yards down the field, so the short dumpoff passes are easy to complete. Conner and Angerer would be fine at ILB in a 3-4. I love Wheeler. He can rush the passer, play coverage, and stop the run. He's my favorite linebacker on the team because of his versatility. Hughes is very much an unknown, but I honestly think he'd be a good 3-4 OLB. It's what he played in college so they might as well let him play his natural position.

Jerry Hughes played mostly DE in college with his hand on the ground. He did rush the passer standing up sometimes though. I just hope that the colts get a quality defensive coordinator who knows how to use the players. I'd like to see Hughes get more time at DE, instead of Brayton playing. I'd also like to see the colts use Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Jerry Hughes on the field at the same time. Hughes could rush from the middle like Von Miller does in those situations. Philip Wheeler is my favorite linebacker on the colts too!

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A 3-4 defense makes sense, if Robert Mathis is not resigned

Since bill has been fired with his son, I feel that a 3-4 style defense could just likely be on the way.

Here is why

Position break down: D-line

If Robert Mathis is gone, Jamaal Anderson could fill the roll of a left side DE in the 3-4 as he is young (25 yr) has a good size of 289 pounds and is 6-6. Jamaal is a good run stopper de

Antonio Johnson could make the switch from DT to Right side DE in the 3-4 style at 310 pounds this might just work out as Johnson has been a big part of the run stopping game over the last 5 weeks of the season, he was making tackles everywhere. You will want your strongest DE on the right as we will be starting a very inexperience ROLB on that side.

For the NT position, this is the void I still fill is the biggest we need to fill on the roster. I feel maybe between Drake Nevis or fili Moala they may be able to play this position, but as I will say again, I still feel this is a spot that we could tackle in the draft/fa if these guys don’t pan out.

LB

MLB Pat Angerer size is fit for this job and this is a no brainer. Some reports say we wont save much cap space cutting Gary bracket so he would have to play the other MLB role here, also Gary is more of a coverage guy then a pure go getter tackler like Angerer.

ROLB

2010 First round pick……. Jerry Hughes- Jerry better be ready to step up and play like a true first round pick. It is said that jerry was always has been a better stand up type of pass rusher. So Fans and the colts are going to expected him to produces.

LOLB

Dwight Freeney. It will take the right coaching staff and training to get this done, as Dwight will have to learn a whole new defence. But just image Dwight doing what Dware is doing in Dallas. Dwight might not be on the field on first down.

FS

Bethea, this spot is already filled and does not need change

SS-> this spot needs to be filled via, the draft/fA will bob sanders being a free agent, we might be able to resign him, for vet min, if he is willing to come back here and we do not find a draft pick ready to step in and play this year. Even if it is for 1 year im sure the fans would welcome him back.

Right side CB J-powers would be our number 1 cb as he is the only solid player we have at the position.

Left Side CB…….Pat McAfee – Pat McAfee has great good footwork, and is a great tackler, He can play the ball in the air, as he uses his feet to get into position for the bat down. He cannot be any worse then the other corners we have on the team…. Ok seriously all jokes aside; this is a position that Jacob lacey would probably have to have, because we simply don’t have anything better. This is a spot we have to hit in the draft this year. It’s a must!, pick up a free agent or do something because this is our weakest position on the field

Discuses

We don't have the talent on defense to make a shift to a 3-4. Houston was able to transition to a 3-4 so smoothly because they had the talent at linebacker already. They had Cushing, Ryans and Barwin already locked into 3 of the 4 linebacker slots, with Williams as a low-risk, high upside transition player. We have Pat Angerer and.... who else? Freeney and Mathis are both set in their ways, and to try to convert them to stand-up pass rushing OLB's this late in their career's would be a disaster. Both of them leave a lot to be desired in the area of tackling, and are unproven in coverage. Those are not ingredients for success for a 3-4 linebacker. Also, Houston used early picks to solidify the d-line and adressed the secondary through free agency. If we plan on using our 1st pick on Luck (which is what is being reported) there's no way we can realistically shift to a 3-4 without dedicating the 1st half of the draft to the shift. We have a bunch of guys who are used to playing 1 gap defense. You can't just move them around based on weight and height, like this is madden or something. An overall bad idea, in my opinion

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We don't have the talent on defense to make a shift to a 3-4. Houston was able to transition to a 3-4 so smoothly because they had the talent at linebacker already. They had Cushing, Ryans and Barwin already locked into 3 of the 4 linebacker slots, with Williams as a low-risk, high upside transition player. We have Pat Angerer and.... who else? Freeney and Mathis are both set in their ways, and to try to convert them to stand-up pass rushing OLB's this late in their career's would be a disaster. Both of them leave a lot to be desired in the area of tackling, and are unproven in coverage. Those are not ingredients for success for a 3-4 linebacker. Also, Houston used early picks to solidify the d-line and adressed the secondary through free agency. If we plan on using our 1st pick on Luck (which is what is being reported) there's no way we can realistically shift to a 3-4 without dedicating the 1st half of the draft to the shift. We have a bunch of guys who are used to playing 1 gap defense. You can't just move them around based on weight and height, like this is madden or something. An overall bad idea, in my opinion

Just so you know, the reason it was easier for the Texans to switch to a 3-4 was because Wade Philips uses a 1-gap scheme, not the traditional 2-gap scheme that most 3-4 defenses use. The 1-gap scheme is what a 4-3 defense uses.

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Just so you know, the reason it was easier for the Texans to switch to a 3-4 was because Wade Philips uses a 1-gap scheme, not the traditional 2-gap scheme that most 3-4 defenses use. The 1-gap scheme is what a 4-3 defense uses.

Yeah, but are you honestly gonna hire Wade Phillips as head coach just to bring that variant of the 3-4 defense in? And as I said, you still can't make a successful shift to a 3-4 (in any form) without talent at linebacker

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I don't know what the fascination is with a 3-4 defense...

But if -- IF -- we were to switch, we'd be better off resigning Mathis and trading Freeney than letting Mathis walk. He's better suited to play the outside linebacker position (assuming it's the Wade Phillips 3-4, which is really a 5-2) than Freeney. Hughes or Wheeler could play the other side. Conner and Angerer would be good in the middle.

Brayton, Moala and Anderson would be okay at end, but not that good. Nevis would be lost if we tried to fit him in a 3-4. He'd be better than the other three at end, but nowhere near as good as he is at 3-tech. AJ did a decent job this year at nose, but he doesn't have the stamina to go all game long against double teams. He's not good enough to anchor a 3-4.

We don't have the personnel to run a 3-4. Perhaps we could acquire the personnel and do a conversion in a year, but I really wouldn't want to try. Even with Wade Phillips. The Texans already had Shaun Cody at nose and Antonio Smith at end, two really good linemen for a 3-4 (Cody will be a free agent). They had really good inside linebackers already. Drafted JJ Watt and Brooks Reed. Paid Johnathan Joseph $50 million. They needed two or three pieces, but already had the most important (nose tackle) and had the cap space to hit free agency to fill one of those pieces. We need two or three pieces, including nose, which is most important, and we don't have the cap space to fill that spot.

I really don't see changing the defense that radically as a good idea at this point. Would be much easier to add another defensive lineman, a safety and a corner, and stay in our four-down defense. It could go from really bad to really good with better coverage in the secondary and an improvement at interior line, and getting away from running so much soft zone coverage.

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Yeah, but are you honestly gonna hire Wade Phillips as head coach just to bring that variant of the 3-4 defense in? And as I said, you still can't make a successful shift to a 3-4 (in any form) without talent at linebacker

You bring in Wade Philips because he is a very good defensive coordinator. And 4-3 personal fits better in a 1-gap scheme 3-4 scheme. The Texans kind of run a 5-2 defense.

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The 4-3 Under is the hybrid 3-4 defense the Colts could use, Giants, Cincy, Denver, Seattle have packages utilizing it. It would allow a fifth man on the LOS. But that SAM LB has to be able to cover a tight end, in addition to rushing the passer and stopping the run.. I could see the Colts utilizing this and having good success.

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The 4-3 Under is the hybrid 3-4 defense the Colts could use, Giants, Cincy, Denver, Seattle have packages utilizing it. It would allow a fifth man on the LOS. But that SAM LB has to be able to cover a tight end, in addition to rushing the passer and stopping the run.. I could see the Colts utilizing this and having good success.

Philip Wheeler is a good SLB, he can do that. And I want a 4-3 that isn't limited, like I've said before. I like the Giants use of the 4-3 the best.

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Exactly. If they wanted to go to a 3-4 they would have to start drafting for it now and in a couple years slowly transition.

I wouldnt take too long. look at Houston, they transitioned this yr to a 34 and they ended up 2nd over all D.They moved Mario to LB as well. just sayin
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Right now I think a 4-3 would be better with the personnel on the roster. There are too many guys on the line right now that would be misplaced. Freeney and Mathis wouldn't be able to fill the gaps needed and are too small. I don't know if this late in their career it would be a good idea to change them to a LB position. Now yes, they are professional football players and they would be able adjust and do the job, but doing the job isn't what we want. Especially with the troubles on the line, you can't have the rest of the front 7 "doing the job". Angerer and Sims I think would be a good fit, but other than that I don't know how proven the rest of the LBs are. Secondary help would be huge. Lacey? Powers? Not gonna happen. And even with those mediocre guys, the depth isn't there either. With the injury prone, so-so DBs we have, the secondary would be torched by a good passing game. Granted, we would dip into free agency (depending on what the new GM wants to do) and dedicate most of the draft to the defense. If the draft is the case, I would see alot of past draft picks that could have been better, being IMO the Colts had in the past picked players they thought would specifically fit into their defense, the (soft) Tampa 2. But, you never know. And I also feel that a high draft pick would have to be used on a defensive player, and I don't know if Irsay and the new GM will want to use that on a defensive player with the two great QBs on the board. Look at how guys like Patrick Peterson enhanced the Cardinals. Great CB and electrified the kick/punt return game. He was 4th or 5th pick last year I believe. A real playmaker guy like that who could make an immediate impact would be someone who would be needed in the draft

Not to say it can't be done in the future if we play our cards right in the free agency market and draft, but now wouldn't be the time with our current roster and position in the draft.

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The 4-3 Under is the hybrid 3-4 defense the Colts could use, Giants, Cincy, Denver, Seattle have packages utilizing it. It would allow a fifth man on the LOS. But that SAM LB has to be able to cover a tight end, in addition to rushing the passer and stopping the run.. I could see the Colts utilizing this and having good success.

I can see a few guys on the roster being able to play that SAM. Wheeler and even Angerer if they want to move him from that MLB position. He played the MLB in our Tampa 2, so he would do a good job being able to cover and getting pressure on the QB.

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The Texans transition from 4-3 to 3-4 was freaky. Those transitions usually take a few years, but they did it in a shortened offseason. Went from 29th ranked D to 2nd ranked D. As someone else already mentioned, they had a lot of talent in place already. Cushing, Ryans, Mario, and Barwin were already in place for easy transitions... Plus, a score in the draft at JJ Watt, who is an absolute monster. It'd work better if we had young pieces in place. Angerer and Jerry Hughes aren't enough

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A 3-4 defense makes sense, if Robert Mathis is not resigned

Since bill has been fired with his son, I feel that a 3-4 style defense could just likely be on the way.

Here is why

Position break down: D-line

If Robert Mathis is gone, Jamaal Anderson could fill the roll of a left side DE in the 3-4 as he is young (25 yr) has a good size of 289 pounds and is 6-6. Jamaal is a good run stopper de

Antonio Johnson could make the switch from DT to Right side DE in the 3-4 style at 310 pounds this might just work out as Johnson has been a big part of the run stopping game over the last 5 weeks of the season, he was making tackles everywhere. You will want your strongest DE on the right as we will be starting a very inexperience ROLB on that side.

For the NT position, this is the void I still fill is the biggest we need to fill on the roster. I feel maybe between Drake Nevis or fili Moala they may be able to play this position, but as I will say again, I still feel this is a spot that we could tackle in the draft/fa if these guys don’t pan out.

LB

MLB Pat Angerer size is fit for this job and this is a no brainer. Some reports say we wont save much cap space cutting Gary bracket so he would have to play the other MLB role here, also Gary is more of a coverage guy then a pure go getter tackler like Angerer.

ROLB

2010 First round pick……. Jerry Hughes- Jerry better be ready to step up and play like a true first round pick. It is said that jerry was always has been a better stand up type of pass rusher. So Fans and the colts are going to expected him to produces.

LOLB

Dwight Freeney. It will take the right coaching staff and training to get this done, as Dwight will have to learn a whole new defence. But just image Dwight doing what Dware is doing in Dallas. Dwight might not be on the field on first down.

FS

Bethea, this spot is already filled and does not need change

SS-> this spot needs to be filled via, the draft/fA will bob sanders being a free agent, we might be able to resign him, for vet min, if he is willing to come back here and we do not find a draft pick ready to step in and play this year. Even if it is for 1 year im sure the fans would welcome him back.

Right side CB J-powers would be our number 1 cb as he is the only solid player we have at the position.

Left Side CB…….Pat McAfee – Pat McAfee has great good footwork, and is a great tackler, He can play the ball in the air, as he uses his feet to get into position for the bat down. He cannot be any worse then the other corners we have on the team…. Ok seriously all jokes aside; this is a position that Jacob lacey would probably have to have, because we simply don’t have anything better. This is a spot we have to hit in the draft this year. It’s a must!, pick up a free agent or do something because this is our weakest position on the field

Discuses

Freeney could not play in a 3-4. Mathis has more ability to do so than Freeney. Wheeler definitely could play OLB in a 3-4 and might be best suited for it actually. Nevis' skills would be completely wasted in a 3-4. Moala on the other hand was projected by many to be best suited in a 3-4 coming out of college. Hughes is a waste in every system, but might be better in a 3-4. He can't be any worse than he is now. Antonio Johnson's problems are effort not system.

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Like I posted before on another topic, I hope that the NFL reverts to more defense friendly. It is hard to watch some of these games. I wouldn't say the offenses have become to good for defenses to handle this year, just that the NFL has become sooo passing friendly that it is ridiculous.

And yes I hope the colts switch to the Giants type of defense.

It's a bit too much really. A QB has too much influence on the game right now.

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The bigger and over whelming problem with the defense is not the system we use it's that we don't have good enough players on defense. People complain about the cover-2 but you know what the Bears run it and last time I checked they were pretty good on defense. The Bucs built one of the best defenses in the league useing that defense. At times even the Colts defense in a cover-2 has been fairly solid. The problem is a lack of talent. Namely in terms of getting turnovers. Yes they could mix up the play calling a little more but the bigger problem is we just need more talent on defense.

With that said without a GM in place I am not saying we are going to stick with the cover-2. I've said it before without a GM in place everything is in play including changing the defensive system but if we do change it I wouldn't expect a quick fix till we get some more play making players on defense.

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Mathis is a better fit at OLB than Freeney and I'd put Nevis at end.

Dwight Freeney is very fast though, faster than Robert Mathis I think. He could play pass rushing OLB if needed, but he would not be asked to play in coverage like Mario Williams and Demarcus Ware aren't asked too, they just rush the passer.

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I'd say we operate a 3-4 next year with the same roster we have now, with the addition of a beast of a Nose Tackle.

Sione Pouha

Antonio 'I throw guards into their QBs' Garay

Aubrayo Franklin

Pat Sims

Paul Soliai

Shaun Rogers

Any of those guys could come in and help make the transition. Not that I think we need to change base defense. I actually prefer a 4-3 myself. What I'd do is bring in one of those guys regardless, and have them play DT in the 4-3 on running downs. Games are won and lost in the trenches and you can not underestimate the power of having a behemoth in there to clog up the run lanes. I know a lot of people like Mookie, but I think we overrate him a little. I'd like a DT rotation of Sione Pouha, Drake Nevis, Fili Moala, and maybe some rookie with a lot of potential.

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I actually could see us closer to being able to switch to a 3-4 defense than people may think. First, we would obviously have to bring in a 3-4 creative minded defensive coach. Then we would have to go out and get a NT either in FA like Paul Soliai, or we would have to draft a guy like Dontari Poe or Josh Chapman.

After that, I think we could move Mathis to OLB and keep him over Freeney since I see Mathis having an easier transition to OLB since he is not quite as big. I still dont think 270 pound guys should play OLB and Freeney is that. So we could either see what we could get in a trade for Freeney after redoing his contract, or just cut him and save a ton of money being able to go out and get other talent.

Then our defense would look something like this in a 3-4...

NT- Dontari Poe, Josh Chapman, or Paul Soliai

DE- Jamaal Anderson, Drake Nevis, or another drafted guy or FA

OLBs- Robert Mathis, Jerry Hughes, Philip Wheeler(All pass rushing guys and all are athletic enough to cover adequetely.)

MLBs- Pat Angerer, Kavell Conner or Drafted guy or FA

CBs- Powers, Rookie

FS- Bethea

SS- Rookie

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I actually could see us closer to being able to switch to a 3-4 defense than people may think. First, we would obviously have to bring in a 3-4 creative minded defensive coach. Then we would have to go out and get a NT either in FA like Paul Soliai, or we would have to draft a guy like Dontari Poe or Josh Chapman.

After that, I think we could move Mathis to OLB and keep him over Freeney since I see Mathis having an easier transition to OLB since he is not quite as big. I still dont think 270 pound guys should play OLB and Freeney is that. So we could either see what we could get in a trade for Freeney after redoing his contract, or just cut him and save a ton of money being able to go out and get other talent.

Then our defense would look something like this in a 3-4...

NT- Dontari Poe, Josh Chapman, or Paul Soliai

DE- Jamaal Anderson, Drake Nevis, or another drafted guy or FA

OLBs- Robert Mathis, Jerry Hughes, Philip Wheeler(All pass rushing guys and all are athletic enough to cover adequetely.)

MLBs- Pat Angerer, Kavell Conner or Drafted guy or FA

CBs- Powers, Rookie

FS- Bethea

SS- Rookie

I agree,

Mathis should get the franches tag and freeney should go. Let's face it, we can't keep them both. Wheeler and huges will come up big on the other side and we need to see what huges can do since we drafted him so high. It's his third year it's time.

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The Colts will NOT change to a 3-4. Our defensive line is very small by 3-4 standard. Our linebackers are tiny, and do not shed blocks easily. Our DB's are lackluster in man coverage and we currently don't have a lot of depth at any position on defense. To switch to a 3-4 with the personnel we currently have would set the team back at least 2 years, easily.

I honestly believe we will be sticking to the Tampa/Dungy-2 for the foreseeable future. It is a solid defensive scheme, with the right personnel, which we truly only had 1 year and that was the year we won the Super Bowl.

I think if we get back on track on addressing defense, which was lacking in the Polian era, I think the defense could be fixed in 1 season.

Unfortunately, the Mathis/Freeney contract situation makes this entire belief a little far fetched.

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Jerry Hughes played mostly DE in college with his hand on the ground. He did rush the passer standing up sometimes though. I just hope that the colts get a quality defensive coordinator who knows how to use the players. I'd like to see Hughes get more time at DE, instead of Brayton playing. I'd also like to see the colts use Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Jerry Hughes on the field at the same time. Hughes could rush from the middle like Von Miller does in those situations. Philip Wheeler is my favorite linebacker on the colts too!

I agree but when I watched tape of him with his hand on the ground a lot of plays he was kinda getting engulfed by OLmen unless he was out wide pass rushing and then he could just use his burst to run around the OL. He is still better suited as a pass rushing OLB.

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A playoff defense is one that can generate sacks to slow down these offenses. The best sacking defense over the last several years has been the 4-3 defense of the Giants.

I would argue that exluding this year, the best sacking defense over the last several years has been the 4-3 defense of none other than our Indianapolis Colts.

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I would argue that exluding this year, the best sacking defense over the last several years has been the 4-3 defense of none other than our Indianapolis Colts.

? It's definitely been the Giants. What do you mean? We hardly blitz so the only players getting lots of sacks are Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.

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