Switching To A 3-4.

[SubZero]

I see alot of people suggesting a defense switch but alot are say maybe a 3-4 defense. As easy as it sounds, there are alot of factors that need to come into play.

First we need two ILBs. This one wouldnt be the biggest problem because we have 3 players fit to play these positions. Angerer, Brackett, and Conner could all play this position and could be good combinations.

Second we need 2 rush OLBs. This would be the easiest one to accomplish. We already have three undersized DEs in Freeney, Mathis, and Hughes. These guys have the tools and could play OLB and give us a crazy good pass rush. Also we have Wheeler who is in the mold of clay mathews and his speciality is to rush the passer.

Third we need 3-4 DEs. This position is tough because they need to supply a decent pass rush but also stop the run. Good players who can fit this is Brayton and Anderson. They can supply a good pass rush and they are big enough to stop the run.

Last we need a good NT. A NT IMO is the heart of a great 3-4 defense. They need to be able to take on double teams and stop the run. A great option would be to draft Alameda Ta'amu out of UW or to sign Paul Soliai or Sione Pua.

[unitaswestand]

I guess the question is, why change to 3-4?? The Colts ran the 3-4 in the late 80s and it wasn't that good. It seems to be vogue because there are other teams having success with it. But I really think it has more to do with the talent than the scheme. I personally would rather stay with the 4-3 and just add in more change up with press and man to man instead of pure Cover 2. Our talent is in the area and we would have to get rid of some good, young players who don't fit a 3-4.

[WSO]

The colts defense has been good before, its not the scheme its simply the talent. The 2002 Bucs ran the Tampa 2 and that team absolutely dominated on the defensive side of the ball.

This defense was once ranked #1 overall and #3 in ppg allowed in the same season. Just need the right talent.

[Andy]

We would have to draft some 3-4 players in the draft this year, like maybe drafting a 3-4 DE or getting a monster 3-4 NT. It would involve a big change and teaching old dogs Freeney and Mathis new tricks, which wouldn't work well.

[21isSuperman]

The colts defense has been good before, its not the scheme its simply the talent. The 2002 Bucs ran the Tampa 2 and that team absolutely dominated on the defensive side of the ball.

This defense was once ranked #1 overall and #3 in ppg allowed in the same season. Just need the right talent.

I think it was the other way around. #3 overall and #1 in ppg...that was the last time we had a healthy Bob Sanders. A solid SS can really make this defense click

[The Peytonator]

I won't pretend to know much about defensive schematics, but I'll give it a whirl anyway.

Teams change their base defense all the time. Houston went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 over the offseason. New England did the opposite. I think a 4-3 works better if you have superior personnel, but a 3-4 works better if you have sub-par personnel and you want to thrive on confusion.

In the base defense, I'd look at it consisting of Nevis and Moala at DE, with hopefully a huge mass of a man like Paul Soliai at NT. None of our current DTs could play NT in a 3-4 so we'd have to find someone in the offseason. Wheeler would be awesome as a 3-4 OLB, and you could put Freeney or Mathis in as the other one although they may be a liability in pass coverage. The two MLBs would obviously be Angerer and Brackett.

I think it could work and I get tired of hearing people say 'OMG THIS AGAIN!!! WE DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS!!!! TAMPA TWO FOREVER!!!!!' I heard a quote from Belicheck earlier this year, it was something about how you want football players, not system players.

[SubZero]

We would have to draft some 3-4 players in the draft this year, like maybe drafting a 3-4 DE or getting a monster 3-4 NT. It would involve a big change and teaching old dogs Freeney and Mathis new tricks, which wouldn't work well.

No i agree, my purpose for this isnt becaus ei want them to switch i just want to show how we would have to do it. Im just informing the people who want to switch to a 3-4.

[Thewholefnshow28]

The biggest question is how effective will Mathis and Freeney going to be at OLB. If they cannot be as effective you do not even think about it.

We will have to definately draft at 3-4 DE and DT if we were going to switch.

We just need to be more aggressive and make some upgrades at DT, OLB, corner and safety and I think we will be fine.

[MichianaColts]

Even if we stay in the 4-3 we have got to get a DT.. I am sick of seeing the Middle open everytime! heck.. Look what MJD did today.. enough said.. DT is the key on defense were we need to start after Drafting Andrew Luck.. I do hope that Drake Nevis pans out and comes back 100% from his injury. The Highlights that I seen of him leading up to the draft was awesome but than again.. he still fits that darn mold we have of Fast undersized defensive players. Sick of that mold.. It's time to beef up or continue to be exposed for what we truly are... ALL Offense and NO DEFENSE!

[Andy]

Even if we stay in the 4-3 we have got to get a DT.. I am sick of seeing the Middle open everytime! heck.. Look what MJD did today.. enough said.. DT is the key on defense were we need to start after Drafting Andrew Luck.. I do hope that Drake Nevis pans out and comes back 100% from his injury. The Highlights that I seen of him leading up to the draft was awesome but than again.. he still fits that darn mold we have of Fast undersized defensive players. Sick of that mold.. It's time to beef up or continue to be exposed for what we truly are... ALL Offense and NO DEFENSE!

What's the point of drafting DTs when we never let the old ones have a chance at developping. We have a good stud in Nevis and Moala is getting better and better as the seasons go on. Don't spend a pick on a DT and let our guys develop. If they have a terrible year and are not developing, then draft a DT next year, but odds are, if we draft a DT, it won't be a great guy. Nevis is going to be great going forward. Let him develop. We have bigger needs in my opinion. We need a good CB in the 2nd round and we need a good guard in the 3rd.

[MichianaColts]

What's the point of drafting DTs when we never let the old ones have a chance at developping. We have a good stud in Nevis and Moala is getting better and better as the seasons go on. Don't spend a pick on a DT and let our guys develop. If they have a terrible year and are not developing, then draft a DT next year, but odds are, if we draft a DT, it won't be a great guy. Nevis is going to be great going forward. Let him develop. We have bigger needs in my opinion. We need a good CB in the 2nd round and we need a good guard in the 3rd.

If we would have kept Tommie Harris and not let him go before season started we would have our guy at DT and I would have never even mentioned this.. He Resurrected his career out there in San Diego. Our biggest guy is Antonio Johnson @ 6-3 310 and he just can't get the job done never has been able too.. My beliefs we have not had a TRUE DT since The Goose... but I agree maybe we should go CB with #2 cause no matter how he played in the Tenn. Game and the Houston Game I do not like Jacob Lacey. He needs to go.

[WSO]

I think it was the other way around. #3 overall and #1 in ppg...that was the last time we had a healthy Bob Sanders. A solid SS can really make this defense click

ah you're right thanks

[Blackhawk4]

We would have to draft some 3-4 players in the draft this year, like maybe drafting a 3-4 DE or getting a monster 3-4 NT. It would involve a big change and teaching old dogs Freeney and Mathis new tricks, which wouldn't work well.

3-4 DE I believe we already have in Anderson and Brayton in my opinion. It's NT and OLB I would see us struggling in. I could see Mathis easily transitioning to OLB, but not sure about Freeney. Antonio Johnson is the only DT that might have a shot at play NT, but it's sort of a stretch.

[Andy]

If we would have kept Tommie Harris and not let him go before season started we would have our guy at DT and I would have never even mentioned this.. He Resurrected his career out there in San Diego. Our biggest guy is Antonio Johnson @ 6-3 310 and he just can't get the job done never has been able too.. My beliefs we have not had a TRUE DT since The Goose... but I agree maybe we should go CB with #2 cause no matter how he played in the Tenn. Game and the Houston Game I do not like Jacob Lacey. He needs to go.

Lacey has been doing well lately. He's great in the nickel and he could provide very good depth. He's developing nicely. I'd like to keep him going forward.

[MichianaColts]

Lacey has been doing well lately. He's great in the nickel and he could provide very good depth. He's developing nicely. I'd like to keep him going forward.

Lately, what about the rest of the season? However has soon as I hit post I thought about that,but couldn't find the edit option to add that in my comment. When we had Hayden on the outside and Jackson on the outside and Lacey at the nickel our Pass D was decent/good but not Great. I would be for moving him back to Nickel. but if not than he has got to go....

[Bleedin Blue]

For the past three to four years now all you hear is about the great advantage a 3-4 defense as it relates to confusing quarterbacks and creating challenges for offensive lines. It seems pundits since 2007 have been spouting off about how teams should be moving to a 3-4...are bringing coaches in to convert teams to a 3-4 etc due to all of the success of both New England and Pittsburgh.

If you look at the most successful teams over the past 5-8 years however, only a handful have the personnel to run the 3-4 effectively. There are many reasons for this. For one, and perhaps the most important reason...it's costly. It takes a great front seven to pull off a 3-4 in the regular season and an elite front seven to win championships against high caliber offenses in the playoffs with this type of defense. It would require us to draft for almost all of them.

As mentioned, we need a big hulking presence in the middle...like Almeda Ta'amu, Dontari Poe, or Josh Chapman...all 2-3 rounders. We would also need to replace Mathis and Freeney. It has been mentioned that we could convert these guys to OLB's but this is a total change from what they do today. Frathis are both either 4 technique DE's lining up across from the tackles or 5 technique ends lining up on the outside edge of the tackles. They are also used to three-point stances with a hand on the ground and not standing up. The duties of an OLB also require them to drop back during zone coverages which I know was something that Coyer "toyed around with" using both Mathis and Freeney but to minimal effect. I don't see these guys making such a change very easily. So that means you need to draft for these guys. So that is three draft spots eaten up on the defensive line alone and we haven't even talked about the four linebacker spots. I don't think any of our linebackers can rush the passer or at least they have not really been tested to do this. These guys don't come cheap or in abundance either so drafting this type of player is difficult.

All that said, we still have a need at guard, wide receiver, and quarterback should Manning not be making progress come March. We also need a strong safety and much better corners...likely two or three with our injury rate.

Now even if we did make all this possible by ransoming Luck we would still need a DC and coordinators to run this effectively. These guys are not easy to find. Finally, just because you have put this system into place doesn't mean your defense will be any good. If you look at the top teams that went to the Superbowl in the last four years many of them don't run 3-4 defenses, especially in the last two years.

In summary, converting to a 3-4 would be very costly...would severely limit our ability to improve the offensive side of the ball, and would require great coaches to be brought in to make it happen.

[unitaswestand]

For the past three to four years now all you hear is about the great advantage a 3-4 defense as it relates to confusing quarterbacks and creating challenges for offensive lines. It seems pundits since 2007 have been spouting off about how teams should be moving to a 3-4...are bringing coaches in to convert teams to a 3-4 etc due to all of the success of both New England and Pittsburgh.

If you look at the most successful teams over the past 5-8 years however, only a handful have the personnel to run the 3-4 effectively. There are many reasons for this. For one, and perhaps the most important reason...it's costly. It takes a great front seven to pull off a 3-4 in the regular season and an elite front seven to win championships against high caliber offenses in the playoffs with this type of defense. It would require us to draft for almost all of them.

As mentioned, we need a big hulking presence in the middle...like Almeda Ta'amu, Dontari Poe, or Josh Chapman...all 2-3 rounders. We would also need to replace Mathis and Freeney. It has been mentioned that we could convert these guys to OLB's but this is a total change from what they do today. Frathis are both either 4 technique DE's lining up across from the tackles or 5 technique ends lining up on the outside edge of the tackles. They are also used to three-point stances with a hand on the ground and not standing up. The duties of an OLB also require them to drop back during zone coverages which I know was something that Coyer "toyed around with" using both Mathis and Freeney but to minimal effect. I don't see these guys making such a change very easily. So that means you need to draft for these guys. So that is three draft spots eaten up on the defensive line alone and we haven't even talked about the four linebacker spots. I don't think any of our linebackers can rush the passer or at least they have not really been tested to do this. These guys don't come cheap or in abundance either so drafting this type of player is difficult.

All that said, we still have a need at guard, wide receiver, and quarterback should Manning not be making progress come March. We also need a strong safety and much better corners...likely two or three with our injury rate.

Now even if we did make all this possible by ransoming Luck we would still need a DC and coordinators to run this effectively. These guys are not easy to find. Finally, just because you have put this system into place doesn't mean your defense will be any good. If you look at the top teams that went to the Superbowl in the last four years many of them don't run 3-4 defenses, especially in the last two years.

In summary, converting to a 3-4 would be very costly...would severely limit our ability to improve the offensive side of the ball, and would require great coaches to be brought in to make it happen.

And what is the point?? The Giants run a 4-3, put a lot of pressure, and confuse QBs. It is not the scheme, it is the players.

[GoColts8818]

I see alot of people suggesting a defense switch but alot are say maybe a 3-4 defense. As easy as it sounds, there are alot of factors that need to come into play.

First we need two ILBs. This one wouldnt be the biggest problem because we have 3 players fit to play these positions. Angerer, Brackett, and Conner could all play this position and could be good combinations.

Second we need 2 rush OLBs. This would be the easiest one to accomplish. We already have three undersized DEs in Freeney, Mathis, and Hughes. These guys have the tools and could play OLB and give us a crazy good pass rush. Also we have Wheeler who is in the mold of clay mathews and his speciality is to rush the passer.

Third we need 3-4 DEs. This position is tough because they need to supply a decent pass rush but also stop the run. Good players who can fit this is Brayton and Anderson. They can supply a good pass rush and they are big enough to stop the run.

Last we need a good NT. A NT IMO is the heart of a great 3-4 defense. They need to be able to take on double teams and stop the run. A great option would be to draft Alameda Ta'amu out of UW or to sign Paul Soliai or Sione Pua.

Other than the front three I think this doable. The problem is I don't think we have any of the players you need in a front three. Like you said Freeney and Mathis would move to linebacker and I think Angerer and Conner would play the middle. The secondary would be the secondary but the problem is I am not sure sure we the guys you need to play the front line and if we use our top draft pick on a QB it's going to be hard to get all three in one off-season

[Bleedin Blue]

And what is the point?? The Giants run a 4-3, put a lot of pressure, and confuse QBs. It is not the scheme, it is the players.

I think you need to reread my post. I'm NOT advocating moving to a 3-4. I actually think the 4-3 scheme is easier to draft for and implement. You are right about the players though, You can't win without the right players.

[Zachris]

Some of the better Defenses in the league right now are 3-4. I know we don't have the personal for it atm, but Houston just changed to it and look what it did for them.

[JoKeR]

The colts defense has been good before, its not the scheme its simply the talent. The 2002 Bucs ran the Tampa 2 and that team absolutely dominated on the defensive side of the ball.

This defense was once ranked #1 overall and #3 in ppg allowed in the same season. Just need the right talent.

This^

[Bleedin Blue]

You also have to consider that many teams have converted to a 3-4 defense so there is a lot of competition to draft players that fit this defensive scheme. Your draft board is going to get ripped apart by the Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Cardinals, Cowboys, Jets, Chargers, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bills, Texans, 49ers, etc. Now what you can do is avoid all this mess and target guys that fit a 4-3 and you will get the best players for this scheme.

[bWild]

The 3-4, just like any base defense, is a fad. It used to be the 4-6, then everybody ran a 4-3, and now the 3-4. Nowadays a lot of defenses are running a 5-2, which in essence is a 3-4. Defenses are going to change from year to year based on what offenses are doing, and they'll find new ways to try to be deceptive (which is why teams are running a 3-4, 5-2, or doing that wandering Nickel package).

Switching schemes to one that doesn't fit our personnel is ludicrous. This isn't Madden, it's real life, and in real life you make realistic decisions.