Bruschi: ‘Gronkowski is the best tight end I’ve ever seen’

[The Old Crow]

Not a fan of Bruschi, but he's right. Those old guys can't compare to Gronk.

[amfootball]

Gronk is a good TE, I concede that, but you know Teddy boy gets a special light in his eye when he can hype up a Patriot. I wish Ray Lewis would do that with the Ravens, but all we hear is about the leadership void without him ! You also have to admit that ESPN has a big time New York and Boston bias.

[JerodMayo51]

Personally, I do no think Tedy is a very good analyst. It is not because of his bias as he often picks against the Pats like he did last Sunday but because his insights are defensive oriented and he really just does not get offense. He is also very critical of the Pats players if he perceives they are not buying into the Patriot Way. He annoys me. So does Rodney. He is just so full himself you want to barf every time he speaks. Part of me wants the Pats to win another Super Bowl to make them shut up about the championship years. They are like broken records.

 

 

Glad im not the only one who notices that..  They have this great pride about them that it was all them and the defense that were responsible for the Super Bowls and you can see it every time either one of them opens their mouth.. its almost as if they dont want the Pats to win another SB just so they can be like "See how magnificent we were!?"

[The Old Crow]

i think Ray is in the same category as Tedy.

[ViriLudant]

If Bruschi would have said that he was the most dominating TE this year, he may have been right, but the best he's ever seen ! You think as an announcer , he would have at least seen films and knew the history of some of the all time greats. Naturally, as a Patriot sycophant , he is better suited for NESN than ESPN , however it's almost the same thing as with both entities , you get more Boston or New York , than most of the other NFL cities.

You have yet to explain how any of your examples were better than Gronk.

[Yehoodi]

If Bruschi would have said that he was the most dominating TE this year, he may have been right, but the best he's ever seen ! You think as an announcer , he would have at least seen films and knew the history of some of the all time greats. Naturally, as a Patriot sycophant , he is better suited for NESN than ESPN , however it's almost the same thing as with both entities , you get more Boston or New York , than most of the other NFL cities.

[The Old Crow]

You have yet to explain how any of your examples were better than Gronk.

1. HOF

2. # 1 TE of all time by NFL Network

3. Super Bowl 5 Champion

Do you need more ?

[The Old Crow]

You have yet to explain how any of your examples were better than Gronk.

Some more :

NFL 50th Anniversary All Time Team

1960's All Decade Team

2-time NFL Champion 1968, 1970

How many Super Bowls does Gronk have ? Don't you guys use that criteria in the Brady- Manning arguments ?

[Yehoodi]

Some more :

NFL 50th Anniversary All Time Team

1960's All Decade Team

2-time NFL Champion 1968, 1970

How many Super Bowls does Gronk have ? Don't you guys use that criteria in the Brady- Manning arguments ?

 

Didn't Mackey play in SB3 . . .  

[The Old Crow]

Generally when people say that someone is the best one has even seen it refers to personal observation . . . given Bruschi's age that is likely mid 80s to the present . . . if he is talking about his playing days, then of coarse it is much shorter than that time period . . .

As for the injuries, at least two of them were the result of the fact that opponents can not tackle him and have to resort to actions that result in injuries . . . with the most evident one being Ward's contact . . .

Not sure how many players came at Mackey and Ditka at full speed and placed their shoulder pads directly on their knees . . . also although muscles have gotten strong on players throughout the year, ligaments have not proportional kept up in strength so players nowadays are more risk to ligament injuries and bulk, speed, muscles have gotten strong therefore imposing a greater deal of force on the ligament then in years past . . .

I can tell you one thing, it was a tougher NFL back then. I shook Johnny Unitas's hand not long before he passed away, and he hardly had any bone mass, and was arthritic. Poor John Mackey took so many hits, he was punch drunk at the end. Art Donovan had some great stories about the early NFL. Those old Baltimore Colt players were tough, and to me, some of the greatest heroes of all time, along with our great American military heroes.

[Yehoodi]

Some more :

NFL 50th Anniversary All Time Team

1960's All Decade Team

2-time NFL Champion 1968, 1970

How many Super Bowls does Gronk have ? Don't you guys use that criteria in the Brady- Manning arguments ?

 

looks like Ditka beat out Mackey for the 75th Anniversary Team . . .   (two hand waves in the same night  ) . . .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_75th_Anniversary_All-Time_Team

[Yehoodi]

I can tell you one thing, it was a tougher NFL back then. I shook Johnny Unitas's hand not long before he passed away, and he hardly had any bone mass, and was arthritic. Poor John Mackey took so many hits, he was punch drunk at the end. Art Donovan had some great stories about the early NFL. Those old Baltimore Colt players were tough, and to me, some of the greatest heroes of all time, along with our great American military heroes.

 

tough and injury risk are not necessarily parallel . . . the extra damage done during the "tough" era has more to do with wear and tear type stuff . . . some of that has dissipated to a degree . . . however on the other hand you have guys coming at each other faster and with more muscle mass . . .  so the risk of the injuries Gronk has suffered is greater now than in the past . . . which was kind of where I was driving at . . .  

[The Old Crow]

looks like Ditka beat out Mackey for the 75th Anniversary Team . . . (two hand waves in the same night ) . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_75th_Anniversary_All-Time_Team

Like I said 1A and 1B. The difference is Ditka is still alive and well known from coaching and announcing, while Mackey has passed away and many have forgotten him. So by the 75th Anniversary, most remember Ditka better, but that doesn't mean he was better. On top of that, and no disrespect to Marvin Harrison who was a great player , but Irsay gave out Mackey's number, which was a complete disgrace. Of course, the Ravens were stupid and let Scott Mitchell wear #19 for a year in Baltimore. An even bigger disgrace !

[Yehoodi]

Some more :

NFL 50th Anniversary All Time Team

1960's All Decade Team

2-time NFL Champion 1968, 1970

How many Super Bowls does Gronk have ? Don't you guys use that criteria in the Brady- Manning arguments ?

 

btw I know the '68 championship goes in the books as a title, many forgot about '66-'69 NFL Championships . .. was just razing yah about SB3 though against the Jets . . .

[ViriLudant]

I can tell you one thing, it was a tougher NFL back then. I shook Johnny Unitas's hand not long before he passed away, and he hardly had any bone mass, and was arthritic. Poor John Mackey took so many hits, he was punch drunk at the end. Art Donovan had some great stories about the early NFL. Those old Baltimore Colt players were tough, and to me, some of the greatest heroes of all time, along with our great American military heroes.

Did you honestly just equate football players with soldiers?

Really ?

[The Old Crow]

Did you honestly just equate football players with soldiers?

Really ?

No, I didn't mean it that way. These guys were my heroes growing up, along with guys like Patton, etc. No comparison , and I was also a military guy.

[grmasterb]

Without reading through all of the other posts, the only argument I have right now is that Gronk lacks a body of work to be called the greatest. He may be the most physically imposing TE of all time. He's also a meathead, IMO, and it remains to be seen whether Gronk can stay healthy enough to build a body of work worthy of being called the greatest.

[The Old Crow]

btw I know the '68 championship goes in the books as a title, many forgot about '66-'69 NFL Championships . .. was just razing yah about SB3 though against the Jets . . .

You are right about that one. The 1968 NFL Championship goes down as a NFL title, but we did lose Super Bowl 3. That 13-1 Baltimore Colts team in 1968 , was very similar to the 16-0 Patriots team. Both those teams were totally superior to the two New York teams they played , but for some reason, both lost. I think if both those teams played the Jets or Giants, they would have beaten them 9 out of 10 times. However, on that one day, luck and circumstance rolled the New York team's way. By the way , the 1967 Baltimore Colts went 11-1-2, and didn't even make the playoffs. Those teams are right up there with the 15-1 1998 Vikings , who lost to Atlanta.

[Yehoodi]

Like I said 1A and 1B. The difference is Ditka is still alive and well known from coaching and announcing, while Mackey has passed away and many have forgotten him. So by the 75th Anniversary, most remember Ditka better, but that doesn't mean he was better. On top of that, and no disrespect to Marvin Harrison who was a great player , but Irsay gave out Mackey's number, which was a complete disgrace. Of course, the Ravens were stupid and let Scott Mitchell wear #19 for a year in Baltimore. An even bigger disgrace !

 

yah I hear yah . . . perhaps they wanted to balance it out . . . just a minor point the 75th was voted in 1994 . . . I think they both were great and yes are 1A and 1B . . . and surely because he had a contemporary do not necessary diminish his accomplishment, meaning so might say "how good can he be if another was just as good as him at the time". . . Mackey will live on with the award in is honor . . .  so his legacy will continue . . .

 

but not getting the award in his name and perhaps due to his popularity as a coach and analysis Ditka's playing career gets push to the back burner . . . I am sure if you ask 10 people who did Ditka play for and his position many would not really know about his playing career . . .

 

Too bad the colts did not retire Mackey's number 

[The Old Crow]

tough and injury risk are not necessarily parallel . . . the extra damage done during the "tough" era has more to do with wear and tear type stuff . . . some of that has dissipated to a degree . . . however on the other hand you have guys coming at each other faster and with more muscle mass . . . so the risk of the injuries Gronk has suffered is greater now than in the past . . . which was kind of where I was driving at . . .

You have some good points here , but tight ends and receivers were roughed up brutally in the old days. The guys are a bit bigger and stronger today, but Mackey was 6ft 2 inches and about 225 lbs. His size and speed really revolutionized that position much as Cal Ripken did for tall shortstops.

[The Old Crow]

yah I hear yah . . . perhaps they wanted to balance it out . . . just a minor point the 75th was voted in 1994 . . . I think they both were great and yes are 1A and 1B . . . and surely because he had a contemporary do not necessary diminish his accomplishment, meaning so might say "how good can he be if another was just as good as him at the time". . . Mackey will live on with the award in is honor . . . so his legacy will continue . . .

but not getting the award in his name and perhaps due to his popularity as a coach and analysis Ditka's playing career gets push to the back burner . . . I am sure if you ask 10 people who did Ditka play for and his position many would not really know about his playing career . . .

Too bad the colts did not retire Mackey's number

[Yehoodi]

You are right about that one. The 1968 NFL Championship goes down as a NFL title, but we did lose Super Bowl 3. That 13-1 Baltimore Colts team in 1968 , was very similar to the 16-0 Patriots team. Both those teams were totally superior to the two New York teams they played , but for some reason, both lost. I think if both those teams played the Jets or Giants, they would have beaten them 9 out of 10 times. However, on that one day, luck and circumstance rolled the New York team's way. By the way , the 1967 Baltimore Colts went 11-1-2, and didn't even make the playoffs. Those teams are right up there with the 15-1 1998 Vikings , who lost to Atlanta.

 

I stated quoting and hit a button on my keyboard and lost the post . . .that is why I sometimes draft in Word . . .

 

Any hoot too back the NFL does not do anything about making those four championships more well known . . . and it does not help that folks and media talk about SBs as they only championship in NFL history . . .

 

yah . . . many talked about the '68 colts as the best ever . . . one on level one could still make that argument . . .

 

and yes too back about the '67 colts . . . had the NFL just put the colts in the Central Division (which still lives today) with the Packers they would of play the Rams . . . the Packers were only 9-4-1 that year and alas LA had the tiebreaker against the Colts and were the ones to win their division. . .

 

I know many look at the Vikings as lovable loser, but that '69 team was great, again among the best ever  . . . still gotta love Joe Kapp . . . if you ever get a chance the Missing Rings show (America's Game and some great teams that lost) has a great program on the '69 Vikings, lost of fun . . . Bud Grant, Joe Kapp, the old Metropolitan Stadium, Jim Marshall, shots of the cold weather . . .yah great show . . .

 

speaking of the good ole days we got a classic black and blue AFL game between the Chiefs and the Raiders going on right now, classic teams, rain, natural grass . . . that rivalry goes back a long time

[Yehoodi]

Just so you know, I think Mike Ditka is great. He is an old school, Halas guy, and one of the greatest of all time. It's like saying who is better , Brooks Robinson or Mike Schmidt. It's that close and you can't go wrong either way. If Gronk has another 5-7 years like he's done already, of course, he will be in play as GOAT. I have nothing against him, he's a dang good player , all kidding aside . I think Mackey got dissed because he was a major player in the early days of the NFLPU. He was kind of the Curt Flood of football.

 

yah and the TE position was not use as much as today's TEs . . . offenses have will use their star TEs more and will garner more sacks . . .hopefully Gronk can stay health and have a solid QB throwing to him for most of his career . . . as will all positions on the offense the numbers today are going to be bigger due to the rules . . . 

[Yehoodi]

You have some good points here , but tight ends and receivers were roughed up brutally in the old days. The guys are a bit bigger and stronger today, but Mackey was 6ft 2 inches and about 225 lbs. His size and speed really revolutionized that position much as Cal Ripken did for tall shortstops.

 

yes they were . . . Mackey was a big player and could of easily played in today NFL . . .

[The Old Crow]

I stated quoting and hit a button on my keyboard and lost the post . . .that is why I sometimes draft in Word . . .

Any hoot too back the NFL does not do anything about making those four championships more well known . . . and it does not help that folks and media talk about SBs as they only championship in NFL history . . .

yah . . . many talked about the '68 colts as the best ever . . . one on level one could still make that argument . . .

and yes too back about the '67 colts . . . had the NFL just put the colts in the Central Division (which still lives today) with the Packers they would of play the Rams . . . the Packers were only 9-4-1 that year and alas LA had the tiebreaker against the Colts and were the ones to win their division. . .

I know many look at the Vikings as lovable loser, but that '69 team was great, again among the best ever . . . still gotta love Joe Kapp . . . if you ever get a chance the Missing Rings show (America's Game and some great teams that lost) has a great program on the '69 Vikings, lost of fun . . . Bud Grant, Joe Kapp, the old Metropolitan Stadium, Jim Marshall, shots of the cold weather . . .yah great show . . .

speaking of the good ole days we got a classic black and blue AFL game between the Chiefs and the Raiders going on right now, classic teams, rain, natural grass . . . that rivalry goes back a long time

You are right. I think our Steeler friends want everyone to forget about the old NFL or AFL Championship eras, because they stunk back then. That 1967 Colts team was unbelievable. The 69 Vikings team was a favorite of mine, even as a Baltimore Colts fan at the time .

The lost ring program was great. The 2007 Patriots, 98 Vikings, 69 Vikings, and 67 and 68 Colts were prime examples. Another sad one was the 1969 Baltimore Orioles who lost to the Mets. That was the greatest Orioles team of all time. Those losses with those kinds of teams just haunt you. I'm sure Indy understands with the 2009 Colts. They were better than the Saints.

[The Old Crow]

yah and the TE position was not use as much as today's TEs . . . offenses have will use their star TEs more and will garner more sacks . . .hopefully Gronk can stay health and have a solid QB throwing to him for most of his career . . . as will all positions on the offense the numbers today are going to be bigger due to the rules . . .

It is a hard thing comparing eras because of all the rules changes. But as it has been a slow week in Baltimore with the bye, these GOAT arguments gets the blood flowing in an otherwise boring week.

[BOTT]

Without reading through all of the other posts, the only argument I have right now is that Gronk lacks a body of work to be called the greatest. He may be the most physically imposing TE of all time. He's also a meathead, IMO, and it remains to be seen whether Gronk can stay healthy enough to build a body of work worthy of being called the greatest.

[JimJaime]

Homer!

Personally rather have Graham over him .... and in the past Gates and Gonzalez much better! Sure if i wanted to sit down and think about it I could come up with several more too!

Graham is an amazing Receiving TE but can't block, Gronk is amazing at both.

Gonzalez was amazing but I think Gronk a better receiver and blocker.

Gates was / is an amazing receiving threat. Not sure on his blocking.

What you also fail realize is ALL of those players had other weapons that D had to really worry about. Gronk is the #1 person EVERY team wants to stop and none have when he is fully healthy. (He man handled the colts when blocking and still had4 catches for 75 yds and an amazing TD)

[Superman]

Somewhat related, not trying to derail the topic, but Gronk was fined for his block on Sergio Brown. $8,268

[amfootball]

Somewhat related, not trying to derail the topic, but Gronk was fined for his block on Sergio Brown. $8,268

[The Old Crow]

In the words of Peyton Manning, "money well spent." ;)

[Superman]

In the words of Peyton Manning, "money well spent." ;)

 

I disagree, but we already had that discussion.

[amfootball]

I disagree, but we already had that discussion.

[LordHelpOurColts]

Not only is Tony Gonzalez the best TE of all-time, he's one of the greatest receivers of all-time period.

[King Colt]

, you think Gronk is a pampered receiver? You must not have seen him play then... he trucks even pro bowl linebackers... go watch the YouTube video of him sending Terrell Suggs into orbit with a shove off the line, before he ran his route.

The guy is a monster.. he doesn't get pushed around, he pushes people around.

To suggest that athletes 50 years ago were better, stronger or tougher than Gronk is laughable.

Athletes are bigger, stronger and faster these days.. and that is 100% fact.

Try to learn to read-the RULES have changed have they not? Head slap a QB - grab a receiver 20 yards in to his route and see what happens in todays sissy ball versus "I'll bite your finger off ball"

[King Colt]

Ditka also played on both sides of the ball in case you Walter Gronkites did not know that.

[BOTT]

Try to learn to read-the RULES have changed have they not? Head slap a QB - grab a receiver 20 yards in to his route and see what happens in todays sissy ball versus "I'll bite your finger off ball"[/quote

Sissy ball? I would love to see those smaller, slower, weaker players who sold insurance in the off season play in today's league.

[BOTT]

Sure, I know. I would too if I was a Colts fan. I get it.

[-JJ-]

Sissy ball? I would love to see those smaller, slower, weaker players who sold insurance in the off season play in today's league.

/quote

Or put todays players in yester years personal equipment.

think about that for a minute

[BOTT]

Sissy ball? I would love to see those smaller, slower, weaker players who sold insurance in the off season play in today's league.